TwistedChick

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Yeah, he's shown himself to be able to outfight an Espada using only his shikai and tactics Aizen would probably compliment. He'd damn well better make a reappearance in Hueco Mundo, as his flunky replacement Mayuri has already had his fight.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Urahara's always been one of my favorites, and as usual, my favs tend to get gyped when it comes to screentime. He reminds me of Kakashi. They both have that subdued cool that, when coupled with skill and strategy, simply screams badass. But neither get enough action. Urahara is long overdue for some butt-stomping, that's for sure. So far, he's pretty much stayed out of it, and though I don't see him making an appearance in Soul Society any time soon, he might just pop up in Hueco Mundo. Maybe Yoruichi could tag along?

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]God knows what's going on, I just hope next week's chapter clears it up a little.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Amen to that. Kishi does seem to like revealing things sloooowwwwly. Especially in this fight. He has a few more weeks to clarify, but that's all I'm giving him.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]No, no, no, Memphis, Mini-Byakuya is obviously Neji. I thought everyone knew that. ^_^[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Yep. Honor and rules over all else. The whole "you should feel privileged to be defeated by me". Even the slight change of attitude. Them be clones. [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]After what we've seen happen to Itachi after his personality change, Ulquiorra needs to stay exactly the way he is, frozenly badass.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] He will [I]always[/I] have the same demeanor. No crazy "I am evil and will destroy you all! hahahahahahahaha!!" from him. Just perhaps a larger scale repeat of his Yami smack-down. 'My subordinate/comrade is getting carried away. To prevent something disgraceful from taking place, I will end this myself.'

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"] Ulquiorra, please, kill Nnoitra and develop an even greater fanbase.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Yes! That would be [I]amazing[/I]. He'd have my full support. And I wouldn't put it beyond him. That actually sounds like something he'd love to do. He has that "I'm surrounded by idiots" appearance that could let him be pushed over the edge. I totally see him snapping and killing a comrade, remaining perfectly composed the whole time, of course. [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Orihime, I don't know, she's never really interested me as a character, so what happens to her as long as it's good for the story is fine with me.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] I'd like her to [I]become[/I] more interesting, and we all know that won't happen due to a personality change. Her abilities are her only hope of garnering our affection. I'm not really attached to any of the female characters, with the exception of Yoruichi and Ururu (for obvious reasons). Is it possible Kubo has a harder time writing them?

