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Miryoku

It's a weird thaught but...............

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So i was sitting around the house yesterday when i thaught how cool it would be to go out in the middle of no whare and build a town, it would be like my own little society, houses a store or two and maybe even some kind of religion, i could try to get enough people to make us self suficient a couple of farmers, grist mills, a textile mill. and we would be set. we could live life the way we wanted to and everything would be great. In todays world it's probably impossible to do that, but if you look back thats what pioneers were doing, i dunno maybe i'm crazy. but have any of you ever thaught about something like that?

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I actually have thought about this and i came up with an elaborate plan. The thing you really need to think about it what would you do differently from today's society?

If it was me, i'd try to destroy currency. I'd bring back to old free market of trade. The thing with that is is today's society you need corruency to even set up a civilization. But i don't like the idea of money, its stupid when you think about it, placing a number value on something. Iunno thats my opinion.

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[QUOTE=dd protector]I actually have thought about this and i came up with an elaborate plan. The thing you really need to think about it what would you do differently from today's society?

If it was me, i'd try to destroy currency. I'd bring back to old free market of trade. The thing with that is is today's society you need corruency to even set up a civilization. But i don't like the idea of money, its stupid when you think about it, placing a number value on something. Iunno thats my opinion.[/QUOTE]
yeah exactly, trade, no set value but a value that you and the seller think is fair, another is to cut out the complicated tax system, have everyone live and work for each other, to keep it going that way thare is no one set government and taxes are un needed.

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[color=#9933ff]I don't mean to rain on your parade (sorry) but from an economic stand point, currency is extremely important. Here's crappy example:

Say that I only sell dry erase markers and that's how I make my living. You, miryoku, only sell bowls and dd protector only sells pillows. And I want a bowl, so I trade with you. Ok, cool. But then I decide I want a pillow. So I try and trade with dd protector, but they don't want any dry erase markers - but a battery. So now I have to find someone who's willing to trade a dry erase marker for a battery, and then trade the battery for the pillow.

It's a lot of work! I think currency is important, but if I were to start your own community, there could be bartering [i]and[/i] currency. And maybe it would be acceptable to converse will the seller for a lower price - not fixed prices.

Actually, I was rather annoyed when M. Night Shymalan's [i]The villiage[/i] didn't have any currency. I thought that was kinda strange. :/

I would love to start a new community as an experiment to see what would happen if there weren't any societal influences (the original participants wouldn't teach them to their children). I've always thought of it on an island, though, not the prairie. ^^;;[/color]

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[QUOTE=MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]Say that I only sell dry erase markers and that's how I make my living. You, miryoku, only sell bowls and dd protector only sells pillows. And I want a bowl, so I trade with you. Ok, cool. But then I decide I want a pillow. So I try and trade with dd protector, but they don't want any dry erase markers - but a battery. So now I have to find someone who's willing to trade a dry erase marker for a battery, and then trade the battery for the pillow.

It's a lot of work![/color][/QUOTE][font=trebuchet ms]No kidding! I used to have computer game like this. It was one of those darn 'educational' things, called (wait for it!) [spoiler]Stocktopus[/spoiler]. And yes, it involved a large, purple octopus. Insanely frustrating game. I can't imagine having to do it in real life. (Actually, I can, I just dislike the thought.)

I mean, there's no reason why you can't just trade/barter between friends, but on a commercial level it's simply not feasible.[/font]

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[QUOTE=Lore][font=trebuchet ms]No kidding! I used to have computer game like this. It was one of those darn 'educational' things, called (wait for it!) [spoiler]Stocktopus[/spoiler]. And yes, it involved a large, purple octopus. Insanely frustrating game. I can't imagine having to do it in real life. (Actually, I can, I just dislike the thought.)

I mean, there's no reason why you can't just trade/barter between friends, but on a commercial level it's simply not feasible.[/font][/QUOTE]
i understand but were not talking about a country, were not even talking about a city, it's just a small colony of people maybe a dozen families at the most. Look through out the history of the western U.S. especialy in Utah, the early settlers had no money, they made or grew what they needed and what they could'nt produce them selves they joined up with the community and built co-ops where the town would produce them

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[b]My brother and I and our two best friends were obsessed with having our own Ewok village community for a while.[/b]

[b]We even went as far as beginning the construction of it out in the boondocks of the Hawai'ian Acres subdivision-- complete with rope swings to separate platforms and stuff-- though shoddy and kid-constructed.[/b]

[b]It never really became much of anything, though, since we were only like 8 and 9 years old and our carpentry skills were a bit lacking back then.[/b]

[b]These days, I would still build an Ewok villiage for myself and my brother if I had land, but I'm not so sure that I'd invite anyone to join us, since I'm pretty pissed off at people in general these days and am finding it difficult not to loathe everyone. [/b]

[b]Maybe I could deal with a community when I get over my little emotional crisis, but for now, I'd rather I had my own private village up in the canopy.[/b]

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First thing I thought of when I read this thread was "The Village". If you wanted a very simple life then, much like the movie, you would have to create the isolationist environment to achieve this. I know I would not be happy going to a place like that.

