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Dagger

Anime How much can you take?

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I've noticed that fans tend to cite specific factors as being their main reason for liking/disliking/being totally unable to watch certain series. So I thought I'd list a couple of these and ask, as the title implies, how much of them you can stomach. Feel free to contribute your own.

[b]Angst:[/b] Saikano completely overdoses on angst. At a certain point I just stopped even trying to care about the characters and started impatiently waiting for the inevitable big kill-fest. The protagonist (and pretty much everyone around him) spends too much time wallowing in self-pity to be sympathetic. In fairness, I enjoyed the series and don't regret buying it, but by spending too much time on angst and over-playing its own tragedy, it ended up undermining its message.

Soukyuu no Fafner, on the other hand, manages to shovel on the angst without making its characters unlikeable or its plot twists tedious. Elfen Lied is another good example of a series that handles angst rather well.

[b]Cuteness:[/b] Cardcaptor Sakura pretty much represents the maximum amount of cuteness I can swallow. A Little Snow Sugar Fairy treads even closer to the edge; while I like both series, I can't really watch more than one or two episodes of them at a time.

[b]Hyper comedy:[/b] This is a little harder for me to judge. I'm not at all a fan of FLCL, and that's thanks in large part to the fact that its comedy was totally wasted on me. Same goes for Jubei-chan--the randomness of it just annoyed me. On the other hand, I rather liked the frenetic comedy in Gravitation and Fruits Basket (perhaps because both of those anime balance their comedy with a nice helping of drama and so forth).

~Dagger~

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I think angst is the biggest turn-off for me. Mobile Suit Gundam and Blue Gender were both series I found to be exercises in sadism; how much can we possibly make these characters suffer? You think they've suffered enough yet? No? Here's some more!

Granted, the fact that Blue Gender became increasingly non-sensical yet increasingly predictable as it went on probably also takes it down a notch, to offically become the Worst Anime Show I've Ever Seen.

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[COLOR=DarkRed]Angst is okay i guess. Most of what you mentioned i haven't seen, although Evangelion has a good amount of angst to it. Shinji is depressed almost all the time, but it's still a great series. I just have to be in the right mood to see it.

Comodey is good to. I like an anime that can ballance the comedy and angst, and everything else. I'm thinking of something like Trigun now...

In terms of Cuteness, blah! :sick: I just can't handle all the little fru-fru stuff. It's things like that that make people generalize anime as being childish.[/COLOR]

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When an anime gets too angsty, that's it for me.
If it doesn't have at least a bit of comedy, it'll be hard for me to enjoy it.

A good mix for an anime would be angst and comedy, even if one appears more than the other.

And as far as cuteness goes... yeah, too much is just... too much.

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:animesmil I can take it all... forever.
:mad: Angst usually has the really good depression stories which, as sad as they are, I LOVE!
:animestun Everyone needs a laugh, I am a walking comedy anyway (same when it comes to cuteness!)
:catgirl: Then the cuteness animes is when I get my intense girliness out, I can't keep it boxed in or it bothers me, so I watch the cute animes.

LIke the title says... Bring it... because I can definatley handle it. :animeswea

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If It Creates Emotion or Drama I cant get Enough. I Love an Anime where the Protagonist Questions his or her existance.

Evangelion, Rahxephon, .Hack//Sign, Haibane Renmei, X, Texhnolize, Boogiepop Phantom, Lain sorta, Of these I hold a strong love for.

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Guest Ryani
Alright, I'll add my own categories, too.

