Plant_Angel

Ah geez! I always control c replies, juuuuust in case. Hmmm, Id agree all Trigun characters do seem to represent a different human psyches (not sure if thats the word or not). Legato is the perfect example of the the idea that it is the human condition to suffer, then you die. Its like he wants to miss out the first part and skip right to death. I wonder about Knives as his substitute God. I also wonder how much of Knives motives he understands. He CANNOT read his mind, he was surprised/hurt/shocked that he wasnt told by Knives that Wolfwood had the role he does (and Knives didnt care that he didnt know, in fact he yawned). Legato always assissts Knives and despite how he treats him he does not falter in his loyalty, but what does Legato think of Knives desire to destroy? Fair enough for him to say "Absolute devotion to Him ought to be all you need" but devotion when you are dead...you've got to wonder what it is Knives has told him. He lives by every word of Knives even though Vash is 'His' species, his twin brother!! Does Legato see Vash as the traitor, like what Vicious says to Spike, "When Angels are forced from Heaven, they become demons" This interests me, how many Noble Truths are there? Could you list them for me? Only if its not too much trouble of course!

I do agree with you on that MillieFan, murder IS the most evil act a person can do and is not right under even the most extreme circumstances. But can I ask you? In a situation you stumble across a group of men, about 15, about to be executed for treason. The guys in charge of court marshalling dont want you think any less of them so make up a comprimise. If you can shoot any one of the innocent villagers, then all 15 will go free. Or if you shoot yourself, they will go free. Then whats the right thing to do? I'd say a sitution like that is evil, very evil, but also possible. Whether or not a motive for sin can truly be stemmed in good is questionable. Unfortunately the Bible is not the truth for everyone (whether or not that is a good or bad thing is not for me to judge) so murder is a depressingly common occurance. Thanks for replying -^____^- I like a good banter

Aww, C'mon MillieFan! A debate is about argueing your side, your opinions are very welcome here, thats why this thread was started! Its all speculation anyway, we may all be completely missing the point, please share your view! Please share with us MillieFan, please *gives the puppy dog eyes*

I guess as far as considering the world around us we must assume that our senses are reliable for perception, which we can never really be sure of (could go deeper into this but others have done it better) how can we beleive Paris is really thereanyway without going there? It was just an example of a basic truth, although perhaps subject to change in the future, that cannot be questioned at this point. Why would Legatos want the Rodericks to feel pain as he does? Is this a grudge Legato has against humanity for not having to suffer the way HE does? I cant see how knowledge of this pain would benefit them seeing as it is their fate to be destroyed anyway. Maybe he abhors humanities ignorance and is using Knives to get at humanity as Wolfwood was using Vash to get at Knives. We've already seen his ability to manipulate Vash, taking the place as an underling to help some one with so much power probably would make this task a whole lot simpler. (Great news, but Im still gonna get all the manga in Japanese, could be a learning oppurtunity for me) Oh and I wanted to thank you Spinnelein cuz Im sure it was you who informed me, maybe not personnally, of the site for the translations ^_^ I recognised yur sig.

Hmmm, this brings back subjective and objective thoughts of philosophy. Objective is what it is DEFINATELY right as conforms with our society, a basiic truth like Paris is the capital of France as an example. If someone said Paris was not the capital of France then they would definately be wrong. Subjective however, is a like "Strawberries taste nice" which may differ to someone elses opinion, but in itself is not wrong. Saying "Killing is wrong" however doesnt fall into either category, to be objective, a truth, it must be proven that it is wrong, that it is "evil" where to some one like Legato it is more merciful than cruel. Where as if it is subjective, a matter of opinion, then that makes it just as right to differ in that killing is alright because its what the other beleives in. Basically what Im trying to say is that Evil is a judgement in whats most disagreeable with a society. Lets say executing a guy who has been accused of heinous crimes, say murder and theft. This will make both the victims and those who read about it happy right? But is it right therefore to accuse somebody and execute them whether or not they did it to make everyone else happy? They wont know they didnt do it, but thats not the point. Is it evil then to kill innocents, those with nothing to do with it? Is killing evil in itself when faced with the grisly execution Knives has planned? Legato has every faith he will succeed. I would say evil is probably preventing others from making their own choices, from living their beleifs, but then that contradicts those who beleive killing is right, that being their beleif. It is most difficult. Altruism is most defintely not evil, but how many people are genuinely altruistic? It may be a way of honouring some one to clear your own conscience of the guilt of their fate.......see Vash and Rem. Then it is still for your own benefit, but Vash is not evil is he?? He has a fair background of manslaughter though...

