Anime Peace Maker Kurogane

[Dagger]

[quote name='keyblade master']I have never heard of the anime but the way you people talk about it makes me think it must be good. Can someone help me and tell me if they sell this anime and where at please?[/quote]

Peace Maker Kurogane is still running in Japan. It's supposed to be twenty-four episodes long, and I believe that the twenty-first episode will be released sometime late tonight or early tomorrow morning. Anyway, the series hasn't yet been licensed, so you won't be able to acquire it on DVD (don't even [i]consider[/i] buying bootlegs, or I'll be forced to give you a rather boring lecture about the negative consequences of doing so). The only way to see PMK is by downloading it; private message me if you'd like to know how.

[quote]I have one last request can anyone give me a small summary of what its about please if it isnt to much trouble?[/QUOTE]

Did you even read my first post? Oh, well. I suppose it can't hurt to re-summarize PMK's plot, especially since I've now seen much more of the show.

Peace Maker Kurogane has a very large cast, but it focuses primarily on Tetsu Ichimura, a fifteen-year-old page in the Shinsengumi (a group of Japanese assassins); Tatsu Ichimura, his older brother; Okita Souji, a highly skilled and kind-hearted manslayer; and Hijikata Toshi, who is both Okita's mentor and one of the Shinsengumi's powerful vice-chiefs. Nearly all of the principal characters--including Toshi, Souji, Saitou, Shinpachi, Yamanani, Tetsu and Yoshida--are actual historical figures.

It takes place during the Meiji Revolution, some time before Rurouni Kenshin, but overlaps slightly with the Samurai X OVAs. So Kenshin fans might find this series particularly interesting, as it shows the Shinsengumi's point of view.

Tetsu is technically the main character, although several episodes only feature him briefly. His goal in joining the Shinsengumi is to avenge his father's untimely death, and over the course of Peace Maker Kurogane we see him growing stronger, developing many deep friendships, and getting chased by a rabid (but incredibly cute) man-eating pig.

(The pig is something which utterly defies description. See it for yourself. ^_~)

If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

~Dagger~

[JazzLady22]

Episode 21, what is there to say?

Accursed cliffhangers! They actually expect us to sit here for a week with the knowledge that the next episode is the climactic battle sequence they tantalized us with in episode 1? That's sick, man.

[Spoiler] I felt so awful for poor Tetsu, especially after that ending part with Susumu. Which made me pretty mad, now that we mention it. For a few episodes, it looked like they were going to become friends. But Susumu just went a liiiiiiitle too far there, espeically when he suggested seppuku (my jaw was to the floor at that point... heh). It was a pretty shocking sequence altogether, especially when Tatsu went to punch him at the end. [/spoiler]

[Spoiler] My poor, poor, TB-ridden Okita-san. That was not a very pleasant sounding cough. As a fangirl, I am quite concerned. Historically, he would have died a few years after the incidents in PMK. But this is historical [I]fiction[/I]. They do what they damn well please. They wouldn't kill him, would they Dagger? *Chibi eyes* [/spoiler]

I'm very anxious to see what develops with Suzu as well. At this point, I can't really be sure of what he's doing.

And Dagger: yes, Hijikata can be one terrifying dude. [Spoiler] But he didn't kill Masuya, and if he did, it either wasn't on-screen, or I totally missed it.[/spoiler]

It's going to be a long wait until Thursday, methinks.

[haruno_sakura]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]Isn't it difficult to imagine that Tetsu, Susumu and Suzu are all the same age? This makes the conflict between Tetsu and each of the others even more dramatic, but I have a hard time convincing myself that Susumu isn't as old as Okita. >_>;

Since it's ending so soon, my main worry is that certain characters--particularly Saya--will end up being neglected. But I have faith in PMK's creators. ^_^
[/QUOTE]

AH, I haven't been on this thread in a while ; __ ;

Anyway, I didn't even know that Susumu was Tetsu's age! o_0 I always thought of him as someone older, haha, mainly because he's so much taller LOL. Also, because he was always quite reserved and quiet, he came off as more mature to me. o_0 Also, out of Tetsu, Suzu and Susumu, Susumu is the only one who sounds like he's gone through puberty LOL, so I automatically assumed that he was at least Okita's age LOL.

I've been worrying about Saya as well! She is one of my favorite characters, and I really do hope they don't just forget about her. It's going to be hard to say what they'll do though since there are only 3 episodes left! ::tears::

I'm also interested to see what they'll do with Suzu. For some reason, I think he and Tetsu are going to have to face each other and fight as enemies. ::tears::

~haruno_sakura

[Dagger]

Welcome back! ^_^

A few days ago, I was browsing the LiveJournal PMK community. After a minute or so, I noticed that one member had an animated avatar of Okita kissing Tatsu; the text beneath the image read "Photoshop.... bringing people together." Although I'm a firm believer in Souji/Toshi, seeing that definitely made my day. ^_~

I'm going to wait until the last three episodes are released before deciding whether or not I'm completely happy with them (happy being a relative term, of course.... for all I know, everyone's going to end up in bloody little pieces). At the same time, I feel that PMK could sustain another six or seven episodes, or even a second season. It has so many memorable characters, and there's a lot that could be done with people like Saya, Ryouma and Kondou, who's remained a background figure throughout most of the anime.