Angst: Well, Angst is something I don't usually tend to watch much of. Usually, I don't like angst more than a few minutes of brooding over something. I've got to say, I don't tend to encounter it that much, which is probably a reflection of my feelings towards it.
Violence: Here's one that just plain turns my stomach. Yes, I can take the bloody battles in Inuyash(and even the seen with one of Naraku's incarnations leaping right through Inuyasha, and then commenting on the taste of his insides) anything I've seen in Cowboy Bebop, or the shooting scenes in R.O.D TV. A few things have absolutely terrified me, for example, when I decided to try out Hellsing. After five minutes, there was imagery of an old man, looking terrified. Then, it shows blood-alot of it, splattering on the wall. That's..just too much. Another thing that terrified me was the Symphony of Suicide in Read Or Die..yes, there wasn't much actual violence in it...but the image of a pencil against someone's eye...well. However, that didn't turn me against the show...that was just the boiling point.
Cuteness: Something I can't take too well. I can't stand overly cuted things, like Sakura..or, well, half the shoujo there is, sometimes. Kodocha is probably my limit, there..but Sana doesn't really come off as..cute, to me, just..likable. Tohru Honda is actually..too cute for me, but I ignore her..Yuki is probably the best Cuteness for me..and no, I have no physical attraction towards Prince Yuki Sohma.
Hyper comedy: Barely any. I loved the comedy of Fruits Basket..but I doubt I could much take a pure comedy show. I've tried Abenobashi, and some of the jokes were pretty good..but most of it was lousy, with too many perverted jokes. I AM looking into Shinesman..which looks like a pretty good parody. Parody and satire, I like. Slapstick, not-so-much.
Sci-fi Elements: Often what I abandon a show for. Sci-fi just isn't my cup of tea..I liked Cowboy Bebop. That's the Big Exception.
Sexual References: I have a rule. Three strikes, in one episode, and out. Anything above that I abandon. Usually it applies only in Standup Comedy, but I used it in Abenobashi..
Shallow Characters:Cannot take more than one. Characters MUST have depth.

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[QUOTE=Ryani]Violence: Here's one that just plain turns my stomach. Yes, I can take the bloody battles in Inuyash(and even the seen with one of Naraku's incarnations leaping right through Inuyasha, and then commenting on the taste of his insides) anything I've seen in Cowboy Bebop, or the shooting scenes in R.O.D TV.

Sexual References: I have a rule. Three strikes, in one episode, and out. Anything above that I abandon. Usually it applies only in Standup Comedy, but I used it in Abenobashi..[/QUOTE]
These are some great contributions. I only wish I had thought of them myself. :animesmil

I can take pretty much any amount of violence as long as the story is very compelling. I didn't fully realize this until I finished watching Elfen Lied and discovered that by the time the end of the show rolled around, I had stopped thinking of the extremely violent content as a strike against it. Elfen Lied's incredible character development made up for--and to a certain extent, justified--the gore.

As for sexual references/fanservice... that depends. I have zero interest in series whose main selling point is fanservice, for example. At the same time, I'm willing to accept a lot of gratuitous sexual stuff if it's handled well, or if the other aspects of the anime are superb enough to let me overlook it. Melody of Oblivion's fanservice definitely tried my patience at times, but ultimately the show was more than worth it.

~Dagger~

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when an anime gets cyclically repetitive, that's when i go and do my trigenometry homework. a couple of anime I have seen (sorry but I cannot remember offhand) have the almost exact same storylines throuought all of its series', just changing the characters a bit. This I think, cheapens the means of expression that is anime.

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Wow, me posting in Anime Lounge.

I'd agree with most of what's been said already regarding comedy, violence, sex, etc, but the main reason I can only watch any anime-type program for 5 seconds, tops, is the [b]writing[/b]. It's just so incredibly bad. So much of what I've seen is so overwritten, and I've yet to hear of any animes that don't suffer from the overwhelmingly pompous and formalistic yet childish dialogue.

[i]It hurts my brain[/i].

EDIT: Ah, musn't forget the DBZ Complex, which is really just Deus ex Machina, when you think about it. The main character could be pinned up against a wall, gored through by a poisoned spear, have had a 9-iron shoved into his skull, and suffering from an advanced stage marrow cancer, and still find the strength/ability/power within himself to defeat his foe. Yeah, and monkeys may fly out of my butt! Psshaw!

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I can't stand when a series is full of nothingness. What does that mean? Go watch the Freiza saga of DBZ. Nothing.

I also can't stand hearing the same two names to many times. I mean inuyasha presses it pretty hard, but not as much as .hack//LEGEND. In EVERY EPISODE there is a scene where they do that. In fact, in one of the last episodes, they say each others name back to back 15 TIMES.

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[QUOTE=Siren]Wow, me posting in Anime Lounge.

