Gaming Rockstar's Manhunt BANNED in New Zealand

[Ozzy J.]

Rockstar games' new controversial game "Manhunt" has been banned in New Zealand, according to sources of one of our biggest newspapers.

What? Does anyone know what it's about and why the cesnor should want to keep it out of our country? My feelings are that it's just a video game and harmless entertainment, like GTA, which wasn't banned here.

According to The Press (very reliable source) you are htis guy who recieves orders from an earpieces to kill people, anybody, at random, socring more points for however gruesome the kill i s, one example given to The Press is suffocation, and you get a close up shot of you victim gasping for air, as soonas I read that, I though it way to horrible for me, I'll stick with GTA thanks, but who am I to censor what others wnat to see/play?

I am just wondering if there's anythign else that makes the game a worthy candidate for banning release in New Zealand.

[James]

[color=#707875]Well, Manhunt is really much more brutal than GTA. In terms of both violence, language and themes...it's definitely a different kind of game. It's on another level in terms of adult content.

I wouldn't be too comfortable with an underage kid playing the game, however, I think that there is a broader issue here.

In both Australia and New Zealand, the respective OFLC organizations simply don't see video games as being for adults. They seem to refuse to acknowledge that adults [i]do[/i] play games and [i]are[/i] a large part of the audience.

In Australia, there's no R rating for video games, as an example; I don't know about the case in New Zealand.

The lack of an R rating means that games such as GTA are watered down...and games like Manhunt are banned outright. Although, I don't know if Manhunt will be banned here or not. However, GTA was edited (though hardly at all), but still, it's a significant concern.

Basically, people should be allowed to buy these games -- provided that the games are rated appropriately. So I'm not saying that a 15 year old should be able to buy Manhunt. But an 18 year old? Definitely. At the very least, it should be similar to movie ratings. There [i]should[/i] be an 18+ category for games.

So that's my feeling on it. As for what you mentioned about Manhunt...you aren't meant to kill "random" people, as far as I know; you're actually killing rival gang members or something like that. So you're killing criminals basically. But still...that obviously isn't going to negate the fact that the game is still incredibly violent and brutal.[/color]

[Shinmaru]

Yeah, I think it's a bit ridiculous that New Zealand is going as far as to completely ban the game, but you can see where they're coming from.

However, that's not really going to solve anything, as anyone could easily import the game (provided they have a modified PS2, of course). A much easier solution would be to, as James said, make an 18+ rating for video games and actually enforce it. As long as parents and video game retailers are responsible enough to know what people are playing, there should be no problems. Of course, that's assuming a lot, but it works pretty well, despite what a lot of politicians like to say here in the U.S.

[Ozzy J.]

GTA 3 and vice City are rated R18 over here, and shinji's got both of them and I play them regularly.

Has it turned me into a psychotic serial killer? no, have I been given a newfound lust for blood? no.

Both GTA games were released here under R18, with GTA 3 being completely uncensored, and as far as i can tell, GTA VC having the hookers editited out.

[The Vampire: Ed]

I don't really understand why it needs to be banned. I mean, as James pointed out, adults do make up a large percentage of video game players nowadays. Especially since most of them grew up with games, it's only natural that more mature games be made for a more adult audience. Besides this is exactly why we have the rating system, this is why we have movies with R-ratings, and games with M-ratings. They're there to warn adults of their content, as well as basically let the stores know which games are not meant to be sold to a the younger audience. I guarantee they have worse movies out than this game, and they probably weren't banned. Besides if they don't want kids getting their clutches on these games, then either crack down on the retailers who allow them to be sold to minors, or make sure to get the point across to the parents that these games aren't for the youngsters. Don't just ban them. I mean if they still get them, then it's obviously the blame of the stores or the parent. Besides if the children were sat down and explained the difference of reality and fiction then we'd have less problems with children attempting what they see in both video games and movies.

