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Gaming PlayStation Portable or Nintendo DS?

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Guest ScirosDarkblade
[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]Wait a minute. You may want to re-read what I said. I said that the two machines are not [i]directly [/i]competing. They aren't. They are going to be targeted at completely different audiences.

Does a Mercedes Benz S-Class compete with a mid-range Hyundai? No. They're both cars...and the two dealerships might be right next door to one another. But this doesn't mean that they directly compete.

The exact same principle can be applied to DS/PSP. PSP is a much more high-end machine, which Sony hopes will carve out its own top-end niche in the market.

DS is more of a mid-range product. It will be more expensive and more fully-featured than GBA, but it won't be a "multimedia" type machine, like PSP. And the pricing will reflect that.

So, this is what I'm trying to say. Yes, [i]of course[/i] there will be some overlap. That's a given. And I've mentioned that before -- there's always some level of overlapping in terms of target market. But make no mistake that the two machines are aimed at very different ends of the market, which is something that dictates their design and pricing as well.[/color][/QUOTE]

You contradict yourself. You say they're aimed at "completely different audiences" and then you say "there will be some overlap." The latter is correct, of course, and that's the point. In that overlap, there is direct competition. And your likening of this situation to a Mercedes S-class vs. a Hyundai is improper, because there's NO overlap in that situation. The DS and PSP are both high-end handhelds compared to the GBA, and while one will probably cost 1.5 times as much as the other, that's not the same kind of price difference as with cars, and it doesn't have as much of a bearing on the purchase.

The point is there will be some direct competition. Mostly it won't be perhaps, but there will be some. That's what I said. Maybe you should re-read MY post.

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[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']You contradict yourself. You say they're aimed at "completely different audiences" and then you say "there will be some overlap." The latter is correct, of course, and that's the point. In that overlap, there is direct competition. And your likening of this situation to a Mercedes S-class vs. a Hyundai is improper, because there's NO overlap in that situation. The DS and PSP are both high-end handhelds compared to the GBA, and while one will probably cost 1.5 times as much as the other, that's not the same kind of price difference as with cars, and it doesn't have as much of a bearing on the purchase.[/quote]
[color=#707875]Sciros...there is no contradiction in anything I've said. The two consoles [i]are [/i]aimed at different audiences. But there [i]will [/i]be some overlap. How much detail do you want me to use to describe this reality?

I mean, PlayStation 2 and GameCube are a similar situation. Those two machines are aimed at different target markets in general. But obviously, despite that, the two machines still experience some market overlap. This is a factor that helps to contribute to shifts in market share as well.

GameCube is generally targeted towards younger audiences -- at least, this has historically been its target market. PlayStation 2 has been targeted towards "high end" gamers, and non-gamers who have an interest in multimedia-based hardware (ie: buying a DVD player and a game console in one).

But this doesn't suggest that the two won't experience some level of overlap. There are obviously some games that are going to appeal to both audiences, and there's obviously some level of competition there.

Secondly, in regard to cars...you are missing the point. Obviously you can't compare a price difference between cars and game consoles. But that's not the point -- I'm talking in [i]relative [/i]terms.

In addition, we aren't talking about GBA. We are talking about PSP and DS. Yes, in relation to GBA, [i]both [/i]machines could be considered "high end". But in the context of the discussion, we are comparing PSP and DS to one another.

So, this is all I'm trying to point out -- that there are nuances in the market that are being ignored here. Nintendo and Sony will explain this on a frequent basis, it's just a reality of the industry.[/color]

[quote=ScirosDarkblade]
The point is there will be some direct competition. Mostly it won't be perhaps, but there will be some. That's what I said. Maybe you should re-read MY post.[/QUOTE]
[color=#707875]Yes, there will be [i]some[/i]. I never disputed that. This is why I asked you to re-read my post -- because you were arguing against a point that I never made. lol

The point was being made earlier that these two systems should be compared directly. And as I said, that's fine. But I was just making the point that the discussion should be prefaced by the fact that Nintendo and Sony [i]are not [/i]intending to compete for the same market segments with these platforms. Obviously there will be some overlap, but I [i]already [/i]stated that earlier on. So at this point I'm only repeating stuff that we've already established.[/color]