Wolfwood has personnal grudges against Knives. When he shouts in the Quick draw episode "I wont let anymore children suffer" Two different meanings can be taken from this. The first being that he doesnt want any more orphans, victims of slaughtered parents forced to live a life of solitude (loneliness)without secure backgrounds, like he had to. Wolfwood wasnt the only kid to be taken as an orphan and trained as an assassin (see manga). The other point is that Knives actually slaughtered the December orphans for motives which are unclear (well, he either has, or it is a very real fear of Wolfwoods that he will, its hard to tell in the manga, lacking in Japanese vocabulary and all that). Using Vash was probably the best way of getting at Knives whilst swearing an insincere allegiance to him, to both of them. Though he does eventually become friends with Vash this was probably unintended. Its also very difficult to assume Legatos background, since we know so little about him its more difficult to assess a mind which is not the easiest to understand to begin with! Wolfwood wants to save by killing, Legato wants to irradicate by killing. Whether this is because of similar childhood scarring is not something we can be entirely sure of, but I doubt that the death of those he loved would be what caused Legato to think it right to kill everybody. Its interesting as to whether he beleives he is saving people from the suffering of living in empathy for his fellow beings, or whether he has been completely bought into Knives theory of Plant superiority.

Hey Spinnelein, can I ask your opinion on something? Its not really psychological and changing the subject a bit, its not about Legato. Seeing as youve read the manga do you have the manga too? Its about Knives and Vash's Angel Arms, do you think they have seperate powers? Vash uses the energy gun and various feathery type things, but Knives uses blades high frequency as to travel distances and slice so cleanly through everything. Just a thought... Legato does evil deeds so he can be rated as evil, and whether his intentions are for the best is debateable. If the best means destroying suffering as a way to solve it then that is like running from your problems, burning them away rather coming up with a solution or compromise, but thats getting back to destroying spiders to save butterflies.

Spinnelein......I think you are my hero *sniff* WOW you certainly know your stuff! Ive been looking at philosophy, but now Im thinking I might look at psychology too. Now I know a lot more for pretending Im smarter than I am, heh heh, I do try really. People who suggest that anime Legato is insane probably havent seen his expressions in Trigun Maximum, now THAT provokes deeper thought into his mental stability.

Yeah thats true. If Legato does feel all the disgusting evil thoughts then he would harbor hatred towards mankind just as Knives does, especially seeing as on that planet there wont be many people thinking about love and peace in the state everything is in (even if they were the intrusion of their thoughts is unlikely to be welcomed). Death to all and eventually himself is most likely his only release from the torture of having to live with that. "To stay alive is to truly suffer" He suffers when everyone else is alive, and because he is alive.

Groovy, something new for myself to consider ^_^ Thanks for the advice of those we know as tranvestites, I never mean any disrespect. MillieFan plays Mod *(~_~)

Didn't they also make a live-action Battle Royale? I havent seen it (yet) but I was told about it, I didnt realise there was manga as well.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Failed_Attempts [/i] [B]May I ask where you got all your American Knowledge from? What's to say that americans don't have an appreciation of the natural world? I live in America, and I see otherwise. [/B][/QUOTE] I didnt mean to be offensive, what I mean is the majority of animes are about appreciating nature, well a lot anyways, more so than the majority of American films. I realise I cannot judge American societies any more than any of us here can judge Japanese societies or values. Its hard enough to categorise your own country without stereotyping. Thats what we must avoid doing when it comes to anime or any form of entertainment. Im talking about the vast majority that we are slave to no matter where we are, or how many others do not follow whats universally popular. I can only comment on what I observe for myself. Take a look at industries in the real world perhaps, and the extent of conservational efforts, and even look back at history. Do try not to be biased by blind partriotism, but do not listen to me either, this thread is about thinking for yourself. The truth only has meaning for those who seek it. And opinions are the first step.