The internet, computers, modern housing and technology are too much apart of my life and there is just no way I could find someone in a small community to make me computer parts and internet connections. Let's not even mention the lack of outside cultures you would be missing out on. No more movies, manga, anime or foods.

I am also to dependant upon the medical community and I doubt a small village would have a Rheumatologist in town. If you were able to give it all up more power to you. I know for me it won't be happening.

Not to mention that most of the land around this planet is under the control of somebody. Finding a place you can live your "utopia" without paying taxes to the government would be a task in itself. Unless you plan of being like a serious version of the [URL="http://www.conchrepublic.com/welcome.htm"][u]"Conch Republic"[/u][/URL] and secede your nation. The mechanics of something like your own culture would take lots of money to do. I am not sure if it is possible.

Edit: Even if I were transported back to a time when, let's say the US was being settled. I don't think I would leave the city. Like I said, I like the comforts of establishment.

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I agree with Panda. I couldn't leave modern civilization either...well except maybe for the Ewok village idea.
But I've also thought this out. In order for an isolated utopia to work w/out curreny you would first off need everything people extremely needed and be in constant stock of it.
I don't know how many of you have read the book "The Giver" but they're utopia seems to work very efficeintly. So combine that with the village and they're you have it.
A place where you are given a job and that's your role and responsibility in the society (well maybe with a few helping hands). Where there is no money and you know that if you or someone else doesn't do their job a current level they're going to falter.
This is sort of using a different idea. You rely on others and they rely on you and if somebody fails everyone is going to fail so their is an extreme motivation to do good at what you do. That way let's say you're a docter and you're working on a farmers leg so he can continue working in the feilds so he can get you food. Without you he wouldn't be able to work and without him you wouldn't get food and so on.
And that's the end of my rant.

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[QUOTE=Box Hoy]
I don't know how many of you have read the book "The Giver" but they're utopia seems to work very efficeintly. So combine that with the village and they're you have it.
A place where you are given a job and that's your role and responsibility in the society (well maybe with a few helping hands). Where there is no money and you know that if you or someone else doesn't do their job a current level they're going to falter.
This is sort of using a different idea. You rely on others and they rely on you and if somebody fails everyone is going to fail so their is an extreme motivation to do good at what you do. That way let's say you're a docter and you're working on a farmers leg so he can continue working in the feilds so he can get you food. Without you he wouldn't be able to work and without him you wouldn't get food and so on.
And that's the end of my rant.[/QUOTE]

Thats excatally when i think what be a good idea. The giver that is. Every person has a strict role in society sort of like a evolved form of communism (thats is the giver with colour and sences...)
But you would really miss technology becuase those people would be remotely isolated and maybe never know what any of it is, or perhaps you could have a utopia with computers (its kinda hard to live without them now)

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[quote name='Miryoku']i understand but were not talking about a country, were not even talking about a city, it's just a small colony of people maybe a dozen families at the most. Look through out the history of the western U.S. especialy in Utah, the early settlers had no money, they made or grew what they needed and what they could'nt produce them selves they joined up with the community and built co-ops where the town would produce them[/quote][FONT=Trebuchet MS]I just don't think it's feasible. With very commited, talented people, perhaps. But think about the other aspects of pioneer life. Or even just farmers today--it's not exactly easy. A few dozen families, okay. But would a few dozen families be able to provide everything you need? How much [i]do[/i] you need? Think about it.

Being raised in the 1990's, would you really be able to give up so much? We're talking convenience here, yes, but it's [i]necessary[/i] convenience. In the not-too-distant past, perhaps, microwaves and frozen food was merely a convenience, and one could do without them. But do you have any idea how to feed yourself without the use of them?

