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You've seen literally 30 seconds of the movie. To compare that to the full, finished product seems rather weird. Obviously the whole thing isn't going to simply be about Could and a supposed-Sephiroth fighting for 60 minutes. There isn't even any word on the story yet... absolutely none. I don't know how people can make these conclusions.

FF7 was 50 hours worth of blabber anyway. The series keeps getting more and more movie-like and I figure this is pretty much a natural evolution. Putting this out gets a few people to shut up and it also doesn't take as much work as making a full game. I don't blame them, honestly.

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]There isn't even any word on the story yet... absolutely none. I don't know how people can make these conclusions.

FF7 was 50 hours worth of blabber anyway.[/B][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=purple]Yeah...yeah, I totally agree with you, Sem. But I wasn't drawing a final conclusion there or anything, just basing my complaints on what I've seen so far. But I needn't complain anymore until I see more of this, or see the whole gong-hooted thing. :rolleyes:

And about the 'blabber.' I actually enjoy reading (dialogue or not), and I have no complaints regarding dialogue. However, it'd be great if actual voices [B]accompanied[/B] the dialogue i.e. the Grandia series, and FFX, but it shouldn't disappear when the person's finished talking. Every once in while, during FFX, I had to pause the game in order to fully understand what they were talking about, then I'd unpause it and move on.

RPGs usually [B]are[/B] revolved around storytelling, right? FFVII was great example of this.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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Gong-hooted? heh

Well it should be noted that I am not fond of many of the FF games, so I'm biased. I know people here don't agree with me, so it's all well and good. Most people seem to think RPGs I enjoy are rather dull anyway lol. Personally I'm not fond of FF7's story, or otherwise... although I can see why people would be.

I don't really know what to expect with this. I really don't know how they could take such a long game and make a decent sequel to it within 60 minutes... but I suppose if you took FF7, you could probably compress it down into a rather short film if you REALLY wanted to.

I agree with you on the whole disappearing text after talking thing. I didn't have a problem in FFX with that, personally... but there are a few RPGs that sometimes get ahead of themselves with the text. If you wanted to read it, it's basically too bad. I much prefer the RPGs that wait for you to press X (or whatever) before moving onto the next bit of dialogue.

In any case, hopefully it will turn out.

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[color=#707875]I greatly enjoyed all the dialogue in FFVII...the "blabber" was generally great. And it was well translated (our version, at least). So it was nice and it was fun to read people's different personalities.

But I must ask a question about this dialogue business.

Am I the only one who would prefer text-only dialogue in games?

Sometimes I don't mind spoken dialogue...but I found it annoying in FFX. The issue you mentioned (with spoken word getting ahead of text) frustrates me to no end...and I read very quickly, so I like being able to flick through dialogue at my own pace.

I think I still do prefer games with text-only dialogue. Although some complained, for example, that TWW had no audio dialogue...I would actually feel a bit saddened if Link started talking. I'm sure they'd do his voice well...but you know what I mean. For me, FFVII was like a great novel -- the fact that it had so much dialogue was wonderful. It was a novel...only with beautiful scenery and interaction. Spoken word would kind of ruin that, for me at least.[/color]

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[color=indigo]Well, I've never played a game with all spoken dialogue (unless you count F-Zero GX), but I think I would prefer just text. I read a lot, so I always have my own voices for the characters. That, and I just prefer reading to hearing things spoken. I've found movies barely interest me at all anymore, whereas anime with subtitles tend to hold my interest a lot better. For a movie to hold my interest through the whole thing it either has to have a really good story or be really funny.[/color]

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i][B][color=#707875]I greatly enjoyed all the dialogue in FFVII...the "blabber" was generally great. And it was well translated (our version, at least). So it was nice and it was fun to read people's different personalities.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

I think you know me well enough to know that I don't simply lash out on games for no just cause. I've been playing FF games since the first year they hit the US. Yet, I do have a poor opinion of FF7 though FFX (and even FF6 to some extents).

Here, FF7 was just poorly translated, in my opinion. A lot of it is completely incohesive and muddled, especially in terms of Sephiroth. When someone needs to create a FAQ about Cloud's motivations and people still argue about the true existance of Sephiroth in a mortal coil, I think there's a problem. These aren't things the game didn't try to address (which would mean they were up to the player to make their own decisions on), they just weren't addressed [i]well[/i].