I'd agree with most of what's been said already regarding comedy, violence, sex, etc, but the main reason I can only watch any anime-type program for 5 seconds, tops, is the [b]writing[/b]. It's just so incredibly bad. So much of what I've seen is so overwritten, and I've yet to hear of any animes that don't suffer from the overwhelmingly pompous and formalistic yet childish dialogue.

[i]It hurts my brain[/i].

EDIT: Ah, musn't forget the DBZ Complex, which is really just Deus ex Machina, when you think about it. The main character could be pinned up against a wall, gored through by a poisoned spear, have had a 9-iron shoved into his skull, and suffering from an advanced stage marrow cancer, and still find the strength/ability/power within himself to defeat his foe. Yeah, and monkeys may fly out of my butt! Psshaw![/QUOTE]
That made me giggle. :animesmil

As with anything else, there are more bad anime than good anime out there. And once you get to the good stuff, it becomes a matter of taste.... and unfortunately, some of the best anime are presented in such a way that most first-time viewers will inevitably be turned off. For example, the second & third seasons of Revolutionary Girl Utena provide a brilliant (not to mention brilliantly twisted) examination of gender roles, sexuality and fairy-tale archetypes. But the show is hobbled by its older animation, its heavy-handed "filler" episodes and the fact that it looks as though it's supposed to take place in the real world, yet obeys few real-world laws. Of course there's a lot of great newer stuff as well; although I'd normally mention names, I don't really know your tastes (beyond the fact that you talk about Alien & Star Wars & Terminator a lot, haha).

Out of curiosity, what anime titles have you seen?

Back OT, one or two really annoying characters can get me to drop a show. Heck, just the inclusion of a squeaky-cute childhood friend (which is by far the worst shounen action cliche ever, in my opinion) is enough to make me run far, far away.

~Dagger~

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[quote name='Dagger']I don't really know your tastes (beyond the fact that you talk about Alien & Star Wars & Terminator a lot, haha).[/quote] ~_^

[quote]Out of curiosity, what anime titles have you seen?[/quote] Apart from the (made obvious by that part of my post there) DBZ viewing, a bit of Wolf's Rain, a bit of Ghost in the Shell...Case Closed, FLCL (God, that thing sucked majorly), some other stuff, too, whose names escape me at the present time. Some pretty forgettable stuff, I guess. I think I may have caught one or two episodes of Inuyasha or...something. They really all just blend together, lol. :p

I don't know how good of a smattering that line-up is, but I keep hearing how great Ghost in the Shell is, and then I watch it and I'm like, "wtf?!"

So much of it sounds so forced--and by "sounds" I mean how it's written, not the lousy dubbing.

So far, there's only been one anime I enjoyed: Animatrix. I figure that's because it let the visuals tell the story instead of the writing/narration. I think "Beyond" is a stunning example of how a show doesn't need to be bogged down with dialogue/narration.

Of course, I'm crazy about the Powerpuff Girls, but apparently that doesn't count because it's not made in Japan, haha.

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[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]Any good voice acting. Good voice overs are a requirement. Bad dubs really turn me away almost automatically, regardless of the script or art, bad dubs make me frustrated. That's how the Flame of Recca DVD's are. I love the manga and art, pretty much anything (I'm a sucker for action packed shounen series :animeswea ), but the VO is just horrible.

Inu-yasha plays too much angst. Thus, why the show is just a repetitive lump. If they would throw an interesting curveball in, the show would be alot nicer to watch.

Over-ecessive (sp?) violence doesn't bother me too much, but if used in every episode (a la "Demon Lord Dante"), my stomach just churns.

-the one and only[/SIZE][/COLOR]

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[QUOTE=Siren]Apart from the (made obvious by that part of my post there) DBZ viewing, a bit of Wolf's Rain, a bit of Ghost in the Shell...Case Closed, FLCL (God, that thing sucked majorly), some other stuff, too, whose names escape me at the present time. Some pretty forgettable stuff, I guess. I think I may have caught one or two episodes of Inuyasha or...something. They really all just blend together, lol. :p

I don't know how good of a smattering that line-up is, but I keep hearing how great Ghost in the Shell is, and then I watch it and I'm like, "wtf?!"

