PiccoloNamek Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Legato from Trigun is obviously extremely powerful. Why then, does he take orders from Knives? He says his goal is to make Vash suffer eternal sorrow, and maybe he's somehow working with Knives to achieve this end, but, let's say he isn't. Why listen to Knives? Couldn't he just use his powers to mangle Knives's body? Or does his plant dna protect him from Legato's telepathic abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pax Mayne Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Interesting question. IMHO, this is one of many things that makes animes so great. Things like this that are never directly stated or implied are often left to the viewer to decide upon. This allows for a lot of reflection on the show and provides insight to character depth. Honestly I cannot think of a good answer to your question, but you have given me something to think about. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazuko Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 (edited) ... Edited October 13, 2017 by Kazuko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hmm. Have you ever thought that maybe Legato had some plant DNA himself, but was a "failed experiment," kind of like Sephiroth in FFVII? That would explain why he was the only other character than Vash and Knives who had the ability to use the gun arm and was equipped with one, why he had somewhat of a long lifespan compared to the other "human" characters, why he was able to use the other powers, and why he thought humans to be an "inferior species." And yet, since he was weaker than Knives, he couldn't manipulate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hmmm, if your watching the episodes shown on TV then I dont want to say too much, wait for episode 24, they dont reveal too much, but there is a point of interest (why does Legato insist on licking his arm, for instance) I hope that isnt too obvious...... As for why he works for Knives, there is this 'superior breed' complex he has and maybe Legato has bought into this. Who knows. In the manga Im not sure of Legatos motives, but he has coins he hands to each of the GHG, if Vash gets them all he has something planned, but whatever that is, I have no idea worth mentioning. Legato has shown he can manipulate Vash, but not Knives. I have a theory on this, but I really dont want to say anything that might spoil anything so soon. He is definately not a Plant reject, he states himself that he is human. If you have see it all let me know and I will post my entire theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiccoloNamek Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Yes, I have seen it all. So post away. ;) Hmm, speaking of plants... I never really paid much attention to this, but are Vash and Knives complete plants that have simply been manipulated to resemble humans, or are they plant/human constructs? You'd think it'd be kind of hard to manipulate a plant's DNA to the point of giving it a brain and nervous system, (As well as all of the other senses that come with those) but, I don't know for sure. Gee, I hope I don't sound too "New". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 As I recall, doesn't Legato has Vash's left arm engrafted in him? I think that's why Legato can somewhat manipulate Vash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiccoloNamek [/i] [B]Yes, I have seen it all. So post away. ;) Hmm, speaking of plants... I never really paid much attention to this, but are Vash and Knives complete plants that have simply been manipulated to resemble humans, or are they plant/human constructs? You'd think it'd be kind of hard to manipulate a plant's DNA to the point of giving it a brain and nervous system, (As well as all of the other senses that come with those) but, I don't know for sure. Gee, I hope I don't sound too "New". [/B][/QUOTE] No, you don't sound too new. LOL! I think they're plant-human constructs, sort of like "the best of both worlds," and I think, but am not exactly certain, that Vash is more "human" than Knives is. That would explain his interest in women (which Knives doesn't seem to have), his love for food and drink (which Knives also seemed not to have), and why Legato could somewhat manipulate him while he couldn't manipulate Knives at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I hope we're not assuming that Knives and Vash are Plants as in pretty flowers. They are 'Power Plants' genetically manipulated something or others, I dont think they are some form of tree given sentient thoughts. Think of those big bulbs and everything that is refered to as 'lost technology'. Those two are 'lost technology' in a way. Vash and Knives were born to a Plant, it doesnt make it very obvious in the anime, and I dont know how one of those things got preggers, but there you go. Theyre are just the same only they are autonomous and free thinking (and cute, sorry but they are ^_^) I dont think Vash is 'more human' its just that he trys so hard to fit in. In fact Vash's 'flow', his power, is a lot greater than Knives. My opinion of Legato is that he always had his power to control others, thats why he is so useful to Knives and why he was able to graft Vash's arm to himself, extending his life somewhat. I think he is actually about 40. Legatos importance is underlined as he is the only GHG without number. I am unsure of whether or ot he could overpower Knives, but his immense loyalty is a factor that would prevent us from ever finding out anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiccoloNamek Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Plant_Angel [/i] [B]I hope we're not assuming that Knives and Vash are Plants as in pretty flowers.