Buffy: The Slayer of Vampires

[Angelus]

Shy, dont forget about the return of Faith to Sunnydale when you are talking about the finnal battle.

In last weeks episode Faith leaves LA with Willow so they can both join the good fight back in Sunnydale.

[Manic Webb]

I missed the first half of the episode...

Anyway, I found the rest of the episode interesting. The whole thing with William The Bloody(awful poet)'s mother was interesting. Spike learned the difference between what he did as a soulless vampire and what he's like now that he has a soul. Everything he did without his soul-- that wasn't him, it was a demon in his body. He doesn't blame himself.

Angel/Angelus is different from Spike. Angel was so torn from his misdeeds as a soulless vamp, that he has a split personality. Spike doesn't refer to his previous self as another person. Angel does. Angel and Angelus are two different people. Although Spike came to terms with his soulless past, Angel never will. His two selves hate one another. I just saw this week's episode of Angel; Angel doesn't feel guilty about anything Angelus did over the past few weeks. As far as he's concerned, Angelus is some other guy who shares his body.

Weird.

[Lady Macaiodh]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Endymion [/i]
[B]Angel/Angelus is different from Spike. Angel was so torn from his misdeeds as a soulless vamp, that he has a split personality. Spike doesn't refer to his previous self as another person. Angel does. Angel and Angelus are two different people. Although Spike came to terms with his soulless past, Angel never will. His two selves hate one another. I just saw this week's episode of Angel; Angel doesn't feel guilty about anything Angelus did over the past few weeks. As far as he's concerned, Angelus is some other guy who shares his body.

Weird. [/B][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=darkblue]You know, that is a really good point. I never realized it. And everyone is pretty eager to forgive Angel when he reverts, & recognizes Angelus as a seperate entity, too. But with Spike it's different. People only try to kill Angelus as a last resort, after desperately trying to "save" him.

I didn't see the Buffy episode from this week, so I'm not quite sure what's going on. NBC is showing two episodes of Angel this week. I just saw "Release" & "Orpheus" is coming on after SNL, Smallville, & Everwood, at 3 AM. Jeez, I'm going to be up late, but at least I'll be mostly caught up by then., [/COLOR]

[Sere Tuscumbia]

OMG. Shy, I love you. GILES IS A POD PERSON, I SWEAR. The real Giles died and has been replaced by this evil pod thingie that isn't anything like my loving, sweet, Season One Giles. *sob sob* I want my Giles back . . . Nyeh.

Evil bad pod people.

And Angelus, thank you for being Capt. Obvious. Shy dear isn't stupid, and I'm sure he's already known that for a while.

However, I am [I]amped[/I] for next weeks 'Angel'. Ooooo . . . it looks SO good, and I JUST. CAN'T. WAIT. ^_^

However, did everyone know that Charisma had her baby? Yay Charisma! ^_^ I forgot the baby's name, but it's a boy, and I'm so happy! No more Cordy looking as big as a house!

Of course, there's talk that they're going to stop Angel, I think. I can't remember if that was what my sissy was talking about or something in the episode. BOTHER. @_@;;

But I can tell you, I'm looking more forward to 'Angel' than I am to 'Buffy'. I mean, Robin is cute and all, but I just wish he'd [I]die[/I] already. His whole 'I'm going to kill Spike the first chance I can' thing has been old for a while. And I don't think that Spike kicking his butt is going to help the matters any . . .

--Sere

[Guest Watinabe]

I don't know much about the current season but I watch it from time to time and enjoy it especially spike,... his names spike (well not his real name but o well) and he has a kick *** accent that I wish I had not to mention without that chip he would be back to suckin babes and killin slayers well accept for his strange and dissagreable love Buffy I didn't like that they did that though^-^ Hey who likes Spike better than Angel ME. (I like angels series though to)

[Manic Webb]

I think it's time for Spike to die. He's not 100% demon like he was before, but he's not trying to make amends for past deeds like Angel. He can't/won't/shouldn't go back to being an awful poet, like he was before he was sired. He's touched a deep, dark part of his own mind, and he doesn't seem to want to be a good man again.

He's not evil because he's a vampire, he's evil because he wants to be. There's no reason Buffy should trust him. Since he's had his soul, he's already fed off of a few people. This time around, if Spike helps out, there's absolutely nothing stopping him from turning on the Scoobies; no chips, no sense of morality. He's gone from a soulless demon to a sociopath who drinks blood and only helps out for his own reasons.

[Shy]

[size=1]I completely agree with you Endymion.