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]What seems most off-putting about this is that Itachi was the one to accept the challenge. He even had the chance to see Sasuke's powers without actually endangering himself, and was apparently satisfied with what he saw. I just can't see him picking a fight he doesn't think he can win, it's completely out of character for him, hell this entire fight is out of character for him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] What I think exactly. Itachi has always been very good at reading the situation. He observes his opponent, determines what is needed to defeat them, then engages the enemy. But when he's up against someone he [I]can't[/I] defeat, or even one he thinks could injure him, he's the first one to retreat. Better to live to fight another day than to get in over your head. Also, didn't Itachi figure out that Kakashi had developed mangekyou without ever seeing it? Kakashi dropped a hint, true, but I believe Itachi was able to sense it also. If he could sniff out Kakashi's sharingan mastery, he should've noticed Sasuke's. Even if he's getting desperate about obtaining new eyes, he wouldn't face Sasuke [I]alone[/I] if there was even the slightest hint that he would fail. Surely even he would be willing to gang up on someone if it meant securing an eternal sharingan for himself.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]I mean he constantly goes on about how strong he is, so either he fights Kenpachi at a hundred percent or he should shut the **** up as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I really don't like Nnoitra. ^_^;[/SIZE][/QUOTE] That's why everyone should fight like Chad. Go all out from the start. You either overwhelm the opponent and prove your badassness right away, or you spare yourself the embarrassment of dragging out a fight you could never win from the start. That's the reason of all the Espada, the only one I truly respect is Ulquiorra. He seems to get straight to the point in everything he does. No trash talk. No dancing around. Just observe the situation and act. [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]As far as the Inoue comment went, I don't know, her powers have always been an oddity, so it's entirely possible that Hueco Mundo has made her a little stronger as well. Her powers' strength are based in her will as well, and she always seemed quite attached to Yachiru, I imagine that helped too.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] I'm interested to see where her abilities go. They don't seem to really relate to one another, so she could be written in almost any way and it would be believable.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Even though I complained about it not two pages back, but I really hope this is just another of Itachi's genjutsu, as unlikely as that is though.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Something else simply [I]must[/I] be going on. The more I examine it, the more ridiculous the current situation is. I'm with you. Let it be genjutsu, or at least let it all be an act of some kind. Something, [I]anything[/I] other than what seems to be happening. There have been few times when I've doubted Kishimoto in the slightest. I want to have faith in him now. But, he'd better clear this up soon. I'll be in Japan this September. If things truly are as they seem, God help me if I don't hunt him down and demand a rewrite. Watch out little Japanese man.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]And here I held back my rant on how bad I thought the fight was because I thought you'd disagree with me and we'd end up in a big debate again, heh. ^_^[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Up until now, I [I]would[/I] have disagreed with you. For the longest time, I've been the person who's always defended Sasuke, the one who would try to ease others worries, assuring them that Sasuke [I]wasn't[/I] as overwhelmingly powerful as they thought. After all, we [I]all know[/I] that Orochimaru isn't so weak as to [I]actually die[/I] when battling his new apprentice. And we [I]all know[/I] that if Sasuke were strong enough to do that, he wouldn't have failed to kill Naruto or even Yamato in their previous encounter. And for God's sake we [I]all know[/I] that facing off against Itachi would be one of the hardest things he would ever do. After all, Itachi's the baddest thing since Madara, right? Defeating him would be near impossible for someone who'd only awakened the sharingan three years ago, right? No. Apparently not. [I][B]Apparently[/B][/I] even something like overcoming the frickin' mangekyou sharingan doesn't so much as put him out of breath. I knew Kishimoto was jonesing for Sasuke, but this has gone way too far. One of the few things that could redeem him at this point is to 1) have Orochimaru secretly residing in Sasuke's mind, waiting to seize the opportunity to finally get Itachi's body that he'd been craving for so long and then to achieve that goal, therefore revealing Sasuke to be nowhere near the level everyone seems to assume he is; 2) have Sasuke be overwhelmed by the exertion of going stage two right after forcing his way out of tsukuyomi and drop down several notches in power, even then only [I]slightly[/I] resembling what should have happened; 3) have Itachi turn not-stupid and have evaded the shadow shurikens by leaping [I]to the side[/I] and not [I]between[/I] the wheeling circles of death; 4) have Sasuke drop dead from a heart attack. Now, [I]that[/I] would be a thrilling conclusion. (Wait. Maybe I shouldn't give Kishimoto ideas. After all, even if something seems beyond stupid, he [I]might just do it.[/I] Grr. Despite everything, I actually [I]do[/I] hold out some hope for this fights conclusion. Though, this scene will either make or break the story in my mind. As for Kishimoto taking his characters in a new direction, I could see that. By degrading Itachi the way he has, I still think he will have hurt himself in the long-run. Naruto can only be so powerful without completely giving in to the fox. How is he supposed to be able to accomplish anything against someone so seemingly absurd?

I'm digging Kenpachi right now. His characterization in this chapter is wonderful. I mean, he's laid open all the way to his ribs and his expression is one of "And? So what?" Nnoitora really needs to get with the program, though. When you're up against Kenpachi and you have another trick up your sleeve, or rather another arm in your body, don't waste the opportunity by just going for a side shot. Shove that newly revealed appendage through his heart or his neck. [I]That[/I] might actually accomplish something. I'm slightly intrigued by Ichigo's remark about Inoue. It isn't quite clear yet what exactly it entails, but it does make it seem like [I]everyone[/I] and their mothers can get stronger by going to Hueco Mundo. That's fine by me. Orihime can morph into the next Tetsuo for all I care. Just keep the story moving.

