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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Navy"]Okay I have heard many rumors about FF7 being remade for the PS3, I'm wondering if anyone else has heard this or not because 7 was the all time best in my opinion and I would absolutely love it if they really did remake it for the PS3. My question is this, has anyone else heard this rumor as well and what are your thoughts on it. Me personally I think it would rock and be the best thing they have ever done. But I'm a FF7 fan girl so yeah. lol. :catgirl:[/COLOR][/FONT]

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I really hope FF7 is not remade. FF7 is one of the worst titles in the FF line, IMHO. Gameplay wise, it is an excellent game, but when you come to the heart of any self respecting RPG - the storyline - it fails. I could give quite a description on why I don't like the FF7 storyline, if you guys would want to hear it.

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[color=#4B0082]The rumor about FFVII being remade on the PS3 has been around for years but there's never been any real evidence to support it. It spawned from a tech demo that Square Enix showed off at E3 that showed the opening scene of FFVII in near-Advent Children quality, which was supposedly able to be rendered in real time on the PS3.[/color]

[center][youtube=Final Fantasy VII PS3 Tech Demo]OnLsYJfkhNc[/youtube][/center]

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One thing I am curious about, is why so many people love FF7. I just can't seem to understand why so many people think it is such a great story.

Really, how does Planescape Torment, one of the deepest RPGs to ever be produced, get pushed to the shelves while FF7 becomes a videogame legend?

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[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Lol Matt. I can't answer your question since I like FF7 for entirely different reasons. One being I like to just look at the attacks (limit breaks, most notably). (This is true for most FF games although I've only played 3.) I couldn't tell you a single thing about story lol. If anything, and I'm probably alone here, but I like FF8 over the other Final Fantasies. (Again, not for story purposes.) Even though I've only played FF7, 8, and before getting rid of it, little bits of 10.

As for hoping for a FF7 remake. I wouldn't mind seeing one, although I'm in no rush to see one anytime soon. I'm more interested in FFXIII Versus. Only reason I'd like to see a remake is because I'm a graphic whore. It took quite some time for me to accept the graphics in FF7, mainly when you're walking in towns or on the world map. I can't stand that blocky look. But then again, when I first played FF7, I was just coming off of playing FF8, so go figure.

I pretty much just ignore all rumors though, unless they're proven true. People tend to get really stupid over them.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

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[color=#4B0082]FFVII was one of the major titles responsible for popularizing RPGs in the US. For a lot of people who started playing video games during the N64/PS1 generation, and even some who started earlier such as myself, it was their first RPG. So I think a lot of people look back on it nolstalgically and don't quite compare it objectively with other games.

Personally, even though FFVII was my first RPG, I find FFIV's battle system to be far superior and its characters much more interesting than FFVII's. (Not to mention Chrono Trigger and other games outside the FF series.) I still like FFVII well enough but I also have a hard time seeing why so many people think it's the best game ever.[/color]

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Hey, FF8 was actually [I]good[/I]. I always divided stories into two types - plot driven stories, where the events of the world carried the weight of the tale (LOTR), and character driven stories. FF8 is definitely a character driven tale.

I don't truly feel that Squall is emo. After all, when he was a child, his only source of comfort suddenly vanished. If I recall, she didn't say goodbye to Squall. This obviously caused him to not seek any more relationships when he started to attend Balamb. People think Squall was a coward because of this.

And they are absolutely right! Squall was a coward - he didn't seek any relationship only for his self benefit, or so he thought. He kept himself...to himself. He didn't care about others. He only sought to protect himself.

Since Squall did not have any "distractions" to deviate him from his studies, he obviously excelled. After all, if he wasn't distracted, how could he fail? What else did he have to spend his time on?

Naturally, this would cause some attention. This is probably where Seifer came in.

By not seeking to create relationships, Squall did exactly that - even if it is rivalry, it is still a relationship, a connection to an other person. Kinda ironic. :P

Moving on, when he was paired with Zell and Selphie, how could he not form a relationship. Selphie is just the most friendly person you would ever meet, and Zell is just full of energy. Even if he had never met Rinoa, Squall would have to form a connection with these two at one point or another.

And once he met Rinoa, well, his plan to not have any connections with anyone was doomed. Fate had a way of things, I suppose.