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PSP for me simply because i have grown up on the sony franchise and im not really all that impressed with anything nintendos come out with since the n-64. from the screenshots it looks like the DS has the exact same graphics as the gameboy ADV. And, it also will probably occur that the PSP has much more in depth games than the DS. Personally i think it would be wicked awesome to play Splinter Cell on an airplane flight, or race people in Gran Turismo. And then, of course, theres Instant Messenger ^_^

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Nintendo Ds is cheaper then the psp so less work for me!
The best series of games ever Metroid will be realesed!
Pic chat is ace its just like MSN messager except portable!
Touch screen has so many possibilitys like maps on Metroid Prime Hunters it will be easy to access and won't go away from the game play
errmmm... Nintendo have the best games like Metroid!
Okay thats it
Peace out all

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Guest Vash331
oh yeah....i forgot you could comunicate wirelessly through 2 Nintendo DS's, that'll be pretty cool. i can show all my friends my funny little drawings of the teacher in class muahahahahahaha....ahaha...that won't be all i use it for though if i get one, i'm just saying it'll be funny, you think so right, RIGHT?! :(

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[font=Verdana][color=blue]Beyond any shadow of a doubt, Nintendo DS. There are far to many reasons to list for my choice so I'll name the main ones. First of all, nothing is really drawing me to the PSP. There is nothing all too amazing about it especially when compared to the DS. The DS offers two screens, one of which is a touch screen, wireless multi-player gaming (16 locally and future support for unlimited over the internet). That's rite - over the internet. It will support all 802.11 standards as well as the Nintendo communication system which means if you have a wireless LAN, you can play online. Finally, the ability to send messages (like AIM) during gameplay. One screen can be used for gameplay while the other can be used to chat (for example if you're out of the current round for some reason). I'll admit that the PSP has some nice looking graphics but if that's the entire selling point, so does DS but with more and better features.[/color][/font]

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I would say DS aswell. It just called my name whenever I first heard about it. Two screens just blew my mind for a second. PSP does look cool, but all I have heard about it is that it has really good graphics and it can't play music. That is cool and all, but what else? I have also heard that PSP isn't going to be getting a lot of games, so that is also a negative. DS looks way more fun and interesting to me. If I could have both, I would do that, but so far I am saving up for the DS.

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[quote name='Falkon']from the screenshots it looks like the DS has the exact same graphics as the gameboy ADV. [/quote]

What screens have you seen? It's beyond N64 in polygon pushing power. Definitely well beyond the GBA's powers.

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[color=#0000ff][QUOTE][color=#0000ff]It will support all 802.11 standards as well as the Nintendo communication system which means if you have a wireless LAN, you can play online. [/color][/QUOTE] [/color]

[color=black]Well just thought I'd mention that both PSP and DS have WiFi using the 802.11 standards. As for the Nintendo communication system, I've never heard of it. i'd like to hear what it is.[/color]

[color=#0000ff][QUOTE][color=#0000ff]Finally, the ability to send messages (like AIM) during gameplay. One screen can be used for gameplay while the other can be used to chat (for example if you're out of the current round for some reason). [/color][/QUOTE] [/color]

If any games do this, they'll be rare. For instance, Nintendo has publically stated that no games made by them will go online, but will use the WiFi for communication between 2 DS' near each other.

[color=#0000ff][QUOTE][color=#0000ff]I'll admit that the PSP has some nice looking graphics but if that's the entire selling point, so does DS but with more and better features.[/color][/QUOTE] [/color]

[color=black]It also has a lot more power (for things like better AI, larger worlds, etc.), a storage medium with more then 14 times the space of DS' cards, and if you count up the 2 systems features 1 by one, they'd be about equal.[/color]

[color=black][QUOTE]PSP does look cool, but all I have heard about it is that it has really good graphics and it can't play music.[/QUOTE][size=1]Have you been living under a rock? It can play music, in addition to videos via UMD and Memory Stick. Want a full list of the things PSP offers? [url="http://www.us.playstation.com/pressreleases.aspx?id=207"]http://www.us.playstation.com/pressreleases.aspx?id=207[/url][/size]

[QUOTE]I have also heard that PSP isn't going to be getting a lot of games, so that is also a negative.[/QUOTE][size=1]The most recent list of both systems total games, credit to Golden1Sun1Fighter1 on the GameFAQs PSP board:[/size]

