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Dagger

Anime How much can you take?

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How much can I take? I would have to say that my anime viewing is filled with a large range of different series and movies. Here is my short list of the "bursting points" when it comes to anime programming.

-[b]Over the top cuteness:[/b] I can't watch things that are overly saturated with sugary sweetness. Just seeing previews with uber-happy music and hearing the voice actors dog whistle voices is like nails on a chalkboard. Unlike some of you I can handle the Tachikomas since I actually find them really cute. The Tachikomas to me are balanced out by the rest of the characters and story line. I don't feel like it's an overdose of cuteness. Anything beyond that amount of cuteness is over my level.

-[b]Sexual content:[/b] I am not one for the graphic hentai anime series or movies. I would rather have a suggestion of a sexual nature than seeing things on the screen. Bouncy breasts, nudity and the occasional panty shots don't bother me.

-[b]Violence:[/b] This all boils down to story line. If there is no other reason for violence it just becomes annoying and useless.

All in all it comes down to the story line. If the story is not there the anime, in my opinion, will be a flop. I will overlook some animation glitches if the story line keeps my interest. I chalk it up to my suspension of disbelief. I can let some stuff slide.

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[quote name='fynessajynx']as for finding meaning and depth in anime, I watch it to be entertained, not to fulfill my ideologic destiny. I'm the same with movies and books. if I want to gain knowledge I'll watch discovery channel or read a non fiction book :p[/quote]

Funny, I thought you liked EVA, one of those animes with meaning and depth. Of course, there's other good things about it too.

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[quote name='Siren']Yes, one of the biggest no-no's for me is having a dumb joke played out way too long, or just repetitiveness in general. One thing I can't stand is the constant regurgitation of the anime reactions...whether it's the crying, the screaming, the sweat...anything. It's all so gimmicky, like they couldn't figure out anything more subtle--rather, anything at all, lol.[/quote]
Which is why it's nice there's such a variety of stuff out there; I'd probably have given up on anime a long time ago if everything were over-exaggerated, haha. That's not to say I don't mind the occasional dose of silly SD (super-deformed) expressions every so often. It's nice being able to mix things up; it bewilders me when people stubbornly limit themselves to certain genres (i.e. refusing to watch "kiddy" stuff, which I suspect is often due more to concerns about image than anything else, but oh well). Each to his own, I guess.

There are some circumstances that make a lack of subtlety somewhat forgivable, in my opinion. For example, you're not going to get too much nuance with shows whose target audience is obviously pre-adolescent girls (or boys, for that matter). A lot of fans like to over-emphasize the adult aspect of anime, ignoring the fact that stuff aimed at kids doesn't have to be stupid or dull, even if it isn't uber-sophisticated (at least not on the surface--Disney, anyone?). There are a few anime that I'd count among the best children's entertainment I've ever seen, and they certainly feel a lot more genuine than the snarky, pandering kids' shows I've run across on TV.

Not to imply that all American entertainment targeting children is bad or whatever--on the animated side of things, SpongeBob and the Powerpuff Girls are real gems--but for me, [i]shoujo[/i] anime like Kaleido Star and Full Moon wo Sagashite fill an otherwise empty niche. Their intended audience may range from kids to pre-teens to young teens, but they seem earnest rather than dumbed down or made over-hip, and occasionally deal with serious, surprisingly dark material (even if, as is usually the case for children's entertainment, everything comes up roses in the end).


[quote]But it's funny you mention the anime version (and then subsequently, Phillip K. Dick), because it brings up a very important point. That most anime is not original in the least, even the "first" animes. You can find those techniques and cinematography in films at the turn of the 20th century, themes and characters in the works of Phillip K. Dick, Harland Ellison--virtually the same talent list I included in a Halo 2 thread a while back, and symbolisms in pretty much every decade of cinema throughout the 20th century.[/QUOTE]
I've realized lately that I tend to abuse the word "original." I use it a lot, but in most cases what I actually mean to say is that so-and-so feels or seems original, regardless of whether or not it truly is. :animeswea

One quality I've come to value just as much as--if not more than--originality is the ability to synthesize. Tolkien drew heavily on folklore and mythology (among other things) to create Lord of the Rings. In a certain sense the trilogy was one of a kind, because (if I remember correctly) it was the first work to combine all of those different elements. I believe Shakespeare may have done something similar with how he recycled plot devices and so forth.

As a medium, anime is at most forty years old. It was really only in the late 80s and onward, perhaps even later, that new anime started to imitate older anime. People always praise Evangelion for its originality, yet it would not have been possible without the precedent set by Space Runaway Ideon (which makes the whole Eva/RahXephon "clone" argument null & void, but that's a topic for another thread). Until recently, Utena was virtually unique, but at the same time it was inspired by earlier creations like Kaze to Ki no Uta and Rose of Versailles--more so than by live-action films, I would imagine.