I'm tired of the makers of these games being blamed when it's not their fault at all. I think the whole "the game made me do it" excuse should be taken about as seriously as "the dog told me to do it." For instance, this whole issue about the 12 and 16 year old boys who took two rifles from a locked room in their home, in Newport, Tennessee, and fired over twenty-five .22 caliber bullets off a bridge into traffic on Interstate 40. One women died, and another was left seriously injured. The boys claimed they did it because of the game Grand Theft Auto 3, and in typical form, the media latched onto the video game connection, conveniently ignoring small issues like parental responsibility and questions as to why 12 and 16 year old boys had access to both M-rated games (which are intended for ages 17 and up) and loaded firearms.

It's all just ridiculous. Anyway, I was hoping to get this game myself, and I don't think they have plans of banning it here in the States--however nothing is certain as the unreleased game Thrill Kill was banned before it was totally complete. People have said to have been able to get beta copies of the game via the Internet. I know Manhunt has to be more violent than that.

Anyway, as for the game's plot. The main character is James Earl Cash, and he is forced against his will to fulfill the sadistic fantasies of a man called the Director. The Director has put a bounty on your head, and the gangs of murderers will do anything to collect it. Basically it's kill, or be killed. Anyway, it's not as simple as just killing gang members. You have to sneak around, a Metal Gear styled stealth, and try to avoid conflicts with these madmen, well at least from the front. You must use stealth to sneak up on your prey, and kill them in different gruesome fashions. However, the AI is supposed to be very intelligent, and make the game a huge challenge. Also levels aren't all the same, in some you have to actually rescue hostages as well as other things. It's supposed to actually be a very good game, and it doesn't just use the overwhelming blood and gore to sell it. It's supposed to have really good controls, terrific gameplay, amazing audio, and some of the best AI around.

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Vampire: Ed [/i]
[B] Anyway, it's not as simple as just killing gang members. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]I didn't mean that the game was simple; I wasn't referring to mechanics.

I was talking about the main character's motivation. I'd basically forgotten all that I'd read about it though, because at least from the information I've heard, it doesn't interest me a great deal.

Obviously the game should have an R-rating...I wouldn't oppose that at all. I'd definitely prefer that than seeing it banned.

In terms of the game content itself...I do know that it puts a heavy focus on some really hardcore language and violence. And, let's be frank here; that is the selling point. Those elements are what will sell the game -- and, those are also the elements that will make younger gamers want to play it.

Still, that isn't something I blame the developer for. They are free to make whatever kind of game they like, provided that the game is appropriately rated and that retailers uphold those ratings.

Retailers who sell to underage customers without checking for ID are also part of the problem here.[/color]

[The Vampire: Ed]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875]I didn't mean that the game was simple; I wasn't referring to mechanics.

I was talking about the main character's motivation. I'd basically forgotten all that I'd read about it though, because at least from the information I've heard, it doesn't interest me a great deal.

Obviously the game should have an R-rating...I wouldn't oppose that at all. I'd definitely prefer that than seeing it banned.

In terms of the game content itself...I do know that it puts a heavy focus on some really hardcore language and violence. And, let's be frank here; that is the selling point. Those elements are what will sell the game -- and, those are also the elements that will make younger gamers want to play it.

Still, that isn't something I blame the developer for. They are free to make whatever kind of game they like, provided that the game is appropriately rated and that retailers uphold those ratings.

Retailers who sell to underage customers without checking for ID are also part of the problem here.[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh, yeah, I know what you meant. I didn't mean for that to sound like, well--whatever it sounded like to you. I was basically just explaining it's not just as repetitive as most games are in that particular area.

Also, you're right, the selling point is the lanuage and violence. But what I was refering to was that it's not what makes it a good game. From what I heard Rockstar put a great deal of effort into the gameplay to make it a really good game. Basically they worked their butts off on the gameplay just to justify the game's content.

Which is much better than having nothing but mindless violence, all though I'm willing to bet there is still some of that in there.

[anime_guy]

I know why.. I'm surprised I haven't heard anything about it being banne din GErmany (they ban a lot of games) or any otehr places in Europe... Well, that's one reason I love to live in the U.S. They can't ban games. I'm getting it ^_^ I don't see why they ban games. They're rated, the labe says what content is in the game, and peopel are warned by magazines stc. so they shouldn't ban games. I tihnk that sort of thing is just pretty stupid....

