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Okay I am too lazy to think up a really good hey look title right now, so I'll just get right to it. Okay so I really got the idea from watching tonight's episode of Grey's Anatomy where in the end this Serial Killer was put to death by lethal injection. Which is AFTER they saved him from a brain hemorage which is kinda stupid IMHO but anyways it got me thinking why not just make everyone else think and re-hash an old subject with new members present? Good times to be had by all eh?

Okays Death Penalty, should it be allowed? Is it really our right as humans to decide who lives and who dies? What does everyone think on this subject right now?

Deep thoughts aside right now in New York state we have no death penalty just life imprisionment without parole. Which I guess isn't too bad until you consider that the state is in one of its worst deficites ever. And we have people in State prisons who have willfully murdered showing no remorse. And I'm not talking about killing an adult, I'm talking about murdring babies.

But that said I'm torn. Do we really get to play God? What gives us that right? And what ever happened to good old public humiliation and maybe some nice branding?

Okay well now it's getting late and I have to go to work in the morning which means I wake up at 5:30 to get to work at 7. I hope to get some good thoughts. And I hope not to get lost ciao.

Aw, now you've gone and got ME torn!

Y'know, I think that there are some criminals that commit awful crimes and don't seem to care that should be setenced to death. But as you said, who are we as people to decide who is worthy of death?

I'm not sure if there's a definite answer to this question, CHW...

I think my entire thoughts can be summed up by when I posted here.

It needs to exist. I just don't think it needs to be used every time.

The death penalty is murder. Revenge is not justice. If we use the death penalty or even vote for it, we are as bad as the criminals.

Edit: we are as bad as the criminals anyway. By killing and pretending it's for a just cause, we are not only setting a bad example for future generations, we are also defeating our own purpose.

Well death is just unavoidable sometimes. Why should somebody who rapes and murders young women and children (just an example) be allowed to spend the rest of his life not ever having to worry about the struggles of life. The person sentenced to life in prison knows that he'll get 3 square meals a day, get plenty of outdoor time to do with what he pleases. He/she will get to watch televison, an hour of computer time a day,

It just doesn't seem fair to me that children that lose their parents to cold blooded murder have to struggle and suffer while their parents killer gets to lounge around.

I'm all for the death penalty, as far as the argument goes about us as humans deciding who dies and who doesn't. For one, they felt they could do that and deserve it in return, and for two they show no regard for human life they deserve that in return as well.

Originally Posted by Drizzt Do'urden

Well death is just unavoidable sometimes. Why should somebody who rapes and murders young women and children (just an example) be allowed to spend the rest of his life not ever having to worry about the struggles of life. The person sentenced to life in prison knows that he'll get 3 square meals a day, get plenty of outdoor time to do with what he pleases. He/she will get to watch televison, an hour of computer time a day,

It just doesn't seem fair to me that children that lose their parents to cold blooded murder have to struggle and suffer while their parents killer gets to lounge around.

I'm all for the death penalty, as far as the argument goes about us as humans deciding who dies and who doesn't. For one, they felt they could do that and deserve it in return, and for two they show no regard for human life they deserve that in return as well.

Humans are capable of error, even the "good" ones. What if someone was given the death penalty without being guilty. OR what if someone repented, but was still given the death penalty. It's much safer and more sensible just to let God do His job and keep our filthy hands out of it.

Also, have you ever been in prison? It's one of the worst places to be, where rapists and murderers will more likely than not get what's coming to them.

The most important thing is to keep people safe from offenders, which might mean spending tax dollars to keep them locked up or to treat them. But then again, our society made them the way they are anyway, so I guess what goes around comes around.

Originally Posted by Octopus Royalty

It's much safer and more sensible just to let God do His job and keep our filthy hands out of it.

How about for those of us who don't believe in such a being? Saying it's up to someone who's very existence is in question is a cop out. Also blaming society for making people that way is a cop out on individual responsibility and the consequences of one's actions.