This fight feels wrong to me. It doesn't feel like Kishimoto. Manga, especially shonen manga, is always supporting that if you have a good heart and powerful motivation, you can achieve anything. Naruto himself is the embodiment of that theme. What this fight is showing is that actually, you should be willing to go to [I]any[/I] ends, evil or not, to achieve your goals, since [I]apparently[/I] "going to the darkside" is sometimes the only way to get the job done. Kishimoto doesn't write like that, so what's going on? Sasuke had been slaving away for twelve years, fueled by his need for revenge, pushing further and further ahead. And yet Itachi had always towered over him, dwarfing his brother in every respect. But now, since joining Orochimaru, [I]the devil himself[/I], Sasuke is essentially *****-slapping him around. This whole situation feels off. [B]Itachi isn't weak.[/B] Going blind or not, exhausted from using mangekyou or not, he's smart enough, insightful enough, to not get stabbed in the leg by a detachable shuriken. So, [I]why[/I] would Kishimoto do this? [B][I]Why??[/I][/B] If the only way Kishimoto knows how to kill off bad-guys is in sloppy, anti-climactic fights, I will be deeply disappointed. If Orochimaru is [I]truly gone[/I] and Itachi [I]really dies[/I], then this is [I][B]lame[/B][/I]. Building up your antagonists to such a ludicrous level just to give them such weak endings is, no offense, bad writing. It undermines the entire story. All I can hope is that this doesn't end the way it seems it will. To a degree, I will have lost faith in him if it does. You can tell I am not pleased.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Heh, I think it's better we just accept it's a plot-hole and move on, otherwise I think we'll end up going insane before we reach any kind of satisfactory conclusion.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] I accept your proposal and will treat it as an executive decision. Henceforth, there will be no dwelling on this matter. Meeting adjourned. On to other business... Kenpachi's battling right now, correct? I'd almost forgotten. Funny how carried away I can get.:animesmil So, let's focus on someone's impending doom. It will serve as a great distraction. Many of the captains have their entire appearance change when they bankai. Any guesses on what might happen to Kenpachi if he were to do the same? A wardrobe change, perhaps? I'm really more interested in what the nature of his blade would be than his clothes, but that's for another time. I see his torn captain's robe being replaced by something underworldly. Dark and wicked looking, perhaps resembling fangs - that's what I imagine. Or, we could all be completely surprised and find out his blade has a nature reminiscent of Yachiru, so Kenpachi ends up in pink or or a light purple, some kind of pastels. That would be deliciously terrible. I'm still leaning more towards the former, though. (ya think?)

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Really, that's something Kubo needs to explain. I always assumed that souls in Soul Society must die at a similarly constant rate to those of the real world, even despite the live-expectency, which even then fluctuates depending on the area.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] There will always be holes in every story. I guess what really upsets me is that I notice them, not that they exist. If only I didn't know about them I wouldn't be distracted by them. It's interesting to think that living in a different place would reflect itself in your lifespan. Maybe the stronger your reiatsu the longer you live? Perhaps that's really why those in the 13 squads live so long - they're more powerful than the others. If not everyone in Soul Society lives hundreds or thousands of years, then the balance wouldn't be as big a problem. The new children being born in Soul Society would account for the growth in population of the real world. And those few that live seemingly forever would pale in significance to the vast hordes of lower spiritual power when it comes to keeping the balance. Then, maybe it really would matter if the Quincy destroy hollows instead of "cleansing" them, or whatever. But, then again, it could be that [I]everyone[/I] is supposed to live for a frickin' long time and they just can't continue having children after a certain age, keeping the total population stable. (I mean, if people who live to be 1000 can have kids until they're "middle-aged"...every single person could have 8 generations of grand-kids before they died. What would [I]that[/I] do for the balance? 'Eek' is all I have to say.) That would mean that people in Soul Society would all be dying off just as regularly as people in the real world, just all around the same [I]extremely[/I] old age after perhaps having a few children. So it would resemble standard living here...just delayed.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]...because Shinigami can live for so long.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Obviously, that's true. They live a very long time. But how does that work with keeping the balance between Soul Society and earth? If it's life for life, shouldn't Soul Society have been overpopulated by short-lived humans long ago? Everyone in Sould Society has the potential of living that long, right? They aren't being killed off all the time to be sent back to earth, so how does any of this actually result in keeping the balance? Gavin, you stated earlier, [QUOTE]"I think that when Shinigami die, they're reincarnated back to Earth as new people, even the ones who were born in Soul Society in the first place. It's all part of that whole balance things, souls in motion between the two worlds, and Shinigami are really just powerful souls."[/QUOTE] This is what Kubo has told us. But when I think about it, it doesn't really make any sense. It's kind of like saying that every ant in this world is replaced at death with a bird, and vice versa. Unless birds were reproducing like mad, it would be impossible. And even [I]then[/I], we all know it's imposible. So, unless someone from Soul Society is involuntarily called to the human world as a replacement when someone dies (something we know isn't the case since we've heard nothing of people randomly disappearing - I mean, surely it would be a random lottery that not even those in the 13 squads would be protected from), the balance of the universe is lost. The only other option is that the vast majority of humans never go to Soul Society. They are simply instantly reborn as other humans. (This is one of the simple reasons why reincarnation is a fairly obvious no-no in reality. 1) "Balance" is impossible when in one hand you claim every living thing is simply recycled material and in the other you have an exponentially growing total population. 2) What would a slug have to do to "move up or down the chain"? and 3) [I][B]Why?[/B][/I] - I definitely don't want to turn this into a religious debate. I'm just stating the obvious.:animesmil) I'm probably sucking the fun out of a lot of this. I'm not critiquing Kubo or his creativity. I just think it's interesting I've never heard someone bring up this point before, including myself not thinking about it until now.