All good things must come to an end, I suppose.

Suzu is a fascinating little fellow. It would be interesting to see him in battle, particularly since I don't think he's had any more combat experience than Tetsu. Their situations are clearly supposed to be analogous, and I really hope that he comes out of this alive. He seems like the kind of person who would follow his master into danger even if Yoshida expressly told him not to come.

Has anyone read the later volumes of the second manga series (Peace Maker Kurogane, not Shinsengumi Imon Peace Maker)? I've seen a couple scans, and Suzu looks freaking [i]diabolical[/i].... in an extremely beautiful, ethereal sort of way (of course), but my sources do seem to indicate that he becomes borderline psychotic. I wonder why...

Lunar will probably release episode 22 sometime tonight. I'm certainly going to be on the lookout. ^_^

~Dagger~

[JazzLady22]

Just watched episode 22. I have to say, out of all the anime I've seen thus far, none of them have actually made me HOLD MY BREATH throughout an entire sequence. PMK has just broken the trend.

Time for some fangirl ranting!

[Spoiler] Oh my God! My poor, poor Okita! Are they at least going to tell you if he's okay (for the time being)? Coughing up blood is not good... not good at all. And they're just going to leave us there? No way! It's not fair! I have to see what happens! And where is Hijikata-san and everyone else? They need backup in there, darn it! Ohhhhhhh, this is driving me insane! *Pulls out a chunk of hair and screams* [/spoiler]

But let's talk about something positive, eh? The animation. The things they did with this epiosde just totally blew me away. I was so impressed withe the whole thing; battle sequences and all.

I honestly have no idea what they'll do with the ending. All I know is, this is gonna keep me up all night! Okita fangirls (you know who you are), come and share my pain. *Cries*

[Dagger]

The support group is here, Beck! ^_~

Episode 22 [i]definitely[/i] succeeded in stunning me. Visually, aurally, emotionally--everything came together so perfectly, and watching it was a pretty overwhelming experience. I don't think I could ever get tired of seeing [spoiler]Kondou kick ridiculous amounts of ***.[/spoiler]

I completely agree with you about the action sequences. I personally harbor a secret adoration for animated violence, and this episode showcases the best sword/spear/ninja fights in [i]any[/i] anime except perhaps the Kenshin OAVs. As a matter of fact, I was also impressed by how they integrated the footage from the beginning of episode 1.

There were a few moments during which I almost felt sorry for Yoshida. Almost. That naturally changed when [spoiler]he hurt our precious Okita. *growls* Get your *** over there, Hijikata!

Tetsu is beginning to grow up in a big way. I thought that what he said during the battle was actually very meaningful, unlike the vast majority of anime action dialogue. Not to pick on Kenshin, but I'm grateful that the scriptwriters didn't interrupt PMK's rapid, fluid fighting with long spiels about various techniques.[/spoiler]

There's so much to discuss! [spoiler]Susumu and Akesato, for one thing--although I'm fairly sure she'll have a tragic ending, I look forward to seeing whether or not Yanamani will discover her true identity.[/spoiler]

*dances around the room* Despite its evil, evil cliffhangers, this show makes me incredibly happy. Next Thursday shall be a glorious day indeed.... hang in there, Okita!

~Dagger~

[r2vq]

Hajimemashite!

I am new to the forum, but I've been loyal to Peace Maker Kurogane since Lunar started fansubbing it! SUCH A BEAUTIFUL SERIES!

I love it love it love it love it!

The characters, the animation, the historical ties, the battles scenes! They all surpass anything on my current viewing list!

I give the series :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :ball: out of :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: .

I cannot give a full mark until I am satisfied with the ending.

Two things though...
In reply to someone's comment on Susumu being harsh. I think it was the slap in the face that Tetsu needed to get going. He's been wallowing in himself allowing nobody to come near him. He's in his safe zone, but he needs to get his *** out of there!
Comparing what Susumu says to a slap would be the best way to describe it. Harsh, painful, usually unnecessary, but in that case used to motivate a person.
Though... Not the kind of thing I would ever say :D

The other thing, I know I'm being anal retentive when I say this... but did anybody else notice the following... um... error? [spoiler]The bald man breaking through the wall during the seige didn't seem to be the Sanosuke promised to us in Episode 1!!![/spoiler] That's right! I DON'T know how to use this spoiler thing! :o

Please... compare... I don't know how to use attachments yet... so if you can click the Screenshots I took... Please click [URL=http://www.angelfire.com/weird/r2vq/peace_maker.html]here[/URL]. It will take you to my Angelfire instead. Same thing... only in HTML format for easy comparison! :devil:

-ArV

[Dagger]

*grins* It's always nice to meet another fan. Welcome to OtakuBoards, r2vq. ^_^ By the way, I really like your ratings system; I've never before seen anyone come up with a truly constructive use for forum smilies. So consider me both amused and rather impressed.