Anyway, my opinion on this is the same as Allamorph's so I'll leave it at that.

I personally LOVE Texas' take on the death penalty. (and no, that's not sarcasm)

I believe it's something along the lines of: If you commit a murder, are convicted of it, and there was at least two witnesses, (it may even be one) it's the death penalty. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it. (I'm not even sure if you're allowed an appeal process) Basically it's a fast track to lethal injection. Last guy I heard who got the death penalty, was killed a few months after he was convicted.

I like the death penalty in most cases. And eye for an eye, y'know? Who are we to decide who lives and dies? The real question is who are they to decide? Revenge is justice, but of course, that's just my opinion. Plus, the death penalty is necessary for a number of other economic reasons....

Why can't we go back to the old days where if you steal, we cut off your hands? They say it has something to do with cruel and unusual punishment, but killing for killing is the same thing and it still goes on. (Although I know there have been some prisoners on death row who've sued because it's cruel and unusual punishment)

They deserve it. That's all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Darren

I personally LOVE Texas' take on the death penalty. (and no, that's not sarcasm)

I believe it's something along the lines of: If you commit a murder, are convicted of it, and there was at least two witnesses, (it may even be one) it's the death penalty. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it. (I'm not even sure if you're allowed an appeal process) Basically it's a fast track to lethal injection. Last guy I heard who got the death penalty, was killed a few months after he was convicted.

I like the death penalty in most cases. And eye for an eye, y'know? Who are we to decide who lives and dies? The real question is who are they to decide? Revenge is justice, but of course, that's just my opinion. Plus, the death penalty is necessary for a number of other economic reasons....

Why can't we go back to the old days where if you steal, we cut off your hands? They say it has something to do with cruel and unusual punishment, but killing for killing is the same thing and it still goes on. (Although I know there have been some prisoners on death row who've sued because it's cruel and unusual punishment)

They deserve it. That's all I'm saying.

But the problem with the witnesses is what if these are false witnesses and they have it out for the guy.... You never know. Although I'm sure even in Texas they look things over. BUt still there are cases where innocent people are put on death row.

I'm pretty sure that even in TExas you're allowed a few appeals. And everyone does that. And it ties up the courts. Plus there's more torment for the victim's family.

In some instances like serial killers (see reasoning for this thread) and that jackass who killed his son because he had to pay child support (kinda makes me nervous to let my daughter go off with my ex because he hates having to part with 475$ a month) do deserve to die and this guy is obviously guilty. Also I believe Louisiana has the death penalty (ah, the South. Gotta love it) which makes me wonder why on earth the guy did it in the first place if he knew that killing his own child would mean he'd be killed as well. (Too bad they don't do the firing squad anymore eh?) You would think that the death penalty would be a deterant but I guess it isn't all the time. Maybe they should cut cable and stuff in the prisons. And institute some tortures, like watching Barney and friends and the old Barbie cartoons instead? It gets insurgents to crack.

In other situations though I wonder if maybe the death penalty could be too hasty. I don't know if New York has reinstated it or not. But anyways there's this case from about a year ago where this woman was beat to death when she went to confront the woman who had attacked her daughter earlier in the day. (This happened two blocks from where my ex's mom lives) And it took a while to find anyone who may have done the crime because of this whole no Snitching policy some people have. Well a few months ago the RPD believes that they found two people responsible. However their families are insisting that the one guy has witnesses saying he was out of town. Yes, I do know that of course the families will insist that the people are innocent. But for all you know they could be. That's why I'm torn.

As for the whole let God decide. I'm not touching that one yet. I believe in God, but I'm not about to force my beliefs on everyone. It's not my place. Besides, it's obvious that the killers took it upon themselves to be God. Doesn't it seem fitting that we should do the same?