I know a lot of people feel otherwise, but on the other hand, I'm not someone who gets confused by complex storylines. I'm not simply just misunderstanding this game, especially considering there are more complex ones around. The rest of my issues with the game are really just personal, so I won't bother lol

From speaking to you in the past, you've given me the impression that your translation was tightened up. This is something I think would have benefited FF7 greatly. I blame SCEA, although they didn't screw it over as much as they did Star Ocean: Second Story and Grandia.


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875]
But I must ask a question about this dialogue business.

Am I the only one who would prefer text-only dialogue in games? [/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

No, you're not. I'd much rather read. I'd much rather use my own imagination to fill in the blanks and come up with my own ideas on how characters should sound. I don't like a crappy localization team making that decision for me. I've played many RPGs that were seriously almost [i]ruined[/i] thanks to the translation or addition of voices.

This is also why I likeRPGs that aren't as story centric as FF is now. That doesn't mean I don't like a good story... I do. However, FF recently has been removing all the chance I have for imagination. In old school RPGs, there was little story by comparison. You had to form your own opinions on characters and their ideals... something that is just missing from these games. Some people may love that, I personally don't.

I read rather quickly as well, and I hate having to sit there while these characters are still reading lines and I want to move on. Many voice filled RPGs give you the option of pressing the "ok" button to advance the text or skip it when you're done reading. All should allow this.

As for Zelda, I totally agree. I don't want Link to EVER talk. Charles knows full well my opinion on that heh.

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]I think you know me well enough to know that I don't simply lash out on games for no just cause. I've been playing FF games since the first year they hit the US. Yet, I do have a poor opinion of FF7 though FFX (and even FF6 to some extents).

Here, FF7 was just poorly translated, in my opinion. A lot of it is completely incohesive and muddled, especially in terms of Sephiroth. When someone needs to create a FAQ about Cloud's motivations and people still argue about the true existance of Sephiroth in a mortal coil, I think there's a problem. These aren't things the game didn't try to address (which would mean they were up to the player to make their own decisions on), they just weren't addressed [i]well[/i].[/quote][/b]

[color=#707875]I don't even remember a lot of the plot to FFVII, simply because I haven't really played it since the year it came out. I played through the entire game...I loved it...and that was it. Obviously, being an RPG, I don't tend to play through twice.

I do know, however, that the translation on the PAL version (at least the Australian/SE Asian version) was very good. Bear in mind that our version also came in multiple language settings too.

Generally -- and compared with other games in the series -- I felt a stronger sense of emotion in the writing to FFVII. The characters felt more alive and real than in, say, FFVIII. To me, FFVIII was really like a flat experience, compared to VII. I just had very little care for the characters and scenario.

Also...and I've said it before...there was something about FFVII's atmosphere that sucked me in. Even the part where you go from the slums and make your way up through the Shinra building in a covert-type manner...the whole concept of being a part of AVALANCHE and avoiding the authorities...and the fact that the game had so many sobering/depressing moments.

Maybe the writing was something that enhanced this; I'm sure that's the case. FFVII just carries so many wonderful memories for me, even though I actually prefer the physical gameplay of FFX -- I'd much rather play a battle in FFX or Chrono Cross any day, I think.[/color][quote][b]

I know a lot of people feel otherwise, but on the other hand, I'm not someone who gets confused by complex storylines. I'm not simply just misunderstanding this game, especially considering there are more complex ones around. The rest of my issues with the game are really just personal, so I won't bother lol

From speaking to you in the past, you've given me the impression that your translation was tightened up. This is something I think would have benefited FF7 greatly. I blame SCEA, although they didn't screw it over as much as they did Star Ocean: Second Story and Grandia.[/quote][/b]

[color=#707875]Well, regarding the understanding of it...if Square did translate the US version poorly, then I can see why there would a) be debate and b) problems with the overall plot and the way it was presented.

I enjoyed the pacing of the game -- to me it felt far more epic than FFVIII through X. X doesn't feel epic to me whatsoever, frankly, even though I do enjoy it.

