The Complaint

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[COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]Lets see. First off I've never come to Suggestion & Feedback before because the OB never needed it but in these past months I'm seeing a decrease in a desire to frequent these boards for a few reasons..

1. It seems that we get new members by the bundle every day and that?s fine, but when most just won't clean up their post quality and make an active effort to abide by the TOS it tends to make the boards look trashy. I remember a time when the OB was a, 'shape up or ship out' kind of message board. What happened?

2. Our moderator staff. This is a big one in a few ways such as the Arena Underground mod Bio. He hasn't posted anything since February and he was last active at the beginning of this month. Is that not dereliction of duty? More so than inactivity is the age range of our mod staff, and lack of experience. Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!), have less than 500 posts and haven?t even been here a year. Another mod that has caught my interest is Ozymandius Jones, who seems a bit lazy for her own good. Why does it take 150+ posts to figure out a thread is sorely lacking in quality and must be shut down? How about a certain Pokemon RPG that is still up after Ozy warned them to clean up the post quality? Hello? Thread lock yet?

Then there is Charles who seems to disregard and blatantly flame other members and bounces around and mods where he feels like it and the porn avatar? I?m not sure about you guys but isn?t a moderator supposed to be a sort of role model for other members as well as the police of the message boards? The signal that Charles?s avatar sends me is; ?Hey! I don?t give a crap about policy, and you shouldn?t either!?

Don?t get me wrong, there are plenty of moderators who do their job such as Bombu, Revelation, and Retribution among others. I guess what I?m getting at is that the situation in the Role-Playing forum needs to be addressed, and the younger mods like Aaryana, Amelia, and while not young but still newer to the boards indifference also need to be replaced by members who have been here longer and are as competent and more deserving.

I guess those are my main issues with the boards as is. If these issued were addressed then the OB would reform greatly and we?d all see the OB re-emerge that we loved back 2 - 3 years ago. Take this as you will but its just me exercising my freedom of speech.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
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[color=navy][size=1]

[b]Note:[/b] I have been a member since 2003 and v6 under a seperate account.

I feel that this is the truth. No hate for any of the mods, but the staff for me has been a bit slack as of recent. I don't hold anything against the mods, but the facts are, there are members who are far more qualified and seasoned from the OBs who would be willing to accept a moderation position.

The lack of participation by Bio and Ozy in the Arena all together has me a bit concernced, as is the choosing of Mods who are basically new members from the past year and a half. I can name a dozen members off the bat whom I'm sure would do just a good a job, if not better, than some of the staff. I'm not saying that the staff in general is bad, nor do I hold a grudge against any of them. It's simply I find it unfair that some members were passed up for those important positions regardless of their experience and dedication to the Boards.

I seriously feel that Lady Katana and Revelation are great mods and should actually be given more responsibility, based on their dedication and involvment on the OBs as a whole. I feel that the selection of mods should be based on these factors. Proven dedication and involvment, and the choosing of mods as of recent doesn't reflect that at all.

Some Mods are great, competent and I think they're doing a bang up job. However, else where, I see neglect and a serious lack of involvment. There are several situations where I've seen a need for action to be taken only for it not to come at all. I see some Mods are younger than me, have less posts than me, and have been involved with the OBs for less time than me. Then I turn to see the other members and friends of mine who are leagues above me in these categories and wonder "Why not them?". Certainly they are more qualified, but I fear that it is a case of personal taste in selection rather than a business oriented deal. Again, I bare no grudge against the staff members. I just want to support the other members who are long time patrons to the OBs and yet get denied something I believe they deserve.

I hope these statements are not taken wrong from either me or AC!D!C, whom I thank for having the nerve to make this thread. I want the current Staff to understand I have nothing against them, I simply support the long time members whom I have grown to know and trust. I just feel that some of our voices need to be heard.

[b]P.S.[/b] - Oh, and yes. Charles' banner doesn't really reflect taste, nor do I think it's appropriate for the younger members of the OBs to have to see. Hell, it almost got me in trouble at one point when my Dad looked over to me on the computer and thought I was looking up porn. Heh. Not a huge deal, but it is bothersome.[/color][/size]

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I shall comment on the thing about the younger mods. James obviously hired them for good reason. They may have been on the boards for a short time, but that doesn't mean anything. They didn't come with bad quality. They arrived as if they have been members for as many years as some of us. And if they post just fine at the age of thirteen, what's it matter how old they are? As long as they do their job, it shouldn't matter about anything. I can understand about Bio and stuff, but still, a mod's job is harder than we make it out to be. James once told me he works them like dogs that we don't even see. I think we can give them a bit more credit than that.