Alright, I personally find anime has been a major influence for me. Im sitting here in Britain right now typing at my keyboard, America way over that way and there is a very marked difference in the entertainment produced by both countries. Where America has its cool expensive live-action Hollywood blockbusters, Japan has its anime, its manga and its appreciation of the natural world. This is what I understand and this is from fiction. Anime, introduced to me by a family freind a few years back, fueled an interest in Japan I didnt know I already had that stemmed from computer games, my N64 gave me countless character inspirations. I dont think its fair to compare "cartoons" to anime, though some like Dextors Laboratory are very clever sometimes, because they have very different approaches to very different issues. I must say anime has made me a philosopher. Cartoons in Western culture and cartoons in eastern culture have different levels of importance and appreciation. I'd say it differs for each person as to how open minded they may have become due to an interest in anime, also including other interests they may have. For me, anime has given me many issues to consider, but I think I was already the pondering type to begin with. Its not neccessarily superior, its just different, and my preference to entertainment as well as influence. Anime is usually based on scientific theories or the works of Ancient Greek philosophers, but so was the Matrix and other films, it just depends on your point of view.

Oh, I get it, sorry. Please excuse my ignorance. That thought would never have crossed my mind, I mean it would be cold!! I AM KIDDING! Geez, Im not a pervert, I really hope you dont mean me, I have a (complete lack of) reputation to uphold.

An "adult store"? Eh??

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Metatron [/i] [B]How exactly do u intend to make the mechanical arm of Vash, and that black leather like thingy around his legs :p? And as for Wolfwood... hmm... *imagines a girl walking around with a giant cross on Halloween*... I dunno... wat would U think? People would think ur some kinda crazed exorcist -_- [/B][/QUOTE] I dont intend to carry any weopons, Vash's gun is far too customised to copy without making one and Im not sure card board would have the same effect......The mechanical arm will just be covered how he usually has it with a glove and leather with those straps. Ive got some leather trousers I can use though, course Im gonna need to make shin-guards, I can use my soaps for his boots but theyre kinda blue... I guess dressing up is either gonna look OK or very very very badly failed. I think I might fall into that latter category, but it wont matter too much, no one will know anyway! I got enough time to prepare for all the horrible embarressment, its only May. Are you saying Wolfwood DOESNT look like a crazed exorcist.....? That Angel costume sounds genius! I hope he kept it! I can see how explaining that might be difficult to people (ok, just about everybody) who dont know what it is that its an Angel. Anime seem to have some very unusual ideas as too what Angels are like!! Hmmm, it destroys, it kills, its scary......must be an Angel then! I mean, DUH! Hey, uh, thanks for the advice MillieFan! I'll remember that for when (if they ever) decide British fans are important enough for conventions....*~_~ But unfortunately, Halloween is all I got for now.

Heh, its to late for me to keep it secret that Im a fan! I would like to cosplay as Vash, I am blonde and making a coat would be no trouble if I could get the material at a decent price ^_^! But seeing as my hair is long, Im short and Im female means Im at a bit of a disadvantage....Theres always Halloween!! That and I know someone who is gonna be Wolfwood........(and shes a girl! D'oh!)

How obvious is your costume? You should also think about hair too, Heero has an easily recognisable hair style, but the difficulties in re-creating that will undoubtably prove troublesome. Do you look very much like Heero? I'd say go with the jacket if you feel its neccessary, dont worry about it. ^_^ MillieFan's ID card is a brilliant idea too! Can't say I know too much (or anything!!) from experience, we dont seem to get anime conventions in this country!