So much of it sounds so forced--and by "sounds" I mean how it's written, not the lousy dubbing.[/QUOTE]
Yay! Someone else who dislikes FLCL!

Are you referring to the Ghost in the Shell movie(s) or Stand Alone Complex (the one that airs on Adult Swim)? I remember being pretty puzzled the first time I saw the original movie--it had great visuals, but in other regards it was [i]very[/i] different from what I had expected, and I couldn't help feeling disappointed. Preconceived notions aside, though, it does a decent job of being the film it sets out to be.

As for SAC--I personally enjoy most of the episodes (although some are worthwhile solely for their visuals, and anything Tachikoma-centric drives me crazy), but there are plenty of people who think it's uninspired & bland. I'm sure AzureWolf would be happy to elaborate, haha.

Case Closed, DBZ & Inuyasha are not worth your time, as I'm sure you've gathered (no offense to fans of those shows; I'm speaking to Alex's preferences). In fact, of the shows you mentioned, the only one I'd recommend (aside from SAC, with some reservations) is Wolf's Rain... but it has a ton of detractors, and I like it for subjective reasons, not because it's objectively excellent.

I'm sort of glad you didn't bring up Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop; everyone and his little sister tries to convert people with those two shows, which is a flawed strategy. They always get set up as the be-all and end-all of anime (and that couldn't be more of an exaggeration), so newcomers often watch them after wading through an incredible sea of hype, and end up wondering, "What's the big deal?"

[quote]So far, there's only been one anime I enjoyed: Animatrix. I figure that's because it let the visuals tell the story instead of the writing/narration. I think "Beyond" is a stunning example of how a show doesn't need to be bogged down with dialogue/narration.

Of course, I'm crazy about the Powerpuff Girls, but apparently that doesn't count because it's not made in Japan, haha.[/QUOTE]
I had fun watching some of the Animatrix shorts (now that you mention it, Beyond was my favorite), but not enough to run out and buy it. If you lean toward serious stuff that relies on visuals more so than on dialogue, Texhnolyze might be up your alley. It's extremely dark and dystopian (a bit too dystopian for me, actually, although I was able to appreciate it on an intellectual level). The visuals are nicely crafted, and it has just enough dialogue to stitch the disparate elements together. Very atmospheric.

It's too bad that Monster isn't licensed. Some flaws aside, it's probably one of the most consistently adult anime I've seen, and would work just as well as a live-action series.

Bubbles is the best, by the way. :catgirl:

There are times when an excess of dialogue does bore me, particularly if it doesn't bring anything new to the table. Certain scenes in .hack//SIGN and the later episodes of Evangelion come to mind.

~Dagger~

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[color=darkslateblue] ARGH. I used to be a huge fan of Evangelion, but now when I'm bored and randomly watch Evangelion episodes on the Anime Network, sometimes I feel like throwing stuff at the screen. It's insufferable. *chokes* The dialogue....*dies* Sometimes it got downright [i]boring[/i], and I wondered how I was ever so obsessed with the series.

.hack//SIGN bored the shizzle out of me, too. (If anyone replies to this and yells at me and tells me it's because .hack//SIGN is supposed to be meaningful and intelligent, I will personally hunt you down and hurt you. I can't count how many times people have thrown it in my face and then tried to shove it down my throat...before I could say another word).

Funny anime...there's only one anime that has managed to make me laugh multiple times in one episode. It's my baby. (I will love it forever). Which reminds me.

[B]I HATE EXCEL SAGA.[/B] It's humor falls on me like...nothing. I've never laughed at it. I've never even chuckled at it. The thought of thinking about chuckling has never entered my mind while I watched that anime. People tell me it's because I don't know what they're referencing to and etc. Don't worry. I'm fully aware. I still hate it.

Another thing I can't take is when 14-year-olds find their 'true love' and of course they're going to be forever together. *coughs*DN ANGEL*coughs* Yes, Daisuke and his 'holy maiden' or whatever annoy the ferrets out of me...especially in the anime. But yet I still buy the manga. =_=[/color]

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Dagger, consider yourself mad skilled; you're the only one who's gotten me to post more than three times in an anime-focused thread.