[quote name='r2vq][spoiler]The bald man breaking through the wall during the seige didn't seem to be the Sanosuke promised to us in Episode 1!!![/spoiler'] That's right! I DON'T know how to use this spoiler thing! :o[/quote]

I also noticed that discrepancy, and it confused the heck out of me. Anyway, thanks for providing us with screenshots--they make it infinitely easier to compare the two scenes. You're being extremely helpful. ^_~

Since I suppose it would be historically incorrect to put [spoiler]Sanosuke in Kondou's party, I have no idea why GONZO originally included him, especially if that ended up forcing them to re-do the animation. Perhaps Sano was in the first episode's teaser sequence because he.... um, looks cooler, and therefore might compell more viewers to stick with the show. I honestly have no idea; none of this makes much sense. He obviously wasn't an important character at that early point in PMK, so non-manga readers would have no reason to care whether the spear-man was him or a random bald guy.[/spoiler]

However, I don't think I'd call the [spoiler]change of characters[/spoiler] an error. GONZO must have done it on purpose, as animation (particularly that of PMK's caliber) is quite expensive, and other parts of the scene shown in episode 1 were re-used without any alteration.

I've watched episode 22 at least three times by now, and I still haven't tired of all the bloodshed. [spoiler]Poor Okita-san.... *sobs*[/spoiler]

EDIT: Beck, you [i]must[/i] take a look at [URL=http://www.windyday.com/Animage042.jpg][u]this[/u][/URL] Animage scan.

EDIT #2: Now that I think about it, not all of the teaser footage appears in episode 22 (i.e. Tetsu [spoiler]screaming Okita's name and Suzu desperately saying....well, something.[/spoiler]) There wasn't much non-instrumental audio during that scene. :/

~Dagger~

[JazzLady22]

Oh Dagger... *faints* I'm saving that picture into my special folder. You are my hero! *Glomps insanely* You've made a fangirl happy today!

Yes, I noticed that [spoiler]Tetsu panicking and screaming for Okita-san[/spoiler] was not there. Maybe in 23? *Shrug*

Wow, I didn't even notice that thing with Sano... I'll have to watch episode 1 and 22 more closely and see if I can pick up on some of these things.

And speaking of historical accuracy, I've been having some fun brushing up on my Shinsengumi knowledge. I think the coolest thing I've found so far was that Hijikata-san was a pretty secretive guy, and most of the stuff known about him is through his page... Ichimura Tetsunosuke. Cool, huh?

[r2vq]

[QUOTE=JazzLady22]Oh Dagger... *faints* I'm saving that picture into my special folder. You are my hero! *Glomps insanely* You've made a fangirl happy today!

Yes, I noticed that [spoiler]Tetsu panicking and screaming for Okita-san[/spoiler] was not there. Maybe in 23? *Shrug*

Wow, I didn't even notice that thing with Sano... I'll have to watch episode 1 and 22 more closely and see if I can pick up on some of these things.

And speaking of historical accuracy, I've been having some fun brushing up on my Shinsengumi knowledge. I think the coolest thing I've found so far was that Hijikata-san was a pretty secretive guy, and most of the stuff known about him is through his page... Ichimura Tetsunosuke. Cool, huh?[/QUOTE]

Hm...
First, Thanks for the warm welcome Dagger! I finally feel wanted. "I choose thee! ArV!" :ball:

Second, I noticed the same thing after watching 1 and 22 a few times for comparison. [spoiler]Tetsu did say Okita-san, maybe? But definately did not scream it.[/spoiler] I was wondering if that was another discrepency (not mistake :p ) between the two episodes. But I completely forgot about [spoiler]Suzu's mumblings[/spoiler] from the first episode. He seems to say, 'yes, there will be more of what was promised from episode 1 in the next episode.'

I worry not...

JazzLady! I also have been reading on what I can from the Shinsengumi! So far I've only come accross Rurouni Kenshin fansites (some with such illegibility that Dagger-sama would scream) but I have learned a lot! It turns out that our local Ninja was an actual spy! Wow... To think, ninjas/spies would exist and have records of them!

So sad what happens to many of them... Mainly Okita-san and Yamanami-san... (What DID Yamanami do anyway?)

Anyway~ it would be fun to compare sources and research JazzLady!

I just realised that it takes me a while to get to my points... Hmm... :tasty:

-ArV

[JazzLady22]

[QUOTE=r2vq]
So sad what happens to many of them... Mainly Okita-san and Yamanami-san... (What DID Yamanami do anyway?)
[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing! *Sniffles*

I'm going to put this in spoiler tags just in case it gives away the end of the series...

[Spoiler] What happened was, Yamanami tried to run away from the Shinsengumi. Hijikata-san sent Okita-san to go get him and bring him back, which he did. When Yamanami got back, Hijikata forced him to commit seppuku... *shudders*[/spoiler]

And as for Okita-san... I really hope they keep historical accuracy in mind here, since he [spoiler] lived for quite a few years after Ikeda-Ya[/spoiler]... according to my sources that is. They could be completely unreliable.

Well, I haven't really found any GOOD websites, so maybe you could share! Welcome to the forum. We needed some new blood around here... so to speak...

[r2vq]

[quote name='JazzLady22][Spoiler'] What happened was, Yamanami tried to run away from the Shinsengumi. Hijikata-san sent Okita-san to go get him and bring him back, which he did. When Yamanami got back, Hijikata forced him to commit seppuku... *shudders*[/spoiler][/quote]
Thanks JazzLady! ^-^

Though... I know what eventually happaned to Yamanami~ I meant what did he do in Shinsengumi? Pece Maker Kurogane says he was one of the commanders, but the sources I read only said he was [I]with[/I] the Shinsengumi since the beginning. Not being an actual commander.