[size=1]PSP

AC Formula Front
AI series Igo
AI series Mahjong
AI series Shougi
Ape Escape
ATV Offroad Fury
Axel Impact International
BBG
Burnout
Crazy Racing: Kart Rider
Darstalkers Chronicles
Death, Jr.
Derby
Devil May Cry
Dokodemo Issho
Dino Dini / DC-Studios Game
Dynasty Warriors
Fighting Spirits
Formula 1 ?04
Free Running
Frogger
The Gaghary
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
Gran Turismo 4 Mobile
Harvest Moon series
Hard Corps
Hot Shots Golf
Infected
Johnny Whatever
Legend of the River King series
Makai Wars
MediEvil
Mercury
Metal Gear Acid
Metal Shell
Milo and the Rainbow Nasties
Mojipittan
NBA Shootout 2005
NBA Street
Need For Speed Underground
NFL Street
NHL Faceoff 2005
Pilot Ni Narou series
PoPoLoCrois
Powerful Pro Yakyuu series
Project S
PSP Racing
Puyo Pop Fever
R.A.D. Game
Ren-Goku: The Tower of Purgatory
Ridge Racer
Rockstar Game (x2)
RS Revolution
Sarugee
Spider-man 2
Shinten Makai
Socom
Sticky Balls
Sunrise Interactive's New simulation game
Syphon Filter: Logan?s Shadow
Tales of Eternia
Talkman
Ten no Kaji, Chi no mo
Team Ninja Game
Technique Cute (working title),
TGM-K (working title)
This Is Football 2005
Tiger Woods PGA Tour
Tony Hawk's Underground 2
Twisted Metal Tour
Viewtiful Joe
Vulcanus Online
World Soccer Winning Eleven series
Wipeout Pure
WRC
Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim
Zero Hour
Untitled FPS from Konami

75 games

Breath of Fire (unconfirmed)



DS

Animal Crossing DS [Nintendo]
Bomberman DS [Hudson Soft]
Buzz [Nintendo]
Castlevania DS [Konami]
Cerulean Dreams [MezCo Studios]
Dark Reflections [MezCo Studios]
Dragon Ball Z [Banpresto]
Dragon Ball Z [Bandai]
Dragon Quest Monsters [Square Enix]
Dynasty Warriors [KOEI]
Egg Monster Heroes [Square Enix]
Final Fantasy: Crystal Cronicals [Square Enix]
Frogger [Konami]
Gyakuten Saiban (aka Reversal of Judgment)[Capcom]
Mario Kart DS [Nintendo]
Megaman Battle Network DS [Capcom]
Metroid Prime: Hunters [Nintendo NST]
Mobile Suit Gundam Seed [Bandai]
Monster Rancher [Tecmo]
Mr. Driller [Namco]
Need for Speed [Electronic Arts]
Nintendogs [Nintendo]
One Piece [Bandai]
Pac n' Roll [Namco]
Pac Pix [Namco]
Pictochat [Nintendo]
Project Rub [SEGA]
Rayman [Ubisoft]
Sonic DS [SEGA]
Spider-Man 2 [Vicarious Visions, Activision]
SpongeBob SquarePants [THQ]
Super Mario 64x4 [Nintendo]
Super Mario Bros. DS [Nintendo]
Team Ninja DS Project
Ultimate Brain/Card Games [Cosmigo, Telegames]
Urbz: The Sims in the city [Electronic Arts]
Viewtiful Joe [Capcom]
Wario Ware DS [Nintendo]
Yu-Gi-Oh Nightmare Troubadour [Konami]
Zelda DS [Nintendo]

From Software - multiple titles in development
Hudson - multiple titles in development
Majesco - One title in development
Namco - Unnamed RPG
VU Games - One title in development

45 - 53 Games

Silent Hill DS [Konami] (unconfirmed)[/size]

[size=1]In fact, there were more announced for PSP a few days ago that he hasn't added to the list yet![/size]

[size=1][QUOTE]
What screens have you seen? It's beyond N64 in polygon pushing power. Definitely well beyond the GBA's powers.
[/QUOTE]Although DS is far beyond GBA in power, based on the "leaked" specs (Nintendo still hasn't released full specs, so this is all there is to go on), DS pushes less polygons than N64, and is less powerful by a bit. However because the screen resolution is much smaller than N64's, there is less pixles to manage, and because the screens are smaller things [i]look[/i] better.[/size][/color]

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I've not heard Nintendo say they wouldn't support wireless LAN gaming through a wireless router... In fact, that was one of the first ideas Miyamoto spoke of -- connecting it to routers. They did, however, say they wouldn't be developing anything to allow the DS to go on the internet, which seemed to mean more like browsing and downloading random stuff. I could be reading it wrong, but that's now how I understood it.