I doubt you'll find any radically new camera angles invented specifically by anime directors (then again, I'm not exactly a film buff). However, I've always loved seeing anime which really exploit & take full advantage of the fact that they're animated. A (good) live-action Kaleido Star series would probably be extremely expensive to create; a live-action Utena would be nigh impossible. So one can get at least that much "newness"/originality out of watching anime, even if the cinematography etc. doesn't diverge too much from that of live-action television shows and films.

~Dagger~

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[quote name='EVA Unit 100']Funny, I thought you liked EVA, one of those animes with meaning and depth. Of course, there's other good things about it too.[/quote]

hmmm.. I can be entertained by a deep storyline, I just don't require it. Fiction to me is a place to escape to so I can relax my brain.

I would never tell anyone though that their way is wrong though(well unless it involves body or mental harm to their fellow man or animals), not everyone is the same, makes life more interesting :catgirl:

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50% of these posts are long and good, mostly by Siren, Eva, and Dagger.

Sadly I'm going to disappoint with a short post.

I pretty much like all anime at first, it takes time for me to realize whether or not I'm willing to finish them or not.

Like others repetitiveness turns me off.

I can't explain why any of DBZ didn't turn me off though, I love DBZ,heh.

"Inuyasha still hasn't killed Naroku?!" is how I feel about Inuyasha. I'm getting bored with some episodes and liking others. I'm at the point where I'm just watching it to see how it ends. I guess I just feel like the anime should be over already.

This feeling was also in Wolf's Rain, when things picked up the Anime was great, but when it slowed down, it slowed down to molasses speed.

Here's a minor concept for just anime on tv(
I don't like edited animes that much.

When I see an anime I like on tv, I check it out on dvd or VHS to see if it's been edited. If it's been edited I'd rather go and just watch the anime through dvd or VHS instead of on TV.)

The only anime I ever saw that I never wanted to see again wasn't Reign, but Knights of the Zodiac. Every episode I saw (only saw 4) had horrible dialogue and the dubbing was terrible, it also felt like stuff was being edited out and that that stuff was cruicial to the story. If nothing was edited out, then that anime was horribly broken.

I think what I'm saying is, I don't like animes that feel like they are going no where or are disjointed and they don't mean to be.

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Dagger, I noticed that your post didn't mention Full Metal Alchemist, one of the most nuanced shonens of all time. With a few filler episodes excused, most of the time I have trouble beleiving it was even a kids' show! It probably ranks up there with EVA, Utena, and Justice League Season 2 in terms of "kids' shows that were really not kids' shows".

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[quote name='EVA Unit 100']Dagger, I noticed that your post didn't mention Full Metal Alchemist, one of the most nuanced shonens of all time. With a few filler episodes excused, most of the time I have trouble beleiving it was even a kids' show! It probably ranks up there with EVA, Utena, and Justice League Season 2 in terms of "kids' shows that were really not kids' shows".[/quote]
Mm, good point. I have to admit that this isn't quite what I had in mind--I was referring more to series that are obviously aimed at children than ones which seem sort of ambiguous. In my mind, Evangelion and Utena (and even FMA, albeit to a lesser extent) just aren't appropriate for people under a certain age; regardless of their intended Japanese audience, I sure as heck wouldn't show them to any kid easily scared/disturbed. Many of the underlying elements in Evangelion and Utena run the risk of either traumatizing or flying straight over the head of a child viewer. Much as I like all three of the anime you mentioned, the shows I originally had in mind were ones that tackle serious topics while remaining very child-friendly and relatively child-appropriate.

Vague Utena spoilers: [spoiler]On the other hand, it would be kind of amusing (in an evil scientist sort of way) to show Utena to impressionable young kids and see what kind of effect it might have on them, haha. Especially with all of the blatant incest, rampant hormones and homoeroticism in the second & third seasons. And then there's the movie, which has all of the above plus stylized nudity and a homosexual rape scene...[/spoiler]

@Noside: Yes, "Knights of the Zodiac" was heavily censored. I can't speak to the quality of the original version of the series (Saint Seiya), but I can only assume that it was somewhat less... preposterous, heh.

~Dagger~

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[i]Vague Utena spoilers: [spoiler]On the other hand, it would be kind of amusing (in an evil scientist sort of way) to show Utena to impressionable young kids and see what kind of effect it might have on them, haha. Especially with all of the blatant incest, rampant hormones and homoeroticism in the second & third seasons. And then there's the movie, which has all of the above plus stylized nudity and a homosexual rape scene... [/spoiler][/i]

[color=darkslateblue] ...

I'm hoping you won't have kids, Dagger. O_o[/color]

[i]It probably ranks up there with EVA, Utena, and Justice League Season 2 in terms of "kids' shows that were really not kids' shows".[/i]

[color=darkslateblue]I don't know what age group you're talking about when you say 'kids', but doesn't Justice League air at like....10:30 or something? And I didn't even know that Evangelion and Utena were aimed at kids... *raises thoughtful eyebrow* Then again, the culture in Japan is so different.[/color]

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I can't really identify which individual factor made me hate the Gravitation anime so bloody much. Maybe it was simply everything? The animation sucked, the voiced sucked, the script sucked... Ahh, gomen. This isn't a "Least Favourite Series" thread or anything, but the Gravi anime really sucks.
It was actually pretty funny when one of my friends walked into the room and immediately demanded, "Why do the voices suck?!"