[quote name='Gavin'][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1]I just can't see that as being realistic because I don't think captains get killed/replaced that often... [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1] ...So yeah, you're right when you say people are probably used to a relatively often changing captain roster, at least for souls which can live over a thousand years but even that in itself doesn't make sense for a few reasons....[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=1] Meh, as I said, very confusing.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE] So... you kinda agree with me? Or not? Maybe? I don't actually have any real knowledge of the subject, since until yesterday or whenever I'd never even wondered about it. It just seems like we've been exposed to a bit of shuffling within the ranks. What we really need is Kubo to just come out and produce a list detailing the history of the 13 squads. I don't think a publisher will go for it, though. They'd probably argue it's better to leave some mystery in every piece of art. Whatever.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Ah, [url=http://sractheninja.deviantart.com/art/Naruto-Sasuke-Fails-At-Pokemon-59684795]here it is[/url]. Poor Sasuke, it's just too easy to mock him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] That is amazing. Though it's pretty obvious Kishimoto has thrown all the laws of nature out the window based on plenty of things besides the "wheel of elementals". Physics? Who ever heard of that? Or blunt force trauma? Not in a ninja's world.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]...I just don't see Hitsugaya as being a captain for fifty years...[/SIZE][/QUOTE] That's why I used the plural "newbies". As in, [I]several[/I] people had been shifted around, filling that spot as 10th squad captain, and [I]then[/I] it settled on Hitsugaya. It would have meant changing things more frequently, but I don't think it would have been that unlikely. You try things out until you settle on one setup that you like. This happens with businesses quite often. A top executive steps down, a temporary replacement is found, some shuffling within the business hierarchy happens, and then the final choice is made - and Hitsugaya is chosen for captain. Now, if most of the captains are staunchly against change, this would be unlikely. I agree, it's much more fun envisioning Isshin rubbing shoulders with Byakuya. What about squad 3? Gin replaced someone, albeit someone other than Isshin or Renji would be able to recognize him too. But that also points to a quicker turn around within the captains ranks. Kenpachi's seizing of squad 11 doesn't seem to have happened all that terribly long ago either. I think these people are more accustomed to change than we may think.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Just for laughs, I love it if turned out that Isshin's old squad was the Sixth, just so we could see a younger Byakuya and laugh at how Isshin treated him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Could that explain some of the hostility we see between the two? Or even why Byakuya seems to really chafe around his own Lieutenant? Renji's so similar to Ichigo, and Ichigo to his father, that that would be hysterical. It would probably make a bit of sense if he'd been captain of squad Ten, though. Perhaps that's why Hitsugaya is so inexperienced. They've just been filling the spot Isshin left with the newbies. People keep getting shifted around, so it's a possibility.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]So yeah, with the Sannin, it's Rock/Paper/Scissors.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] Nice way of putting it. They're kind of the embodiment of the struggle for dominance between the three jutsu types. Rock/Paper/Scissors. Taijutsu/Genjutsu/Ninjutsu. Force/Cunning/Skill. Jiraiya/Itachi/Orochimaru. I like it.

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]And that's where I normally get tossed around in circles.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE] There probably are inconsistencies, but that's pretty much inevitable in a story this size. Like you said, it doesn't so much matter who is stronger than who - unless they end up fighting each other.

