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[size=2]I think there are two types of marriage; spiritual marriage and legal marriage. Despite how similar these may seem, many distinctions can be made between them. First, let's define them (loosely). A legal marriage is a marriage ceremony performed and recognized by the state. A spiritual marriage is a mutual recognition of a bond of love between two people. Based on these definitions, I have many questions.[/size]
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[size=2]If two people are legally married, but neither feel [i]any[/i] spiritual bond, is it [b]morally[/b] wrong to cheat on your husband/wife? The legal repercussions are obvious and undeniable.[/size]
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[size=2]If two people consider themselves spiritually married, but are not legally married, is it morally wrong to engage in acts that a legally married couple would engage in? This may be more of a question for people of a faith concerned with chastity/virginity.[/size]
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[size=2]If two people are spiritually married, how do you think a legal marriage would affect the bond between those two people? Personal experiences may be useful, but input from inexperienced people is not unwelcome.[/size]
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[size=2]If two people become legally married, how do you think it would affect the spiritual relationship between the two people? Arranged marriages may fall under this category.[/size]
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[size=2]Lastly, what is the purpose of legal/spiritual marriage, and what do they mean to you?[/size]
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[size=2]Note that I have [b]not[/b] provided my own answers to these questions, implicitly or explicitly. Perhaps I will if some discussion is generated, but opening this with my own controversial opinions may spawn a debate that quickly veers from the original topic.[/size]
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[quote]If two people are legally married, but neither feel [i]any[/i] spiritual bond, is it [b]morally[/b] wrong to cheat on your husband/wife? The legal repercussions are obvious and undeniable.[/quote]
Morally? I don't really know, but I don't think that's all that relevant, anyway. But I think adultery (in any form) is a bad idea, simply due to potential health issues (ignoring the hurt, embarrassment, and emotional strain one would cause for their significant other).

I remember watching a special on prostitution in the early 1900s, in New York, and how married men would visit the Red Light District and buy a hooker for the evening. Incidentally, that's where the name "hooker" came from. One street in NYC where prostitutes frequented was called Hooker Street. The name just kind of stuck, I guess.

But those 15 years or so were the cause of a massive epidemic of STDs, so I think that's probably the biggest reason not to cheat...health issues. Interesting side-note: apparently, the FBI was originally created as a counter to this explosion of prostitution.

[quote]If two people consider themselves spiritually married, but are not legally married, is it morally wrong to engage in acts that a legally married couple would engage in? This may be more of a question for people of a faith concerned with chastity/virginity.[/quote]
Again, I don't think morality really plays any part here. I think it's an antiquated system of control, a relic from ancient damnation protocols.

That said, I don't think [i]rampant[/i] pre-marital loving is a good idea, particularly when those involved are very young, because they have virtually no way of supporting themselves should something break (that is, of course, if they're using something).

I've transcribed reports of 14-year-old girls going into their third trimester. Morality aside, it's just sad to see someone so young being burdened with such a dramatic change in her responsibilities.

It's not that I'm critical of pre-marital sex...far from it. I'd be a hypocrite if I were to criticize those who have had sex before marriage. But it has to be handled responsibly, and even just from my 3 years as a medical transcriptionist, I can confidently say most of the time, it's not being handled responsibly.

[quote]If two people are spiritually married, how do you think a legal marriage would affect the bond between those two people? Personal experiences may be useful, but input from inexperienced people is not unwelcome.[/quote]
I don't think it would cheapen that bond, if that's what you're asking. If anything, I think it would just make that bond stronger, because these two people have already connected on a deeper level, and a legal marriage would show that others appreciate that. I think legal marriages would help people feel more secure in their relationship.

[quote]Lastly, what is the purpose of legal/spiritual marriage, and what do they mean to you?[/quote]
It's like this:

Spiritual marriage: promise ring in a ceremony recognized by the two people.

Legal marriage: wedding band in a ceremony recognized by others.

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[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=RED]Does having a sexual relationship with someone automatically created a spiritual marriage relationship? I think so.