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[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1']1. It seems that we get new members by the bundle every day and that?s fine, but when most just won't clean up their post quality and make an active effort to abide by the TOS it tends to make the boards look trashy. I remember a time when the OB was a, 'shape up or ship out' kind of message board. What happened?[/quote][/color][/size]

[color=crimson]From my point of view, it's impossible for the admins to please everyone on this issue. You're either being too lenient on newbies or you are driving them off with draconian rules and warnings- the admins just can't win.

Currently? I think fresh blood is always a good thing and they do shape up quickly enough. Even without moderators intervening, the member base ostracizes/mocks people with bad grammar enough that they eventually 'ship out' just from being mercilessly tormented by us, lol.[/color]

[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1'] More so than inactivity is the age range of our mod staff, and lack of experience. Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!)[/quote][/color][/size]

[color=crimson]Their physical age seems irrelevant since they have proven themselves to be intelligent, mature and able to handle themselves well. Myself? Well, when I was a moderator I was only fourteen or fifteen.. so there you go.[/color]

[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1'] Another mod that has caught my interest is Ozymandius Jones, who seems a bit lazy for her own good. Why does it take 150+ posts to figure out a thread is sorely lacking in quality and must be shut down? How about a certain Pokemon RPG that is still up after Ozy warned them to clean up the post quality? Hello? Thread lock yet? [/quote][/color][/size]

[color=crimson]To me it's slightly different- she has too much territory to patrol. She needs some active help to keep things up to par. In no way is she "lazy".[/color]

[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1']Then there is Charles who seems to disregard and blatantly flame other members and bounces around and mods where he feels like it and the porn avatar? [/quote][/color][/size]

[color=crimson]*blink* You cannot be serious.[/color]

[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1'] I?m not sure about you guys but isn?t a moderator supposed to be a sort of role model for other members as well as the police of the message boards? The signal that Charles?s avatar sends me is; ?Hey! I don?t give a crap about policy, and you shouldn?t either!?[/quote][/color][/size]

[color=crimson]Oh my.. you are serious.

*snorts* Well, I'm sure Charles doesn't know how much his avatar affects the stability and order of this message board. I hope he finds out quickly- who knows what kind of damage he is inadvertently doing.[/color]

[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1'] I guess what I?m getting at is that the situation in the Role-Playing forum needs to be addressed, and the younger mods like Aaryana, Amelia, and while not young but still newer to the boards indifference also need to be replaced by members who have been here longer and are as competent and more deserving.[/quote][/color][/size]

[color=crimson]The moderators listed aren't any less deserving of their positions for such silly reasons. Say what you will, but I disagree with you.[/color]

[quote name='The Boss][color=navy][size=1']"Why not them?". Certainly they are more qualified, but I fear that it is a case of personal taste in selection rather than a business oriented deal.[/quote][/color][/size]

[color=crimson][i]No[/i]. Just being here a few more years doesn't make you that much more qualified than newer people who are as competent, active and responsible as you are. As DW said they arrived posting like they had already been here a few years.[/color]

[quote name='The Boss][color=navy][size=1][b]P.S.[/b] - Oh, and yes. Charles' banner doesn't really reflect taste, nor do I think it's appropriate for the younger members of the OBs to have to see. Hell, it almost got me in trouble at one point when my Dad looked over to me on the computer and thought I was looking up porn. Heh. Not a huge deal, but it is bothersome.[/color'][/size][/quote]

[color=crimson]Heh. Unfortunately suggestive images [i]aren't[/i] pornographic. It is, however, humorous.[/color]

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[COLOR=Sienna] [quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]Take this as you will but its just me exercising my freedom of speech.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]Very well, then I will do the same. [QUOTE=AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]More so than inactivity is the age range of our mod staff, and lack of experience. Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!), have less than 500 posts and haven?t even been here a year.[/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]Perhaps you could clarify this for me. What has age got to do with one?s ability to post? If you didn?t look at Aaryanna?s profile you wouldn?t even know she?s thirteen as she has better post quality than other members who are older than she is. DW and DeathKnight make a good point, if they post just fine at the age of thirteen, who cares how old they are? If age is really such an issue; well she?s going to be fourteen this Thursday; and DeathKnight mentioned that they were a moderator when they were only fourteen or fifteen.