As for the power of the thing, who knows. The only real comparison is Mario 64 to Mario 64x4. The DS one is obviously pushing more polygons (four characters, all higher counts than Mario 64). But considering how old Mario 64 was and how much the N64 was pushed after that, who can say for sure.

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[QUOTE]They did, however, say they wouldn't be developing anything to allow the DS to go on the internet, which seemed to mean more like browsing and downloading random stuff. I could be reading it wrong, but that's now how I understood it.[/QUOTE]
Ah that could be it, however after seeing Iwata's comment that "Customers do not want online games", I'd say it's unlikely to see online games for the DS (especially when looking at GCN's 3 online games).

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[color=blue][i]Nintendo[/i] may not plan to make anything to go online bot don't forget that not all DS games will be made by Nintendo themselves. Other companies may support the feature. The other thing that I found interesting that I forgot to mention before was the fact that there are two game slots. One for the new stuff and one for everything from GBA and before. I got my information [url="http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2432473&sourceid=1500000000000000624060"]here[/url] so that's what I'm basing everything I say on. My point with the online games was not trying to say that customers want it, just to say that it may be supported. I think it would be an interesting feature to be able to play multi-player games online. This is just an assumption from reading but it may not be an "online" game. It may just give you the ability to play multi-player games (like Four Swords for instance, though this is just an example) [i]over the internet[/i]. I could very easily be wrong with this assumption and if anyone has any fact to disprove me, please share it with me. I'd like to gather as much information as I can on the subject.[/color]
[color=#0000ff][/color]
[color=#0000ff]I'm also not saying that the PSP doesn't look like it might be good (especially after hearing the wireless support for it as well). I'm just saying that I think DS will be better.[/color]

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[font=Arial]Well I posted this earlier in this topic, but to quote myself:[/font]

[font=Arial][QUOTE]
[font=Arial]Uh, I'd hate to break it to you but... although DS will be compatible with GBA games (as it has a highly incorporated ARM7 processor), it will not be compatible with GB/C games (as it lacks the Z80 processor that the GB/C used). The Z80 is what would make the compatibility possible, but it's not there, so you'll have to settle with just GBA backwards compatibility. On top of that, the DS doesn't have the ext. port that the GBA had, so no linking with the old games.[/font]
[/QUOTE] [/font]

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[font=Verdana][color=blue]Oh ok. This I didn't know. I didn't see your post before. I just have one question about linking with the old games though. Do you think they will make it so you can link and play multi-player with the old games wirelessly? Just wondering.[/color][/font]

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[font=Verdana][size=2]Depends. They might, but I've seen no plans of this anywhere. Even if it could, it would mean only being able to link GBA games on your DS with another DS.[/size][/font]

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[color=blue]That's a good point. You do lose the ability to link a DS to a GBA. It would still be a nice feature though. I don't remember now, which one did you say you would pick? Oh and by the way, when I mentioned sending messages (like AIM), I didn't mean actually using the AIM service. It is just like direct text messages between the players in the game.[/color]

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I am going to be buying the PSP, but I'm going to expand my games for my current systems first. There are a lot of killer app games coming out for PS2 this year, and I'm going to get some of those first, and wait for the first price drop in the PSP before I go out and buy.

As for the DS, I'm still on the fence of whether or not to buy one. I have yet to see any games that truly make the 2 screens a revolutionary gaming idea, or do anything that can't already be done better on other systems (having a bigger map means nothing). The touch screen is a little more promicing, but the stylus could get lost, and I don't really know how well the idea of having 1 had on the system and 1 in the air will work (especially for a handheld). Basically I'm holding out until some games that intrest me arrive (I've even managed to come up with some great game ideas for the DS, although 1 would require more power then what the DS offers). I'm also trying to figure out what kind of Dragon Quest Monsters game is going to be on the DS; one like the first 2, or one like the more recent Caravan Hearts *Shudder*. I might get it a ways in the future, but until then I'll be happy with a PSP in one pocket and my good ol' GBC in the other (if there's any confusion, yes I do have a GBA but I have a lot more and better GBC games that don't play as well on it).