I think that people not ready to deal with the responsibilities of a sexual relationship and what may come of it, shouldn't have a sexual relationship in the first place. Young or old.

I don't think people should have a sexual relationship with someone they don't want to be spiritually bonded with in the first place. Young or old.

People shouldn't legally marry someone that they they don't want to be spiritually bonded with. I think that once they have a sexual relationship...they are spiritually married.

If either of those spiritually bonded persons commits adultery...in my opinion they have already divorced the person they were spiritually bonded with before. It's a spiritual contract. If they continue the sexual relationship with the first person they were bonded with after that...they turn that person into "one" of "their" adulterous spouses. Even though that spouse is innocent...you have laid your guilt upon them.

Marriage is a contract of unity. Divorce is the breaking of that contract. Spiritually or legally.

I believe that two people become one in a sexual relationship.

If you sleep with prostitutes...you become a prostitute. If you sleep with your *now divorced wife* after that...you make her "your" prostitute. She is innocent. You are the guilty one. If she gets a disease from you... you're to blame.

I also think there are other things beside adultery that can break a spiritual marriage, but I don't have time for that now.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

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[COLOR=#004a6f]Personally, I feel that a proper marriage should be both spiritual and legal. You should not engage in sexual acts with someone if you're not legally married to them. If you love them, then well, MARRY THEM! Then sexual acts would be both legitimate and have no harmful effects. If you're "legally" married to someone, but don't love them, don't cheat on them. Divorce them, simple as that.[/COLOR]

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[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]Personally, I feel that a proper marriage should be both spiritual and legal. You should not engage in sexual acts with someone if you're not legally married to them. If you love them, then well, MARRY THEM! Then sexual acts would be both legitimate and have no harmful effects.
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=RED]There are circumstances where legal marriage is not possible. Does this make a spiritual marriage less real? In what way does not having a piece of paper that says you are legally married make your love wrong? Which legal are you talking about? Religious, state or both? And what would a piece of paper have to do with harmful sexual effects?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']If you're "legally" married to someone, but don't love them, don't cheat on them. Divorce them, simple as that.[/COLOR][/quote]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=RED]I agree with this. Even if you're not
legally married ...there should be a knowing and permanent separation first by both people. If you're not sure about being permanently separated or married to a person, then I think you should abstain from sex altogether until you get your head straight.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

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Magnonimy is a sign of trust and devotion. As a Male with Male Hormones, it is the ultimate sacrifice to tell all those Male Hormones to shut up and only focus on one woman because I'm in love with her. Since I seem to think about sex every five seconds, I can verify the difficulty of the task.

I've thought about sex twice since I started typing.

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Marriage is the spiritual union of a man and a woman becoming ?one? in the eyes of God.

[quote name='Afire][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=RED]Does having a sexual relationship with someone automatically created a spiritual marriage relationship? I think so. [/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]

Nope. I do not agree with this at all. I think a love and dedication, or marriage, to that union must be established before sex. Sex is the consummation of that relationship. Basically, it?s the icing if Cake?s the marriage.
[QUOTE=Afire][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=RED]
I think that people not ready to deal with the responsibilities of a sexual relationship and what may come of it, shouldn't have a sexual relationship in the first place. Young or old.

I don't think people should have a sexual relationship with someone they don't want to be spiritually bonded with in the first place. Young or old.

People shouldn't legally marry someone that they they don't want to be spiritually bonded with. I think that once they have a sexual relationship...they are spiritually married. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Well I agree with the issue of responsibility. Marriage is far more than sex. Actually equating marriage with sex trivializes it, as far as I?m concerned.

[QUOTE=Afire][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=1][COLOR=RED]
I believe that two people become one in a sexual relationship.

If you sleep with prostitutes...you become a prostitute. If you sleep with your *now divorced wife* after that...you make her "your" prostitute. She is innocent. You are the guilty one. If she gets a disease from you... you're to blame.
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

STD and sex tends to be an overwhelmingly mutual choice. I have the same pity for teen pregnancy or the contraction STD?s (I say SEXUALLY transmitted diseases) as I would on a smoker. If there were some honestly realistic self-control, STDs could easily be controlled.