Sure, I can make dinner for my family--but unless I'm very daring and have a [i]lot[/i] of extra time, I don't even look at a recipe book. I grab a box of hamburger helper from the pantry and a hunk of frozen meat from the freezer. Maybe I heat up some canned soup, or get some tortillas, vegetables, and cheese from the fridge and make quesadillas. The most old-fashioned things I can do involve potatoes--baked, mashed, hashbrowned. All you really need for those is some butter and salt. But anything else? I'd be clueless. I can't even make pizza without using pizza sauce from a jar.

Am I an anomaly here?

[b]Edit[/b]:

[quote name='Box Hoy']I don't know how many of you have read the book "The Giver" but they're utopia seems to work very efficeintly. So combine that with the village and they're you have it. [/quote]
Did you honestly just call the society represented in [u]The Giver[/u] a [i]utopia[/i]?

[b]Re-Edit[/b]: For those of you interested in this idea and a good book, check out [u]Running Out of TIme[/u] by Margaret Peterson Haddix. It's a "young adult" novel that involves a town that was removed from current culture and set in the 1840's (as, of all things, a tourist attraction.) The people in the book actually live and work as though it were a hundred-fifty-odd years ago. The adults know it's a sham, of course, but the children (who were born and raised there) have no idea.[/font]

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See i understand many of your guys' points but i would'nt mind giving everything up to live in a some what utopian society. Kindof like modern transendentalism. Yes computers, microwakes, tv, they are all big parts of our lives today but if you look at it the way i do those things are made to make life more simple but they only complicate matters.....if that makes any sense. The simple life is actualy not so simple it involves work and faith in your cause but if you can incorperate those 2 things into your life it would be far greater than any invention could make it.

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[quote name='Miryoku']See i understand many of your guys' points but i would'nt mind giving everything up to live in a some what utopian society. Kindof like modern transendentalism. Yes computers, microwakes, tv, they are all big parts of our lives today but if you look at it the way i do those things are made to make life more simple but they only complicate matters.....if that makes any sense. The simple life is actualy not so simple it involves work and faith in your cause but if you can incorperate those 2 things into your life it would be far greater than any invention could make it.[/quote]

The fact thats your willing to give up so much is aminable but not true. I could understnad how a few very deticated people could do this but could you as a person honestly give up everything. And i mean everything becuase you would have to to start a new society.

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well i don't realy have much, and if it could make my life change it would be fine, i've always wanted to live fairly unconventionaly, if you new me youd know i'm not realy a conformist, i have my own ideas and creativity and i'd like to build off it, and create a new life for me and others that think the way i do.

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[quote name='dd protector']The fact thats your willing to give up so much is aminable but not true. I could understnad how a few very deticated people could do this but could you as a person honestly give up everything. And i mean everything becuase you would have to to start a new society.[/quote][FONT=Trebuchet MS]I don't think it's even so much a matter of being willing to give things up, but actually being able to. See my earlier point: Even with all the willingness in the world, I wouldn't last a month without some level of prepackaged food.

Granted, we are talking about a situation where there is a level of trade going on. Someone else could make food, and I could....geez, I don't know, mend fences or something. Not that I really know how to do that, either. :p[/font]

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[QUOTE=Lore][font=Trebuchet MS]I don't think it's even so much a matter of being willing to give things up, but actually being able to. See my earlier point: Even with all the willingness in the world, I wouldn't last a month without some level of prepackaged food.

Granted, we are talking about a situation where there is a level of trade going on. Someone else could make food, and I could....geez, I don't know, mend fences or something. Not that I really know how to do that, either. :p[/font][/QUOTE]
lol ur funny. well i guess it takes a certain kindof person to do what i wanna do.I don't think most people could handle it. I'm certain i could, it's what i want to do, and it's not an impossibility, it could happen. It just makes so much more sense to produce most of what you need yourself and to live whare you want, away from every one.

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[quote name='Miryoku']lol ur funny. well i guess it takes a certain kindof person to do what i wanna do.I don't think most people could handle it. I'm certain i could, it's what i want to do, and it's not an impossibility, it could happen. It just makes so much more sense to produce most of what you need yourself and to live whare you want, away from every one.[/quote][FONT=Trebuchet MS]And I guess I respect that. I am saying though, that such a life isn't for me. I've no desire to be a hermit. :) And I don't think I, or most people, would be able to.