Why is having than 500 posts important? I find it hard to believe that having a set amount of posts somehow makes you a better poster than other members. Usually people who take the time to put in a good post do so from the very beginning and others with a little encouragement improve as well. It?s fairly easy to have borderline post quality just to reach a set number of posts. Thinking that more posts or being a member for over a year makes a member a better contributor to the site is something I don?t agree with. All it means is they have over 500 posts and have been here a year. Nothing more. [quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]the younger mods like Aaryana, Amelia, and while not young but still newer to the boards indifference also need to be replaced by members who have been here longer and are as competent and more deserving.[/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]Again, since when did the time a member has been here somehow make them more deserving? I think such an attitude sends a poor message to anyone who wants to join. It?s like saying, you can join, but since I?ve been here longer than you and I have a higher post count I am better than you are. We might as well tell people that there is no need to contribute to anything since they can never be as good as a member who has been here longer. That they are less deserving.

Sorry but as one of the ?newer? members I do not agree with you. [/COLOR]

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[QUOTE=AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]Lets see. First off I've never come to Suggestion & Feedback before because the OB never needed it but in these past months I'm seeing a decrease in a desire to frequent these boards for a few reasons..

1. It seems that we get new members by the bundle every day and that?s fine, but when most just won't clean up their post quality and make an active effort to abide by the TOS it tends to make the boards look trashy. I remember a time when the OB was a, 'shape up or ship out' kind of message board. What happened?

2. Our moderator staff. This is a big one in a few ways such as the Arena Underground mod Bio. He hasn't posted anything since February and he was last active at the beginning of this month. Is that not dereliction of duty? More so than inactivity is the age range of our mod staff, and lack of experience. Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!), have less than 500 posts and haven?t even been here a year. Another mod that has caught my interest is Ozymandius Jones, who seems a bit lazy for her own good. Why does it take 150+ posts to figure out a thread is sorely lacking in quality and must be shut down? How about a certain Pokemon RPG that is still up after Ozy warned them to clean up the post quality? Hello? Thread lock yet?

Then there is Charles who seems to disregard and blatantly flame other members and bounces around and mods where he feels like it and the porn avatar? I?m not sure about you guys but isn?t a moderator supposed to be a sort of role model for other members as well as the police of the message boards? The signal that Charles?s avatar sends me is; ?Hey! I don?t give a crap about policy, and you shouldn?t either!?

Don?t get me wrong, there are plenty of moderators who do their job such as Bombu, Revelation, and Retribution among others. I guess what I?m getting at is that the situation in the Role-Playing forum needs to be addressed, and the younger mods like Aaryana, Amelia, and while not young but still newer to the boards indifference also need to be replaced by members who have been here longer and are as competent and more deserving.

I guess those are my main issues with the boards as is. If these issued were addressed then the OB would reform greatly and we?d all see the OB re-emerge that we loved back 2 - 3 years ago. Take this as you will but its just me exercising my freedom of speech.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[color=indigo][size=1][font=arial]lol, internet.[/font][/size][/color]

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[quote]1. It seems that we get new members by the bundle every day and that?s fine, but when most just won't clean up their post quality and make an active effort to abide by the TOS it tends to make the boards look trashy. I remember a time when the OB was a, 'shape up or ship out' kind of message board. What happened?[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I think that we try to reach a happy medium. I know I wouldn't want to be using a service that had no flexibility whatsoever; so I have instructed the staff to try to be lenient where possible. If someone is making an effort to improve (even if their posts are not perfect), they are generally allowed to stay. Only in cases where someone refuses to improve (or even acknowledge the warnings), will we actually remove them without any further notice.

The main problem is just that there are certain realities to running a place of this size. We are rapidly growing, but quality staff are difficult to find. More importantly, the staff we do have also have their own lives; I cannot expect them to dedicate every single hour of their day to the site. The idea is that this place is for leisure and keeping things under control is difficult enough. If I put too much pressure on the staff, we simply won't have any staff (and believe me, my requirements are already pretty high).