I agree with Alex on the difference between public and spiritual contracts. I think a marriage is important to share with the family so that the union can be recognized and celebrated!

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[COLOR=Indigo]The act of marriage is taken too lightly by society. Very few children will go through their lives with their parents relationship staying together. People go into marriage at the first hint of love and leave it early becasue divorse is so easy.

Marriage is a scarced spirtual act between two people that needs to be taken more seriously. If your going to marry do it for the long haul. marriage is the act of joining two people. It should be viewed upon this way. You become joined. If your not already joined spirtually then what chance does your marriage have to begin with?

Then theres the issue of sex. Im not condeming sex before marriage becuase (god knows) im not a virgin, but with all of the STD's and chance of pregnany (even with contraceptives) people need to take time to seriously consider what there doing and supress the sexual urges.

As for adultry, i condem it unless (because it happens) both of the married persons agree it is ok. Some couples dearly love each other but need other sexual..excitement. Thats there choice but they need to seriously consider what there doing and with whom![/COLOR]

PS.

[QUOTE]Marriage is the spiritual union of a man and a woman becoming ?one? in the eyes of God.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Indigo]Even if you don't agree with it, its no longer just between man and woman. :P [/COLOR]

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[size=1]I like to think that if you consider yourself "spiritually married" than it doesn't matter if it's legal or not. If you're binding your soul to someone else's soul that should be enough. Outside of the chance to wear an expensive dress I've never really thought that legal marriage means anything. If you can't stay faithful someone because you haven't signed a paper nothing will change after you do sign that paper. I guess it depends for people and their own personal beliefs. I'm not religious and I think that getting the law involved into your relationship kind of puts a damper on the romantism of it all. I don't need someone to buy me a ring, I need someone to keep their penis in their pants when not with me. That's enough. [/size]

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[COLOR=#004a6f]The thing is, many people make marriage a much bigger hassle than it ought to be. Really there is no need for the big expensive dress an all. People should think of marriage as something which limits your freedoms as an individual. You get a boyfriend, and you could break up, same thing with marriage.

What makes a "legal" marriage different is that people know that you are in a relationship with that person. It does not need to be the government, just the community you live in. If they know your are married to that person, then it prevents you from being harmed. If the person is unfaithful to you, it is much easier to discover that, knowing there are others who know of your marriage.

Marriage is not just a romantic fantasy. It is a commitment that involves responsibility, and legal marriages put stress on that responsibility.[/COLOR]

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It's morally wrong to cheat on your spouse if you're still in a positive emotional relationship, because it hurts that person. It's like betraying a close friend--actually, it is betraying a close friend.

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[size=1]A relationship is as important as the importance you give to it. Just because you're not married to me doesn't mean nobody knows that you're my boyfriend and that it's monogomous and that if you cheat on me all hell's gonna break loose. If you're calling yourself my boyfriend it's because that's it, you're mine and I'm yours and you've agreed to be with me and no one else. If you need a piece of paper to actually stick to what you're saying than I don't want to be with you, much less be legally bound. I really do understand why people get married and when people are doing it for the right reasons it's beautiful. I'm not opposed to getting married, I just don't need it to validate my relationship. If I get married it'll probably be because I'm pregnant and if I'm pregnant it's probably because I'm having sex and if I'm having sex than this person probably means the universe to me. Most people think that when I say I don't want to get married I mean I wanna **** anything with a penis, but that's not the case. While the chances of this happening are rare, I would love to have sex with just one person for the rest of my life. I don't need the papers, I don't need the community around me to know because a relationship is between two people. You're always gonna have outside forces trying to break you apart and other forces rooting for you. Relationships don't happen, there's no such thing as "meant to be together." You make things work if you want them to work and marriage for the most part doesn't make or break it.