[quote name='Memphis'][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]...I recall Orochimaru stating that Itachi was better than him... perhaps it does come down to abilities/skills instead of power.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE] Orochimaru most certainly meant that Itachi would be superior in a fight that required him to lock eyes with his opponent. Itachi, of course, would win, his having mangekyou sharingan and all. But as for Itachi being stronger overall... If that were the case, why would Sasuke ever go to train under someone weaker than the person he intended to kill? His whole purpose in joining Orochimaru was to surpass his brother, something he concluded would naturally come from training under him. Or are you saying Itachi is the strongest ninja in the world and thus absolutely [I]anyone[/I] that Sasuke trained under would be inferior to him? I hope you don't think that. As for Jiraiya being stronger than Itachi - don't forget that when Itachi and Kisame saw Naruto traveling with Jiraiya, Itachi *prudently* determined that taking him on would be foolish. If Itachi [I]by himself[/I] was superior to Jiraiya, surely with Kisame as backup he would have taken confronted him and secured the kyuubi for Akatsuki, especially since he could have approached Jiraiya when he and Naruto were off training and isolated from the village, thus avoiding sparking a war. Since throughout the entire 2 1/2 year training period Itachi never took this opportunity, he must have still considered Jiraiya superior to himself.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]With Aizen though, I just can't picture him as being Yamamoto's equal in terms of power, simply because if he was, I don't think he'd have needed to use the scheme he did to get the hyougokyou.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] I should be more careful with how I phrase things. In terms of strength, ie total reiatsu, Yamamoto could very well be superior. As far as cunning, plotting, execution of plans and ultimately who would win in a battle, I think that would likely go to Aizen, if for no other reason than I can't see him even entering a battle he doesn't think himself capable of winning. If he realized he'd be going up against someone that could overpower him, he would maneuver things prior to the battle so as to give him an advantage. So far, he's done this with ease. Just like we all get the sense that Gin revels in plotting and backstabbing, I believe Aizen would choose scheming over strightforward confrontation any day. It just feels like his style. Some people find their thrills in long drawn-out stings. Nothing brings them deeper satisfaction. It's obvious Aizen loves manipulating people. We can see that in his dealings with poor Hinamori, and more recently Orihime. You can see in his eyes that he derives great pleasure from it, the sick bastard. [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]I'm just curious, do you eventually see Isshin and Ryuuken showing up in Hueco Mundo ? I'd love to see Ichigo's face when he realises his father is potentially his equal if not stronger than him.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] It would be a waste for those two to stay far away from the meat of the story, so I hope they do something of the sort. Though, if the hougyoku requires the absorption of a large spiritually dense area, is there a possibility there will be some form of all-out offensive in Karakura town? What all is involved in targeting the right area for the hougyoku? Will Aizen need to send men to stake out the area, laying beacons or something for the destruction to take place within it? Or is it just going to happen that way naturally? I would love to see Isshin and Ryuuken get into the thick of things, but I think Isshin at least will want to stay close to his girls, ensuring their protection. As for Ryuuken, it would be great character development if he was willing to traverse dimensions on behalf of others. I'm not sure he'd go so far as that, but it would be interesting. [quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]It's actually really nice to have someone else to discuss Bleach with, usually this thread is almost completely dead except for two or three posts around the new chapters.[/SIZE][/QUOTE] One thing you'll find with time - I love me a good discussion, especially about things I find of interest. My brother and I can carry on about things like this (mostly with Naruto, which he's writing an epic fanfic about) for hours, literally. Recently we had an in-depth discussion on exactly how chakra can cushion the body's cells so that rapid acceleration doesn't rupture internal organs. Also, precisely how henge works, especially things like Naruto and Gamabunta's joint henge. We concluded the excess size and density is achieved by materializing and solidifying your chakra, turning it into physical matter. The hard part comes when you try to compact yourself into a smaller space than your body would normally inhabit, a la Naruto becoming a fuuma shuriken. Good stuff, that. The only problem with this - sometimes it can be hard to shut me up.:animesmil

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]Thoughts on whether or not Aizen has transformed himself into a Vaizard ?[/SIZE][/QUOTE] It could explain a bit, though that alone wouldn't impact his ability to fool everyone, nor would it aid him when forcing others into submission using his reiatsu. After all, it's evident that until a vaizard actually calls on those powers and puts on their mask, their standard walking-around power isn't affected. But, it would also support my reading of Aizen's thoughts of Ichigo. If he had turned Vaizard, he'd have more reason than anyone to wonder whether this new "recruit" would do the same. Or, it could be that just as the other Vaizards could tell Ichigo was transforming, he picked up on it as well. Either way, it would be an interesting development. It would also lead to an even more impressive showdown between the two, something any mangaka would salivate over. Would you mind mentioning just one of my thoughts you've taken exception to? You seem to have a bit (and by that I mean a lot) of knowledge of specific going-ons within the world of bleach, so perhaps you could bring something to my attention I hadn't thought of before. To tell the truth, I only started reading the manga after getting caught up with the anime during the Bound arc, and since at times the anime takes certain liberties and expands on things from the way they are portrayed in the manga, my viewpoint could be skewed. Enlighten me, if you would (and I don't mean that as a challenge, I'm serious about wanting to get things straight in my head).

