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[QUOTE=r2vq]

Also have to remember that Japan itself is a sexist, chauvinistic country. Only recently have things been changing. Traditionally, men practically owned women like property and women are only meant to be "good wives".

Things [b]are[/b] starting to change, I hear, only very, very slowly.

-ArV[/QUOTE]
That is an excellent point. When most people think about sexism, they think about the author or characters of the anime as sexist and seen to forget that originally this kind of attitude wasn't peered at as sexist. You have to take into account that this was what was perceived as the truth in the culture in which they live. I'm guessing that the sexist nature of anime will slowly diminish as the Japanese culture evolves its attitudes towards women into a more positive note.

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On a related note, the definition of "feminism" in Japan is approximately equivalent to the English definition of "chivalry." Besides being supremely ironic, I think that this sort of helps put things into perspective. If you ever see a male (or female) anime/manga character declare himself to be a feminist, chances are that he [i]isn't[/i] a feminist, at least not in the American sense of the term.

~Dagger~

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[QUOTE=r2vq]
Hey.
I'm not a lumberjack,
or a fur trader...
and I don't live in an igloo
or eat blubber, or own a dogsled...
and I don't know Jimmy, Sally or Suzy from Canada
even if I am Canadian.
[/QUOTE]


...Why does this makes me think of Python? "III'm a lum-ber-jack and I'm o-kaaaaay..." :animeswea

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[QUOTE]Azurewolf was mad at Dirt for being rude and calling Rider's post stupid, and then continued to critque elfpirate's entire post with quite rude comments *confused*[/QUOTE][COLOR=blue]Haha, you are assuming that I think a stupid post doesn't warrant a rude reply. Stupid posts do warrant rude replies, IMO. But FR's post wasn't stupid, and therefore didn't deserve such a rude reply. I never said elfpirate's post wasn't stupid. :p No hypocritical actions and remarks here. ^^ Anyway...

Are women really that "second-class" still in Japan? I really thought it was as liberal as it was here. Also, r2vq, are you saying that's why anime is sexist, or are you just providing reasons for the few animes that are sexist?[/COLOR]

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Since when was she in Dragonball Z? She seemed to disappear after Dragon Ball. XD




Also have to remember that Japan itself is a sexist, chauvinistic country. Only recently have things been changing. Traditionally, men practically owned women like property and women are only meant to be "good wives".

Things are starting to change, I hear, only very, very slowly.

-ArV




I Edited by ladyarianrod
Editing old posts

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i so agree with u i think anime is cool and all but when u think about it they put impressions in kids minds that u noe all anime chicks are big chested and like every girl is like that i mean like fye my fav charater shes cool but u see what she wears? and like come on not all girls chest are like that , that was born with , i think sometimes anime chicks are so overrated :animeswea

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[quote name='AzureWolf][COLOR=blue']Are women really that "second-class" still in Japan? I really thought it was as liberal as it was here. Also, r2vq, are you saying that's why anime is sexist, or are you just providing reasons for the few animes that are sexist?[/COLOR][/quote]
I don't know that 'second class' is the best way to describe it.
It's a different culture with different ideals to America (and Europe and Australia etc).

I have met many Japanese females who ceased working as soon as they were married to run the house and family. And they do run the house and family! They manage all the money and decision making about the home - and they're happy.

I don't know how much of the country agree with the people I've met - but I think when thinking of Japan, and of anime and manga, you do need to keep in mind that they do have different ideals and they create work that will appeal to their culture.

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^^ Not Monty Python.

Japan is extremely chauvanistic. JenniKate seems to understand what I mean. ^^
Men are in control. Women are either normal women (stay at home) or business women. Business women who get married are pressured to quit their jobs.

I don't understand the 'feminism' 'chivalery' thing though...

-ArV

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[QUOTE=Ailes de Velour][Font="Tahoma"][Size="1"][Color="DarkOrchid"]

I definitely agree. Mimiru of .hack//SIGN is my favorite character, but she barely wears ANYTHING (not to mention, she's pretty flatchested, so there's really no point to the skankiness of her attire.) I mean, I went through the whole series thinking she wasn't wearing pants. It was just a bra, some armor, and a loincloth. Then I noticed that her legs were a different color than the rest of her skin. But anyway.
It's not just anime, it's also video games. Soul Calibur II is one I know of, with Ivy and Taki, it's ridiculous. For one, I don't see how Ivy can fight huge men-creatures in a tiny bra and a thong. And Taki, her red outfit, she must be VERY COLD. It's so blatant in the opening sequence! I mean, sheesh.