[/b][/quote] Well, no. :) [quote]They are 'Power Plants' genetically manipulated something or others, I dont think they are some form of tree given sentient thoughts. Think of those big bulbs and everything that is refered to as 'lost technology'. Those two are 'lost technology' in a way.[/quote] Well... when his mega-gun arm starts forming, his skin [i]does[/i] looks a lot like tree bark. ;) [quote]Vash and Knives were born to a Plant, it doesnt make it very obvious in the anime, and I dont know how one of those things got preggers, but there you go.[/quote] That's another thing that bothers me. What [i]exactly[/i] is a "plant". How did they come to be? How do they generate power? They need to make a sequel and explain more about that. [quote]Theyre are just the same only they are autonomous and free thinking (and cute, sorry but they are ^_^) I dont think Vash is 'more human' its just that he trys so hard to fit in. In fact Vash's 'flow', his power, is a lot greater than Knives.[/quote] Well, maybe not exactly the same. In the episode that occured inside the flying ship, when Vash goes up to comfort the bulb-plant, it looked scary and green. Maybe Vash and Knives were specially enhanced? [quote]My opinion of Legato is that he always had his power to control others, thats why he is so useful to Knives and why he was able to graft Vash's arm to himself, extending his life somewhat. I think he is actually about 40. Legatos importance is underlined as he is the only GHG without number. I am unsure of whether or ot he could overpower Knives, but his immense loyalty is a factor that would prevent us from ever finding out anyway. [/B][/QUOTE] That's what I always thought, that he had always been able to control people. I still don't see why you would give your loyalty to someone like knives, though, unless you were powerless against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I dunno... i would think that having Vash's arm within him gave him the power. Knives and Vash fought once in the past, and I'm guessing Knives blew off Vash's left arm. If Knives implanted Vash's left arm into young Legato(who didn't have powers) I would assume that gives enough reason for Legato to be loyal to Knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fate Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 [color=teal]Knives would have to be more powerful [i]mentally[/i] in a "mental pressure" sort of way to make someone like Legato have respect for him. Otherwise, Legato could've taken Knives out.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fate [/i] [B][color=teal]Knives would have to be more powerful [i]mentally[/i] in a "mental pressure" sort of way to make someone like Legato have respect for him. Otherwise, Legato could've taken Knives out.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] I think this is possibly the truth, when Vash and Wolfwood approach his fortress in Maximum 7 Wolfwood is knocked back by the force of pressure of Knives's presence. He also fails to kill him when he had a gun pointed directly at him, earlier in the series. I think Legato was convinced of his superiority. I still think Legato had his powers from the start because otherwise he was just a simple human and why should Knives give a human the power of a Plant when he could do that himself? Its difficult to determine what Plants are and the Angel Arms does look like bark......I am reminded of using the energy from a potato to power a light bulb back in first year Physics. When you suggest that Vash and Knives were "specially enhanced" do you mean some kind of human intervention in their creation? From what I gather they were found, 'mutation or evolution' was the term used. Who knows the origins of Plants, its something they havent decided to reveal yet (if they ever do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiccoloNamek Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 Well, yeah, it just seems to me that Vash and Knives were modified to be more human-like. Like I said, the creatures inside the bulbs are actually greenish and much more "plant" looking. When I saw them for the first time, I was reminded of celebi from pokemon gold, only with more of a human-shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 The Plants in the manga do have human like features, perhaps more so in than in the anime, but could never actually be mistaken as human, but I still find it unlikely that Vash and Knives were purposefully created. Evidence in both the anime and the manga suggest they werent. In the anime we are given a breif shot of Rem standing infront of the capsule they are in before they were 'born' shouting "No, dont!" while the rest of the crew stand with guns dressed in full radiation suits. Not what you would expect from a purposefully created scientific experiment. In the manga, Rem is the only crew member while the others are still in the cryogenic sleep chambers. A year after their birth, Rem takes the oppurtunity to explain to Vash and Knives what happenend. We are shown flashbacks of Rem discovering them at the bottom of a Plant bulb, the look on her face suggests that she did not expect to see them! I mention Rem was on her own because there was an autonomous Plant that came before Vash and Knives called Tessla, but she was driven to her death by over experimentation by the whole crew (a discovery that leads to Knives's ultimate hatred and distrust of humans, not to mention immense psychological damage to both of them as children) When they discover the files with photo attachments, Tesslas progress is charted from AFTER birth, and there is no evidence to suggest research was carried out on the pregnant Plant. The mother Plant is only shown having just given birth, bloody, and with Tessla at the bottom of the bulb. Nothing suggests it was planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I think the final episode explained it somewhat more: One of Vash's arms was grafted onto Legato, so that's why he has power over him but not over Knives. Or that theory could be wrong too. LOL! LOL, Plant_Angel, are you reading a fan translation or do you really know Japanese? As far as I know, the manga wasn't officially released in the U.S. so I'm wondering. