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[font=trebuchet ms]Well, that clears up a few things. OB politics? Fantastic, that'll make life more interesting! Just as long as it doesn't turn into one of those Anthology fanfics where the elitist older members go around killing newbies.[quote name='Ezekiel][font=verdana][size=1]They do a great job, but my main concern was the fact that members, like JJ, Sakura, The Boss etc who have been on the Boards for a long time, have had consistent post quality and always follow the rules don't get recognition they deserve.[/size'][/font][/quote]Come on, since when were Moderator titles a symbol of 'recognition'? You MAMA guys evidently recognise each other's worth as OB members. We don't have a gold star system, the best 'recognition' you can hope for is the respect of other members and you all have that already.[/font]
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[quote name='Athena][size=1']MAMA stands for "Members Against Mods and Admins". It's a group that's been "secretive" about their angst/anger/whatever the crap you want to call it of how they perceive the OB now from back-in-the-day. They're upset about all the new mods, the poor quality in posts these days, how "n00bs" are running the scene, and about how they feel that "oldies" are being treated poorly (mainly because they're sour that they aren't mods themselves instead of the new members). [/size][/quote]

[color=crimson]Oh, man. That's just so.. dumb.

I mean, seriously. What the [i]hell[/i].[/color]
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[quote name='Raiyuu][font=trebuchet ms']Well, that clears up a few things. OB politics? Fantastic, that'll make life more interesting! Just as long as it doesn't turn into one of those Anthology fanfics where the elitist older members go around killing newbies.Come on, since when were Moderator titles a symbol of 'recognition'? You MAMA guys evidently recognise each other's worth as OB members. We don't have a gold star system, the best 'recognition' you can hope for is the respect of other members and you all have that already.[/font][/quote]
[color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]Even though I don't necessarily agree with MAMA's idea of OB, you have to give them some recognition.

They kept what they were doing a secret, not troubling anyone. They aren't looking to start a movement or anything, it's just a small group for members with the same idea who rant with eachother.

This reminds me of when PiroMunkie started a movement to stop DW's sexy glory. 'Cept that was comical. [/FONT] [/COLOR]
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Having said that, only OB has an original enough community to gain the aspects of a well-written dramatic story. We got the supposed corrupted government, the ones who support them, the crazy rebel group, and then the normal folks who stand out and eat cornflakes out of their hats. I, for one, like to eat Fruit Loops out of my cap. :)

I feel a story idea coming... I must write!
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[quote name='Raiyuu][font=trebuchet ms']Come on, since when were Moderator titles a symbol of 'recognition'? You MAMA guys evidently recognise each other's worth as OB members. We don't have a gold star system, the best 'recognition' you can hope for is the respect of other members and you all have that already.[/font][/quote]

[SIZE=1]Yeah, you're right about that =/ I think that (personaly speaking, here) my need for recognition got a little out-of-hand. After reading a couple of posts after Annie's I actually feel a little ashamed at having MAMA in my sig which is in no way how someone should feel for something they supposedly believe in. I forgot the words of DeathKnight, when we had our first conversation: "You don't need to be a moderator to be recognised, they're just glorified janitors who clean up after everyone else."

Haha, do I ever feel like an [I]idiot[/I] now.

And Sandy, I do agree with you about being immature, but I think the comment about our 'attitudes' was unfair. As far as I can tell, none of us have shown any attitude toward anyone since having MAMA in our signatures, which is why no one knew what it was. *shrugs*

And with that I bow out of this thread, feeling like a stupid child. =/[/SIZE]
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Well, I do have a variety of criticisms I can make here since we're all voicing our opinions. Perhaps some members of this illustrious organization will address them.

It's cool having members discuss their criticisms and vent frustrations between one another. I've done that here; it's pretty natural. But, I feel there comes a point where a healthy interest can manifest itself into an unhealthy obsession. That's what we have here.

First of all, AC!D!C's original post demonstrates poor etiquette. I personally don't mind being singled out; this isn't my first barbeque. I've dealt with a public complaint or two about an avatar before. But, his entire post was, to be blunt, pretty crappy. To begin with, his tone was very "holier than thou" in just about every sense of the word. He generalized new members, and suggested banning those whose post quality isn't immediately fantastic. He also seems to insinuate that there has been a degeneration of policy in which the rules aren't enforced as heavily as they once were. Look, I served on the staff for [i]years[/i] and I can say that, when it comes to basic post quality, staff members have [i]always[/i] made it a prerogative to give new members a lenient window of improvement opportunity. Members often receive private messages asking them to improve, and these members have the opportunity to ask staff members for advice. That's only fair. If the problem is behavioral, then that may be a different story.