But what is even more interesting is that he is willing to be the leader, despite the fact he does not want to be the leader, and does not want to have a relationship with anyone else but himself. After all, a good leader knows and understands his soldiers.

FF8 deserves more credit than people give it for. It's leagues better than FF7, which remains only cliched ridden. Don't even get me started on Sephiropth.

[quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082]FFVII was one of the major titles responsible for popularizing RPGs in the US. For a lot of people who started playing video games during the N64/PS1 generation, and even some who started earlier such as myself, it was their first RPG. So I think a lot of people look back on it nolstalgically and don't quite compare it objectively with other games.

Personally, even though FFVII was my first RPG, I find FFIV's battle system to be far superior and its characters much more interesting than FFVII's. (Not to mention Chrono Trigger and other games outside the FF series.) I still like FFVII well enough but I also have a hard time seeing why so many people think it's the best game ever.[/color][/QUOTE]

I think that is inaccurate. RPG stands for [B]R[/B]ole [B]P[/B]laying [B]G[/B]ame. The Final Fantasy series has the last acronym correct, but I have to ask, where is the Role Playing in Final Fantasy? You are very strictly told what to do in terms of character development and narrative choices. You are not playing a role - you are not an actor. You are more like a puppet.

Thus, FF is not a RPG, just because it does not follow the definitions of 2/3 of the genre. We really need to differentiate games like FF from RPGs - Linear Narratives are accurate, but they feel too robotic.

Moving on, no, FF7 was not an introduction to RPGs. It was an introduction to a 'somewhat' interactive story telling format. I could give you a list of true RPGs - RPGs that have you deciding on a role, characterizing your character as you see fit, exploring a massive world. These games fit the description.

Oh, and all of them have better developed characters, much more intriguing worlds, and more intricate plots than FF7 can even dream of. :)

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[COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][quote name='Matt']One thing I am curious about, is why so many people love FF7. I just can't seem to understand why so many people think it is such a great story.[/QUOTE]One thing I'm curious about is to wonder why you care if people like the rpg? Or why it would matter if they did do a re-make? If someone enjoys a game, whether or not you think the story is lacking is irrelevant. It's the person playing it who matters. If they enjoy it, good for them. For the record, I don't think it's the greatest game ever, but I did enjoy playing it, flaws and all. And I for one would find a re-make interesting and would probably play it, just for old times sake.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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[size=1]I'm one of those people that considers it as one of the best games ever and I haven't even finished it. The thing with Final Fantasy VII however, is that it is just [i]that cool[/i]. Playing it feels cool. Partly because it was indeed one of the first RPGs I played, and I didn't even own it when I played it. Plus, it was like this 3D system thing that I had never played before on such a cool level. And Cloud was so cool when I was 10, where as Squall only was cool like twice in the whole game.

The best Final Fantasy is in my opinion number VI, though. The story was cool and the battles were cooler than Final Fantasy IV, which also was one of the cooler Final Fantasy games, but it was bloody annoying with the many encounters that kicked my butt hole if I didn't heal a lot, which is something I hate doing, but it being incredibly necessary, I had no choice. So, Final Fantasy VI > all other Final Fantasies.

Chrono Trigger is one of the better RPGs of all time, though. Secret of Mana also belongs in that list. Oh, and some Lufia and Breath of Fire could be added... Hm.

Anyway, they're probably all not RPG enough for Matt, but they are, sorry to tell you, labeled RPGs, so yeah. And with Planescape Torment being a game that couldn't keep me interested for very long - a big reason would be the odd graphics, I can very much imagine why Final Fantasy VII is a bigger hype.

... The game stopped working on my computer however. My windows edition keeps getting stuck in the Gondola with Aeris (yes I spell her name with an 's')/Tifa. :( I've downloaded this crack that can help you get passed the point, but it's all Japanese and all, so it isn't easy to use.
[/size][quote name='SunfallE'][COLOR="RoyalBlue"][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]One thing I'm curious about is to wonder why you care if people like the rpg? Or why it would matter if they did do a re-make? If someone enjoys a game, whether or not you think the story is lacking is irrelevant. It's the person playing it who matters. If they enjoy it, good for them. For the record, I don't think it's the greatest game ever, but I did enjoy playing it, flaws and all. And I for one would find a re-make interesting and would probably play it, just for old times sake.[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE][size=1]People do that. I tend to fuss about things that aren't directly my business either. It's bits of human interest, combined with common curiosity, combined with lack of understanding and probably more. Or it's something else. All in all, don't react to it too much as if he should not be bothered with it so much, because sometimes it's nice to bother yourself with things that actually aren't so important.