But I don't think that Spike would openly attack any of the Scoobies (except for Robin, who doesn't count as a Scooby anymore). Spike has proven time and again that he is %100 completely devoted to Buffy, and [i]only[/i] Buffy. As long as Buffy is in charge of the SIT's, and the Scoobies then they are safe from Spike.

He could care less about everyone else in the group, the only reason he has done so much good is that he wanted to make Buffy happy. If being good doesn't make Buffy happy, then Spike is going to revert to his older ways. Giles and Robin were right to try and kill Spike, but they should have asked for help. Xander and Kennedy would have been more than happy to stake him.

Which BtVS character would everyone like to see die this season?

-Shy[/size]

[Guest Watinabe]

Yhea It might be time for him to die but that's the day I stop watching the series I already think its dropped a bit since the first two (really good) seasons@_@ and I don't think anyone else is set up to die right now... wait! Giles could die that would be interesting:naughty:

[Manic Webb]

Hmm... who should die? Wood, Spike, and maybe half of the Potential Slayers. Yeah, that should work out nicely.

If the show continued one more season (I wish), and I could choose a Scooby line-up, I'd want Buffy, Dawn, Xander, Willow, Anya, and (yes, even) Kennedy.
Buffy is sorta necessary, Xander is the glue that holds the team together, Dawn is finally getting to be useful, Willow is necessary and bad as hell, Anya is hilarious, and Kennedy [i]seriously[/i] needs some further developement.
I'd also want Oz to come back, but then that'd just be weird, what with Willow coming out and all.

--EDIT--
I forgot Faith! Faith has always been my favorite Slayer! If you ask me, that girl needs a spin-off, but without the generic formula Joss used on characters on both Buffy & Angel. (Fred=Willow, Lorn=Anya, Gunn=Xander/Spike)

[Guest Watinabe]

Faith is the best as a matter of fact (even though this would be crazy and is mabey off subject) if Faith and Spike teamed up to form an evil duo I would love watching them tear Buffy apart^_^ now that would be good.

[Shy]

[size=1]I want Spike to die. His character has pretty much everything that he can. It is better that he go out with a bang, rather than keep him around so that Spike fans will be happy.

Robin has been one of my favorite characters this season. But the last episode proved that his character doesn't have very much depth. It seems like he is only there to add more drama to the current situation with Spike. The death of Robin would not shock anyone, but it is something that I would like to see.

I want to see Anya live, even though Emma Caulfield has not expressed interest in continuing her character. Anya and Xander were such a great couple, I am still hoping that they have a happy ending together. But if I had to choose between them, I would much rather see something bad happen to Xander. Anya is too funny to give up.

Dawn and Kennedy [i]need[/i] to live. Both of them are very interesting, and they have plenty of room for development. I think that either of them would be an interesting addition to the cast of 'Angel', Dawn moreso than Kennedy. Andrew does not belong on 'Angel', he would completely mess up the show. But he might be good in a spin-off.

I would like to see a spin-off starring Gunn. In the last episode of 'Angel' he proved that he was a strong enough actor to pull of being the lead. He and Gwen have a lot of chemistry, so I would include her in it as well. They could travel the world as international thieves and do-gooders., along with Andrew, who would act as comedy relief and help them out on certain missions where demon summoning is necessary. By traveling the world the group would get to see aspects of the Buffy/Angel universe that have not been explored. I would also like to include Amy somehow, seeing as the group could use a Wicca and Amy?s character needs some serious development. So yeah, that is my weird concept for a spin-off. Nothing fancy.

-Shy[/size]

[Guest Watinabe]

O-o you misunderstand I'm already unhappy with the series I just like Spike I fully realize that he's already burnt out he was after that god women part of the season^_^ I just liked the series first two seasons anyway. Is gunn the young overeager slayer in Angle?.

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]Does anyone think they're going to kill off Buffy by the end of the show, since there are all these potential slayers now? I have a feeling that's what they're going to do.

Watinabe, your posts are really hard for me to read. Can you maybe use punctuation? I'm not trying to boss you around, though.[/color]

[Manic Webb]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i]
[B][color=darkblue]Does anyone think they're going to kill off Buffy by the end of the show, since there are all these potential slayers now? I have a feeling that's what they're going to do.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought about that, but then none of the Potentials would become the Slayer if Buffy died. If that were the case, one of them would already be the Slayer from Buffy's most recent death ("most recent." It's sad when you come back from the dead several times).

I think Buffy is exempt from Slayer legend, now. After her first death, I think Kendra techinically became "the" Slayer, while Buffy is supposed to be long-since death (twice, even). When Kendra died, Faith became the Slayer. I think Faith would have to die in order for one of the Potentials to become the Slayer, not Buffy.