But yeah, the more I read about this game and the more I talk to people about it...the more I am starting to wonder how badly SCEA has messed up translation in general on other games. This is perhaps the only advantage to getting some games later in Australia -- we tend to get fixes. Mostly it's either translation and bugs...or both. The camera was tweaked in our version of Sonic Adventure, for example. And we received an extra mode and goodies in Luigi's Mansion.

So I guess that's some comfort to those of us who get games later. In the case of RPGs...I'd rather wait and get the better translation, if the first version was worse off.[/color][quote][b]





This is also why I likeRPGs that aren't as story centric as FF is now. That doesn't mean I don't like a good story... I do. However, FF recently has been removing all the chance I have for imagination. In old school RPGs, there was little story by comparison. You had to form your own opinions on characters and their ideals... something that is just missing from these games. Some people may love that, I personally don't.

[/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]Well, I would personally not like to be left in the lurch, as far as narrative and dialogue goes. I enjoy the fact that FFVII has plenty of great dialogue and narrative, without actually being deliberate in filling me in on every step of the game.

For me...I enjoyed reading through it. And that was because I liked what was being said and I liked the way characters were fleshed out. So, I enjoyed that part of it. Had the translation been worse...or had the actual story/characters been poorly done, it would be a very painful experience -- the gameplay would not help it, I don't think.

But yeah, I do prefer text to voice. I'd rather see text bubbles coming out from Yuna and Tidus than voices, in all honesty. Or at least, allow me to fast forward and scroll through more quickly. I just didn't like the pacing of FFX's dialogue sequences. And as a result, I ignored half the story and disliked the bits that I actually listened to.[/color]

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James --

Well less reliance on story telling devices does not automatically mean a lack of plot or character development. At one time, it did, simply due to cartridge constraints and the youth of the genre on consoles. The NES FFs didn't exactly have amazing stories, for example.

I'm mostly referring the reliance FF has on FMVs, long cutscenes and pretty much anything else that helps remove any of the possibilites for your own thoughts on the situation. It's becoming more and more movie-like... and while it started with FF6, I think FF7 capitalized on it and FFX did even moreso (the big difference being that FFX simply didn't have anything of interest for me story wise). The addition of voices pretty much removed any personal connection I could have with the game (although it's possibly because of some of the poor dubbing... FFX-2 improved on this and I don't mind voice overs in PC RPGs, for example). Personally, it's something I'm not big on in general. I can see why others might prefer it.

My other issues with FF7 involved the complete lack of any decent dungeons and the characters, who I, personally, am still not fond of. Obviously this goes against most people's opinions on the characters here though heh. The game never really got to me like it did for so many others, and this is the game that was the only reason I even bought a Playstation in the first place. I was definitely looking forward to it.

For example, I didn't have this problem with Skies of Arcadia. The story is still pretty good and the characters very likable and decently developed. It just didn't have the same reliance on the story telling devices that FF currently uses. I'm just not big on them and it seems they are being made more and more of a focal point.

Luckily, Matsuno's comments on FFXII leave me optimisitc for the future. I've been looking forward to that game since before we even knew much about FFXI, simply because of his involvement.

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[color=#707875]Yeah...even the fact that you mention "dungeons" makes me think that FFVII isn't your cup of tea. ~_^

I don't think I'd even compare FFVII to traditional RPGs. Honestly, the more I think about it...it's kind of halfway between one genre and the next. I didn't particularly go in expecting an old school Final Fantasy, though.

In terms of plot devices...I agree that FMV tends to be over-used. However, what would other games do? They'd show that sequence in real time...or with text...or not at all. So, FMV is just a technique to do the same thing, really.

I enjoyed the FMV in FFVII, because it wasn't over-used. But in some later games (particularly FFIX), it was used frequently. I actually liked the FMV in FFIX because it was so gorgeous...but obviously it cut into playing time and it didn't really deliver much in the way of narrative.[/color]

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Yeah. I like dungeons. Perhaps I'm in the minority these days? lol FFX was even worse... Run in a straight line to the goal. Same with Suikoden III, actually, although I just found the game more involving than FFX, personally. In FF7, they were really just a few screens and that was that. Even FF6 had some nice ones. I miss it heh.