Next, I thought it was lame the way he singled out a lot of staff members. There are ways to issue a public concern without pointing fingers. When a lot of these people take their time to volunteer to moderate the boards, it's downright rude and unnecessary to incriminate them in this way. Worse yet, it's became obvious with all this MAMA nonsense that his ranting was part of his selfish, immature, incredibly stupid agenda as a member of this group. Which, leads me to my next point.

If I had a nickel for the amount of silly OB doom-saying I've heard over the years, about the forum quality slipping, etc, I would be able to purchase Microsoft. People just don't get it. Go back to the first page in Otaku Lounge. Look at the post quality. Can you even draw a comparison? It was terrible!

My opinion, and I'm laying the cards on the table, is that this group is the most nerdy, pathetic thing I've ever seen--and I'm a big dork myself! A secret group of nerds gather around to complain about not having staff positions? If this is a primary concern of yours, I think your best interests are to get some fresh air and to lead a more fulfilling life. People should post here in their leisure because they enjoy the discussion--not to stomp their feet for shallow recognition, not because they feel they [i]deserve[/i] anything. When something like OtakuBoards becomes something more, when it becomes a pressing point in your lives or an obsession, you need to sit back and evaluate yourselves.

And, if you think the only way you can contribute to the boards is by becoming a staff member, then you're probably not a very good member regardless of when you joined.
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[QUOTE=Athena][size=1]Okay, I have something to bring to everyone's attention. I'm doing this because I'm very angry with the other members of MAMA. This is ri-goddamn-diculous about how these members are just leaving AC!D!C out to get picked apart. He took a risk, and posted because the other members have been to chicken-**** to post. So here it goes, to the best of my sane ability.

MAMA stands for "Members Against Mods and Admins". It's a group that's been "secretive" about their angst/anger/whatever the crap you want to call it of how they perceive the OB now from back-in-the-day. They're upset about all the new mods, the poor quality in posts these days, how "n00bs" are running the scene, and about how they feel that "oldies" are being treated poorly (mainly because they're sour that they aren't mods themselves instead of the new members). Honestly, I did go through an angst stage that I'd been here for a long time, and felt I didn't get the recognition I felt I deserved. Over the past six months or so, I just don't care anymore.

However, this group still does...and the issues AC!D!C posted on were not from his own mouth/mind, but from the members of MAMA who have done [b]NOTHING[/b] to back him up, or themselves up. Their excuse to not backing Joe up? "I don't see how it would help at this point now."

So, grow up, or speak up.[/size][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Alright Annie seeing as you basically just exposed everyone of us in the group, including those of us like myself who only joined MAMA last week and didn't notice the thread until about five minutes ago, I'll speak up.

MAMA better known as Members Against Moderators and Administrators was group founded on a simple ideal: Make OB a better place for all it's members, new and old by creating a place where we could gather evidence that could not be ignored against staff members we felt were not doing their jobs properly. This was not a case of Oldies rebelling against a system that we felt favoured n00bs and left older members out in the cold, it was a case of those of those of us who genuinely care about OB wanting to repay the forums for years of entertainment and friendship.

Now for those Moderators and/or Administrators who are about to jump down my throat I should remind them that the group was only ever against those Moderators and Administrators whom we felt were not doing their job, Bio was the first one raised although I must admit I do not use the Underground enough to have noticed. A lot of you do great jobs regardless of what ages you are or how many posts you have, however there are those of you who simply do not do the jobs we expect from someone in your position, and because we needed somewhere independent to discuss those we felt were not up to the task it was obvious we needed to go off-site to do it.

Those of you who feel this group is somehow a stupid idea, or an Oldie-only club for those who feel they were passed over for Modship are entitled to your opinions, but I personally say you're wrong on every account. We are a group who were dedicated to improving the genuine quality of the site on the quiet, so that people like Joe wouldn't have to create these kinds of threads in order to see positive changes. Unfortunately thanks to Annie's little out-burst we won't be able to do that any more, but perhaps with more time we would have been able to do some good work.

There genuinely are things wrong with the way OB is run, we're desperately short of Moderators in some areas, most notably the Arena which has descended into a condition not seen in years. I don't blame Sarah, but I reported a thread over a week ago that still hasn't been locked, the Arena has never had so few mods, not in five years and we feel that something needs to be done now rather than after "the coming update".