But that's just the way I see it ::shrugs::[/size]

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I think marriage is rather unimportant in my life. If people choose to be a part of it and form that type of union, then awesome. I'm not judging the decisions of anyone else. I just don't see any emotional/spirtual need for myself. I'm not a spiritual person in the first place, the religious/spiritual/etc function of marriage doesn't affect me.

To me, if you really love someone marriage isn't automatically the next logical step. It doesn't make you stay with them longer, it doesn't make the bond any stronger if you loved the person enough in the first place. I think that if I'm in truly love with someone, that's enough. Maybe the thought of actual true love just means more to me or something. It's automatically monogamous, it's automatically something I'd work on the best I can and it's automatically something that means very much to me. Giving that the title of "marriage" would serve no purpose.

The only real reason I'd get married is because it's the only way you can ensure a lot of shared things such as insurance... and that's just the legal type. If a girl I was with wanted to get married in other senses and felt very strongly about it, then I would do it because it is important to her. That's more important to me than my own strange thoughts on the subject.

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[QUOTE=dd protector][COLOR=Indigo]
[COLOR=Indigo]Even if you don't agree with it, its no longer just between man and woman. :P [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Heh, I must've missed the memo to scribble out that little bit in the Bible.

Let's keep this away from a homosexual marriage debate. The thread willl get really ugly, really quickly.

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Guest Alchemist
Well since marriage is really stupid, and a waste, i say do what you want to. And what if you get married to someone that you really like but do not love, is it ok to cheat? Cause i can not love anyone, becasue i am me.

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[b]Why on earth, if you've chosen to be with someone, would you cheat on them?[/b]

[b]If it's a loveless marriage-- leave it. Duh. [/b]

[b]I guess I think that the institution of marriage is rather meaningless in and of itself, except for the legal protections that it offers (such as being able to make decisions regarding your loved one's medical treatment if they are for some reason unable to do it themselves).[/b]

[b]I just don't agree that the state has to proclaim your love for someone with a legal document.[/b]

[b]I also don't agree with marriages of convenience, because I think that if you choose to be married legally, it should only be after you've chosen to be married spiritually.[/b]

[b]I will probably never get legally married, unless I fall in love with someone, make a commitment to be theirs forever and they just happen to be a non- citizen. Then, I might, for fear of my love being deported when their Visa expires...:animesmil (or vice- versa) [/b]

[b]I just don't want to have to get a legal document mandating who I can love... I don't even like the idea of having to have a social security # to do business...[/b]

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[quote name='Sepiroth']Well since marriage is really stupid, and a waste, i say do what you want to. And what if you get married to someone that you really like but do not love, is it ok to cheat? Cause i can not love anyone, becasue i am me.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Well, I'm going through a bumpy part in my marriage right now, but I don't think it's stupid. Nor is it a waste. But I do think that more people in our generation are making it a waste because instead of sticking with it when things get tough they just bail out because it's getting 'too hard'.

I think marriage is a commitment and a really major one at that whether or not it's a legally recognized on a piece of paper marriage or just between two people it doesn't matter. You made a promise infront of others and Divine whether your Divine is God or Goddess or both it doesn't matter. You made a promise and it's wrongto break a promise unless someone is 1.) beating you or your kids or 2.) cheating.

Being married is hard work, it's even harder when the two of you are separated for long periods of time, have a child or more or everything rolled into one. Then if one or both of you hasn't had the benefit of seeing a productive and strong relationship work there is definately more of a chance of someone wanting to quit at the smallest sign of unrest. But you have to be stubborn and work through it to make a marriage work.

On a lighter note, I think I've thought of sex even more than Death Bug...damn menstral cycle![/color]

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[quote name='Drix D'Zanth']Marriage is the spiritual union of a man and a woman becoming ?one? in the eyes of God..[/quote]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=RED]I believe that God is in me. His eyes are my eyes. There is no separation.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]


Originally posted by me:[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=RED]Does having a sexual relationship with someone automatically created a spiritual marriage relationship? I think so.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote name='Drix D'Zanth']Nope. I do not agree with this at all. I think a love and dedication, or marriage, to that union must be established before sex. Sex is the consummation of that relationship. Basically, it?s the icing if Cake?s the marriage.[/quote]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=RED]I believe that everyone is spiritual whether they realize it or not. Some people just don't recognize the spiritual.