In addition, we have a situation where we've had groups of staff leaving or being added within short spaces of time. This requires significant adjustment on our part and it's not something that can be ironed out immediately.

I can only tell you that I am aware of these issues and that I am trying to keep staff levels in balance, while also keeping everyone well-trained and aware of what they need to do. We will always have times where we get a glut of lower-quality posts - that's just the reality. But that is always dealt with eventually.

So in short, I don't think you will see this being a regular problem forever. It's just something we go through now and then.[/font]

[quote]2. Our moderator staff. This is a big one in a few ways such as the Arena Underground mod Bio. He hasn't posted anything since February and he was last active at the beginning of this month. Is that not dereliction of duty? More so than inactivity is the age range of our mod staff, and lack of experience. Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!), have less than 500 posts and haven?t even been here a year. Another mod that has caught my interest is Ozymandius Jones, who seems a bit lazy for her own good. Why does it take 150+ posts to figure out a thread is sorely lacking in quality and must be shut down? How about a certain Pokemon RPG that is still up after Ozy warned them to clean up the post quality? Hello? Thread lock yet? [/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]Okay, there are a few things I need to say here.

In Bio's case, yes, there should have been more notice related to inactivity. But this has now been sorted out and as far as I'm concerned, it has been dealt with. Bio has stepped down because he does not have the time to commit to the site anymore.

The big thing here - and the thing I'm going to take issue with - is the concept of experience.

First and foremost, age is not a barrier to becoming a staff member here. I have seen members on this site who are [i]over[/i] twenty years old, but who post as though they are ten years old. If you are concerned only about post quality on OtakuBoards, age cannot and should not be a major factor in staff decisions.

Moreover, the minimum age for registration is thirteen. If we claim to want to involve all members in the operation of the site, we cannot arbitrarily exclude a group of them based only on age (especially if many of them are quality contributors).

I also do not believe that the amount of time spent at OtakuBoards (or the number of posts) is particularly relevant. Yes, experience can be good because it means that you know the site well. But if you're a long-time member, you might also be less flexible and less open to change - you may also demonstrate favoratism in your decisions. This is avoided with newer members.

In addition to that, why should the number of posts be relevant? We keep talking about post quality and not post quantity - including a post number requirement for staff is not only arbitrary, but it also goes against the idea that we are more interested in the qualitative stuff.

As for Ozy, she can speak for herself (and I would welcome her to do that if she wishes). But I would only make a couple of points. First, a Moderator cannot always ascertain the quality of a thread based on the first few posts; it is sometimes necessary to wait and see how a thread pans out. It isn't always fair to close a thread too soon, especially if you aren't giving the thread creator a chance to improve.

Also, even after a warning, it is sometimes wiser to let a thread run through for a little while. It's really just a matter of giving staff a chance.[/font]

[quote]Then there is Charles who seems to disregard and blatantly flame other members and bounces around and mods where he feels like it and the porn avatar? I?m not sure about you guys but isn?t a moderator supposed to be a sort of role model for other members as well as the police of the message boards? The signal that Charles?s avatar sends me is; ?Hey! I don?t give a crap about policy, and you shouldn?t either!?
[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]I don't think that Charles disregards and flames other members, firstly. The problem is that some people simply misinterpret him; it's easy to be too sensitive when it comes to debates or discussions. Charles is an honest person and he always posts with a lighthearted tone. I think it is generally obvious that this is his intention and I am not going to make him censor his personality - he does obey the rules and although he gets close to the fringe at times, I don't think he ever seriously violates anything. I'm sure most people would agree with that.

As for his avatar...well, there's no accounting for taste. I don't personally like it, but I understand that it's designed to be tongue-in-cheek and it doesn't actually violate any of our rules. There's no nudity or anything. All you could [i]maybe[/i] say is that it's suggestive. But if I started going after people who do anything suggestive, most of our membership would disappear. lol[/font]

[quote]
Don?t get me wrong, there are plenty of moderators who do their job such as Bombu, Revelation, and Retribution among others. I guess what I?m getting at is that the situation in the Role-Playing forum needs to be addressed, and the younger mods like Aaryana, Amelia, and while not young but still newer to the boards indifference also need to be replaced by members who have been here longer and are as competent and more deserving.
[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]With respect, I feel that Desbreko (and myself to some extent) are in the best position to decide who is competent. Admittedly I do not play a direct role in hiring anymore, but I [i]do[/i] approve each and every hiring decision. So I do take responsibility for the choices that are made.