So Annie, well done, I salute and applaud to your destruction of a group that only ever had the good of OB at heart.[/SIZE]
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[color=navy][size=1]

[b]Gavin[/b] hit the nail on the head. The original intentions of our group were nothing short of just wanting the best for the Boards. I repeat again, I hold no grudge against any Mod or any member.

[b]Ozy[/b], I hold no grudge against you at all. You're a great member, RPer, and writer. I was simply commenting on the fact that I don't see you involved with as many RPGs as would be expected of a person that is head of the Arena. I am in no way blaiming you for any lack of quality. I firmly believe that there just needs to be more Staff in the general area for it to be more successful.

It was never the intention of this thread for [b]MAMA[/b], [b]Viva Otaku[/b], or any other group to be revealed, as it was a matter that we had hoped to keep to ourselves for sometime and resolve our issues in a much more subtle manner.

I understand that many of you may feel that our member's are 'immature' or 'stupid'. Let it be known that we never had ill-inentions. We we're simply concerned with the way some things were going down in the OBs. Never did we mean to attack any individual. But still, I'm sticking to my guns. I am a part of this, so I take any responsibility or penalty for the words that have been said.

I hope this doesn't change a thing in any freindship I have made with anyone on the Boards, for this was never a personal vendetta against anybody. Just a voicing of opinions. Nothing more.

Peace,

[b]The Boss[/b]

[b]PS-[/b] This is in no way a 'cry' for me to become a Moderator. I could care less for that position. I find it upsetting other members, including one of our own, misconstrued that meaning. Alot of things have been taken the wrong way, and I suppose nothing will fix that.[/color][/size]
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[Font=Arial]I'm incredibly surprised and proud of the way MAMA members are handling things. I'm very pleased no one's named names and played the blame game and I salute every one of you who's posted.

I am the creator of MAMA and I take full responisbility for this. Like The Boss said, this was not the way I intended for MAMA to be thrown out into public, because I knew this was the response that we'd get.

Athena, you had no right to fling MAMA out in the open like that. What information you had the group was about a month or two old and you had no idea what was going on currently. I mean this in no offense to AC!D!C, but he acted without consulting anyone other than The Boss. Why should we have to throw ourselves and cover one's *** when he decides to make a show of himself?

I don't want to hear any **** of standing behind your members, because to be quite honest, I don't give a ****. If you have guidelines set down and your members know them, why should you be the one responsible for their actions? The responsibility lies not on that of the group, but on that of the person, for he broke the rules. I'm not saying AD!C!D did anything wrong, I'm just saying that this was not sanctioned by MAMA as a group.

So yeah, you want your nerdy leader? You got him right here.

And let it be known here, I honestly hold no grudge what so ever against any of the mods. I may have a problem with them or the way they do things, but that's just something I need to get over.[/font]
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[SIZE=1]This is probably the first time I posted outside the Arena for sometime but? can I just say something?

I wouldn?t even call myself an oldie but to those of you who are complaining about not getting enough recognition then being a moderator probably isn?t the answer. Try and manage your daily lives and try and manage a section of this forum 24/7. Apparently, that seems to be the only way to ensure the quality you want. Moderators can?t read through every post. Moderators can?t be online all the time. And, if you become a moderator and you?re an oldie, don?t you think other members will feel that?s favouritism for old members?

If you?re an oldie then that should be enough. And if you?re an oldie who visits regularly, then huzzah for you. I often look at someone?s name, from a very old thread, and laugh and say I remember them, even if I haven?t been here for four years yet. Heck, I only realised I used to talk to Revelation on AIM years ago. Point is there are some oldies who don?t post anymore, or hardly do, yet you complain you don?t get the recognition you deserve? I think that, no offence to you Athena, being an oldie has made you arrogant. Your length of time on the boards shouldn?t give you more respect, rather respect should be given for what you do here. Not a lot of people probably know me, I wonder why? maybe because I never really post. A moderator status and your length of time won?t get you recognised.

Alright, I do agree with parts of what you?re saying, especially giving things back to OB. It?s fine you have your own discussions about moderators and your own disagreement about your unfair treatment, though there?s probably a reason you weren?t picked as a moderator. Whether it be you?re not online as often as others or you just weren?t around at the time new moderators were being picked, I don?t know, I just think that if you?re upset for not being picked as a moderator then maybe you should realise that they [I]don?t always[/I] get the respect and recognition they want. Members in this thread have clearly shown that moderators don?t get the respect you think, or even noticed (I?ll admit I didn?t even know half the moderators until I checked the list, which I frequently have to, so I bet I?m not the only one).