I was just wondering... if the average Slayer doesn't live long past 20 (Buffy died exactly at 20), then what does that mean for Faith, who should be 22 by now? Shouldn't she have died by now, or is due to die very soon?

[Lady Macaiodh]

[COLOR=darkblue]Before I get to Buffy commentary, there is one thing...

AIEEEEE! I don't know about the rest of you, but I found the scenes from "Orpheus" between Willow & Fred so utterly annoying that I was forced to bash my skull against the wall on several occassions in order to retain my sanity. I'm not joking whatsoever. I can't emphasize enough that I actually [i]felt[/i] myself on the verge of several aneurysms.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against either of these characters. (Okay, I lied. The only way I'd be able to stand Fred is if her voice lowered a few keys & she stopped staring around soulfully. And maybe not even then.)

But I love Willow! She is so cool. And the scenes were so bad that I actually wished she'd shut up. I mean, she & Fred have this way of speaking that is quite cute in controlled doses, but... having a conversation? Together? No. I burned everything I owned that was pink after that episode, just out of protest.

About Faith's life-span: I am not surprised at all that she's still around. First of all, I have no idea who selects the Slayers (higher powers?), but they did a pretty crappy job of it with Faith, since she exploited her powers for awhile. So the fact that she's a Slayer really doesn't make sense. Also, she's a great character, & it makes sense that she'd be able to squeak her way out of situations (ratings, people). For example, "Orpheus". All Angel had to do was give her a pep talk & she practically came back from the dead.

Underlying trait: Faith didn't grow up with the best blessings in life. She's more of a fighter by nature than Buffy. Even Buffy herself has morphed after all that's happened, only Faith has a lifetime of that stuff. I never really believed she ever wanted to die, because then she'd be defeated. She's the type of person who would attempt suicide, but change her mind at the last minute, & use her last ounce of strength to save herself.

Third, Slayers are supposed to be fighting constantly, every night if they can, or day. Faith laid low for a long time. She didn't fulfill her Slayer duties at all. She has risked herself dramatically, but not nearly as often as a typical Slayer would. I'm kind of iffy on the change to "goodness" the past couple of years but at least she still has the feisty attitude.

If anyone should be in question regarding the longevity of a Slayer, it's Buffy. Thank god for Willow. And if you want my opinion, it's pretty screwed up that all the Slayers get robbed of it all, right at their prime of life. I mean, Buffy should be on the path to having more perfect blond god-like-in-beauty children. If she dies before having a kid, those unequaled Buffy Summers genes will be wasted. Maybe this is why Buffy gets in relationships with weirdos. She knows her life can never be normal, & that she could die at any minute. After all, it's her [i]duty[/i] (gag).

Spike? Die? ::adds several people to her **** list:: Spike has not been re-souled for very long & the need to drink blood is still overwhelming. Angel went through the same thing. It took him decades to get control of it. So I wouldn't be jumping to any conclusions about Spike's nature right now, since he's in an incredibly volatile state. His character has tons of development potential, but unfortunately we will probably not see it. And above all, I would like to see the Buffy/Spike situation resolved. It'd be nice for something to turn out happily for her romantically & I like Buffy & Spike better than any other match.

Sorry for the long post, but I've been thinking about this all night. ::throws herself off cliff::[/COLOR]

[vegeta rocker]

i don't get the big deal about buffy. It just seems like clueless with a hot vampire (spike).
I think its stupid and yucky.

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by vegeta rocker [/i]
[B]i don't get the big deal about buffy. It just seems like clueless with a hot vampire (spike).
I think its stupid and yucky. [/B][/QUOTE]
[size=1]If you don't like the show then don't bother to post in the thread. And if you think it is anything like 'Clueless' then you have obviously never seen an episode of BtVS in your entire life. Anyway, in response to Lady M...

Faith is a much more independent Slayer. She makes Buffy look like a girl scout in comparison, and a lot of that is because of their upbringing. If Buffy had never become a Slayer then she would probably would have ended up as Cordelia's best friend or something. She used to be a normal, stupid teenager, but her responsibilities as a Slayer caused her to mature really quickly. If Faith had never become a Slayer she would probably be the same way that she is now. She is a rebel, while Buffy is a leader.

Also, I think we can all agree with Bufy would have died a million times over if it weren't for the help of the Scoobies. Faith never had any of the advantages that Buffy had, so she had to learn to take care of herself in a fight. Faith is much mnore of a 'real' Slayer than Buffy ever was. Her job is to kill vampires and demons, not invite them to her birthday party.