[Guest Teammayhem]

GTA:3 and GTA:VC were both delayed for release in New Zealand. Why? The developers had to remove a lot for the NZ release. Supposedly, the chainsaw (or some of its animations) were removed.

That sucks...

[Kent]

Im not much of a fan of banning anything. Sometimes it is needed, but others it is not.

The description for this one sounds as if it crossed the line, but at the same time, I am fully ok with it.

I believe in the true freedoms of the constitution and so, I believe these creator's deserve the same rights to free market and press as all others do. (so long as they do not infringe on others' rights.)

Anyway... so thats it. Im ok with it, but do not like this sort of "disturbed" violence in video games... I mean, mgs snake snappin' the neck is one thing, but close ups of a victims face in strangulation? I dont think so.

[Ozzy J.]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Teammayhem [/i]
[B]GTA:3 and GTA:VC were both delayed for release in New Zealand. Why? The developers had to remove a lot for the NZ release. Supposedly, the chainsaw (or some of its animations) were removed.

That sucks... [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually, the chiansaw is still in our versions of the game, only the hookers were taken out to my knowledge.

That is kind of stupid, because in GTA 3 they didn't bother to edit it before it's New Zealand release. That makes for inconsistencies, you can "do" a hooker in the 3rd game, but not in it's subsequnet release?

I think that game censorship is necessary, but if grown adults claim they were mimicking a game they bought, then what can you do? stamp an INSANE marker on their heads? shave their beards and give them a medical? I don't think so.

It's always the games fault, funny how it's exploited that way, games have to reach out to different dmeographics you know, it makes me mad that soemone can blame the game for their inexcusable, dumbass crimes and hte distributor gets punished, it's like if Rockstar make too many borderline games, they'll be bankrupt because every man and his insane mother would want to sue them.

[G/S/B Master]

OUt of Topic: GTA still has hookers in my game and I'm in the US. Strange...

Into Topic: I think Manhunt shouldn't even be considered as a game. It should've been taken out of production. Rockstar games has taken adult games to a new level. Manhunt is way to violent, nonetheless too gruesome to watch. The only pros about it, that it actually has a decent storyline lol. If adult actually play games, I think they need a hobby.

[Shinken]

I'm surprised that Manhunt didn't receive an Adults Only rating; it's over-the-top, and in my opinion pointless violence. Now, Grand Theft Auto, those games have a cinematic plot. But Manhunt, in my opinion, is no better than a B-Movie with a controller attached. And even if there is a plot, there isn't much of one. It's kinda like "Running Man", but instead you've got guys in hockey masks you strangle with wires (an actual game option). And the violence in GTA III isn't quite so serial-killer-esque. Yes, you can use chainsaws and screwdrivers (in Vice City), but it's not quite so graphic as to give you closeups (to my knowledge).

In my opinion, Manhunt seems to be a tasteless game, and I definitely won't play it. As far as being banned in New Zealand, I say "That's a good idea". I really would have to agree with G/S/B Master. It should be taken out of production, because, like I said, it's tasteless. (I don't think that adults should get a hobby if they play games, though. But that's off-topic, and I wouldn't want to be the one to get a thread closed.)

[James]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by G/S/B Master [/i]
[B]OUt of Topic: GTA still has hookers in my game and I'm in the US. Strange...

Into Topic: I think Manhunt shouldn't even be considered as a game. It should've been taken out of production. Rockstar games has taken adult games to a new level. Manhunt is way to violent, nonetheless too gruesome to watch. The only pros about it, that it actually has a decent storyline lol. If adult actually play games, I think they need a hobby. [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]Firstly, there were of course hookers in the US version of GTA. We're not talking about the United States, we are talking about Manhunt being banned in New Zealand. And in reference to GTA, the point was that the game was edited for both Australia and New Zealand.

To be more specific, the hookers were not actually taken out. But the ability to "pick up" a hooker was. The OFLC in both countries apparently determined that to be over the top. So, the notion that our games were severely edited or "kiddified" is really not correct; the picking up of hookers was the only aspect to be changed. I know you are not specifically referencing that yourself, but I wanted to clarify it for everyone else.