I also think it was a little immature to single out moderators. I think you should try and moderator such a large section as Ozy, we?ll see how far you get. Go and do all that, stay online for 24 hours reading through all the open threads and make sure they?re right and then you can go back to your personal life? you can?t expect them to run everything and their own life. Moderators are people and they make mistakes, and they?re not perfect either. Room for improvement, yes, so maybe you shouldn?t single them out. I most certainly wouldn?t like my name appearing as a negative in a thread. Though I guess now people seem to have calmed down my point's not very valid... I reckon you can post your own opinions about a moderators performce, only if you're reasonable (not naming any names here...)

Yeah and I?m proud of my crap I just wrote above. It?s probably disorganised and? just wrong in general? though I felt for once I should come out of hiding from the Arena and give my opinion. No offence attended at anyone, of course, and I wasn?t directing this to all members of MAMA (I have to admit I like the name, though).[/SIZE]
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[quote name='Sandy]Eh, I once (or twice) have started a similar type of thread in this very section, and although I nod to James's reasonings, I don't think this thread's criticism is [I]totally[/I] undeserved like Des suggested. At least not in the sense that [I]any[/I'] criticism is undeserved, because feedback is always good - it either helps you realize the problems or strengthen your view that everything is just fine.[/quote][color=#4B0082]I wasn't necessarily saying that all the criticism in this thread is undeserved. I was only addressing the age-based arguments. Those criticisms I think are definitely undeserved, as there have been a number of younger mods over the years--including myself and the ones mentioned in this thread--who have done great jobs.[/color]

[quote name='Athena]What the hell? You guys have IMed me, PMed me, RANTED AT/WITH ME about these such pressing issues, yet you are going to just sit here and do absolutely nothing; and let someone else take the fall? That excuse of "you're on your own now, nothing can help you" is not flying by me smoothly, at all. You're a member of this MAMA, [b]say something on your part[/b'], damn it.[/quote][color=#4B0082]I just want to point out that no one is taking a fall here. People may disagree with some or all of the complaints posted by AC!D!C, but it's not like he's going to be shunned because of it or anything. And he's certainly not going to be banned. Like Sandy said, OB isn't a dictatorship where leveling criticism at the mods/admins gets you in trouble.[/color]

[quote name='Athena']Furthermore, if you have such drastic concerns, all you have to do is talk to James or Des. Both are very understanding, and will listen to whatever you have to say. I understand that it's very inimidating to some people, but I assure you that James and Des are both extremely pleasant and so easy to talk to.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Annie speaks the truth. I will always listen to and consider any concerns members bring to me. I may not agree with them, in which case I'll explain why, but I don't disregard things just because they're negative comments about the site and/or staff.[/color]

[quote name='Ezekiel']I talk to quite a few of the mods and consider a few of them friends. They do a great job, but my main concern was the fact that members, like JJ, Sakura, The Boss etc who have been on the Boards for a long time, have had consistent post quality and always follow the rules don't get recognition they deserve.[/quote][color=#4B0082]Being a moderator isn't about recognition at all. If what Annie posted about this MAMA group is accurate, that seems to be a big misconception here. Moderators are chosen with the wellbeing of the site in mind, and whoever I and James think is going to do the best job, that's who gets the position. So long as someone is sufficiently acquainted with the site and how things work, the amount of time they've been registered and the number of posts they've made is not taken into account whatsoever. It's not about who "deserves" the position, it's about who is going to do the best.

If oldies want recognition, [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=52384][u]they already got it[/u][/url], and they may be [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=53509][u]getting more in the future[/u][/url]. If oldies want responsibility, they're going to have to show that they'd be more capable as a moderator than newer members.[/color]

[quote name='Dragon Warrior']I feel a story idea coming... I must write![/quote][color=#4B0082]This should make for a juicy DailyOtaku article. :p[/color]

[quote name='Ezekiel']I forgot the words of DeathKnight, when we had our first conversation: "You don't need to be a moderator to be recognised, they're just glorified janitors who clean up after everyone else."[/quote][color=#4B0082]That is very true. Being a moderator isn't some ticket to being popular, and you can get plenty of recognition without being one. Heck, just look at Dragon Warrior here; he's (in)famous around OB and I don't think he's ever been a moderator.[/color]

[quote name='Gavin']Now for those Moderators and/or Administrators who are about to jump down my throat...[/quote][color=#4B0082]I'm not going to jump down your throat, and I should hope none of the other mods/admins do. Turning this into an us vs. them situation would just be stupid. In fact, I'm glad you posted in here, Gavin, as your post is very reasonable and brings up some valid concerns.