-ArV

[Dan Rugh]

OMG I just watched episode 18 and 19...

[spoiler]I wasn't expecting Ayu-nee to be killed at all. How depressing.[/spoiler]

Is PMK really only going to be 24 episodes? It's just picking up finally.

[r2vq]

[QUOTE=Dan Rugh]OMG I just watched episode 18 and 19...

[spoiler]I wasn't expecting Ayu-nee to be killed at all. How depressing.[/spoiler]

Is PMK really only going to be 24 episodes? It's just picking up finally.[/QUOTE]

[Spoiler]It's alright... We all were. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH AYU-NEEEEEEEEEE[/Spoiler]

And as for the episode number, 24 is what seems to be the opinion of this thread... Though I hope they extend it to 26. Even fourty minutes more is good for me. :D

-ArV

[JazzLady22]

Oh my gosh! I just saw 23, and there are compliments pouring out of my ears, I swear! It's my favorite, favorite episode ever (other than 'Song', of course)! *Gushes* I love it!

That moment with Hijikata and Souji was one of the most well done moments in the series. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a fan girl (although that was a large factor, eh, Dagger?), it's true. [Spoiler]I loved how Kondou, after they were talking business-like for a while, just told him to "go to him." And he was being so sweet and concerned over Okita! I just couldn't stop smiling that whole time. And Toshi [I]smiling[/I] at Tetsu? He's a man of many dimensions, that Hijikata-san. I loved when Tetsu pinched himself! I couldn't believe it either, Tetsu![/spoiler]

[Spoiler] Poor Suzu. I felt so bad for the poor kid. After he wanted to help Yoshida so badly, and then the conservatives shut him out! Then when he came back, Yoshida was already dead, and Suzu just started talking to him, and cleaning him off! *Wail* After losing just about everybody, it was absolutely heartbreaking to see him lose the most important person in his life. I hope that, in the next episode, maybe Saya and Tetsu can help him out? I saw Saya in the preview, thank God. I hoped she wasn't going to get shunted off to the side. [/spoiler]

But one of my favorite parts had to be with Shinpachi, Heisuke, and Sano, when Sano just throws himself on the other two. "If you die, I'll kill you!" I laughed out loud. What a way to lighten the mood! If anyone can, it's those three.

There's so much that they can do with this. I hope they decide to do a second season, or something. There are two seperate parts to the manga-ka: Shinsengumi Imon Peace Maker (which is what PMK is from) and Peace Maker Kurogane, which is still going on. If they decide to make a second season out of the Peace Maker Kurogane manga, I shall be a happy, happy girl.

I have much more to say, but first, I need to watch episode 23 again. Later!

EDIT: By the way, I'm quite satisfied with the way the fight between Susumu and Akesato ended up. And the exchange between Tetsu and Susumu afterwards was so cute!

EDIT #2: (I keep thinking of things to add!) [Spoiler] When Tetsu had beaten Yoshida, and was talking about him killing his parents, Yoshida answered, "What are you talking about?" That really confused me. Yoshida doesn't seem like the type who'd play dumb. There were two things that occured to me at the time:
1) He doesn't remember killing them. After all, killing off defenseless "foreigners" would be a pretty run-of-the-mill thing.
2) It wasn't Yoshida at all, but someone who framed the Choushuu for the whole affair. But there's only one person who might do that, and I refuse to believe it's him. What do you all think? [/spoiler]

[r2vq]

*sniff* I just saw it too...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I loved it~!!

The fight between the Ninjas was OK, but if it ended any other way I would not have liked it at all.

Hijikata and Okita? AWWW. [spoiler]I think my Y[/spoiler]a[spoiler]oi-rific best friend is getting to me -.-U.[/spoiler]

My definate favourite part was when Suzu [spoiler]returned from being [/spoiler]r[spoiler]ejected from the other conservationists and found Yoshida's body.[/spoiler] That was nuts... My heart goes out to you Suzu. You can't not feel sorry for that kid! The way he starts [spoiler]talking to the dead body... "C'mon Sensei we ha[/spoiler]v[spoiler]e to go, the Mibu--ro are coming."[/spoiler] It was so sad... as well as [spoiler]psychotic... He even kept the head!!![/spoiler]

And only one more episode left...
*has to read the manga*

-ArV

Edit:
[QUOTE=JazzLady22]EDIT #2: (I keep thinking of things to add!) [Spoiler] When Tetsu had beaten Yoshida, and was talking about him killing his parents, Yoshida answered, "What are you talking about?" That really confused me. Yoshida doesn't seem like the type who'd play dumb. There were two things that occured to me at the time:
1) He doesn't remember killing them. After all, killing off defenseless "foreigners" would be a pretty run-of-the-mill thing.
2) It wasn't Yoshida at all, but someone who framed the Choushuu for the whole affair. But there's only one person who might do that, and I refuse to believe it's him. What do you all think? [/spoiler][/QUOTE]
I noticed that too. Initially, I brushed it off so I could finish the episode, but after rewatching the episode I have my own theories.
First I'd like to say, why were Tetsu and Tatsu's parents killed?