I am happy with the younger Moderators and I am not prepared to remove them. They are doing their job to a fair degree and I am comfortable with the way they conduct themselves. At the end of the day, I am the one who has to decide how I want the site to operate - when I am sufficiently dissatisfied with things, I change them.

I agree that we need more staff in certain areas and this is something I am working on with Desbreko. But it takes time and it isn't something to be rushed.[/font]

[quote]I guess those are my main issues with the boards as is. If these issued were addressed then the OB would reform greatly and we?d all see the OB re-emerge that we loved back 2 - 3 years ago. Take this as you will but its just me exercising my freedom of speech.[/quote]

[font=franklin gothic medium]The problem is that too many people look at this site (and any other) with rose-colored glasses. You think OB was in a golden age two to three years ago? I don't know about that. There are people and events that I miss...there are RPGs that I have fond memories of and so on. But I would probably have that same fondness for more recent events if I chose to participate in them; that's what it comes down to.

So while I'm all for nostalgia, I don't think that it necessarily equates to a truly accurate view of the site. I understand why you feel this way but when looking at things in a broader sense, I don't really share all of your concerns (though as I've mentioned above, I do share some).

I am pleased that you've posted with your concerns and I do not want people to feel that they can't make complaints or suggestions.

However, of course, I also reserve the right to respond to those comments and to explain why we do certain things and what is being done to remedy problems. I hope that my comments here have helped to clarify my position on your complaints and the relevant issues, anyway. As I said, I do welcome your comments and I'm glad you took the time to make them (I'm also glad that you care enough about OB to take time to discuss its welfare :catgirl: ).[/font]

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Hey, thread starter, aren't you the guy who misinterpreted one of my comments about a month ago, then proceeded to flame me via a private message entitled "Do Not Reply," at which time I did indeed reply seeking a rational discussion--to which you never replied?

I have to say, I'm a bit hurt. I view myself as a very sensible guy. To demonstrate this, I've changed my avatar as a good-will gesture. Celebrate!

[CENTER][IMG]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1752/breakin8yf9um.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]

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[size=1][url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=430792]Click Me[/url].

OtakuBoards was so much better 3 years ago.[/size]

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[size=1][B]@ Charles:[/B] Love your new avatar. Hahaha...

In any event, I think it tactless to toss out names and call them incompetent in a public forum. While my name wasn't really included in the bunch, and I appreciate you thinking I do my job well, this really should've been dealt with via PM for obvious reasons.

That aside, I admittely cannot forsee a drastic change, even if we were to do a moderator-shuffle to fill in the cracks and strengthen our ranks. Most of the power is with the member-base. It is you who makes intelligent threads, interesting RPGs, or beautiful works. All [i]we[/i] do is lock up the threads.[/size]

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[COLOR=DarkOrange][QUOTE=AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]
2. Our moderator staff. This is a big one in a few ways such as the Arena Underground mod Bio. He hasn't posted anything since February and he was last active at the beginning of this month. Is that not dereliction of duty? More so than inactivity is the age range of our mod staff, and lack of experience. Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!), have less than 500 posts and haven?t even been here a year. Another mod that has caught my interest is Ozymandius Jones, who seems a bit lazy for her own good. Why does it take 150+ posts to figure out a thread is sorely lacking in quality and must be shut down? How about a certain Pokemon RPG that is still up after Ozy warned them to clean up the post quality? Hello? Thread lock yet? [/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Well, y'see, there's this little thing called 'real life' that occasionally takes precendent over the interwebs. I'm in college, and I work, so not every thread gets an instant warning/lock.

With that being said, yes, those few horribly spammy threads went on far too long. Most of them started out being spammy, warnings were isssued when I saw or was informed of the poor quality, and then things went on as usual. Considering they were never reported again, I let them slide, thinking they'd picked up.