[quote name='Dagger']Yay! Someone else who dislikes FLCL![/quote]
^_^

[quote]Are you referring to the Ghost in the Shell movie(s) or Stand Alone Complex (the one that airs on Adult Swim)? I remember being pretty puzzled the first time I saw the original movie--it had great visuals, but in other regards it was very different from what I had expected, and I couldn't help feeling disappointed. Preconceived notions aside, though, it does a decent job of being the film it sets out to be.

As for SAC--I personally enjoy most of the episodes (although some are worthwhile solely for their visuals, and anything Tachikoma-centric drives me crazy), but there are plenty of people who think it's uninspired & bland. I'm sure AzureWolf would be happy to elaborate, haha.[/quote]
Both, really. The film is shown on digital cable every now and again, and the show on...Adult Swim, I think it is.

[quote]Case Closed, DBZ & Inuyasha are not worth your time, as I'm sure you've gathered (no offense to fans of those shows; I'm speaking to Alex's preferences). In fact, of the shows you mentioned, the only one I'd recommend (aside from SAC, with some reservations) is Wolf's Rain... but it has a ton of detractors, and I like it for subjective reasons, not because it's objectively excellent.[/quote]
Oh, I don't think the fans should be all that offended, quite honestly. It's not our fault their favorite shows are so atrocious. The animation in Wolf's Rain is pretty interesting (interesting in a good way), but I find most of the characters to be...incompetently "special."

[QUOTE] I'm sort of glad you didn't bring up Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop; everyone and his little sister tries to convert people with those two shows, which is a flawed strategy. They always get set up as the be-all and end-all of anime (and that couldn't be more of an exaggeration), so newcomers often watch them after wading through an incredible sea of hype, and end up wondering, "What's the big deal?"[/QUOTE]
That's my reaction to most anime, heh. "What's the big deal?"

[QUOTE]I had fun watching some of the Animatrix shorts (now that you mention it, Beyond was my favorite), but not enough to run out and buy it. If you lean toward serious stuff that relies on visuals more so than on dialogue, Texhnolyze might be up your alley. It's extremely dark and dystopian (a bit too dystopian for me, actually, although I was able to appreciate it on an intellectual level). The visuals are nicely crafted, and it has just enough dialogue to stitch the disparate elements together. Very atmospheric.[/QUOTE]
It's not that I lean more toward visuals, necessarily, because by nature, I'm very dialogue-oriented. It's just that when the dialogue is really bad, I feel the need to committ mass homicide. But Texhnolyze sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out. It sounds very Metropolian (Fritz Lang's Metropolis).

[QUOTE]Bubbles is the best, by the way. :catgirl: [/QUOTE]
People ask me why I use her as my buddy icon. They just don't realize that she's a demon in disguise. Arguably the most powerful of the three. She's all cutesy on the outside, but when she gets pissed, holy **** things are gonna die.

And actually, Powerpuff Girls reminds me of another point (because Powerpuff Girls excels in this): Characterization. If a show has lousy characterization, I'm not going to be able to watch for very long.

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I gotta be honest here. I only watched Cowboy Bebop for the Jazz. Now, GTO had me captured for the first few episodes. Interesting predicaments. Around the 15th episode it became startlingly apparent that the same basic encounter was repeating itself... *sigh*

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[quote name='Dagger']Yay! Someone else who dislikes FLCL![/quote]

One thing you must understand is that what people (well, me and a few others) like about FLCL isn't that it is great comedy. Far from it, actually. I got a laugh out of it the first time but barely chuckled the 2nd time onward. What makes it so popular is that it is great art. The designs are wacky but yet at the same time carry more realism that the stereotypical anime style, the animation is consistant and lively, the music rocks, and most importantly if you sift through all the downright bizzare junk you can find a very deep and somber story told in an over-the-top comedic way. That is what it is so brilliant about it. A lot of what attracted me to Cowboy Bebop was that it was almost as if Shakespeare was pitching his next Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet to a confused Monkey Punch who was treating it as another season of Lupin 3rd. FLCL has that brilliant quality to it, only the comedy covering up the story is overdone to the extent you can barely tell the story exists even though it does. This overdoing makes the show very ingenius, making it more of a mindscrew show like Paranoia Agent or Lain, but also makes it annoying for some. I can understand if FLCL is not your cup of tea, but you should not doubt its excellence.