After being crippled by Knives for sending out the order to kill Vash, Legato needed a way to get around, so he used the character known only as Legato's Bearer. She was huge, with pointy teeth and carried Legato about in some kind of sarcophagus with only his head showing. He does seem to have her completely under his control, hate to think where he found her... Leagato's Bearer was in his service in Trigun Maximum 5 where she also meets her end leaving Legato to seek a new means of travel. He resorts to the sarcophagus with a mechanical claw.....the first indications of Legato perhaps losing his touch? (not his power though!) He just keeps getting more and more insane..... GHGs Wolfwood (Is he really a GHG?) Zazie the Beast (Through a second 'terminal' as he calls people, this time a young girl, older than the boy) Elendira the Crimsonnail Trip Of Death Double Fang (two guys from the Eye of Micheal, a guild of assasins, carrying crosses similar in design to Wolfwoods......In the anime they didn't appear and instead we were given the two specially created characters Caine the Longshot and Chapel the Evergreen) Legato Bluesummers (????????) Hmmm, Trigun Maximum 8. (there will be spoilers, but seeing as you asked.....) ***************SPOILERS****************** Knives has started his rampage across the planet in an airship, cities are evacuating, riots and mass hysteria is ensueing, alongside a lot of destruction and death. Vash, now fully aware of the powers he possesses, has been incarcerated after being knocked senseless by his brother previously, held in a cell in the ground on the airship for over six months (and looking the worse for it) under the watchful eye of Legato. Luckily he knows a good priest friend..... Millie and Meryl appear on the flying ship (though havent been in contact with Vash, not since Maximum 6), Marlon gives Vash a new gun from a 'girl', Wolfwood takes his leave, hopefully only for the time being. Wolfwood has his own chapter-long story. Something VERY big is about to happen......... Anything else you'd like to know? -^____^-

Gomenasai! *~_~ I get carried away! Im not sure about Legato. He was able to survive being bent every which way by Knives in Trigun 3 so who knows. Hmmm, I just thought, that was a display of psychic Plant power but he was touching him.....maybe having Vash's arm enhanced Legato's already established ability.. I read on from that point, but Legato isnt in it past there, dont know if he was dead but he sure wasnt about to go anywhere anytime soon. Wolfwood took up a whole chapter of story with his own spin-off comic Freed Bird......*grumble grumble* Not that I dont like Mr Priest! You're refering to Elendira the Crimson-nail, the 'lost' 13th Gung Ho Gun and transvestite. He/she (how do you refer to these guys?) carries a case that fires massive bolts at an immense speed. Im not sure where his/her loyalty truly lies, but he/she is under the orders of Knives and has a strong dislike of Legato. Also seems to have an interest in tarot cards. Little is known of, uh, this person, but it is beleived that Elendira may be the strongest of all the GHG.

This is Trigun Maximum 8 and everything is going to hell, with even Vash looking pathetic at the mercy of Knives and Legato. That planet is in a whole world o' trouble right now, I can tell you. What with Knives merging with Plants and seemingly no regard for his own degredation..... Don't think Knives has any intention of killing Vash whatso-ever. They are brothers after all.

"I Can't Live if Living is Without You" by Nilsson always reminds me of Vash and Meryl when Vash leaves having explained everything. Theres a Mariah Carey version, but its just not the same....... Hallelujah Chorus definately Evangelion and Canon by Johann Pachelbell too.

I think Legato might be dead in the manga now, Wolfwood just shot him an awful lot. He certainly didnt look very well anyway and there was lots of blood, but he did notice that a lot of shots had 'missed'.........so I dont know. The amount of power Knives has at the moment Im not sure how even Vash is going to stop him!

I have the series on video, the first full series I saw, nostalgia *sniff* Unfortunately it wasnt very popular in Japan, so they only ever made 12 episodes. Intrigued as to the rest of the story I started to collect the manga but after the 8th (I think) volume, the translations stopped saying, and I quote; "With this volume Bio Booster Armor Guyver goes on hiatus idefinately" ie. Its not popular enough, we're not making any money, so we're stopping this series. I had the misfortune to see the second of the Guyver live action films Dark Hero, and yes, it is VERY wise to avoid. Did you know know there was also a guyver anime film? Its gone out of print and I doubt it was ever dubbed but I foud some clips and it doesnt look all that bad.

I agree with shadowdramon. What would they possibly put in a sequel? All they could do is the same but with different characters, or a half hour "Ok guys, so this is what I meant by....." Nope, a sequel should most definately not be considered. Akira was a classic peice of art (whether you liked the film or not) and it should stand alone as just that.