I'm assuming you did a tad of research to bring up some of those points, but if not, you have far better recall than I do. My hat comes off to you. My deal with Aizen sending Ulquiorra is really quite simple. He had enough sense to suspect that Ichigo would grow into someone stronger than any other captain (because, after all, if his suspicion was simply that Ichigo was captain-class or high-level captain-class, why treat him as different from any other captain, none of which Aizen ordered an assassination on?), and simply based on that suspicion, Ulquiorra should have killed him. By leaving without finishing him off, it was as if he was saying, "Coming here was a waste of time. There is no way this guy will ever prove a threat to us." Well, it's hard to believe Aizen would be such a bad judge of potential that he would order something that'd turn out to have been completely useless. Not to mention, we as the reader know good and well that Ichigo will indeed be a threat, probably if not certainly facing off against Aizen in the end, so his perceptions were correct. All I'm saying is that Aizen sent men who would have been capable of killing him, and [I]they[/I] so underestimated Ichigo as to leave him alive. If Ichigo truly was as patheic as Ulquiorra believed, Aizen would have been a fool for even suggesting he could prove a threat. And we know that Aizen is no fool. As for our ability to judge Aizen's current strength, I agree that nothing we say can be proven or certain since he hasn't by any means gone all out against someone, but I think we can go as far as to say he is stronger than any of the current captains, and probably stronger than the two weakest of them combined. Why do I say this? Partially due to his suspicion of Ichigo, but also because all the other captains bought it when he supposedly died. Being able to so utterly conceal one's now proven monstrous strength is a big tell when it comes to how skilled and powerful someone is, especially when the people around that person are of an extremely high level themselves, people who are of the ability to sense even the most minute hint of reiatsu. He had them so utterly fooled that they believed initially a mere ryoka may have been capable of his murder. True, some of them suspected other captains of this act, but that doesn't change the fact that they all believed he was weak enough to fall, seemingly without a struggle. The courtyard he "died" in was undamaged, leading everyone to believe he'd been swiftly and thoroughly defeated. If any of those other captains had even the least bit of confidence in his ability to put up fight, they would have instantly doubted his death. Even if it was a sneak attack or an unexpected betrayal that befell him, any other captain would have managed at least a single attack in self-defense, leaving evidence of a struggle, not just an immaculate courtyard. We get the feeling that even though all the other captains haven't necessarily fought full-strength against each other, they have a pretty good understanding of how powerful the other is. The only one that seems to be a bit hard to gauge is Kenpachi, as shown in his battle with Komamura and Tousen. They didn't initially believe it would be so difficult against him. What I'm saying is that Aizen was grossly underestimated by his fellow captains. The only way for a captain to be able to underestimate another to that degree is if the one being underestimated is leaps and bounds beyond anything they would ever have expected. My claim that Aizen could take on two of the less-skilled captains is based on Yamamoto's standoff with Kyoraku and Ukitake (and no, I'm not dissing them or calling into question their rights to be captains). Though we didn't really get to see much, it appeared that Yamamoto could very well have been a match for those two. That being said, I believe Aizen has been hinted at wielding power beyond that of Yamamoto, or at least on par. As always, this can't be substantially proven, since only a battle between the two would definitively settle that question. But, by putting everything together, I believe we can conclude that Aizen could take on Kyoraku and Ukitake himself. I'd be willing to bet he could battle evenly with Komamura teamed with Soifon, especially if he could muster full-power out of his kidou spells, but that's utter and complete speculation. I guess I'm trying to say that in my mind, it would [I]definitely[/I] take two or more captains to defeat him, with the exception of Ichigo, who, as the main protagonist and one Aizen was worried about, is the wild card that could trump all. At least that's how this story had better work, or we're being misled, I tell you. I've blathered for long enough ([I]quite[/I] long enough). Don't be overly concerned with picking apart my claims. After all, I've said plenty of times what others have said: We won't know until we see it. I just hope we really do see it.