Secondly, I'm an adult. And I play games. Something in the region of 80% of game players in the United States are over 18. And a massive percentage of GBA owners (I think well above 60%) are 25 or over.

So the idea that games aren't a legitimate hobby annoys me. It's a very outdated view, especially when you consider the massive increases in complexity of games today, when compared with a couple of decades ago.

In terms of Manhunt itself, a lot of you seem to be condemning this game purely because of its violence.

I can understand that. And I do not know if I would personally want to buy this game. I think that GTA itself is pretty overrated in some respects and Manhunt seems to be little else but a deathmatch-esque setup, more or less. So that doesn't particularly interest me. And I don't know if I want to hear some guy in the game swearing at me and bashing gays and hurling racial insults. That's really not my idea of fun.

[i]However[/i], I am going to stick up for this game on two levels. Firstly, have any of us actually [i]played[/i] the game? No. Those who have indicate that it's actually quite a clever title in many ways -- the A.I. is finely developed and is quite complex and realistic. So the first point is that this game might have something to offer in terms of gameplay and technology.

Secondly, it's just a matter of principle. There are people who go out there and make first person shooters, where you go around killing students at Columbine. There's a shooter where you have to kill gay people. And there's an upcoming game where you have to escape the WTC on September 11.

In other words, there are still far worse games out there. The question is, would I actually want to ban any of these games?

I don't know. I don't think that any of us should be quick to agree with the banning of a software title.

On principle though, I tend to disagree with the idea of banning games. If the game is appropriately rated and if retailers are enforcing that rating...what's the problem? If you are an adult, you have the ability to exercise some choice in your life. You can choose to buy it, or you can choose not to. But do you then have the right to stop [i]others[/i] from buying it? I don't think so. I don't think that's at all fair.

[/color]

[AishKatsuya]

This isn't an issue of whether or not it's okay for adults to play video games. It is okay to have these games released [i]anywhere[/i] as long as they crack down on how games are sold, as far as letting laws slip by with ratings. They do that in my small town, and I'm sure it happens everywhere. If kids play these games from an early age, it may or may not grow the id inside of us, but whether it does or not is the responsibility of the parents. I don't care if it's a single mother or father, or there are too many kids. Parents have a duty to raise their children respectably and properly, and I know that duty is much too often violated, but [i]that[/i] is the real issue here.

[Guest Teammayhem]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i]
[B][color=#707875] And there's an upcoming game where you have to escape the WTC on September 11.

[/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

Going off topic for a second, there is a game already made of this. It's a mod (modification) for Unreal Tournament. The game consists of you escaping from the WTC. I don't know the address for it though.

On topic now...
This game is what some people want. If there is a demand, then the video game makers will [I]make[/I] it. Demand and supply. That's what it comes down to.

[DeadSeraphim]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Teammayhem [/i]
[B]Going off topic for a second, there is a game already made of this. It's a mod (modification) for Unreal Tournament. The game consists of you escaping from the WTC. I don't know the address for it though.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Umm... well this game Has been made that's right. But it was taken off the net/market as soon as or shortly after its release because it was seen in extreme bad taste. That's what I read anyway.

As for this game manuhunt, I probably wouldn't play it, but there is obviously a market for it if the game was made to begin with. A complete ban is rather extreme just for a game however, so I think it would be a better idea to just give it an R rating. Of course in Australia there is no R rating for games so doesn't look like we'll be seeing it...

[AishKatsuya]

Yes, you are right, Teammayhem. Supply and demand is the only thing that most majour companies care about when making products for consumers to purchase. If this is banned by countries, it's not that much of a big deal, because in the countries it's not banned it, it will be sold more than it would have before, as it gains more publicity and attention from an audience... not that it matters what [i]kind[/i] of audience it is. :p

[The Vampire: Ed]

I have finally gotten my hands on Manhunt, and I am very happy with it. Everything they said about the AI, and gameplay is very true. It's actually a very good game, and once you play it you find out very quickly that it's main focus is stealth. If you attempt to stand toe to toe with a gang member you may win, however they usually are a lot tougher than you which is why the stealth is needed. Not only does it immediately make it obvious that stealth is your best bet for survival, but they also show great amounts of the terrific AI in the game as well. If you are spotted, and manage to escape their sights into, oh say a bathroom, the computer will actually check each stall and look around the room pretty thoroughly until he gets tired of looking for you and is convinced you have escaped. Once he turns his back you have to take the opportunity and sneak up on them to perform a stealth kill (holding either Square, or X longer changes the type of kill that is performed). Enemies even get in on the stealth action as they will sometimes hide until you come strolling along, then they'll pop out and attempt to rip you apart.