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[FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=RoyalBlue] [SIZE=1]DS all the way. Theres too many strikes against sony for me. For one sony doesnt make the most reliable optical drives to say the least. Anyone care to buy a system for 300 dollars then have it break a year or so later? :rolleyes:

Second sony has this omni-machine theory that they seem to keep trying to realize by making a machine thats mediocre at alot of things and fails to excel at any of them (PSX anyone? :sleep: ) I like a gaming machine thats for playing games...Not some kinda swiss army knife. While im sure the PSP will be better then the nokia QD (shudders at the thought of that thing) I still think its gonna be overly complex things that I could buy better in a seperate device (Thats like when ppl said they didnt like that gamcube couldnt play DVDs...The PS2 is as good of a DVD player as the PSOne is a CD player :laugh: ).

And ofcourse theres the games. While sony has announced some Im not really excited about any of them and the fact that Sony has released any good screenshoots that ive seen of the PSP in action makes me worry. The fact that they've tried to pass off doctored PS2 pics as PSP screens is...creepy...

Sigh anyway ill be going DS thank you...One last plus backwards compatability so ill still be able to play all my GBA 2d goodness as well as all the DS goodies.

PSP=Overrated and Overhyped :p

End Rant. :devil: [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

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[font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=#4169e1][QUOTE] [font=Century Gothic][size=1][color=#4169e1]While sony has announced some Im not really excited about any of them and the fact that Sony has released any good screenshoots that ive seen of the PSP in action makes me worry. The fact that they've tried to pass off doctored PS2 pics as PSP screens is...creepy...[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE] [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=1][color=black][size=2]First of all there's this: [url="http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2004/07/12/103,1089638299,28513,0,0.html"]http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2004/07/12/103,1089638299,28513,0,0.html[/url][/size][/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=2]These are pictures taken at the Playstation Metting. There have also been pictures and videos of people playing the Tales of Eternia demo at E3.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=2]Second, there have been MANY pictures of actual PSP games. It's a very powerful system, and if you mistook it's images for PS2 images it's your own fault. The reason a lot of the games shown at E3 were on screens and not on the PSP was (A) at that point the only development was done on emulator development kits and (B) because the plan for the PSP was always to show off the hardware at E3 and show off the software at the Tokyo Game Show (this september).[/size][/font]

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[color=blue]That link was helpful. Although I couldn't read a single word on the page, the pictures really showed some promising results from the PSP. I had only seen one picture of an actual game being played up to this point and it looked good too but some of these really do look great. Know of any sites where I can find pictures of the DS in action (for comparison purposes)?[/color]

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gameboy.ign.com

Thats a good place to go to find images of DS in action, but you may have to do a little digging as the images and videos are from E3 in May.

Oh, and about the DS. Does anyone else find it odd that Nintendo decided to go with the design very similar to that of the Game & Watch? [url="http://weblogs.jupiterresearch.com/analysts/laszlo/archives/game-n-watch.jpg"]http://weblogs.jupiterresearch.com/analysts/laszlo/archives/game-n-watch.jpg[/url]

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[font=Verdana][color=blue]Thanks for the link. I'll go check it out. As for your Game and Watch question, could they have done it on purpose? They brought back Mr. Game and Watch in Smash Bros. Melee after all. They might have gotten the design for DS from the Game and Watch.[/color][/font]

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[font=Verdana][color=blue]Oh ok. Guess I just sort of misunderstood the question. Though if you think about, it isn't really that odd. They did make the new GBA in the style of the NES controller so it isn't all that uncommon for them to do something like that again.[/color][/font]

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[color=indigo]Well, they did say that they're going to be working on a new design and name for the Nintendo DS, so the final design may not be as similar to the old, two-screen Game & Watch systems. I'm really curious about what they'll come up with, though I really can't think of a better design to accommodate both screens, so I don't find it too odd that the current DS design is similar to the old Game & Watch systems. Myself, I'm kind of wondering if they're not just going to make the case a little more stylish and leave the overall layout of things the same.[/color]

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