And yes, it's true that FMV sequences might be ran in real time... the main issue for me is that they often pull me out of the game entirely. Even if FFX, there's a massive difference between the quality of the FMV and real time graphics. Maybe this doesn't happen to other people? It affects me, that's all I know.

In FFX voice, due to the voices, the FMV could be used for story telling... but in most games preceding it on the console, there wee no voice overs. So any FMV that was included was simply eye candy, for the most part. I have to agree that it was well used in FF7, but eh.

I guess I'm just into other things. I still stand by my opinion on the FF7 US translation though heh.

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875]But I must ask a question about this dialogue business.

Am I the only one who would prefer text-only dialogue in games?
[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Absolutely not. I much prefer reading to spoken dialogue with only a couple exceptions (Metal Gear Solid being the most notable, though that didn't have nearly as much dialogue as a normal RPG, heh). I'm a pretty fast reader, anyway, so I generally have no troubles with text-only dialogue.

I wouldn't have a problem with spoken dialogue if companies would actually hire people who knew how to act to read the damn stuff. Nearly every single game I've heard with a voice acting crew just about made me cringe whenever the dialogue was read (again, with Metal Gear Solid just about being the lone exception). This was a big problem with FFX, as I did not enjoy the voices at all.

And if Link ever talks (and I don't count random screams during battle as talking), I will resort to playing Zelda games with the volume turned down - and I wouldn't enjoy that seeing as I love Zelda music and sound effects.

EDIT: And I agree with Tony about the U.S. FFVII translation - it was really bad lol. I should know, seeing as I've played the game enough times to notice it, heh.

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Semjaza Azazel [/i]
[B]As for Zelda, I totally agree. I don't want Link to EVER talk. Charles knows full well my opinion on that heh. [/B][/QUOTE]

Eeee! ^_^

I on the other hand, can't wait for Link to break his long silence. I feel that it could contribute positively to the game if done properly. Although physical gestures can be powerful devices for characterization (the hand-holding in Ico is a good example), and we get some of that in Zelda, spoken dialogue is an element I want to see explored.

I loved the characters in Wind Waker--they all had distinct personalities. But it felt like there was something missing in the presentation. Polish, I guess.

That's not to say Link should spew one-liners like Gex at every corner, or have audible conversations with [i]every[/i] villager. What I want to impress upon everyone, is how it [i]would[/i] most definitely add significant flair to climactic scenes.

As for Final Fantasy X--well, I'm probably in the minority here too. :blush:

I thought the voice acting suited the game perfectly. For example, the narrative was stunning. Having a more experienced Tidus tell the story through his eyes was a wonderful direction that pulled me in.

Admittedly, when I first heard about the developer's choice to include voice acting, I was skeptical. Fortunately, however, Square did an exceptional job with the casting and localization. Most of the characters spoke exactly how I would have imagined them to and with the exception of the overly soft-spoken Yuna, they did a nice job of keeping me entertained throughout breaks in the action. The FMV segments were brief as usual, with the summon spell animations standing out as the only glaring exception.

There are certain scenes I couldn't imagine being as effective without the voice talent in Final Fantasy X, though. [spoiler]Tidus's confrontation with his father within Sin, is one. I thought it was very moving. The moment he shared laughing alongside Yuna is another. It was very bitter sweet. Even his miscommunication with the Al Bhed on the deck of their ship towards the beginning of the game deserves a note of mention. Or, how about when Tidus went mad on the beach and dove into the ocean after Sin?[/spoiler]

This achievement was possible because we're in an age where video games [i]can[/i] have voice acting that contributes positively to the story. Many games are film caliber--or better in some cases.

Back in 1997 when Final Fantasy VII first released, I wouldn't have wanted voice acting included in the package. I'm glad the game was void of audible characters. The implementation of a voice track would have been an extremely risky move. The game's quality might have suffered because of it--as was the case with the majority of console games featuring voice acting at that point in time. A lot of it seemed forced and awkward. Just look at Resident Evil.

Plus, the localization process seemed arduous and drawn-out as it was. If Square couldn't port over the massive written narrative properly (within an entire year's time), I doubt they could cast proper voice talent or produce it in a satisfactory way. At least, not in a timely manner.