Besides, I think the guy has an incredible issue with Final Fantasy VII and it's hype.

[b]edit:[/b] Missed the VII. :P[/size]

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I don't hate Final Fantasy, Boo. I just hate FF7. It is just such a horribly crafted storyline. If you want to get in a debate with me on the issue, I will be more than happy too.

Just get ready for a wall of text. ;)

And it's a shame you couldn't stay interested in PS:T. It really is one of the better storylines you will ever encounter, and I'm not limiting that to just videogames. If it was a book, it surely would of have won some type of award. It just deals with so many issues, all of its characters are intriguing, it takes advantage of and warps so many cliches...it is just a marvel of storytelling.

The Transcended One is still one of the best villains you will ever find. :)

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[quote name='Matt']Hey, FF8 was actually [I]good[/I]. I always divided stories into two types - plot driven stories, where the events of the world carried the weight of the tale (LOTR), and character driven stories. FF8 is definitely a character driven tale. [/quote]

[color=deeppink]There's also a third type: setting-driven stories. Of course, those are rare as hell outside of documentaries.[/color]

[quote]I don't truly feel that Squall is emo. After all, when he was a child, his only source of comfort suddenly vanished. If I recall, she didn't say goodbye to Squall. This obviously caused him to not seek any more relationships when he started to attend Balamb.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]See, that doesn't mean he's not emo, that's just an explanation for [I]why[/I] he's emo. He still broods like hell.

As for FF8 being a character driven story... yes, it is, just like nearly every Final Fantasy game. At the same time, it is [I]also[/I] a plot-driven story. Unfortunately, both the characters and the plot were... mediocre, at best.

Squall is the only main character with any real depth. Selphie, Zell, and Irvine were one-diimensional, and Rinoa and Quistis were almost no-dimensional. I could sum up the whole of each character with one word. A story of that length and complexity cannot rest on one character.

And Squall? He was just a amped up version of Cloud. Partially amnesiac mercenary who's cold, distant, indifferent, emo, and softened by some woman he met randomly.

The plot itself is jumbled and nonsensical. A good majority of the scenes had no real relevance to the rest of the story. The whole amnesia plot point was never really developed, nor did it add anything to the story itself. Hell, after it was discovered, it wasn't even mentioned again. I could write pages listing all the scenes that were totally irrelevant.


Most importantly of all, it just wasn't interesting. [/color]




[quote]I think that is inaccurate. RPG stands for [B]R[/B]ole [B]P[/B]laying [B]G[/B]ame. The Final Fantasy series has the last acronym correct, but I have to ask, where is the Role Playing in Final Fantasy? You are very strictly told what to do in terms of character development and narrative choices. You are not playing a role - you are not an actor. You are more like a puppet.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]You're using an outdated definition. Yes, RPG stands for Role Playing Game... but at this point, it's just a name. The definition has become more inclusive, and games like Final Fantasy can be accurately called RPGs because the term has been expanded to include them.

By the original defintion, no, it would not be an RPG, but I'd say that that definition hasn't existed in twenty years.[/color]

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[quote name='Matt']I think that is inaccurate. RPG stands for [B]R[/B]ole [B]P[/B]laying [B]G[/B]ame. The Final Fantasy series has the last acronym correct, but I have to ask, where is the Role Playing in Final Fantasy? You are very strictly told what to do in terms of character development and narrative choices. You are not playing a role - you are not an actor. You are more like a puppet.

Thus, FF is not a RPG, just because it does not follow the definitions of 2/3 of the genre. We really need to differentiate games like FF from RPGs - Linear Narratives are accurate, but they feel too robotic.

Moving on, no, FF7 was not an introduction to RPGs. It was an introduction to a 'somewhat' interactive story telling format. I could give you a list of true RPGs - RPGs that have you deciding on a role, characterizing your character as you see fit, exploring a massive world. These games fit the description.