I spent the last... hour? Two hours? Skipping through the first 11 PMK episodes trying to remember or find a clue. But I can't remember... Anybody help?

-ArV

[Dagger]

Oh.... my god. Watching that was [i]so[/i] emotionally rewarding.

The shinobi have once again proven that they're ridiculously cool. Susumu finally managed to earn [spoiler]Akesato's[/spoiler] respect, which made the [spoiler]ending of their rivalry[/spoiler] seem almost poignant. Their fight scenes are consistently awe-inspiring, and this last one was certainly no exception. GONZO really has a talent for smoothly integrating CG backgrounds and effects. I also thought that [spoiler]Akesato's[/spoiler] hair was beautifully drawn--it makes her seem ghostly and ethereal, which suits her identity very well.

I nearly ended up dancing around the room when I saw Hijikata [spoiler]treating our beloved Okita-san with such gentleness and care. Though I don't know much about Kondou, he's now one of my favorite people in the entire series. I wanted to thank him for allowing and encouraging Toshi to go see Souji. The fact that Hijikata carries Souji's medicine with him wherever he goes--even when they aren't together!--says quite a bit... at least in my opinion. ^_~[/spoiler]

It was so cute how Tetsu pinched himself and then scrambled to get the tea-tray. I love that boy. Of course, there are many other reasons to admire him; his [spoiler]battle with Yoshida showed that he's definitely come into his own. I particularly liked the part when he dives through Yoshida's legs and then whirls around to attack him: it mirrors a sequence in the first episode when Tetsu tries to do the same thing with Okita (and is subsequently disarmed rather brutally). This demonstrates just how much he's improved over the course of the show.[/spoiler]

Lol, the comedian trio is always a riot. [spoiler]I cracked up when Heisuke and Shinpachi began gibbering wordlessly at Sano, trying to explain their injuries.[/spoiler]

Suzu and grown-up Tetsu are the main reasons I want there to be a second season (well, disregarding the fact that PMK just plain rocks). If Suzu does indeed go absolutely bonkers--and episode 23 certainly seems to point in that direction--I'd like to see just how crazy and evil he becomes.

Speaking of Suzu, I think his voice actor did a [i]superb[/i] job in this episode. Anyone else agree?

In answer to your second edit, Beck, [spoiler]Yoshida has probably just forgotten about killing Tetsu's parents. This is significant because it completely devastates the poor boy.... Yoshida has no recollection of how his actions traumautized him and forever changed his life. At the same time, he [i]might[/i] have been playing dumb in order to shock and paralyze the otherwise uninjured Tetsu. If not for Okita, Yoshida could have come out victorious.[/spoiler]

EDIT: [spoiler]Wasn't Tetsu's father attacked because of his willingness to associate with/be influenced by foreigners?[/spoiler]

~Dagger~

[r2vq]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]
EDIT: [spoiler]Wasn't Tetsu's father attacked because of his willingness to associate with/be influenced by foreigners?[/spoiler][/quote]
Right, there we go. Thanks. I was unsure.

[spoiler]The father of the Ichimura brothers was a well-known person in the underground. Ryoma tells us this. For this reason I doubt Yoshida forgot about killing him. I sincerely doubt there was any conspiracy set up by Hijikata, Tetsu would have realized this when he saw either Hijikata or Yoshida.

Also, Yoshida knows who Tetsu is. Note when Yoshida saw Tetsu in Shimabara and the later Episode when they meet again. He knows that Tetsu is the son of the "Peace Maker."

I just re-watched Episode 14 to make sure and according to Tetsu's flashback, the possiblity of Yoshida not knowing Tetsu was there is ruled out. Thus the "What are you talking about?" could not have been in referal to "What are you talking about? I didn't try to leave you alive!"

The only explanation I can come up with for Yoshida's response comes after watching the exchange of words between the two. Yoshida seemed to try to shock Tetsu and distract him to try and win back the fight.

Well~ that or...

Tetsu asked Yoshida "Why are you trying to kill me now?!"

Yoshida could have been going "Well, d'uh. You came and attacked us. What are you talking about?"

But with the line Tetsu asks afterwards, it doesn't fit the flow of the conversation. Of course, who thinks of the flow of a conversation when you have a sword at your neck...

But I've digressed. I guess I agree with Dagger-dono's second point. Yoshida must've been playing dumb to paralyze the boy.[/spoiler]

-ArV

[JazzLady22]

Hmmmmm, I'm thinking you two are right. That was my first impression, anyway.
After all, [spoiler]when Tetsu sees Hijikata or Okita in killing mode, it certainly scares him, but other than that, he's okay. When he sees Yoshida in killing mode, he goes into shock. That should be enough proof there. Plus, from what I understand, the Choushuu had much more anti-foreign sentiments, so they'd be much more harsh to someone associating with foreigners (thanks for clearing that up, Dagger!)[/spoiler]

As for Suzu, I'm thinking the poor kid has finally flipped. After watching the episode a few more times, I happened to notice [spoiler]that he was carrying something away at the end of the episode. Perhaps a little... erm... memento of Yoshida? Heh heh... *insert overused head pun here*[/spoiler] Suzu's voice actor was, indeed, [I]brilliant[/I]. Those lines might not have been nearly as good said by someone else. It was the way his voice was trembling while talking to Yoshida that just got me.