From your description of the group, I have nothing against MAMA. I think the motives you listed are great. Like I've said, I'm always ready to listen to concerns that members have with staff and anything else. This thread doesn't have to mean the end of the group.

But this thread is not exactly, "on the quiet." If you guys want to raise concerns in this forum for people to discuss, that's fine. But if someone wants to point fingers and single out specific staff members who they have problems with, this is not the place. They can do that privately in a PM to me and I'll look into their concerns.

As for the lack of staff in The Arena, I'm aware of that. But I would ask people to please understand that hiring good moderators is not an easy job. I've been working to fill out the site's staff since being given the responsibility, and I am continuing to work on it. Right now I'm looking into filling out Tokyo 3, which will hopefully be done within the next few days, and after that my attention is going to turn to The Arena.[/color]
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[font=trebuchet ms][quote=MAMA]MAMA better known as Members Against Moderators and Administrators

I honestly hold no grudge what so ever against any of the mods.[/quote]Catchy as it is, the MAMA acronym doesn't seem to accurately reflect the feelings of its cardinal member. How about MATS - Members Against The System? If there's no grudge against mods then the name of the group is pretty misleading.[/font]
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[QUOTE=Desbreko][color=#4B0082]If oldies want recognition, [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=52384][u]they already got it[/u][/url], and they may be [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=53509][u]getting more in the future[/u][/url]. If oldies want responsibility, they're going to have to show that they'd be more capable as a moderator than newer members.[/color]

[color=#4B0082]I'm not going to jump down your throat, and I should hope none of the other mods/admins do. Turning this into an us vs. them situation would just be stupid. In fact, I'm glad you posted in here, Gavin, as your post is very reasonable and brings up some valid concerns.

From your description of the group, I have nothing against MAMA. I think the motives you listed are great. Like I've said, I'm always ready to listen to concerns that members have with staff and anything else. This thread doesn't have to mean the end of the group.

But this thread is not exactly, "on the quiet." If you guys want to raise concerns in this forum for people to discuss, that's fine. But if someone wants to point fingers and single out specific staff members who they have problems with, this is not the place. They can do that privately in a PM to me and I'll look into their concerns.

As for the lack of staff in The Arena, I'm aware of that. But I would ask people to please understand that hiring good moderators is not an easy job. I've been working to fill out the site's staff since being given the responsibility, and I am continuing to work on it. Right now I'm looking into filling out Tokyo 3, which will hopefully be done within the next few days, and after that my attention is going to turn to The Arena.[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Thanks Des, kick me while I'm down by bringing up that topic as a way to get recognition. ;) However I do feel the need to point out as others have, and that has been seriously missed by those non-MAMA members, is that MAMA was [B]never[/B] about recognition, it was never about us getting people we didn't like booted out of their staff positions and getting one of us put in there. I mean so many of us have Mods for friends, and hope to continue those friendships even in the aftermath of this that it should be seen as completely absurd that this was ever about Oldie recognition.

This was always about the common good, the fact the group was independent of OB should stress that, after all you don't get much recognition when nobody knows you're responsible. We went off OB to do it, because of exactly what happened when the group was exposed, people thought it was a stupid idea. The very idea that some group of members might have a problem with some staff members and would feel the need to start an independent group to try and address the problem seems stupid because most people don't see our problems. But I do stand behind the idea the group was founded on.

I think the thing about the Arena Des is that it is the stomping grounds of so many of us, it was only natural that we were going to call for change there. We really do have nothing against Sarah, I think she's a good Mod and a great person, but severely swamped in somewhere like the Adventure Square which has traditionally always had two moderators to split the work, and where applicable a third in the form of the Category Moderator. Now I'm not sending a broadside volley at Josh, I mean God nobody has contributed more to the Arena than him over the years. But you have to admit Des, when you hear the "in the coming weeks" speech too often, you begin to lose heart.[/SIZE]

[quote name='Raiyuu][font=trebuchet ms']Catchy as it is, the MAMA acronym doesn't seem to accurately reflect the feelings of its cardinal member. How about MATS - Members Against The System? If there's no grudge against mods then the name of the group is pretty misleading.[/font][/quote]