Oh, and all of them have better developed characters, much more intriguing worlds, and more intricate plots than FF7 can even dream of. :)[/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]Simply controlling a character's actions in a video game is, by definition, role playing since you are playing the role of that character. Video game RPGs are more restrictive than table top RPGs due to the fact that they're computer programs and thus things like dialogue and the plot cannot be made up on the fly but they're still a form of role playing.

Really, that applies to almost every video game where you assume control of a character or group of characters. It's just that the use of simulated dice rolls to determine the outcomes of actions, similar to most table top RPG rule sets, is used as another qualifier to separate RPGs from the other video game genres.

But, back to Final Fantasy in particular: I've long since given up playing the games for their story or characters. Most of them are just not that great and I'd rather go read a book if I want a deep or interesting story. I play games for the gameplay so the main thing I look at in RPGs is the battle system.

FFVII's battle system is pretty shallow. For one, freaking everyone is both a good fighter and a good magic user (well, besides Aeris, but she's a moot point anyway). I used completely different characters the second time I played the game (or at least as much as I was allowed) and I could not tell any difference other than the attack animations. You can go through the whole game and never have to pay any attention to your characters' stats other than HP and MP.

The penalties for loading up a character with materia are not nearly harsh enough, which lets you breeze through the entire game if you're at all smart with your materia setups. As long as you put put a Restore/All combo on all three characters you're practically invincible for most of the game because, no matter when you get hit, you can always immediately heal with your next action and continue healing with every action after that until you're back in shape. And then if you should happen to learn the enemy skill Big Guard you can just forget about ever dying again because you'll have a spell that casts Haste, Barrier, and MBarrier on the entire party for a stupidly low MP cost.

Sure, you can go wild and twink out your materia setups to achieve insanely powerful combos. I did plenty of that. But there's hardly any point. Restore/All + Big Guard + physical attacks will get you through 90% of the game.[/color]

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Here's another known Final Fanatic! Having played all the main-series games except the third one (which will soon be corrected now that I have a DS), plus several spin-offs and sequels, I can honestly say that the FF VII universe has the most expansive world, history and cast of characters - much thanks to the sequels recently released.

I love the personal characters of the game. In comparison, FF VIII's characters are nice to look at, but that's about it. As for FF IV (another game brought up here), all of it's cast were one-dimensional stereotypes (errand knight, fragile healer, best-friend-turned-traitor, spoony bard etc.).

I also love the world. The same goes for FF XII, but I don't think they utilized it as well in that game (since most of the background story was hidden in the Bestiary). The towns and locations were amazingly vibrant and varied in FF VII, and I still can't get over the greatness of Midgar and Gold Saucer.

Now, the gameplay... I understand that some people are bothered by the possibilities of the customization, or by the fact that there's a best combination of materia with which you can beat whatever you encounter (then again, what game [I]doesn't[/I] have something like that?). But I prefer this choice to the restriction of the playable characters into certain jobs. Honestly, the gameplay of FF VI was as simple as it could get: Cecil always attacks, Rosa casts Curaja, Kain jumps, Rydia casts Bahamut and Edge throws shurikens. No Limit Breaks, no variation, no support skills. Where's the superiority in that, I ask? (They added a lot of that stuff to the DS-version, though.)

So yeah, I am one of those people who wish to see a remake of FF VII released someday, but for now I'd rather see more of FF XIII. I would still take new installments over remakes any day.

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[color=crimson]Careful guys. If he's played Torment he can argue you out of existence.

FF7 was a positive experience for me as a kid and, having replayed it recently, now. I have played the full list of Final Fantasy games released in America, barring 10-2, and have to say that it is among the cream of the crop of the franchise.

However, I don't feel much towards the idea of a remake. It was a complete experience, for me, on the PlayStation 1. Final Fantasy 7 would not be the same with the Cloud I watched in Advent Children and Crisis Core, or any of the other characters as they appear in the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7. That's not part of the nostalgia for me - certainly it is pretty neat to watch, but I am not sure I'd enjoy seeing the Compilation-Cid cussing at a similar looking Shera or watching Barret stare down Dyne in the same way.