As for the violence, well, there is a lot, no doubt about it. However, it all serves a purpose. It's not just there for the hell of it. The type of game it is, as well as it's plot calls for it's gruesome nature. Sure, they could have done without, but in my opinion it wouldn't have been anywhere as interesting or entertaining. You're a man thrown into a city filled with gangs paid to kill you after a staged lethal injection, you're being used by a man known simply as "The Director" to make his underground snuff films. He delights in watching you kill to survive as he films it all for his audience. He says it's a second chance at life, and if you survive he'll let you go, but the further you progress the more that seems to be a lie. The cursing, the violence, and well all of it's graphic nature help to make it all feel more convincing as well as keep you in suspense. Just imagine some gang member wielding a machete is spewing obscenities as you hide in the darkness only a few feet away, perhaps moments away from being caught, just waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike while having to remain as silent as possible so you will not be discovered. It's actually quite thrilling in its own way.

Cash, your character, obtains an ear piece at the beginning of the game in which the Director speaks to him through. He sometimes gives you advice, or directions to get you going and also eggs you on to murder the scum bag gang members who stalk you. All to fulfill his sick fantasy, and to make the greatest snuff film his audience drools for. Another interesting feature is that the game can utilize the PS2's USB headset. Once it is in, the Director will no longer be heard communicating with you on the screen, but in your own headset. I'm sure it helps to put you into the game more, and if that wasn't good enough the microphone can be used to call out or make what ever noise you like to distract or lure the hunters into your traps. It probably lends a nice helping hand to an all ready great gaming experience, also probably will make it more suspenseful. Just imagine you're only a few inches away from your prey, ready to kill, but just before you can you accidentally sneeze and the microphone picks it up giving you away. It might sound like it would be annoying, but it would make it much more life like since things such as that could happen at anytime in the real world, much like it should be able to in the game.

If you can't take gore, or strong language, then I doubt it's for you. But if you can stomach it, I'd say it's at least worth a rental to see how you feel about it first hand rather than decide only by small bits of information. I wouldn't say it's game of the year, but it's still great in my opinion.

As for the overall concept pertaining to it's violence, and gore, well, I've honestly seen worse in both movies, and some games. The game actually is more tamed than I expected it to be from what I kept hearing, but then again I might just be used to seeing this type of violence.

Manhunt, while very graphic in just about all aspect, is a thrilling game, at least in my opinion, and it's been a long time since I've actually felt that way about any game.

[anime_guy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by G/S/B Master [/i]
[B]OUt of Topic: GTA still has hookers in my game and I'm in the US. Strange...

Into Topic: I think Manhunt shouldn't even be considered as a game. It should've been taken out of production. Rockstar games has taken adult games to a new level. Manhunt is way to violent, nonetheless too gruesome to watch. The only pros about it, that it actually has a decent storyline lol. If adult actually play games, I think they need a hobby. [/B][/QUOTE]

Taken it out of production? That's a little too far. Some people like the insane amount of bloode, gore and violence. The game will probably sell millions, in this day and age, violence and blood sell better than "Huggy The Bunny Leaves For Preschool". I think they should put a little bit more warning on the box though, enstead of just a little square in the back saying "M" And, many adults do play games, more than most kids (surprisingly). If you look at any gaming comunity site, you'll find lots of adults there, more adults than kids, I can garenty (SP) that.

[TheShinje]

Might as well put my 50 cent in.


[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by G/S/B Master [/i]
[B]If adult(s) actually play games, I think they need a hobby. [/B][/QUOTE]

I thought games were a hobby :p

Manhunt, I've been following the story for a bit now and it seems that we will not be getting this game, despite the fact that there are worse movies out there.