[quote name='Siren']And actually, Powerpuff Girls reminds me of another point (because Powerpuff Girls excels in this): Characterization. If a show has lousy characterization, I'm not going to be able to watch for very long.[/quote]

I'm thinking you might like Bebop. Its characterization is outstanding. The show has a lot of hype that might lower you enjoyment, but actually it deserves a lot of it, moreso than Evangelion (also a great show that might seem to have flat characterization at first but has some very good character deconstruction and development once you get into the meat of the show in episodes 15-20, also episodes 21-24 to some extent, but outside of DBZ, SM, Mobile Suit Gundam, Inu-Yasha, and probably Naruto it is the most overhyped thing to ever hit Japanese airwaves).

By the way, Bubbles is awesome, but if you want to count the villains Mojo and Him are the best. :catgirl:

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I don't like too much cutsey stuff, it drives me madd after a few moments. Also when there's a lot of depressing, serious things in for a long time, it gets kindof boring. I like a lot of comedy, but if it's really corny, it's no good, like the Pokemon jokes and some from the DBZ & GT. A lot of gorey scenes, like one after the other, and perverted stuff can really turn me off at times. But I can pretty much take anything as long as theres not too much of it.

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In regards to what Drix and others said, it seems like repetitiveness is a pretty common complaint. I definitely can't argue with that, heh. Sometimes repetitive comedy (i.e. running jokes) can be done well, but often it just falls flat. And obviously it's nice to have a plot with some variety and freshness to it.

[quote name='Siren']Dagger, consider yourself mad skilled; you're the only one who's gotten me to post more than three times in an anime-focused thread.[/quote]
I try my best. :animesmil

[quote]It's not that I lean more toward visuals, necessarily, because by nature, I'm very dialogue-oriented. It's just that when the dialogue is really bad, I feel the need to committ mass homicide. But Texhnolyze sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out. It sounds very Metropolian (Fritz Lang's Metropolis).[/QUOTE]
There's a fairly well-known anime movie called "Metropolis," incidentally. I think it was inspired by images from the Lang film. The character designs have this wonderful soft, retro look to them--that's all I really remember, though, as it's been years since I last watched it.

On a related note, I have often seen fans compare Texhnolyze to the works of Philip K. Dick--not that I can really confirm or deny the validity of that comparison, seeing how as my public library system doesn't carry "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" Maybe it's time to start putting those Borders gift cards to good use. :animesigh

EDIT: EVA, I didn't say that FLCL was awful from an objective standpoint (although I might be willing to argue that, under different circumstances). I just don't like it. I don't mind having to look past the surface to find the story--I've always loved Boogiepop Phantom, for example--but FLCL didn't give me much more than eye candy. The humor failed to resonate with me, and I couldn't stand any of the characters. The "set piece" scenes made me yawn.

I haven't seen it in a while, but from what I remember, there isn't that much plot underneath all the visual flash & bang. It kind of annoyed me that they went to so much trouble to obscure such a straight-forward (if nonsensical) storyline. Utena & Melody of Oblivion (the latter to a lesser extent) are two anime that do a wonderful job of presenting a highly surreal and multi-layered story; both of them make sense on a surface level, but one can also choose to dig much, much deeper. To me FLCL seemed a lot more random, and many of the visual devices felt like red herrings in the end.

~Dagger~

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[quote name='Dagger']In regards to what Drix and others said, it seems like repetitiveness is a pretty common complaint. I definitely can't argue with that, heh. Sometimes repetitive comedy (i.e. running jokes) can be done well, but often it just falls flat. And obviously it's nice to have a plot with some variety and freshness to it.[/quote]
Yes, one of the biggest no-no's for me is having a dumb joke played out way too long, or just repetitiveness in general. One thing I can't stand is the constant regurgitation of the anime reactions...whether it's the crying, the screaming, the sweat...anything. It's all so gimmicky, like they couldn't figure out anything more subtle--rather, anything at all, lol.


[QUOTE]I try my best. :animesmil [/QUOTE]
:smooch:

[QUOTE]There's a fairly well-known anime movie called "Metropolis," incidentally. I think it was inspired by images from the Lang film. The character designs have this wonderful soft, retro look to them--that's all I really remember, though, as it's been years since I last watched it.