I have a question: you know the pretty song they played at the end of the episode (the one with the violins)? Anyone know what it's called? All the music is pretty good... I wouldn't mind ordering the soundtrack.

By the way, Dagger, I knew you'd love that scene. I was squealing so loud at that point! *Smiles just thinking about it*

[Dagger]

Interesting discussion we have here.... ^_~

Some members of the other forums I frequent have also suggested that [spoiler][i]Hijikata[/i] killed Tetsu's parents. While this isn't a complete impossibility--he looks similar to Yoshida, and reacts strangely when he hears the name "Ichimura" in episode 1, the scenario just doesn't make much sense. I can see how people would believe that, though... Hijikata's brutality (particularly in Yanamani's flashbacks and the part when he's interrogating the shopkeeper) makes such a plot twist difficult to totally rule out.[/spoiler]

But historically speaking, it's quite a stretch. And it definitely isn't an issue in the Peace Maker Kurogane manga, which I've seen enough of to have encountered numerous spoilers. [spoiler]All the same, I find it fascinating to speculate about how the series would change if Hijikata revealed that he murdered the Ichimuras. Tetsu's insanity might end up rivalling Suzu's.[/spoiler]

As I began performing research for my History of Asia term paper, I ran into some interesting Ryoma-related information (which I'll be sure to type up and post sometime later today). If GONZO ever makes a sequel, I suspect that his role will become much more significant and serious.

Beck, I've downloaded the first Peace Maker Kurogane OST. *glances around guiltily* I'll try to see if it includes the song you showed an interest in.

EDIT: o_O .....[spoiler]According those who are more familiar with the manga, Hijikata being the murderer of Tetsu's parents really isn't such a far-fetched idea. Now I need to read it for myself and see whether hints are being dropped in that direction.[/spoiler]

EDIT #2: Wow, my convictions are seriously starting to waver. Here's something I saw at the LiveJournal PMK community.

[quote=canislune][spoiler]I was a bit vague in my post, but what I meant is that I don't think that Yoshida was the killer at all. I think that he and the Choushuu were framed by someone who...

1) Fits the killer's physical profile
2) Recognized the name Ichimura when he first heard it and knew right away that Tetsu had joined the Shinsengumi in order to avenge his parents' murders.
3) Still has a heart and would take the younger son under his 'care' as a penance or form of absolution.

in other words. Hijikata-san ._.

That's the first thing I thought of (and ignored, IGNORED I tell you) when I marathoned through the first 15 episodes when I first watched the show (Spoilers Herein):

- Hijikata seemed startled at the mention of the name "Ichimura" in episode one;
- Yoshida and Hijikata have been described as very similar - this is observed by Tetsu in his conversation with Suzu;
- Okita, being the "child of a demon" has the same eyes as Yoshida, and Hijikata himself;

As for motivation? Hijikata (as well as the Shinsengumi), as a supporter of the shogunate government, may very well have had anti-foreign sentiments. And this could have been well before the shinsengumi were formed - 2 years? Entirely possible - the political stances of people are rarely altered suddenly, so Hijikata and other sympathizers of the government may have, well, believed in what they believed in, and exacted justice as they saw fit. If Daddy Ichimura was of the group of intellectuals (like Sakamoto now) that wanted to open Japan to the world, they may very well have been seen as enemies of the government's political interests and stances.

... Maybe. But man, I wish not. It just screws with Tetsu's brain too much.

Also, when Yoshida calls Tetsu "tainted" at the shimabara, I thought he was referring to the fact that he's of the Shinsengumi. On the other hand, one might also consider that this was a time period in Japan described as one where 100 men may have 100 political stances and ideals, and none of them could really be thought of as "wrong" - Yoshida may have objected to Ichimura's methods as well as the Shinsengumi's, but it doesn't mean he actually killed him (since frankly, I've seen no motive for Yoshida to do so... which makes me suspicious. very suspicious.)
[/spoiler][/quote]

I'd love to hear your reactions.

~Dagger~

[r2vq]

[quote=canislune_via_DaggerIX1][spoiler]
I was a bit vague in my post, but what I meant is that I don't think that Yoshida was the killer at all. I think that he and the Choushuu were framed by someone who...

1) Fits the killer's physical profile
2) Recognized the name Ichimura when he first heard it and knew right away that Tetsu had joined the Shinsengumi in order to avenge his parents' murders.
3) Still has a heart and would take the younger son under his 'care' as a penance or form of absolution.

in other words. Hijikata-san ._.
[/spoiler][/quote]
Well in the first Chapter of the Manga, Tetsu said "I wonder how he found out."
[quote][spoiler]
That's the first thing I thought of (and ignored, IGNORED I tell you) when I marathoned through the first 15 episodes when I first watched the show (Spoilers Herein):

- Hijikata seemed startled at the mention of the name "Ichimura" in episode one;
- Yoshida and Hijikata have been described as very similar - this is observed by Tetsu in his conversation with Suzu;
- Okita, being the "child of a demon" has the same eyes as Yoshida, and Hijikata himself;
[/spoiler][/quote]I recognised the second one the first time around. I recognised the first one after a few more times around.[quote][spoiler]
As for motivation? Hijikata (as well as the Shinsengumi), as a supporter of the shogunate government, may very well have had anti-foreign sentiments. And this could have been well before the shinsengumi were formed - 2 years? Entirely possible - the political stances of people are rarely altered suddenly, so Hijikata and other sympathizers of the government may have, well, believed in what they believed in, and exacted justice as they saw fit. If Daddy Ichimura was of the group of intellectuals (like Sakamoto now) that wanted to open Japan to the world, they may very well have been seen as enemies of the government's political interests and stances.
[/spoiler][/quote]This is where it throws me off. This statement is off the mark.[quote][spoiler]

... Maybe. But man, I wish not. It just screws with Tetsu's brain too much.