[SIZE=1]Well I must admit Raiyuu that I did stress the need to change the group name from MAMA to something less provocative because of how badly I knew the name would be received if the group ever came to light. I know that's a lot of ifs, but I suppose in all reality we were going to be found out. I'm not saying that others held a more hard-line set of beliefs than I did, I'm just saying the name was poorly chosen to reflect the groups intentions. [/SIZE]
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[quote name='Raiyuu']Catchy as it is, the MAMA acronym doesn't seem to accurately reflect the feelings of its cardinal member.[/quote]

Haha, I did find the name MAMA a bit unusual. If the acronym is said as it's spelt, we're talking about someone's mother here. And everyone will take offense thinking it's some kind of Mom joke.

Your MAMA's so fat, she got hungry while surfing the web, so she ate her internet cookies!
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[quote name='Desbreko][color=#4B0082]If oldies want recognition, [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=52384][u]they already got it[/u][/url], and they may be [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=53509][u]getting more in the future[/u][/url'].[/color][/quote]
[size=1]I don't know if I should take some sort of offense to this, or something, but I figured I might as well chime in. Certainly The Nifty Fifty tends to include older members who have established themselves better in the community, but the final list is only created from the nominations we receive from the member base itself. if someone doesn't feel like the N50 isn't rewarding enough to younger/older members then the only way to correct that is by participating. The N50 was created to give all aspects of the boards equal recognition, not just older members.

I take a little offense to the idea that these award events are created merely to give the oldies a backrub, although I'm sure that's not really what you meant.

Also:[/size]
[quote name='"Interesting. Most interesting..."][size=1']Now I'm not sending a broadside volley at Josh, I mean God nobody has contributed more to the Arena than him over the years. But you have to admit Des, when you hear the "in the coming weeks" speech too often, you begin to lose heart[/size][/quote]
[size=1]Huh? I'm guessing you are referring to the fact that I have asusred you on multiple occasions that your concerns about staff placement in The Arena (and elsewhere) will be resolved "in the coming weeks." I can't speak for everyone, but the majority of staff members here are full-time students (even during our Summer break) and work full-time on top of that. I know I do. Between those things and everday life it's easy for very active forums like The Arena to become a bit of a mess.

Ozy is the last person to blame for it, as I see these alleged 'oldies' posting just as much crap on the boards as anyone else. Certainly more staff are needed for that particular area, but history has proven time and time again that members who are qualified to become mods are few and far between. Even while being so inactive Bio's section of the boards were some of the finest around, in terms of overall quality.

It should also be noted that a staff member's inactivity may be for any number of personal reasons. These absences are noted in the staff forum, but we don't make a point of posting bulletins like "So and so isn't going to be moderating for a few weeks because their Aunt Petunia died." Activity is completely relative, anyway. I may post a handful of times during the week, but I'm often visiting the boards two or three times a day.

Countering this thread's personal attacks on staff members with personal attacks on the members who posted this thread is completely absurd. As members of the OB staff we walk around the boards with targets on our heads. Deal with it. While the way these complaints were dished out was rather rude, it's not as if there is some truth to them. At least someone is being honest with the way they feel the boards are run and now the topic is being discussed by the entire forum. Hopefully both sides will benefit from whatever changes are made as a result of this topic.

On a much lighter note, it's ironic that the member who got rid of Newbie Lounge would be criticized so harshly in a blatantly 'Anti-Newbie" thread.

-Shy[/size]
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[QUOTE=Shy][size=1]I don't know if I should take some sort of offense to this, or something, but I figured I might as well chime in. Certainly The Nifty Fifty tends to include older members who have established themselves better in the community, but the final list is only created from the nominations we receive from the member base itself. if someone doesn't feel like the N50 isn't rewarding enough to younger/older members then the only way to correct that is by participating. The N50 was created to give all aspects of the boards equal recognition, not just older members.

I take a little offense to the idea that these award events are created merely to give the oldies a backrub, although I'm sure that's not really what you meant.[/size][/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]Well, I was talking about the award given specifically to oldies. But I couldn't link directly to that.[/color]

[quote][center][img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e366/nifty_fifty/oldies.jpg[/img]
[b]Oldies[/b][/center]

?Been here four years or more? You are officially part of OB lore and, as such, immortalised. And it's not just because everyone knows who you are, but your legacy runs through the veins of the very site. DeathKnight, Desbreko, Tony, Adam, James, Dragon Warrior, Shy and Lore to name only a few of the most influential members on the board. They are not Nifty. Nifty is them.?