The threads that my attention was then drawn to again were locked, or at the very least warned because [b]some[/b] of the players were trying. Since then, several members tried to ignore the warnings and have been banned; and since then some of the players have - get this - [b]improved[/b]. That pokemon RP you were talking about? Since then, the quality has gone up. Sure, it's no "War and Peace", no Hybrid Vigor, but at least the grammar, length and spelling have gone up.

[QUOTE=The Boss][color=navy][size=1]
The lack of participation by Bio and Ozy in the Arena all together has me a bit concernced, as is the choosing of Mods who are basically new members from the past year and a half. I can name a dozen members off the bat whom I'm sure would do just a good a job, if not better, than some of the staff. I'm not saying that the staff in general is bad, nor do I hold a grudge against any of them. It's simply I find it unfair that some members were passed up for those important positions regardless of their experience and dedication to the Boards.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

Hmm. That's funny. That's really really funny. You see, I've locked every spammy signup that's come up since I started. I've warned and locked a whole boatload of RPs that made it to the Square somehow. Go back and check the archives over the last year. I've been very active. As mentioned before, it's not always [i]instant[/i] activity, but it is activity. I log in every day, check things every day, and if something needs locked, I do it. It may not be [i]instant[/i], but I do. And if I don't, it's because Lady Asphyxia beats me to it.

Lastly, J is in charge of picking moderators. I'm sure he keeps an eye on us, who is active, who isn't active, and so on. Not during my over-a-year time as mod has he had to voice one word of complaint, as far as I know. So...yeah. Thanks for the vote of confidence, fellas.

Also, Boo, you are officially my new best friend.[/COLOR]

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[COLOR=#656446]Charles' avatar ain't porn. If you hum that [i]Numa numa ei[/i] song while looking at his avatar, you'll realize from the way it oddly keeps the song's rhythm that it's part of the promotional video.

Fo shizz yo.

[SIZE=1]This reply is a good counter-proof to the statement "high post count = mod candidate." Save it before it gets deleted.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

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[quote name='James][font=franklin gothic medium']But if I started going after people who do anything suggestive, most of our membership would disappear. lol[/font][/quote]

I know I'd be gone ;)

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[COLOR=SeaGreen]Hehehe! I think I love your new avatar too Charles. ^_^
[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1] Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!), have less than 500 posts and haven?t even been here a year.[/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote]I think you kind of lost me here, yes I?m thirteen, and your point? I?m confused as to what you are trying to say here. Am I not allowed to post as clearly and coherently as I am capable of just because I am thirteen? And I need 500 posts because?? Let me think, 500 is a good even number? Is that it?

I understood that the idea was that OtakuBoards encouraged members to excel in their writing skills. I understood it to mean that posting to the best of your ability was more important that having a certain post count. And if my age really bothers you, well as indifference already noticed. I?ll be fourteen this Thursday. :p[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]the younger mods like Aaryana, Amelia, and while not young but still newer to the boards indifference also need to be replaced by members who have been here longer and are as competent and more deserving.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]It seems to me that your main objection is based on age and length of membership. Instead of on actually ability and interest in contributing to the community. I agree with indifference; that?s like saying a member who has been here longer or has more posts is therefore better than others and that?s not true.[QUOTE=AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1] If these issued were addressed then the OB would reform greatly and we?d all see the OB re-emerge that we loved back 2 - 3 years ago. [/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote][QUOTE=Boo][size=1][url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=430792]Click Me[/url].

OtakuBoards was so much better 3 years ago.[/size][/QUOTE]Quoted for truth. ;) If I was older I'd want to adopt you Boo. ^_^[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Boo][size=1][url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?p=430792]Click Me[/url].

OtakuBoards was so much better 3 years ago.[/size][/QUOTE][font=century gothic][color=red]lol...omg...that is like the most awesome thread ever lol ;)[/color][/font]

[color=#4B0082]Okay, seriously now, James is right. It's easy to look back and remember the good while forgetting the bad. I try not to do that, however, and you know what I remember? People complaining two years ago when v7 launched, saying how things were so much better during v5 and v6. :animesigh

Anyway, James already addressed pretty much all the issues here, so I don't really want to repeat him. But there is one thing that has always struck a nerve with me whenever it's brought up:[/color]

[quote name='AC!D!C][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=1]More so than inactivity is the age range of our mod staff, and lack of experience. Some moderators are only 14 or 15 (Aaryana is 13!), have less than 500 posts and haven?t even been here a year.[/SIZE'][/COLOR][/quote][color=#4B0082]I basically just want to point out the fact that I was 14 when I was first hired as a moderator, and I had only been here for six months. (I did have over 500 posts, but if you could see those 500 you wouldn't be impressed.) I was also still 14 when I was promoted to a category moderator position two months later. I don't mean to boast, but I do mean to point out that younger members can make excellent additions to the staff.