Also, when Yoshida calls Tetsu "tainted" at the shimabara, I thought he was referring to the fact that he's of the Shinsengumi. On the other hand, one might also consider that this was a time period in Japan described as one where 100 men may have 100 political stances and ideals, and none of them could really be thought of as "wrong" - Yoshida may have objected to Ichimura's methods as well as the Shinsengumi's, but it doesn't mean he actually killed him (since frankly, I've seen no motive for Yoshida to do so... which makes me suspicious. very suspicious.)
[/spoiler][/quote]

The government would not have wanted a person dead because they wanted to open up Japan. The Shinsengumi and its Commander, would not have wanted it either.

Shinsengumi was Kyoto's Police Force. The Dog's of the Bakufu Government. Most people in who've studied Japanese History should know of the government's stance foreigners at the at the time, but for those who haven't watch Peace Maker and ask yourself what the Choushuu are trying to do, and why they're called rebels.

The Baku Matsu era was started because of the arrival of the Black Ships. The American Government wanted a treaty with the Japanese Government. The Japanese Government felt pressure to agree with the Captain Perry, the advocate for the Americans. This caused turmoil among the Samurai. Many, like the Choushuu, chose to live for the phrase "Revere the Emperor, expell the foreigners." The Shinsengumi, the Dog's of the Bakufu, of course, sided with the government.

Ichimura's father was a Peace Maker, and if his role was the same as Sakamoto (who's usually referred to by his first name, Ryoma) he wanted to bring unity and peace to all of Japan. Hey, just like the Bakufu and the Shinsengumi! The only reason Ryoma was sought out for was because... he's sooo funny! :hippy: Er.. The only reason Ryoma was sought out by the Shinsengumi was because Ryoma believed the only way to true peace was through to get rid of the current government and to create a new government with national laws and a new economy.

I have found no evidence saying Ichimura's father is the same way. All he's referred to as is a Peace Maker. The only evidence as to which side of this issue Ichimura was on is the fact that Yoshida stated that Ichimura's son was "tainted." Although this is a subject for yet another debate, the phrase can be explained simply as Yoshida recognising Ichimura's son being the continuation of the Ichimura's life and Ichimura's possible foreigner driven ideals, thus showing the conflict between Peace Maker Ichimura's and Yoshida's ideals.

-ArV

Post Script~
After the time it took me to write this, I started thinking from canisline's point of view. And I do find very little evidence pointing towards Yoshida... If Yoshida didn't kill the Peace Maker, he would never have met Tetsunosuke prior to Shimabara. Yoshida's only motive for pointing out Tetsu at Shimabara would've been his Shinsengumi uniform, and afterwards his attack would've been because of Tetsu's closeness with Suzu...

But for this to happen... Why did Tetsunosuke react like so when Yoshida came about? Why did he not react like so when Toushizo was introduced? Note that in the anime flashbacks, a mouth could be seen on the killer, though in the manga, the perp. is wearing something over his face showing only his eyes.

[Dagger]

Thank you for that wonderfully well-thought-out rebuttal, r2vq.

In all honesty, I would not have expected PMK's plotline to yield this kind of debate. I think it's actually amazing that such a seemingly straightforward anime could possess these hidden depths. Unlike some series, Peace Maker Kurogane doesn't make a point of being mysterious and complex--it just [i]has[/i] certain ambiguities, and the viewer can decide whether or not he wants to explore them.

I've noticed that the show has attracted a wide range of admirers as well as detractors. Many people criticize it for being largely composed of filler (which I think is a pretty ridiculous assertion); others watch it only for its violence or humor. The fact is, one can approach PMK from many angles, and various fans may experience it differently.

But before I ramble on, here's a quick summary of what I learned about Ryoma. Because I don't know very much about this period of Japanese history, I found it quite enlightening. :whoops:

Ryoma began as something of a political fanatic, one who was unconditionally opposed to any contact with foreigners. His fencing academy emphasized the idea of national purity, so it makes sense that Ryoma would advocate keeping Japan's borders closed. Eager to help defend against the barbarian peril, he set out to assassinate alleged traitors. Katsu Rintaro, the bakufu's naval specialist, was one of his first targets.

Katsu wanted Japan to embrace outside influences and believed that doing this was necessary for the nation's continued independence. Unlike Ryoma, he had visited the United States and thus knew exactly how powerful the American military truly was. When Ryoma came to execute him, he stayed calm, explaining his main reason for supporting openness: Japan could not resist the foreigners unless it was capable of emulating their strength.

Ryoma became an instant convert to Katsu's ideology. He later assisted in establishing diplomatic relationships between the Choshu, Tosa and Satsuma clans, all of whom wished to challenge the bakufu. His political writings also had a strong influence on the Charter Oath of the Meiji Restoration (which effectively ended Tokugawa rule).