Should there ever be a remake though--I'll be more than happy to hear the characters speak. Who wouldn't love to hear Lance Bass reprise his role as Sephiroth?

As for dungeons--I prefer them more often than not. SKies of Arcadia and Zelda are terrific example of how dungeons should be constructed--as opposed to Wild Arm 3's dungeons or Final Fantasy X's cloister of trials, to a lesser extent. Dungeons should always be fun--never aggravating or confusing just for the sake of being so. It's also important that they fit into the context of the story. There's nothing worse than an out of place dungeon that shatters the illusion of fantasy created by an RPG.

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[color=#707875]I didn't mind the concept of having voice work in FFX -- and I thought that most of the voices were suitable (save for the awful acting with Yuna). The main problem I had was either a) lines being delivered badly or b) the inability to scroll through conversations more quickly.

I remember that there were a few parts where I'd saved before fighting a boss. And before the boss, I'd have to listen to a big conversation. That's fine -- but if I ever died on the boss, I'd have to go through that all over again...without any way of fast forwarding through it. It was really annoying, to the point where I'd simply not play because of that obstacle.

I wouldn't mind if there was voice in a Zelda game...primarily because I assume that Nintendo would do it justice. I mean, I could never have imagined Mario talking -- but Nintendo found someone who got his voice [i]just right[/i]. Now I'm really glad that Mario talks, because it's added to his persona so much more. And his voice is so utterly unmistakable.

Link has already had his "ugh" and "arrrgh!" type sounds in OoT and MM. And you'll notice that the young version of link always sound pretty much the same in any of the newer games. So presumably there's a relatively small extension to actually go from that to speech. But who knows.

Either way, I still don't mind reading text.

Also...the mention of voice in Final Fantasy's FMV is an interesting thing. I think that the lack of voice in the FMV of pre-FFX games was actually something that worked to the game's benefit. It was like watching a silent movie, I guess.

I remember the part in FFVIII when Squall encounters Edea at the end of the first disc...and when he [spoiler]falls off the float, with Rinoa calling out...and the camera panning out rapidly over the city.[/spoiler]

I thought that was really effective; voice may have actually hurt it. You could sort of hear her scream, but as a background element. It was like this awful tragedy had occurred and everyone else in the crowd was oblivious. It was also as though her scream was reaching out across the entire city in that sequence. I think it just captured the emotion very well. In that sense, I think Square always did the FMV very well -- it wasn't there just for no reason...it was there to express an idea or an emotion. Real time graphics would never have been able to achieve that, really.

It reminds me of when [spoiler]Cloud drops Aeris' body into the pool when she dies[/spoiler]. That just couldn't have been done the same way with real-time graphics. The FMV gave it a sense of heightened emotion.

As far as it being jarring going between FMV and real time...I never really thought about it. I guess because I was just able to imagine it working together. I mean, I didn't have to always see the FMV to get an impression in my head of how those characters looked. It's like using icons to represent something. I don't know how I'd explain it. I can see how it would be jarring though, especially if you aren't used to FMV at that point. But I always really saw it as an effective tool -- provided that it doesn't take up the bulk of my time, or that it actually does something relevant to the story.[/color]

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[color=indigo]I agree with James; I really liked how they used FMV in FFVII. As I was reading his last post, I was thinking "[spoiler]Aeris' death scene[/spoiler]" the whole time. I can't imagine that being done with voices. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I just get a feeling of what the characters are thinking and feeling when I watch that scene. It's like words just aren't necessary because all the characters already know what the others are thinking, and from your experience with them earlier in the game, you do too. I thought that was the most well done scene in the entire game, whether or not I felt sad or whatever about [spoiler]Aeris dying[/spoiler]. It was just very well put together.

Also, I think dialogue can be incorporated with FMV without the use of voice acting. Just look at FFVII's ending. The characters talk in it using subtitles, while the whole thing is FMV. For me, that fit in perfectly. It wasn't until my second time watching the ending that I realized "Hey, they're talking during an FMV." It fit in because I knew the characters, I had my own voices for them in my mind, and I knew how they would be saying the lines. I don't see it as any different from reading text during real-time sequences.