Originally Posted by Octopus Royalty

Humans are capable of error, even the "good" ones.
Also, have you ever been in prison? It's one of the worst places to be, where rapists and murderers will more likely than not get what's coming to them.

The most important thing is to keep people safe from offenders, which might mean spending tax dollars to keep them locked up or to treat them. But then again, our society made them the way they are anyway, so I guess what goes around comes around.

Okay where to begin, we'll start with the first point you made. IF a human chooses to cold bloodedly murder somebody, then by definition they are not one of the "good" ones. If somebody kills another in a mutual fight, or something of the matter. Defending themselves, or another then they may be a "good" person, and will most likely not be convicted of anything. Depending on the circumstances they may receive a few years in prison but they won't be considered for the death penalty.

By the by, I used to work in corrections so I do know what goes on in the inside of a prison. They're no longer like the Shaw Shank Redemption in which the prison's are a breeding ground for more murderers. Does it happen? Well of course it does, but not very often.

That brings me to your third point, which basically says to me that we should spend OUR tax dollars to keep the prisoners in solitary confinment for the rest of their lives? And I'm sorry, no matter how much society sucks, society didn't make them murderers. Their own decisions did, and don't give me this crap about unemployment and the economy. Peoples own decisions dictate what they do with some parental influence.

So killing somebody who without a doubt killed somebody else? Yes, and note I put without a doubt, if there is any for one they shouldn't have been convicted by a jury, and two if their is any doubt they should be sentenced to life in prison so they have a chance to appeal. Okay now on to the most ridiculous part, you mentioned what if somebody repents in prison. Well I purposly neglected to save that part of the quote due to the ridiculousness of it. IF said person repents then, 1 there was something to repent in the first place, and 2 they will go to heaven anyways so we will be doing them a favor. Eternal paradise and the like.....

Drizzt: 2, Octopus Royalty: 0

Sorry, but I have to agree with Drizzt on this one. He made some pretty good points. Well, actually, he made more than some good points. And Octopus Royalty, you sort of...didn't.

And as for the whole repenting thing...I don't care HOW much they regret what they've done, or HOW many times they've prayed. They could put a crucifix in their cell, for all I care! A criminal is a criminal who still deserves punishment. And I'm agreeing with Darren on the love of the Texas death penalty.

Originally Posted by Drizzt Do'urden

That brings me to your third point, which basically says to me that we should spend OUR tax dollars to keep the prisoners in solitary confinment for the rest of their lives?

Fun fact of the day:

It costs taxpayers more money to give someone the death penalty than it does to imprison them for life.

The death penalty is an attempt to balance the moral books. It has been said that when one person kills another, they too must die to "pay for it" or to "make it equal." I personally find this point of view disturbingly bloodthirsty. Generally speaking, executing a murderer does not make the victimized party feel any better.

Furthermore, many states have the death penalty on the books but haven't executed a prisoner for decades. What this does is unnecessarily torment the victimized party by giving them a false hope the offender will be executed. The appeals process does indeed tear families apart emotionally, make no mistake about it. It's an unnecessary emotional roller-coaster to ride when the defendant is almost certainly going to live.

Killing anyone is wrong, no matter how you try to justify it. I am vehemently against the death penalty.

Originally Posted by Nerdsy

Killing anyone is wrong, no matter how you try to justify it. I am vehemently against the death penalty.

Can you write a few thousand more words to explain your point of view? I fail to see how your opinion is a valid one unless it's forty-pages long.

Um, I'm in support of the death penalty for especially heinous crimes. It's a difficult decision to make, but there are those who are beyond any redemption or help. Any opposition I have towards the death penalty is really towards the complicated judicial system which convicts a man to death, only to allow him to spend the next 20 years making appeals.

-Shy

Originally Posted by Retribution

Fun fact of the day:

It costs taxpayers more money to give someone the death penalty than it does to imprison them for life.

That's true. I'd have to look up why though. But I think part of it is because of all the appeals that a death row inmate is allowed to have.