Yet Sakamoto [spoiler]died before the end of the bakufu. Guess who killed him? That's right.... members of the Shinsengumi.[/spoiler]

~Dagger~

[JazzLady22]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]
Yet Sakamoto [spoiler]died before the end of the bakufu. Guess who killed him? That's right.... members of the Shinsengumi.[/spoiler]
[/QUOTE]

*Gasps* Wow!

What you said was absolutely right, Dagger. This all did seem so straightforward at first, but once you ask a seemingly simple question about, say, the characters motives, this much discussion springs up! (I'm almost sorry I brought up the topic at hand, though; it's harder to be in denial when you're discussing something... hehe kidding)

I'd love to give a historically accurate arguement like you two... unfortunately, I do not know half as much as either of you :confused:

Either way, there's a question I have. If Ryouma was so dilligently opposed to any foreigners, why does he spout random English like a fountain in PMK? Just lack of research on the creators' part, or they needed comic relief?

[QUOTE=DaggerIX1]
I've noticed that the show has attracted a wide range of admirers as well as detractors. Many people criticize it for being largely composed of filler (which I think is a pretty ridiculous assertion); others watch it only for its violence or humor.
[/QUOTE]

I've noticed that PMK usually does two things to a viewer. They can either: A) Rabidly love it, and become a big fan, or B) Dislike it, whine endlessly about the fillers and "historical innacuracy." Surprisingly enough, I found a whole group of people who's main annoyance about the show was either that Souji was too girlish or they "totally screwed up Saitou." Yes, most of the haters are actually die-hard Rurouni Kensihn fans. What I find funny is, most of the people who count this show as a favorite are Kenshin fans too! Anime does crazy things to people.

But let's find a way to swing this back around to the topic at hand. After all we've discussed, [spoiler] who do you think more likely killed Tetsu's parents: Yoshida and the Choushuu or Hijikata and the Shinsengumi? I hate to say it, but the evidence overwhemingly points to Hijikata, while there isn't much evidence to say that Yoshida could have done it. But there's still so much that doesn't fit with that... plus I refuse to believe it, of course.[/spoiler]

[r2vq]

[quote name='JazzLady22']Either way, there's a question I have. If Ryouma was so dilligently opposed to any foreigners, why does he spout random English like a fountain in PMK? Just lack of research on the creators' part, or they needed comic relief?[/quote]
DaggerIX1-dono explained this in her second and third last paragraphs.

[QUOTE=DaggerIX1]Unlike Ryoma, (Katsu) had visited the United States and thus knew exactly how powerful the American military truly was. When Ryoma came to execute him, he stayed calm, explaining his main reason for supporting openness: Japan could not resist the foreigners unless it was capable of emulating their strength.

Ryoma became an instant convert to Katsu's ideology.[/QUOTE]

As for who do I think killed father Ichimura? I hate to say it, but I now have to agree. [spoiler]There is so much evidence pointing towards Hijikata and the Shinsengumi.

My arguments...

- Ichimura was a Peace Maker and loyal to the government who wanted to open up Japan. Basically the Shinsengumi's best friend.

Counter - There is no evidence to say he wanted to open up Japan. He was like Ryoma in acceptance of learning other cultures to make Japan stronger. For all we know, he might have been a Loyalist like the Choshuu who wanted the borders closed. Far from being Shinsengumi's best friend...

- The Ichimura joined the Shinsengumi for revenge. Why would they join their father's nemesis, even to avenge their death?

Counter - The Ichimura brothers joined the Shinsengumi because they assumed the killer of their father was of the Choshuu clan. Had the brothers known that the Shinsengumi murdered their parents, they would have joined the Choshuu clan.

That being said, Ryoma seemed to think that since the Ichimura brothers were the sons of Father Ichimura, they would have the same motives as him, revolutionising the government. Why would he think this unless said father shared his ideas with Ryoma? Also note that Tatsunosuke seemed to have the same opinions and reactions for Ryoma's ideals as he did with his fathers... hmm...[/spoiler]

-ArV

I seem to write a lot of long posts on this. Sorry guys.

[Dagger]

You shouldn't apologize for writing long posts! This thread is my [i]precious[/i] (as Gollum would say) and it warms my heart to see it thrive. Besides, your replies are consistently interesting and educational. *sparkles*

Now, I have a slightly different sort of question. Is episode 23 the first time we find out that [spoiler]Akesato is a foreigner? I didn't even consider that tidbit a revelation until other fans started treating it as such. For some reason, I feel as though either she or Susumu alluded to it earlier in the show (much, much earlier--perhaps shortly after they first met).

I would assume that Akesato is from a nearby Asian country, although her hair color seems to hint at her being European. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I have trouble imagining what might drive a Western woman (at least during PMK's time period) to become a shinobi/geisha, especially one so skilled in both departments.

Blonde hair may not mean much, seeing how as Tetsu and Shinpachi are redheads, and Suzu's hair is white. If Akesato is indeed supposed to be Asian, I'd like to know where she was born and where she grew up. She must not have any traces of an accent.[/spoiler]

Maybe the manga reveals more about her past...?

~Dagger~