[quote name='Kei'][color=darkblue][size=1]...Should [Itachi] be able to aquire the power he wants and gain even more from Madara (or his embodiment, however you want to view it), it's likely that there would be a throwdown between the two where Pein gets the short end of the stick...[/color][/size][/QUOTE] I'd have to disagree about how powerful everyone seems to think Itachi is. Before his vision started failing, when he and Kisame first came into Konoha to scout out Naruto, Itachi took the bait and engaged Kurenai and Asuma in combat. He [I]continued[/I] fighting after Kakashi arrived, and apparently found him threatening enough to use Tsukiyomi on him. Itachi knows better than anyone how draining that technique is, but he pulled it out against him even when it had basically come down to a two-on-one fight. With the threat of the tsukiyomi, it would have been hard for Asuma and Kurenai to do anything further, especially with Kakashi warning them against it. So, at that point, Itachi didn't really [I]need[/I] to use tsukiyomi, that is, unless he thought it necessary to quickly defeat his opponent. Up until then in the fight, Kakashi had proven himself stronger than Asuma and Kurenai combined, and although Itachi had had the upper hand, he'd been able to pretty much match him in speed and hand-sign prowess. I'm not saying Kakashi could have won. Far from it. I'm just saying he was viewed as a major threat, so much so that Itachi warned Kisame about fighting him, pretty much saying Kisame would take major injury even if he managed to kill Kakashi first. What's the point of this rambling? Well, other than proving my avatar isn't for looks (yes, obviously, I adore Kakashi), it goes without saying that anyone who would even have a chance of defeating Jiraiya would have to be at a level where Kakashi would barely be viewed as a threat, not someone you'd pull out your most powerful genjutsu against. Afterall, what was the feeling Kakashi got when staring down Orochimaru over Sasuke's newly curse-mark-sealed and incapacitated body? Did he not feel his imminent death if they fought? And who would argue that Jiraiya isn't dang near right at Orochimaru's level by now? That's the feeling I believe we're supposed to have. So, per the transitive property, if Jiraiya is equal to Orochimaru, and Orochimaru is [B]far superior[/B] to Kakashi, then Jiraiya is [B]far superior[/B] to Kakashi. And if Pein was soundly able to kill Jiraiya, then he is worlds beyond Kakashi, [I]the person Itachi felt threatened by[/I]. True, it has been two and half years, but as was noted by several others, the current Itachi, though perhaps experiencing some growth in skill over the last few years, has also had to contend with failing eyesight, such that he is willing to rush his encounter with Sasuke and obtain his eyes now, as opposed to waiting until he's developed the mangekyou, which was his purpose in letting him be at the start. So, I guess my point is that even if Itachi obtained Sasuke's eyes (which I doubt Kishimoto would have happen) they would not be the same as Madara's, so Itachi getting eyes of that particular kind with which to face off against Pein isn't likely, or in my opinion, possible. Simple version: Itachi: not miles above Kakashi, though far above. Jiraiya: miles above Kakashi, and therefore, for all intents and purposes, above Itachi. Pein: able to kill Jiraiya, hence stronger than him. Everything put together: Pein stronger than Itachi, new eyes or no. I might bring up other points later. For now, I'm late to my doctor's appointment.

[quote name='Gavin'][SIZE="1"]...if too many of his Espada are killed off, it'll make him potentially vulnerable, and many great dictators have died from underestimating their opponents...[/SIZE][/QUOTE] One thing I don't think he would ever do is underestimate someone. Case in point: Aizen sent Ulquiorra and Yami to kill Ichigo, knowing him to be a threat; Ulquiorra determined he [I]wasn't[/I] a threat, and left him alive. Whose judgement was correct? I don't doubt Aizen could find himself overwhelmed if he's not careful, but I just can't see him [I]not[/I] being careful. I think he's prepared himself against everything he's aware of his enemy having in their posession. What could do him in is going up against opponents who have matured and grown faster than anticipated since this series of fights began. Even he could never perfectly gage someone's potential, just their current strength, active rate of improvement, and [I]perceived[/I] final strength. If those both leap forward unexpectedly... he could be in for a world of hurt. That being said, how many and which Shinigami do you believe 1. it would take to soundly but not overwhelmingly defeat him? and 2. will actually end up in the final showdown against him? Just wondering your opinions.