I'm an example of that myself, so whenever someone makes the assertion that younger members aren't as good or as qualified, they're also indirectly making that assertion against myself as well as whoever else. Given that, I take those kinds of comments a bit personally. Now, maybe some people also have problems with me, but for the most part I think I've done a pretty good job around here. And I strongly dislike undeserved criticism.[/color]

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[color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]Is this your way of trying to become a moderator? It isn't working. :([/FONT][/COLOR]

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[quote name='White][color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]Is this your way of trying to become a moderator? It isn't working. :([/FONT'][/COLOR][/quote]

[size=1]No, it's not. I know for a fact it's not. What it is, is that there is a group of OB members (oldies) that see the OB as going down hill, and they are concerned. They wanted to address their concerns/issues, and that's what this is.

Screw being a mod/admin, they're concerned about the OB.[/size]

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[color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]Mmm.

I really don't see OtakuBoards going downhill at all. I remember that when the first new member was dubbed Moderator I was a little taken back myself. But I talked to James and he basically set me straight.

I'm not sure I see how OB is going downhill but it seems all AC!D!C is concerned with is Mods. Sure, I remember the old v6 days, and I remember them being good. But I also remember v7 coming and it getting so much better.

I can think of very little examples of a member who has posted a bad thread and it hasn't been taken care of. Nothing can be perfect, but I think OtakuBoards is very close.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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[quote name='Athena][size=1']No, it's not. I know for a fact it's not. What it is, is that there is a group of OB members (oldies) that see the OB as going down hill, and they are concerned. They wanted to address their concerns/issues, and that's what this is.[/size][/quote]

[color=crimson]When [i]isn't[/i] OB going through some sort of rapid, cataclysmic decline in the eyes of some portion of the oldbie member base?[/color]

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Eh, I once (or twice) have started a similar type of thread in this very section, and although I nod to James's reasonings, I don't think this thread's criticism is [I]totally[/I] undeserved like Des suggested. At least not in the sense that [I]any[/I] criticism is undeserved, because feedback is always good - it either helps you realize the problems or strengthen your view that everything is just fine.

I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but it seems that many members (and mods alike) in here have a hard time taking in negative feedback about this boards. As the first two posters said, this thread is not meant as the personal attack against [I]all[/I] moderators as some people have interpreted it. I don't agree with many things they said, though - I see Aaryanna and Ozy as good and diligent mods, for instance - but they still have the right to voice out their opinions.

As I've said many times before, and James agrees with me, [I]Suggestions & Feedback[/I] section is [I]meant[/I] for this type of threads. If people can't post their concerns here without being instantly hammered down, where else can they turn?

OB is not a dictatorship where a word against those in "power" will get you banned immediately, and I sincerely hope it'll never become one either.

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[QUOTE=White][color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]
I'm not sure I see how OB is going downhill but it seems all AC!D!C is concerned with is Mods. [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[size=1]Okay, I have something to bring to everyone's attention. I'm doing this because I'm very angry with the other members of MAMA. This is ri-goddamn-diculous about how these members are just leaving AC!D!C out to get picked apart. He took a risk, and posted because the other members have been to chicken-**** to post. So here it goes, to the best of my sane ability.

MAMA stands for "Members Against Mods and Admins". It's a group that's been "secretive" about their angst/anger/whatever the crap you want to call it of how they perceive the OB now from back-in-the-day. They're upset about all the new mods, the poor quality in posts these days, how "n00bs" are running the scene, and about how they feel that "oldies" are being treated poorly (mainly because they're sour that they aren't mods themselves instead of the new members). Honestly, I did go through an angst stage that I'd been here for a long time, and felt I didn't get the recognition I felt I deserved. Over the past six months or so, I just don't care anymore.