A remake would probably be alright, but my mind already reflects well on FF7. Nothing can really boost it up - I had a great time experiencing Final Fantasy 7 with its characters, setting, and story, but I do not feel any positive emotions watching Square Enix build on to it. The rest of the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7 does not do anything for me and most of it seems mediocre or tacky at best.
[/color]

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[quote name='DeathKnight'][color=crimson]Careful guys. If he's played Torment he can argue you out of existence.[/color][/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]I actually have too, though not a lot. My brother owns it.[/color]

[quote name='Sandy']Now, the gameplay... I understand that some people are bothered by the possibilities of the customization, or by the fact that there's a best combination of materia with which you can beat whatever you encounter (then again, what game [I]doesn't[/I] have something like that?). But I prefer this choice to the restriction of the playable characters into certain jobs. Honestly, the gameplay of FF VI was as simple as it could get: Cecil always attacks, Rosa casts Curaja, Kain jumps, Rydia casts Bahamut and Edge throws shurikens. No Limit Breaks, no variation, no support skills. Where's the superiority in that, I ask? (They added a lot of that stuff to the DS-version, though.)[/QUOTE][color=#4B0082]The thing is, there's customization with materia but every character is otherwise the same. You can build a character who's a good fighter, a powerful user of both black and white magic, [i]and[/i] a summoner, no matter who you choose. (This wouldn't be so bad if speccing heavily into one area at least lowered their abilities in others enough to matter.) The only real differences come in limit breaks, which make up a tiny fraction of their actions.

The result is that it actually promotes less variety than a class-based system and every character ends up being the same in battle. It doesn't matter when you get hit, anyone can heal next. It doesn't matter if an enemy is only weak against magic, everyone can use it. There's no reason for the back row to even exist, other than to make long range characters even more overpowered. Because of all this, very little of the game requires any planning, strategy, or MP conservation.

There's a reason you only get three characters in your party in FFVII and it's because everyone can do everything all at once. If they had given you four they might as well put in an, "I win," button to automatically kill every enemy in any fight instantly.

In FFIV every character has one thing they do well but you get five of them in the party that you have to manage. You get once chance to heal per round, one chance to cast black magic or summon, and then some smaller variations among your physical attackers. But even those smaller variations are important; putting Cecil's cover, Kain's jump, and Edge's ninjitsu to good use makes a world of difference. (And no, contrary to popular belief, it is [i]not[/i] always best to have Kain jump every round, especially not in random battles. One simple reason is that if Kain is in the air when the battle ends, you've wasted a turn and probably gotten hit once more than necessary.) This requires you to actually think about what you're doing because every character can't just destroy random baddies with physical attacks while using three large MP pools to power out cure spells, then summon and magic their way to victory against bosses.

FFIV also likes to throw in bosses built to destroy people who always use the standard actions that you mentioned. Asura, for example, requires you to cast Reflect on her and then be very careful with your physical attacks because she counter-attacks after every single one. In that fight it's more important for Rosa to maintain Blink on people than it is for her to heal. Or Dark Bahamut, who casts Reflect on himself and then counters with Mega Flare whenever you hit him with a summon.[/color]

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[color=deeppink]My favorite system has always been the Job System from V and Tactics, though Tactics was superior. It was the perfect combination of defined roles and customization.

FFIV did a lot of things right with their battles, but near the end they were ridiculous. The optional bosses, and even Zeromus, required a ridiculous amount of leveling before it was really feasible to defeat them.[/color]

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[color=#4B0082]The job system can work really well. I loved it in Tactics Advance, though I never did play very much of the first Tactics and I still need to finish FFIII on the DS some time. But I've heard that in the original versions of FFIII and FFV you only end up using two jobs (one fighter type and one magic user, I forget their names) late in the game because they're just blatantly better than the rest. So even the job system has to be balanced correctly or things get stale.

And it sounds like someone needs to watch my [url=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=E3C54EAFFAEBA7FA][u]FFIV Advance boss videos[/u][/url]. :p

Here's Zeromus beaten on active ATB at the fastest speed with my party's levels ranging from 55 to 58. I never leveled up at all during the game.[/color]

[center][youtube=Final Fantasy IV Advance - Zeromus]GiNOiB7eHoE[/youtube][/center]

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[quote name='Desbreko'][color=#4B0082]But I've heard that in the original versions of FFIII and FFV you only end up using two jobs (one fighter type and one magic user, I forget their names) late in the game because they're just blatantly better than the rest. [/color][/quote]

[color=deeppink]Which is part of the reason I said FFT was superior. ; )

though I've never played III. I also thought that the Tactics Advance system was kind of... watered down with the inclusion of weapon-based learning.[/color]

[quote]Here's Zeromus beaten on active ATB at the fastest speed with my party's levels ranging from 55 to 58. I never leveled up at all during the game.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]Those were roughly the levels I beat Zeromus at; It was more 57-60, but thereabouts.