[right][i]- Solo Tremaine[/i][/right][/quote]
[size=1][color=darkblue][b]Fair enough, Dessypants. -Shy[/color][/b][/size]
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[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]I would like to address the issue of Charles' (and any other members') suggestive avatars. Sorry, Charles, I don't mean to single you out again, I would not have mentioned you if others have not already. I would simply send a PM.

But while we're on the topic, I think avatars like that should not be allowed. There's no reason why such crude and tasteless images should be allowed on a high quality site like O.B. And it would be really dumb for members to leave if a small rule like that was implemented. Sorry, Charles, but your recent avatars show disrespect for females, and even though the new one looks less crude that the previous one, it gives the message that women are objects.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

See, I don't mind if it's brought up respectfully like this but here's the thing: not once has anyone approached me with a complaint until today in this very thread. And these are people I barely interact with. Case in point, I could probably count on one hand the number of threads I post in with you, Chabichou.

It seems only since I re-joined the staff have people singled me out and taken exception to my profile. In fact, over the months I've been using my previous avatar, I've received private messages stating the contrary; people have actually [I]complimented[/I] my avatar and asked where I found it. Heck, even people within this very thread expressed approval over my new avatar.

Also, I really don't think my taste is very crude. Maybe in the context of an anime message board some might find it offensive--but I hardly find it appalling. There is no actual nudity on display and I doubt that if a female or homosexual male had an avatar of a shirtless guy posing that many people would complain that she's sending a message that men are objects. Most importantly, my posts (which are almost exclusive to the gaming forum anyway) don't reflect that kind of chauvinistic ideology either. Someone earlier mentioned moderators as role models for other members, and I think that my quality of thought measures up to that.

I generally don't like to compromise who I am but like I said, if some people are genuinely unhappy with an avatar belonging to a guy who basically posts in one forum, then handle it correctly. Contact me in a respectful way and I'll change it. Don't sit on some complaint about your dad walking in on you and decide to spring it on me out of nowhere in a public thread. That's just stupid. If I know it's bothersome to you on that level, of course I'm going to accommodate you.

And yes, as Shy hinted, [i]I[/i] killed Newbie Lounge. ME! And, suffice to say, "Throw Mama From The Train" is one of my favorite movies, so if MAMA messes with me, I'll kill MAMA too! Mwhahahahaha.
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[QUOTE=Charles]
Don't sit on some complaint about your dad walking in on you and decide to spring it on me out of nowhere in a public thread. That's just stupid. If I know it's bothersome to you on that level, of course I'm going to accommodate you.[/QUOTE]

[color=navy][size=1]

[b]Charles[/b], I kind of feel this was directed towards me. Take note that my computer is in the living room right beside the TV. So it is kind of natural that my dad, whilst watching TV catches a glance of the computer screen just a few feet to the right and sees your avatar, I wouldn't blame him for jumping to conclusions.

Also take note that I was simply commenting on what was said by [b]AC!D!C[/b] in his post. I handled my words in a polite way when I said as such, so I don't see why that would warrant this sort of response from you.

On another note, I'm glad [b]Desbreko[/b] seems to understand us to a certain degree. I thank you for your calmness in dealing with us. I continue to hold my beliefs and stand on the grounds that I hold no vendetta agains the current mods personally.[/color][/size]
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[COLOR=#503F86]I come to these boards to read and post about stuff I'm interested in, not to get a kick out of seeing my username everywhere.

I enjoyed being a Moderator, but there were times when I knew I wasn't performing as well as I should have been for whatever reason. And with the Staff situation as it was when I left, it was really hard for me to just walk out when there would have been no-one dedicated solely to the Anime Forum. But I just didn't have time, and my connection was screwing me around for a good few weeks. By leaving I dumped a whole load more work on Dagger, who, as then-recently appointed Administrator, had far more important things to be getting on with.

Personally, I haven't seen any significant change in post quality over recent months; even since the beginning of v7, to be honest. It's just as good as it ever was.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=The Boss][color=navy][size=1]

[b]Charles[/b], I kind of feel this was directed towards me. Take note that my computer is in the living room right beside the TV. So it is kind of natural that my dad, whilst watching TV catches a glance of the computer screen just a few feet to the right and sees your avatar, I wouldn't blame him for jumping to conclusions.