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I still beleive that Legato always had his power, Knives saw his potential, and when he did blow off Vash's arm had no objection to letting Legato keep it. Legato did say in the dub "I was compelled to attach this arm to myself, I had to because you would not be by his side" Legato did it himself, meaning he was already aquainted with Knives and Knives isnt the sociable type, so he must have been important to him anyway. In the manga Knives talks to Vash on his ship, while Legato stands by to make sure Vash is unable to move the whole time. I dont think Knives would let a human in on a personal conversation if he had the ability to manipulate Vash himself. As for whether he would turn against Knives, I think he would have tried that whether or not he had his powers from Vash if thats what he intended to do, but his loyalty is a mystery. Perhaps Knives kicked his *** some time in the past, I dont know. This is just my opinion, of course. Well, MillieFan, I have imported all the Trigun and Trigun Maximum manga from Japan (thats eleven books in total so far) and the story still hasnt reached a conclusion yet. I know of a couple of sites with translations, and I do have a go myself, but my Japanese is limited and probably not worth quoting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Hmm... I think that Legato being loyal to Knives from before is possible w/ or w/o the arm and everything, but if Legato actually fought Knives before, I am pretty sure Knives would have killed him... he certainly didn't care about crippling poor Legato in the manga... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 That's so strange, the different routes the anime and manga took. I guess it's kind of like American movies based on books, if you've read the book, you think the movie's inaccurate, and if you've seen the movie first, you wonder what's going on with the book, LOL. Or at least that's how my sister is about it. Yeah, that's a good theory Meta: that could explain why the loyalty, and it could be that Knives was simply impervious to Legato's mind control abilities. If so, there would have been no way that Legato could have possibly won a fight against Knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I think Legato might be dead in the manga now, Wolfwood just shot him an awful lot. He certainly didnt look very well anyway and there was lots of blood, but he did notice that a lot of shots had 'missed'.........so I dont know. The amount of power Knives has at the moment Im not sure how even Vash is going to stop him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Which Comic is this? I only have the two trigun comics, I didn't get to Maximum yet. And Knives probably will not kill Vash... maybe decimate his body... but Knives ultimately wants to create a world with himself and Vash so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 This is Trigun Maximum 8 and everything is going to hell, with even Vash looking pathetic at the mercy of Knives and Legato. That planet is in a whole world o' trouble right now, I can tell you. What with Knives merging with Plants and seemingly no regard for his own degredation..... Don't think Knives has any intention of killing Vash whatso-ever. They are brothers after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Whoa there... you're giving away tooo much info. :p You said Legato was dead? Or did you think so and read on and decided other wise? Btw, I heard there was a new Gung-Ho-Gun called Eludithira or something like that. Is it a he/she and what ability does he/she have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plant_Angel Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Gomenasai! *~_~ I get carried away! Im not sure about Legato. He was able to survive being bent every which way by Knives in Trigun 3 so who knows. Hmmm, I just thought, that was a display of psychic Plant power but he was touching him.....maybe having Vash's arm enhanced Legato's already established ability.. I read on from that point, but Legato isnt in it past there, dont know if he was dead but he sure wasnt about to go anywhere anytime soon. Wolfwood took up a whole chapter of story with his own spin-off comic Freed Bird......*grumble grumble* Not that I dont like Mr Priest! You're refering to Elendira the Crimson-nail, the 'lost' 13th Gung Ho Gun and transvestite. He/she (how do you refer to these guys?) carries a case that fires massive bolts at an immense speed. Im not sure where his/her loyalty truly lies, but he/she is under the orders of Knives and has a strong dislike of Legato. Also seems to have an interest in tarot cards. Little is known of, uh, this person, but it is beleived that Elendira may be the strongest of all the GHG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Hmm... I heard that Legato is now being carried around by this woman whom he supposedly controls. Legato's bearer or something? And how far into the story is the manga right now at Trigun Maximum 8? How many GHG are still left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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