On a related note, I have often seen fans compare Texhnolyze to the works of Philip K. Dick--not that I can really confirm or deny the validity of that comparison, seeing how as my public library system doesn't carry "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" Maybe it's time to start putting those Borders gift cards to good use. :animesigh[/QUOTE]
Oh, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was inspired by Fritz Lang. When Lang's Metropolis was released back in the 20s, the big-wigs in Hollywood were [i]freaking out[/i], because they were terrified at how revolutionary the film was, particularly in terms of set design and scope--it was an enormous film...literally. There are shots in the film that are some 8 physical layers deep (8 layers of matting going on) with moving vehicles and biplanes.

In terms of the character design of the anime version, I'd doubt they looked to Metropolis for that; Lang's characters are incredibly angled and cut, in keeping with the German expressionist flavor of the era.

But it's funny you mention the anime version (and then subsequently, Phillip K. Dick), because it brings up a very important point. That most anime is not original in the least, even the "first" animes. You can find those techniques and cinematography in films at the turn of the 20th century, themes and characters in the works of Phillip K. Dick, Harland Ellison--virtually the same talent list I included in a Halo 2 thread a while back, and symbolisms in pretty much every decade of cinema throughout the 20th century.

[quote]EDIT: EVA, I didn't say that FLCL was awful from an objective standpoint (although I might be willing to argue that, under different circumstances). I just don't like it. I don't mind having to look past the surface to find the story--I've always loved Boogiepop Phantom, for example--but FLCL didn't give me much more than eye candy. The humor failed to resonate with me, and I couldn't stand any of the characters. The "set piece" scenes made me yawn.

I haven't seen it in a while, but from what I remember, there isn't that much plot underneath all the visual flash & bang. It kind of annoyed me that they went to so much trouble to obscure such a straight-forward (if nonsensical) storyline. Utena & Melody of Oblivion (the latter to a lesser extent) are two anime that do a wonderful job of presenting a highly surreal and multi-layered story; both of them make sense on a surface level, but one can also choose to dig much, much deeper. To me FLCL seemed a lot more random, and many of the visual devices felt like red herrings in the end.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]
To add onto what Dagger just said about FLCL,

[quote name='EVA']Cowboy Bebop was that it was almost as if Shakespeare was pitching his next Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet to a confused Monkey Punch who was treating it as another season of Lupin 3rd. FLCL has that brilliant quality to it, only the comedy covering up the story is overdone to the extent you can barely tell the story exists even though it does.[/quote]
Anime does not equal Shakespeare, and to validate FLCL's mind-numbingly idiotic presentation by referencing Shakespearean comedies like The Tempest or Twelfth Night is iffy at best. Shakespeare didn't have characters jumping around like morons simply for the sake of hiding the plot. Every character in his work was there for a legitimate reason.

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[QUOTE=DeathBug]I think angst is the biggest turn-off for me. Mobile Suit Gundam and Blue Gender were both series I found to be exercises in sadism; how much can we possibly make these characters suffer? You think they've suffered enough yet? No? Here's some more!

Granted, the fact that Blue Gender became increasingly non-sensical yet increasingly predictable as it went on probably also takes it down a notch, to offically become the Worst Anime Show I've Ever Seen.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Exactly what I was thinking. I'm all for well developed characters going through some realistic hardships, but I lose interest when they being to throw these characters through hell left and right, to the point where you would figure they would just give up and kill themselves! But of course, that wouldn't be what the writer was aiming for...;)

If it was, kudos to you then. You've truly made one hell of an issue that, I hope I'd never go through. lol[/COLOR]

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I can handle most except excessive silly humor, I just get too embarassed for the character to watch. I also get a little bored with the dorky boy being surrounded by dozens of beautiful bouncing babes who all want him, but he's only interested in the wholesome plain looking love of his younger days. :rolleyes:

as for finding meaning and depth in anime, I watch it to be entertained, not to fulfill my ideologic destiny. I'm the same with movies and books. if I want to gain knowledge I'll watch discovery channel or read a non fiction book :p

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