But I when I [i]first[/i] fought Zeromus, my highest level character was, like, 45. I had to train like crazy just so the bastard couldn't one-hit me, even with buffs on.[/color]

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[color=#4B0082]I had another reply all written up when I remembered that this is an FFVII thread. I guess we should probably try to stay a little more on topic. :animeswea

To come back to something about my first post comparing FFIV and FFVII that I think I was a little unclear about, when I said I found FFIV's characters more interesting than FFVII's I meant it in the context of the battle system. I already explained why a couple posts ago so I won't go back over that. FFVII's characters are obviously better developed in personality than FFIV's, though, so I'll agree with you there Sandy.[/color]

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It seems like this has become a general "Final Fantasy Gameplay Discussion" thread.

Perhaps a thread title change is in order?

Maybe I should start a Planescape: Torment thread as well...

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[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]No sir. The thread, in general is still Final Fantasy VII. I don't think comparing gameplay (and other uhh.. stuff) to other games of the genre is not that big of a deal, as long as it don't get too carried away.

[strike]However, I could always move it to the "Final Fantasy series" thread. ;)[/strike][/SIZE][/COLOR]

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[quote name='Matt']I have to disagree on that. I think each Final Fantasy deserves its own thread - they are that different apart. It's not like the forums are overcrowded with new threads.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Haha... [strike]You don't have a "say" in the matter :p[/strike] Thanks for your input.

[quote name='Desbreko']The penalties for loading up a character with materia are not nearly harsh enough, which lets you breeze through the entire game if you're at all smart with your materia setups. As long as you put put a Restore/All combo on all three characters you're practically invincible for most of the game because, no matter when you get hit, you can always immediately heal with your next action and continue healing with every action after that until you're back in shape. And then if you should happen to learn the enemy skill Big Guard you can just forget about ever dying again because you'll have a spell that casts Haste, Barrier, and MBarrier on the entire party for a stupidly low MP cost.[/quote]

Oh my, I've never even thought about giving 3 characters Restore. I normally just give 1 Restore to 1 character and let that one be my healer while the other 2 are my attackers. But even with that, I almost never followed that because even my healer (Tifa, Yuffie, and sometimes Red X) was attacking. I'm pretty basic when it comes to customizing... but then again, you learn something new everyday. I gotta try Restore/All on everyone.

Where do I learn Big Guard from? I've played this twice so far (and working on a third), and still haven't ran into any monster(s) that does Big Guard.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

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[quote name='Phenom'][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="1"]Where do I learn Big Guard from? I've played this twice so far (and working on a third), and still haven't ran into any monster(s) that does Big Guard.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

There's a whole slewd of FAQs and walkthroughs at GameFAQs.com for situations like that, but because I think I remember the answer, I'll tell it to you: [strike]monsters called [B]Adamantaimai[/B] (big turtles) that appear on the beaches at least in Wutai cast it on you when confused.[/strike] Confusion is the way to go to get most healing and defensive enemy skills throughout the series. ;D

For some odd reason, I remember [B]Behemoths[/B] having that skill as well, but that could've been in a different game. [strike]Adamantaimai are the best bet, though.[/strike]

[B]Edit:[/B] I just checked, and it seems my memory has failed me. Adamantaimai give you Death Force enemy skill when manipulated. The correct answer for Big Guard are the [B]Beach Plugs[/B] on the beaches near Gongaga. They must be manipulated as well.

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[color=#4B0082]I think the earliest you can find Beach Plugs and learn Big Guard is on the beaches near Costa Del Sol. Which, funnily enough, is earlier than you can get Time or Barrier materia to cast the spells separately.

By the way, you can also steal Adaman Bangles from the Adamantaimai turtles which, if I remember correctly, are decent pieces of armor at that point in the game.[/color]

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