That aside, I, contrary to alot of the opinions I've read here thus far, actually feel that making a show a constant bloody mess can make it that much better.

[b]Angst[/b] is the fiction equivalent of a lethal injection. It can kill the most [i]sympathique[/i] of characters, plots, and scenarios. Sure, in certain instances, angst can be a great thing, but when it's layed on too thick, it just becomes unbearable.

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[quote name='Lunox][color=darkslateblue']I don't know what age group you're talking about when you say 'kids', but doesn't Justice League air at like....10:30 or something? And I didn't even know that Evangelion and Utena were aimed at kids... *raises thoughtful eyebrow* Then again, the culture in Japan is so different.[/color][/quote]

Justice League's target demographic is ages 7-14, with a secondary demographic of ages 15-24. However, because Bruce Timm made a contract with Cartoon Network that they couldn't edit his material, to keep safe the show premiered Season 1 at 8:00, Season 2 at 10:00, and currently Seasons 3 and 4 (aka Justice League Unlimited) are airing at 8:30 and will be moved 9:00 soon. Season 1 was very kid-friendly, and while Unlimited has a few more sophisticated stories, they haven't done anything really risky outside of a few bits of innuendo and [SPOILER]the deaths of Terry and Static via electricution in the alternate future[/SPOILER]. Season 2, however, had a lot of content that barely seemed it could work in a kid-oriented show. Blood, skimpy outfits, impotence, sex slaves, threats of the middle finger, lobotomies, [SPOILER]a very convincing faked death of Superman[/SPOILER], vomit, Green Lantern's heart stopping, the Joker as a pedophile, implied interspecies sex, cursing, strangling, limbs nearly chopped off, a halfway implosion of Earth, lots of stuff you wouldn't want to find "Little Jimmy" watching.

As for EVA and Utena, they premiered advertised for the 8-18 set. However, the average anime viewers in the timeslot were in the younger half of the demographic, and the intense content was considered mostly unsuitable for that half, so controversy errupted and nobody since their orginal airings really considers them to be geared for kids. I'm surprised that no controversy over FMA occured. After last night's big revalation [SPOILER](Soilent green!!! :D )[/SPOILER] I don't see how controversy couldn't have occured!

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[QUOTE]Originally Posted by [B]Lunox[/B]
I'm hoping you won't have kids, Dagger. O_o[/QUOTE]

heh thats funny lol :D

I can't seem to remember the name of this one anime. I can remember that i turned it off half way through the first episode. It had a lot of computer generated sequences and the people where fighting "ghouls" in outer space using robots. I remember turning it off because all of the women had oversized chests. That kind of thing just annoys me. I can agree however with Panda.

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by [B]Panda[/B]
Sexual content: I am not one for the graphic hentai anime series or movies. I would rather have a suggestion of a sexual nature than seeing things on the screen. Bouncy breasts, nudity and the occasional panty shots don't bother me.[/QUOTE]

It's like you read my mind man...creepy :animeswea
But enough is enough. When every girl in the damn show looks like they are gunna fall flat on thier faces due to the size of their breasts, thats too much.
*sigh* Im out...

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[quote name='RahXephon']I can't seem to remember the name of this one anime. I can remember that i turned it off half way through the first episode. It had a lot of computer generated sequences and the people where fighting "ghouls" in outer space using robots. I remember turning it off because all of the women had oversized chests. That kind of thing just annoys me. I can agree however with Panda.[/quote]
[b]Divergence Eve[/b], perhaps?

Usually I try not to let character designs sway me one way or the other (for example, even though I initially disliked the character designs in Scrapped Princess, I eventually came to appreciate them), but there are some cases in which I can look at the artwork and immediately decide that a certain show isn't for me. Daphne in the Brilliant Blue is probably the best example of this--those outfits are just too ridiculous. I can't stomach the women in Godannar or the aformentioned Divergence Eve, either.

There are some very rare cases in which I drop an anime or refuse to even begin watching it because of thematic elements. For instance, "fake incest" really annoys me, to the point that I can't bring myself to check out something like Da Capo or Please Twins. I don't mind it when the subject is treated seriously (I absolutely love Koi Kaze, after all), but when it's trivialized it just aggravates me. You know, anything that resembles the whole "Wait, it's okay, you're adopted! Now we can go make sweet, sweet love!" schtick. That's the kind of plot device that can totally destroy my enjoyment of a show, even more so than a sudden overdose of fake cuteness or angst. :animeangr

~Dagger~

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[QUOTE]Originally Posted by [B]Dagger[/B]
Divergence Eve, perhaps?[/QUOTE]

....Thats the one... You sir,are a genius heh
:animenose

Thanks man that has been bugging me all day *sigh* :animesigh

Im out..

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