[/font][/color][/size][/QUOTE]


Well thats just the charater designs. Like Hutoko ( I tihnk thats how you spell it) from .hack//AI Buster. As long as thier not showing anything and their not like huge then it's fine with me. Mimiru, blackRose and Rena all have the same outfit .

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Guest chobitslover90
[quote name='Synical']Do you realise, that anime/manga mainly have women with boobs bigger than thier heads wearing skimpy bikinis (eg: love hina) or tight costumes? but you never see many blokes like that. Women are portraid in a slutty way, which is not how some live their lifestyle. If anyone disagrees with me, please say so.[/quote]

Um have you ever seen Inuyasha? The boys in there are pretty too you girls right? Well thats just what the anime creaters of those animes with girls with huge boobs and buts? You see men and women have different ideas of beauty. When an attractive broad walks bye the guy might look at the ladys face a second then his eyes are going right to the derrier (look it up) You see its not just anime that has sex to sell it its everything i mean ive seen a friggin tissue comercial that uses sex to sell the product just face it sex friggin sells

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well lots of anime and manga do show lot women in little to nothing clothes.But that doesn't stop guys in no clothes or little as well. But they do show girls with boobs biger than barbie (cant spell) .So I dont know i think the do it to please everyone think about it (I'm not saying this is true about everyone but) wouldn't a girl like to watch or read a book about a hot guys with no shirt or no real pants on fight or try to find love ect.Sorry guys but this is true about some of you (mostly my guy friends anyways) ,guy like big boob thin as a pole women that fights ,carry a big gun,or does it with everyone she mets. So I guess it really up to the creator. But still there are anime and manga that doesn't even has anything to do with those stuff. so I dont know...

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Um usually men are portrayed as the weak and helpless ones and weomen are the dominant ones like in mohoromatic maiden mohoro is always protecting her master volentarilly i might add and the guys is portayed as a helpless pervert utill the end where his life is saved by mohoro soo booyah.

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Guest Akilamo
I completely agree with most of you guys. Females in anime are looked upon as a sex icon and they are portrayed as the one to use their body to get the work done. Also another issue, when the females are showed being tortured and raped, the men in japan seem to get a kick out of seeing that. It is so proposterous. I mean I like anime and all but they should respect the women more. :animeangr

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Sure there are lots anime out there who use women as objects but most of the time women are the dominant character. Like in princess mononoke she may not be the strongest character but she sure as hell aint helpless. The only argument you would have that would be considered sexism would be how lerge ther breast thighs are which is also not an argument because that is used for purposes of making them more beautifull mostly. And most of the anime that depicts girls in this crude manner are usally MADE FOR GUYS! There called shonen for a reason. So fif the audeience is guys anime creators dont give a rats *** about "how women are portrayed"
If you dont like it dont friggin watch it. Go watch pokemon.

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[quote name='Avenged666fold']If you dont like it dont friggin watch it. Go watch pokemon.[/quote]
If the answer is that simple, then why do you complain about how males are portrayed in anime?

~Dagger~

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I'd hate to say it, but when it comes down to the bottom line that's all there is to it. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Nobody is going to force you, so why complain if someone made the choice to. All it does is put out some form of advertisement even if you don't mean to. The best way to gstop those kind of things sis just ignore them and boycott them. I personally don't have a problem with it and I'm not a fan boy of any kind. I don't look forward to that in anime, though I do have friends who do. But that's neither here nor there. Like I said, it doesn't bother me, but I can understand why it does bother other people and that's fine to. In the end all I really want to say is, let it go. I'm not even sure if you could really call it sexism. to call it that is the same as calling porn sexism. It's not sexism, it's fan service, plain and simple. It's to give all the hopeless fan boys out there something to fantasize about, it's not meant to demean women in anyway, it's all about making the guys happy.

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I agree to a certain extent. I rather enjoy well-done fanservice, myself. What I meant is that it doesn't make sense for him to basically say "suck it up" to people who are upset about women being portrayed badly in anime, when he himself makes a big point of complaining about men being portrayed badly in anime.

~Dagger~

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[QUOTE=Dagger]If the answer is that simple, then why do you complain about how males are portrayed in anime?

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

Really I dont give a damn but to keep it fair i figured it would be good to bring up another similar issue. But really its all not real so its not a big deal.