Also take note that I was simply commenting on what was said by [b]AC!D!C[/b] in his post. I handled my words in a polite way when I said as such, so I don't see why that would warrant this sort of response from you.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to sound rude and I'm not blaming him for jumping to conclusions. What I'm saying is, that when it happened, it probably wouldn't have been a bad idea to, you know, let me know about it instead of bringing it up in the middle of a witch hunt. lol

I don't want to get anyone into trouble for something they're not doing.
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[quote name='Charles']What I'm saying is, that when it happened, it probably wouldn't have been a bad idea to, you know, let me know about it instead of bringing it up in the middle of a witch hunt.[/quote]

Hmm... more ideas for a story are coming to mind :D Bounty hunters after officials and supporters. Otaku[b]Boards[/b] is such a big open book :)

Having said that, I would like to say I'm probably the one out of everybody on the boards that likes attention the most. I like to feel recognized, I s'pose. But I think I can be recognized by what I post rather than what position I am in. I'm not taking a stab at anyone here when I say that. I'm just laying it out that you don't need to be a staff member to make a change in OB.
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[quote name='Gavin][SIZE=1]MAMA better known as [size=2][b]Members Against Moderators and Administrators[/b][/size] was group founded on a simple ideal: [SIZE=2][B]Make OB a better place for all it's members[/B][/SIZE'], new and old by creating a place where we could gather evidence that could not be ignored against staff members we felt were not doing their jobs properly. This was not a case of Oldies rebelling against a system that we felt favoured n00bs and left older members out in the cold, it was a case of those of those of us who genuinely care about OB wanting to repay the forums for years of entertainment and friendship.[/SIZE][/quote]
[size=1]Wow. What a contradictory sentence. You want to make OB better by going against the moderators and administrators. From what I can gather, MAMA makes zero sense if that's your goal... why not work in conjunction with the moderators and administrators to better OB? Clashing doesn't make progress, it's only detrimental to the environment. As previously stated, your acronym is extremely misleading.

I suppose I don't understand why the formation of this group was necessary in the first place. Why not bring this up as soon as you felt that the Administration was not executing their duties to the fullest? What's the point of creating this secret society where you all seethe together in late-night chatrooms, but never get your grievances addressed?[/size]
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[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]Wow. What a contradictory sentence. You want to make OB better by going against the moderators and administrators. From what I can gather, MAMA makes zero sense if that's your goal... why not work in conjunction with the moderators and administrators to better OB? Clashing doesn't make progress, it's only detrimental to the environment. As previously stated, your acronym is extremely misleading.

I suppose I don't understand why the formation of this group was necessary in the first place. Why not bring this up as soon as you felt that the Administration was not executing their duties to the fullest? What's the point of creating this secret society where you all seethe together in late-night chatrooms, but never get your grievances addressed?[/size][/QUOTE]
[color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]Ooo! That gives me an idea. Working side by side, right?

Instead of having [B]Moderator of _______[/B], you could also have the very few members with the title "[b]MAMA Member[/b]." Of course, you'd have to change your acronym. But I think that would be neat. It would give the oldies the recognition they deserve, and it would also give them a chance to better OB.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=White][color=#555555][FONT=Tahoma]Ooo! That gives me an idea. Working side by side, right?

Instead of having [B]Moderator of _______[/B], you could also have the very few members with the title "[b]MAMA Member[/b]." Of course, you'd have to change your acronym. But I think that would be neat. It would give the oldies the recognition they deserve, and it would also give them a chance to better OB.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[size=1]Right, so we can have [i]another[/i] exclusive group. That'll solve the problem. :p

Really, what would be the point? It would essentially be reviving the "Otaku" member title of the olden days. It's also what the custom titles are for. And would these "MAMA Members" have the power of a moderator if it would "give them a chance to better OB"? If so, what's the difference between a MAMA Member and a moderator? It just opens up an entirely new can of worms. In addition, [B]you don't need to have 'special powers' to contribute to OB[/B]. Start a great RPG. Write a great story. Create a new concept that we might all use (Banner/Avatar Orphanage, Awarded Titles, etc). Furthermore, I thought the point of MAMA was not to have moderator powers, but to better OB. If you give a MAMA member moderator powers, they've just completely nulled their entire philosophy up until this point.

It was a good idea, and sorry if I was harsh in critiquing it. I'm just getting a bit weary of this entire members against moderators and administrators business. It was ridiculous to start with.[/size]
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