I don't have anything against voice acting when it's done well, but for an RPG where there's going to be a lot of dialogue, I'd prefer plain text. Or at least the option of having subtitles and being able to skip the spoken dialogue once I've read the text, or turning the spoken dialogue off and only having the subtitles. For a game like Zelda, I think I would like voice acting if, as I said before, it was done well. If a game doesn't have a lot of dialogue and the game's focus is more on the action and less on the story, I really wouldn't mind. Maybe it's because I read a lot, so RPGs seem sort of like books with worlds that I can see and interact with, but I just prefer reading and having my own voices for characters when the dialogue holds a lot of importance. It feels more like I'm part of the story that way.[/color]

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EEEH!!!

I can see Barret!!! And Cid (?)...

Sadly that Aeris-Cloud scene is just a flashback, but it still gives a little hope that maybe...

I can sense that BLUE is going to be the main color theme of the game... ("How did you ever guess?!")

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This movie looks like it's going to be awesome. The pic of ruined Midgar reminds me of the Secret Sequence at the end of the game. The person silohuetted by the moon is mistifying me though. Is it Vincent? Or some new character?

And with the Aeris and Cloud pic maybe it's a ressurection of the Aeris Ressurection storyline from FF7? The one they had to supposedly cut because of time pressures.

--EDIT--
Forgot to ad this. Barret looks kinda like Snoop Dogg with the hair there...

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[URL]http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~nanko/movies/ff7ac-jf.wmv[/URL]

[color=crimson]Here's a new trailer. The quality isn't too good(wierd angle...). It's got some old footage from the first trailer, but it does show a few new things that weren't in the first, all with "Holding My Thoughts in My Heart" playing in the background, and also, you'll hear a few characters' voices(I think).[/color]

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CompletelyRando [/i]
[B] The person silohuetted by the moon is mistifying me though. Is it Vincent? Or some new character? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well the text that's with the pic mentions Vincent's name, so it might be him.
But I'm not good with Kanji, so I don't know what it really says.

As for the new trailer, all I could get was audio. Oh well, it probably had a bad camera angle anyways.:D

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[COLOR=darkblue]I liked the Trailer.
But it truely was on a terrible angle.
It's as if someone was sitting in the bottom right corner of a Movie theater and was shooting a video up at the screen.

But I still liked it anyway.You could hear Cloud's voice in it.I don't know who the girl's voice is.Could be any of the girls from the game.But I'm thinking Aeris.

I liked the music in the background.It gave it a nice touch.

And WW2 is correct.In the captions with the pic,there is the name Vincent.But also,like WW2 I haven't learned Kanji yet.I learn it next year!

From what I can see and Read from the Scan.
There's Cloud,Cid,Barret,Vincent,Aeris and Sephiroth.[/color]

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[size=1]The guy in the infront of the moon looks a lot like Vincent, so I guess it is him. I thought if Barret would be in the movie he would have a more of a Mr. T look........ I guess he doesn't.

*Does not see Cid*

I think this "bad guy" has people helping them, because they all have the same kind of guns and are fighting Cloud in on picture. From what I saw the CG looks very good, but I am not awed because it has been done with FF: The Spirts Within and Flight of Orisis.[/size]

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[color=silver]There's always the possibility of the men being the [i]Turks[/i]. If you do not remember who they are, I'll slap you. My reasons for thinking this?

1. Similar suits
2. Gangster-like, dirty weaponry like fire-arms.
3. I could see sunglasses and that is the biggest hint of all. *Joking*

Well you can think what you like but I stand by my decision.[/color]

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Im with Desbreko on this. That FMV scene was amazingly done. I perfer voice acting if the acting is tasteful. I hate playing a game where one of the main characters has an annoying voice or a horrible actor. FFX, that had great voice acting. So did Kingdom Hearts. Either way, Advent Children could have the voice actor that they had in Kingdom Hearts, that would be cool, this is minus Lance Bass as Sephiroth.

I wish they would make another FF7 game, it was one of the main reasons I am still playing RPGs today. It took me on an adventure and showed me a new world. I loved the story and the twists. I will settle for a movie, because something is better than nothing.

Semjaza, you said you didnt like the story in FF7, correct? Can I ask if you have played Legend of Dragoon, and if you have, what you thought of it?

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