The gore doesn't worry me, I like the games to have a certain gritty feel to it. It seems from what The Vampire: Ed is saying that it is. GTA is a game in which death is almost a comical, laughable act, isn't that worse?

I don't think game developers should be held to account for the murderers and such who claim to copy the game, anybody who thinks ,"oh, that was on a game, I'll do it in real life now!" needs to get admitted and diagnosed with severe incompetence syndrome.

Real life ----> computer game, see a difference? I do,

The bottom line is, we should be allowed to excercise discretion as adults, (and perhaps I shouldn't let you borrow the GTA's, Ozz) like we get to with movies, and the rating system should be more strictly enforced. I got an R16 game ad 13, so there is an obvious lack of enforcement, and perhaps this is where the OFCL is getting worried.


good god, the world is going to hell in a handbakset! :toothy:

[Guest cloricus]

Honestly I think the GTA series is the boarder that should be allowed under an R rating and it should be used as the model until social atmosphere changes.
Though I also think an R+ rating should be implemented immediately in Australia and by extension New Zealand for any type of game at all that is above R+ so that you are not censored in what you play. Even have dual versions of games like GTA(M15+) and GTA(R+) as it would be viable.
Censorship boards just haven't kept up with technology in this area which really isn't their fault as they are old and the have leadership like the current coms minister (he knows how to use a touch tone you know!) and they kind of remind me of a tame version of the Christian censorship comites of the late 1600's by ignoring the demographic and social situations and going with their opinions.

OR they keep banning computer games and start banning CRAP music that is making its way over from dodgy rap artist from America who can?t sing and just YELL about women?s things. (Sorry they?ve just played five songs like this in a row on the radio and I?m sick of them.)

Besides the bottom line is all this will do is promote piracy, that?s what happened with GTA3.

[James]

[color=#707875]I think the biggest problem is simply that Governments are not recognizing video games as viable entertainment, to be compared with music or movies.

When you consider that the video game industry generates more revenue than the movie industry today...you realize how absolutely backward this viewpoint is. It simply ignores reality.

In Australia, OFLC ratings are not decided by an OFCL board as such. Video game distributors have their own internal analysts who are usually registered members of the OFLC. And so, distributors themselves actually play a role in determining the appropriate rating for a particular game.

So, I personally wouldn't blame the actual analysts who suggest a rating. The problem lies with the rating system itself. If there is no allowance for an R18+ rating, then games that would logically fit into that rating can't achieve it. So even the distributors have no choice but to apply an "RC" rating (Refused Classification).[/color]

[Guest cloricus]

Oh I couldn't see how the government would come to that conclusion James, after all was it not Alston that stated that the internet was useless because 87% of "Koreans" used it for porn and gaming? While Dick, his replacement, was the main person to originally [strike]ban[/strike] rejected GTA3. Naa I just couldn't see [i]our[/i] government [b]not[/b] understanding [u]today's[/u] social views!
[/sarcasm] (I didn?t need that end tag did I...?)

[Burori]

[font=Times][COLOR=darkblue]

Man Hunt

Okay I finish this game all in one day with a friend of mine and I decided to post my opinions on it.

First of all this game is very much like hitman with only one difference, the enemy doesn't want to give you chances when thy say they'll kill you they mean it. One mess up will cost you the game and your life which I find very interesting in this game. The AI on this game is well done. The enemy listens in on your movements and when they find you hell breaks loose.

The graphics on this game are very good. The looks of both the main character and the enemies are well discribed and I find the face expressions are very detailed.

The gore in this game is off the charts I find. In all of the violent games I played I can't believe this game beats them all 10X over. There were three settings in the kills you can preform: Violent, messy, and Extreme. Spilling blood seemed to be the main obective in this game.

The story line itself was terrible though. I will not say what the story to it is because I will leave you all to find out for yourself.

The sound so so.

The weapons: Well *laughs* the weapons were anything and everything in this game. You can have weapons from sharp glass to a beautiful double Barrel Shotgun ^_^ That I found to be a interesting thing. The only fault in this was you had to find and kill people to get them. But in the end *chuckles* was worth it.

If anyone else played or heard about this game what were your thoughts on it?
[/color][/font]