However, this group still does...and the issues AC!D!C posted on were not from his own mouth/mind, but from the members of MAMA who have done [b]NOTHING[/b] to back him up, or themselves up. Their excuse to not backing Joe up? "I don't see how it would help at this point now."

What the hell? You guys have IMed me, PMed me, RANTED AT/WITH ME about these such pressing issues, yet you are going to just sit here and do absolutely nothing; and let someone else take the fall? That excuse of "you're on your own now, nothing can help you" is not flying by me smoothly, at all. You're a member of this MAMA, [b]say something on your part[/b], damn it.

You know what, it appears to me that you guys got your a$$es handed to you, and now you don't know what to do. That's how I see this thread. You guys had no really solid footing for this broad discussion, and you've just made yourselves look like spoiled, tantrum-throwing children. Seriously, I'm very disappointed. You all know who you are.

Furthermore, if you have such drastic concerns, all you have to do is talk to James or Des. Both are very understanding, and will listen to whatever you have to say. I understand that it's very inimidating to some people, but I assure you that James and Des are both extremely pleasant and so easy to talk to.

So, grow up, or speak up.

[b]DeathKnight[/b]-- Oh, I know, I know. But some oldies cry more than others. And I'm tired of hearing them.[/size]

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[SIZE=1]Actually, Annie, I didn't even know Joe was a part of MAMA. Hell, I hardly knew who was a part of it until recently. I just want to say that not all the members are unhappy with all of the mods. I myself am not. In fact, there are only a couple that I feel have been given positions that I feel others could have done better.

I talk to quite a few of the mods and consider a few of them friends. They do a great job, but my main concern was the fact that members, like JJ, Sakura, The Boss etc who have been on the Boards for a long time, have had consistent post quality and always follow the rules don't get recognition they deserve.

I felt I had to say something as one of the members of the group you're having a go at, because you're grouping us all together. Not everyone has an extreme problem with the system here and I'm a little saddened that you felt it necessary to place us all together. I'm not having a go at you because I still consider you a friend, I just didn't want to be placed with something I didn't actually believe. I know you?d do the same if someone did the same to you.

There are some points of Joe's post that I agree with and others I don't. I believe post quality above all matters on this board and age shouldn't be a factor. However, as I said earlier, I think that members who have been here longer, are fantastic posters and wonderful people also deserve some recognition and I feel that some have been unfairly overlooked.

Yes, I am a little bitter. I admit that, because I'm the kind of person who wants attention. MAMA was a way for me to vent that frustration and I guess it was a little childish, but perhaps that's the kind of person I am.

I really don't want to get anyones back-up, so I really hope I haven't offended anyone with what I've said.[/SIZE]

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[size=1]See, that's exactly why people of MAMA or Viva Otaku need to post. Not everyone of them feels the same way, but who'd know if they don't speak up. Letting one person speak for the entire group doesn't help, and makes everyone look the same.

I'm glad you posted, 'zeke. It clears things up. And I'm sure Joe'll thank you for it later.

[b]Edit[/b]- And I thank you.[/size]

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*feels like he's seriously missed something*

Wait... MAMA? Viva Otaku? Is this... *gasp* ... a mutiny?! A conspiracy?! An underground movement?!?!

Exciting, but at the same time very, [I]very[/I] immature and pathetic. I mean, [I]come on![/I] You're rebelling because you haven't been made moderators just because you've been around for so-and-so many years?!

Well, why don't you take a number and [I]join the line[/I]! Or perhaps you should wonder if your attitudes have something to do with you being "mere" members?

And seriously, quality-wise OB is many times better than in the olden days. Just check that link Boo posted in the first page to see for yourselves!

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[quote name='Athena][size=1']MAMA stands for "Members Against Mods and Admins". It's a group that's been "secretive" about their angst/anger/whatever the crap you want to call it of how they perceive the OB now from back-in-the-day. They're upset about all the new mods, the poor quality in posts these days, how "n00bs" are running the scene, and about how they feel that "oldies" are being treated poorly (mainly because they're sour that they aren't mods themselves instead of the new members), etc, etc.[/size][/quote]

[CENTER][IMG]http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6578/laughitup9ak2vn.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]

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