Even though Faith completely ignores the Watcher's Council, she still knows that her job is to fight the forces of evil. Buffy listened to the Watcher's Council (for a while), and she ended up falling in love with a vampire... twice. Buffy doesn't fully realize what her job is, and that is a pretty big problem.

So in conclusion, Faith is a better Slayer than Buffy. But that's just my opinion...

-Shy[/size]

[Manic Webb]

In some ways, I don't think Buffy is that different from Faith. In fact, I think Buffy becomes more and more like Faith.

Faith never listened to the Watchers Council. Buffy did for a while, but quickly rebelled against them, along with Giles.

Remember when Faith accidentally killed a man? Suddenly, the rules for normal people didn't apply to Faith anymore. As far as she was concerned, she was somewhat beyond a normal human, and she didn't have to take responsibility for her actions.
I noticed that during one of Buffy's motivational speeches this season, she said that normal rules don't aplly to her, because she's the Slayer. In fact, Buffy has been getting all high-and-mighty about her being better than everyone else. Faith was like that back in season 3.

I do have to agree with the fact that Faith is a better Slayer, though. The original Slayer said it herself (sorta); the Slayer does not walk in this world. The Slayer is supposed to be a solo act. She's not supposed to have any friends. Back in season 3, Faith didn't believe in the ties of friendship and love. She saw what she wanted from someone, took it, and left. Kendra was the same, with the way that she didn't understand why Buffy had any friends. I guess the main difference is that Buffy is used to being popular; she's too used to having friends.


One thing that sorta confuses me is the way Buffy behaved with Kendra and Faith. With Kendra, Buffy was rebellious by comparison. Kendra said that the Slayer isn't supposed to have friends, but Buffy defied that rule. Kendra believed in fighting calmly, but Buffy told Kendra to embrace that fire inside of her to become more primal.
Faith told Buffy to give in to her urges, but Buffy always backed away and tried to behave in a more calm manner. When around Faith, Buffy began to act more tamed. But not too long ago, Buffy was urging Kendra to be wilder.

You can tell I think about this show too much...

[Guest Watinabe]

Know Faith becomes more like Buffy you misunderstand ^_^ Buffy only becomes more serious not slightly evil like Faith who goes good again anyway:) in a tough way (damn she's fine)*

[Shy]

[size=1]My feelings about this episode are mixed, but I enjoyed it overall. I think I will like it more when I see it again, because there was a lot of important plot information that I wasn't paying close attention to.

The opening scene was great. Every time Cordelia talks to someone in the group you can tell that she is intmidated. She is not powerful enough to take on the entire group my herself, that's why she needed Connor. Cordelia's lies to Connor are very convincing, and I think that it was perfectly in-character for him to attack the group like that. She is both a mother figure and a love interest for Connor (ick) so of [i]course[/i] he is going to protect her until the end.

I don't like how Connor kept asking so many questions after they escaped. He needs constant reassurance that he is doing the right thing, without it he would completely snap.

I could have sworn that this show had Angel as the main character, the scenes with Angel were probably my least favorite parts of the episode. Angel just doesn't act like much of a leader anymore, and I think the group dynamic has changed since he got his soul back. Fred is research girl, Lorne keeps tabs on the demon underworld, Wes is the brains, and Gunn is the fighter. Without Angel they would still be a very efficient group. It is exactly the opposite of what is going on in 'Buffy' now, the Scoobies are a mess.

What happened to Gwen? Did she just leave town again after her night wth Gunn? I am surprised that she didn't offer to help out with the upcoming apocalypse. On a side note, I think that Fred could tell what happened between Gwen and Gunn. Fred looks so cute when she's angry, heh.

Skip came back in a big way. How did everyone interpret his little spiel about how 'everything happens for a reason'? I don't think that the ultimate, nameless (First Evil!??) evil was responsible for everything that has happened during the course of the entire series. It is naive to think that the writers had planned such an epic story arc. Moving on...

The Darla/Cordelia scene was excellent. It is a shame that they keep killing off Darla, because Julie Benz is a wonderful actress. It is also pretty ironic that Darla was fighting for the side of good, while Cordelia was urging Connor to do evil. Under 'normal' circumstances, the two girls might have been fighting for different sides. It reminded me of Joyce's return in Conversations With Dead People.

And I would like to be the first to congratulate Cordy on giving birth to a healthy African-American woman. Who saw that coming? Definitely not me.

-Shy[/size]

[Manic Webb]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shyguy [/i]
[B][size=1]And I would like to be the first to congratulate Cordy on giving birth to a healthy African-American woman. Who saw that coming? Definitely not me.[/size] [/B][/QUOTE]
LOL
My immediate reaction was "Wait a minute... she's black!"