[B]Not[/B] everything spiritual is good.

I think there can be [B]good[/B] spiritual marriages and [B]bad[/B] spiritual marriages.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

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my beliefs

cheating: I believe cheating is a natural thing, and some people are simply prone to it while others are not. If you can't handle having a wandering partner, then divorce them. If your character will accept your spouses nature, then stay. to me it is not a matter of right or wrong, it's what you can take. I believe it is just a part of someones personality.

Legal marriage: something on paper so you can have insurance and buy a house together, or in my case so I can stay in the country with the man I love.

religious marriage: something you do to impress your peers and family that you follow the same god. also with some religions a control tool for their clergy.

Spiritual marriage: a beautiful thing. while troubles can cause them to end, I think they are as valid, if not more so, than a "legal" marriage. so many "legal" marriages these days are simply so people can have sex and not feel guilty about it, then when the heat cools down, the marriage fizzles.

I don't think you have to have a spirtual connection to someone to have sex with them. sex is merely a drive our bodies have to reproduce. Until I found my current love, I was not contented with any man I had been with. even the man I was married to for 5 years. in the end those previous relationships boiled down to sex. The man I'm with now is the sweetest kindest man I've ever met and with him I feel content, and it has very little to do with sex. it has to do with how he makes me feel emotionally. for 2.5 years we were separated by an ocean and most of the united states, yet every day we were online talking to one another, and going a day or two without talking to each other was miserable(even if all he did was snore on the other end of the headphones because it was a 9 hour difference between us)

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[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=RED]What is good or right; what is bad or wrong [b]are[/b] spiritual things or truths. Love and hate are spiritual. What else can they be? Everything that we do has a spiritual consequence. If we say sex is not a spiritual union we are only trivializing sex. Then we can lie to ourselves and say "cheating is normal for some people and I don't have to take responsibility for the physical and emotional damaging consequences of my actions." We can lie about our sexual pasts to unsuspecting others and spread STD's all over the place. If we can lie to ourselves, lying to others is easy.

Only the customs or traditions of men can interfere and mess with spiritual truth.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

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[SIZE=1]Cheating on someone is a natural thing. Back in prehistoric times, it meant that for a woman, you got resources from [b]two[/b] males, not just one. This would help keep you alive, thus appealing to instict. For a man, it meant you had more children, which also appealed to instinct. And yes, some people are just more prone to cheating than others. I say [b]drop 'em like they're hot[/b] if they cheat. ^_~

And it all depends on your religion what your view on sex is. Some people view it as just a reproductive process, others see it as a spiritual, physical bond.

And no, the affairs of men cannot alter the ultimate "truth." I believe that God is the Truth, therefore what we say and do cannot alter Him. We'll just end up getting sin on our record with St. Peter. Hehhe.[/SIZE]

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[quote name='Retribution][size=1][size=2]Cheating on someone is a natural thing. Back in prehistoric times, it meant that for a woman, you got resources from [b]two[/b] males, not just one.[/size'] [/size][/quote]


[i][b][size=2]Oh, goodie... just what I always wanted... twice the "male resources" to deal with... :animesigh[/size][/b][/i]
[i][b][size=2] [/size][/b][/i]
[b][size=2][i]*reaches for the extra Kleenex box*[/i] [/size][/b]

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[SIZE=1]By "male resources" I meant food from hunting (when talking about prehistoric times). It probably meant double the protection too. And if staying alive to procreate was at the top of the list back then, it would be a pretty good deal.[/SIZE]

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[quote name='Retribution][size=1']By "male resources" I meant food from hunting (when talking about prehistoric times). It probably meant double the protection too. And if staying alive to procreate was at the top of the list back then, it would be a pretty good deal.[/size][/quote]
[b]Don't worry... you made your point quite clearly, I was just twisting your words for my own satisfaction... no harm intended, Retribution...[/b]

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