That you believe you could bear it in this day and age is admirable, though. [/font]

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[COLOR=blue]Isn't this essentially the Amish way of life? You know what's interesting about that? They usually toss their teens out into the real world and let them decide for themselves if they want to live in a technologically rich environment or return back to the Amish Lands. And believe it or not, most return. O_o

I hope that was on topic. ^^; If not, I'm pretty much with Lore on this one (but she's still an anomaly aka weirdo :p)[/COLOR]

EDIT: I bet most of us could [B]survive[/B] such a way of life if worse comes to worse, but prefer it? No, nor would we enjoy it all that much.

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[QUOTE=Panda]First thing I thought of when I read this thread was "The Village". If you wanted a very simple life then, much like the movie, you would have to create the isolationist environment to achieve this. I know I would not be happy going to a place like that.

The internet, computers, modern housing and technology are too much apart of my life and there is just no way I could find someone in a small community to make me computer parts and internet connections. Let's not even mention the lack of outside cultures you would be missing out on. No more movies, manga, anime or foods.

I am also to dependant upon the medical community and I doubt a small village would have a Rheumatologist in town. If you were able to give it all up more power to you. I know for me it won't be happening.

Not to mention that most of the land around this planet is under the control of somebody. Finding a place you can live your "utopia" without paying taxes to the government would be a task in itself. Unless you plan of being like a serious version of the [URL="http://www.conchrepublic.com/welcome.htm"][u]"Conch Republic"[/u][/URL] and secede your nation. The mechanics of something like your own culture would take lots of money to do. I am not sure if it is possible.

Edit: Even if I were transported back to a time when, let's say the US was being settled. I don't think I would leave the city. Like I said, I like the comforts of establishment.[/QUOTE]

I kinda agree with Panda. I'm too dependent on junk food to ever give that up and I doubt a Utopia would have the abundant supplies that I need to 'survive'. Plus I like to be around a bunch of people, and that would just be no fun if it mean't having to see the same peoples faces every single day. How boring would that be? I also like the currency and trade system going on if you had your own village, being able to trade would be a nice change.

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[QUOTE=AzureWolf][COLOR=blue]Isn't this essentially the Amish way of life? You know what's interesting about that? They usually toss their teens out into the real world and let them decide for themselves if they want to live in a technologically rich environment or return back to the Amish Lands. And believe it or not, most return. O_o
[/QUOTE]
Yes its true. Most return because its a better life by there standerds things are so much simplier. We couldn't live without technology beause we were raisied on it and have become dependant upon it. I honestly thing humans would be better as people without alot of the little shortcuts we use today.

I respect Amish people and what there trying to do. I think is a great society that does work but it seems strange to us simply beause we don't like change. I personally would enjoy that kind of simpelr life. thats just me though...

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[SIZE=1]I'm sure you'd enjoy the simpler life when you're wrapped in blankets because there's no heat. And there's a foot and a half of snow falling outside.

Did I mention you had to go outside to use the bathroom, and you have no electricity?

Technology is a good thing. Yes, we could and should do without alot of shortcuts in life, but in the grand scheme of things, technology makes living easier, more enjoyable, more comfortable. [/SIZE]

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[QUOTE=Retribution][size=1]I'm sure you'd enjoy the simpler life when you're wrapped in blankets because there's no heat. And there's a foot and a half of snow falling outside.

Did I mention you had to go outside to use the bathroom, and you have no electricity?
[/size][/QUOTE]
[b]Hmmm... if you live in HI, you don't really need heat. And I lived for years without electricity and without running water (we had a rain catchment system).[/b]

[b]Those were the happiest and most tranquil years of my life. Even if I did have to go to the bathroom outside.[/b]

[b]Imagine this-- a bathtub out in the middle of the tropical forest--banana trees and guava trees surrounding you--the stars overhead and a warm Hawai'ian rain falling gently on you as you bath in the moonlit tropical wlderness. Nothing can beat that... It's a memory I'll cherish forever-- it's one of the memories I lose myself in when I'm not coping with my present circumstances.[/b]

[b]Screw technlogy-- I'd rather live in my tropical Ewok wilderness...[/b]

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[quote name='elfpirate][b']Screw technlogy-- I'd rather live in my tropical Ewok wilderness...[/b][/quote][COLOR=blue]Then what exactly is stopping you? Technology? Other people, maybe? If it really was all that great, then you wouldn't be content enough with how things are now, eh? You'd be struggling to get back to that paradise of yours.[/COLOR]

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the two arguments i'm sensing here are 'technology = good, nature = bad' and 'give it all up to start a new community'.

my solution is to have the best of both worlds! bild a huge-*** space colony and blast off into space!

you could have a pioneering, utopian society then, but still have technology

everyone wins!

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