Anyway, I liked the fact that Conner kept questioning Cordy. His ability to question her came a bit late, but at least it shows he's not completely naive.
Wait... I take that back. He's still completely naive.

I liked the fact that Darla came back to talk to Connor. It was very appropriate that Darla would to her [i]annoyingly evil[/i] child about his upcoming [i]evil[/i] child.

I'm kinda surprised that Angel & co. would figure Cordelia out so quickly. I always thought it was kinda weird that evil-Cordy would call Angelus "my sweet" and other effeminate sayings when talking to him as the Beast's Master. All of the evidence pointed to Cordy in the case of Angel's soul. The soul was taken out of the safe quietly, so someone must've simply unlocked it and took it. To assume a witch as powerful as Willow would be distracted by a simple illusion of a demon's head either meant that the Beast Master made a very amateur move, or knew that Willow was easily spooked (which she was back when she was in high school)

And what the hell is up with Cordelia's child having such a deep skin pigmentation?

[Sere Tuscumbia]

[SIZE=1]Ahh. Angel discussions. ^_^ I sat there enraptured through the entire show, because my sister was (slightly) spoiled for the episode and promised that all of the questions I've been asking through this entire weird story line would be answered.

And they were, except I think that the Angelites should just off Connor already. He's getting really annoying. All that teenage angst and such.

Of course, who else was whooping when Darla showed up again? Of course, I think that Angel and Buffy tied up real nice together in having the mothers of the children (Dawn and Connor) show up, and actually BE those people. Because, you realise, that they were both telling the truth. Joyce with her proclimation that Buffy wouldn't choose Dawn when it came time to choose (which was shown in the last Buffy episode) and Darla's little speech.

And I absolutely [B]loved[/B] the way they made Darla and Anne (that's what the captions showed for the captured girl) look at least a little bit alike. That was good.

And, as Shy pointed out, Darla was the Angel side, and Cordelia was the Devil side. I really enjoyed how they dressed Darla in light clothing (a very light pink I do believe) and Cordy in black, and, however considentially it is, Darla's hair be light, and Cordy's be dark.

That was quite lovely. ^_^

I also liked the whole thing with Skip. That really tickled me. He was almost like the Beast, except with a lot more personality. I, however, interpreted his speech differently than Shy did. I really felt that it wasn't the big evil that was really moving the pieces around, but instead fate was doing it all.

Or something equally interesting as that. I've forgotten most of what I said last night in the fact that I was really excited that Angel is going to be all new for the next like, five weeks. All nice and good. ^_^

And I could have sworn I saw the Goddess lady (or that's what I think she is . . . O_o;;) somewhere else. Maybe in another show or something, but I can't be sure.

I just know I've seen her somewhere before! ><;; So annoying.

--Sere[/SIZE]

[Manic Webb]

If by "Goddess lady" you mean the grown woman who sprouted out of Cordy's womb, then she was Helen on [i]Cleopatra 2525[/i] and I think she was on one of the shows that FOX both debuted and cancelled recently.

[Shy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Endymion [/i]
[B]If by "Goddess lady" you mean the grown woman who sprouted out of Cordy's womb, then she was Helen on [i]Cleopatra 2525[/i] and I think she was on one of the shows that FOX both debuted and cancelled recently. [/B][/QUOTE]
[size=1]She was a character on the FOX sci-fi/western 'Firefly', which was created by Joss Whedon.

Thankfully I had remained spoiler-free this season on 'Angel', so I had no idea that Cordy was going to give birth to [i]that[/i]. Someone ended up spoiling the next four episodes of 'Buffy' for me, so as a result I have become paranoid about spoilers. Sorry about the little incident earlier Sere.

So, is Cordy dead? Skip said something about the child consuming their mother, which does not seem like a good thing.

And Skip turning evil was kind of lame. I hope they don't do the same thing to Clem on 'Buffy'.

Buffy: So you were the First Evil all along?
Clem: *holding a bucket of chicken* Mwahahahaha!

-Shy[/size]

[Sere Tuscumbia]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shyguy [/i]
[B][size=1]She was a character on the FOX sci-fi/western 'Firefly', which was created by Joss Whedon.[/size][/B][/QUOTE]

[size=1]THAT'S where she's from! I was a fan of Firefly, and watched it for a while. I KNEW I had remembered her from somewhere! I hope she does as great of a job on Angel as she did on Firefly . . .[/size]


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shyguy [/i]
[B][size=1]Sorry about the little incident earlier Sere.[/size][/B][/QUOTE]


[size=1]*shrugs* Ish ok, I still luff you anyway Shy. ^_~ *huggle*

--Sere[/size]