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Guest haku209
[quote name='Synical']Do you realise, that anime/manga mainly have women with boobs bigger than thier heads wearing skimpy bikinis (eg: love hina) or tight costumes? but you never see many blokes like that. Women are portraid in a slutty way, which is not how some live their lifestyle. If anyone disagrees with me, please say so.[/quote]
im sure chicks do not live that way but some do. its all about the money. i think its totally appropriet even though im a dude it dose not make any differance. its a cartoon.(anime) it shouldent be a problem to any one.and if so well tat person wit the problem dosent really hav one. they jus want attention. or they complain because they jus can and hav the right to. thats why the worlds ****** up. becaues of people like that.................wow.... im srry i kinda went over board

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[quote name='Dagger']I agree to a certain extent. I rather enjoy well-done fanservice, myself. What I meant is that it doesn't make sense for him to basically say "suck it up" to people who are upset about women being portrayed badly in anime, when he himself makes a big point of complaining about men being portrayed badly in anime.[/quote]


Point taken. And your right about that, I'm jsut trying to put my point across and simply agreeing witht he idea if you don't like it just don't watch it. To honest that idea of tellling the girls to suck it up then getting upset over the male end is a little hypocritical and I'll give you that.

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[QUOTE=Avenged666fold]And most of the anime that depicts girls in this crude manner are usally MADE FOR GUYS! There called shonen for a reason. So fif the audeience is guys anime creators dont give a rats *** about "how women are portrayed"
If you dont like it dont friggin watch it. Go watch pokemon.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Goodness. Keep your shirt on, noone is attacking you. Besisdes, it may be called 'Shonen', but that doesn't mean females can't read it. And-- I'm simply pointing this out because you obviously haven't noticed-- There's mangas and animes made [i]specifically[/i] for girls, and the 'large breast' issue is the same. It's not just in the mangas/animes made for guys. So chill out, girls have every right to be offended. You don't own the universe ;)

Now I personally don't have a huge problem with anime/manga creators giving thier characters overly-large breasts. I can't say it's something I like or something I think looks attaractive in the least, but it's thier right to portray the characters however they so please. They give men bulging, un-realistic muscles in many animes/mangas, I don't see how this is much different except that a guy with no shirt is acceptable, whereas a girl with a skimpy shirt is considered 'slutty'.

Personally, I think that everyone stands on different grounds with this issue. There's little to no point arguing, because noone is going to change thier minds anytime soon.[/SIZE]

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[quote name='Synical']Do you realise, that anime/manga mainly have women with boobs bigger than thier heads wearing skimpy bikinis (eg: love hina) or tight costumes? but you never see many blokes like that. Women are portraid in a slutty way, which is not how some live their lifestyle. If anyone disagrees with me, please say so.[/quote]


The way she says it makes it seem like big news .

Headline

"Guys like girls with big butts gasp"

She acts like its a big suprise .

Also she acts like its a huge problem when in reality it doesnt matter beacause its NOT REAL!!!!!

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[QUOTE=Avenged666fold]The way she says it makes it seem like big news .
Headline
"Guys like girls with big butts gasp"
She acts like its a big suprise .
Also she acts like its a huge problem when in reality it doesnt matter beacause its NOT REAL!!!!![/QUOTE]

Sure it may not be real, but she takes it on the idea it's an insinuation on how women act. Which it is not. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's done in the name of fanservice. In the name of the pasty faced anime geeks who can't find a girl how will talk to them. In that said, I agree, she needs to calm down and get over it because it's just pure and simple entertainment, but she's saying that's how they think women are or should be and are pushing that image to others, when that is simply not the case here. It's all done in the name of entertainment like so many other things.

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[QUOTE=Dirt][b][color=darkgreen]
Or here's an even better example- Inuyasha. Someone on this thread mentioned that Inuyasha wasn't a sexist anime. Well, then... why is Inuyasha always showing up just in the nick of time to save Kogome from some sort of inevitable doom?[/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]She is always completely helpless and just as the hammer is about to fall, there's Inuyasha- and sometimes Koga or Miroku- to be her knight in shining armor- perpetuating the stereotype that females are weak and that they are helpless without the assistance of a man.[/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400][/color][/b]
[b][color=#006400]A character's costume- even if it's in poor taste- does far less damage to the psyche of the public than does a blatantly stereotypical female character.[/color][/b][/QUOTE]
Kagome is a human in a world full of demons and monsters. Of course she's going to be in a lot of danger and in need of saving. It isn't meant to portray women as weak. In fact, I think she is the only woman in the series that seems helpless. Like Synical, you're thinking of the exception, not the rule.

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