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Why all our theories of the Universe are probably wrong. [no jacka**es please]


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[color=blue]Poeple of Otaku Boards, and others. I bring you what is perhaps my final revelation of the world. We are stupid. Stupid for thinking that anything we do or say can 'moraly' be controlled or limited. Let's talk about "morality". It's completely false. An invention of our increasingly self-rightious and over-imaginative ancestors. If you can't understand the last few sentences, then do not, I repeat, do NOT post. Humans were created by atoms my friends. Atoms that formed into cells, in turn, creating us. What in the Universe drives us to believe that anything such as "morality" exists in any form of atom, human, animal, or inanimate? This is all very complex, and I simply con not put it into words. I have found myself believing in the fact that no atom has the authority to (no, not [U]right[/U], authority) in any way have some kind of control over another. But in a strange way, this also means that any atom can do whatever it damn well pleases. Pardon my French. But, in any case, I probably won't convince any of you that any of this is indeed true. That we, fallible humans, have created these "laws" out of our imagination, and nothing more.

However, please tell me what [I]your[/I] theory is. Then I can tell you why it's wrong. You can also refer to my sig. But that would ruin a perfectly good debate.

If you are not understanding me now, then don't try to. You are an ignorant fool. And, I would strongly suggest that no-one post on this thread that is just going to criticise my theory. If you do, I'll report you to a mod. Any questions?[/color]

~Pheonix of the Fire~
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by FirePheonix727 [/i]
[B][color=blue]Poeple of Otaku Boards, and others. I bring you what is perhaps my final revelation of the world. We are stupid. [/color][/B][/QUOTE]

Glad someone else noticed it. The truth is, you have no idea how stupid we are. Everyone at some point has a realisation about the stupidity of the human race (I hope) but what few people get to is that the thought that we are stupid is a product of that very stupidity- and we're too stupid to even realise it.

We think we're smart when we say we're stupid, but in fact we're so stupid that even the thought "we are stupid" has an intense stupidness about it.

We're so stupid that we think we can observe a world and thus know where it came from, and it's deepest secrets. We're so stupid that we realise that what we see and touch is a product of what our brain perceives, and could very well not be real. And yet many of us dismiss God because we can't sense him with these very things we've already proven to be flawed.

The universe didn't necessarily have to turn out like this- it could have turned out like anything. And yet we somehow believe that we can learn all there is to know just by examining the world around us. Even if we learn all there is to learn in this universe, we'll still be clueless to anything beyond it.

"We are stupid" indeed ;). It's one of the most profound truths there is.

However it leads me to a seperate conclusion to that which you came to.

We were not create by atoms, because atoms can not create. Atoms can bind into molecules, they can move about. They can gain energy, they can lose energy. But they can not become any more than the sum of the individual atoms of their own accord- and yet when you look at DNA you see a code. A code which can be read. The chemical compostion of this code means nothing, just as the information written in ink comes not from the ink itself, but from an outside source.

Every level of molecular grouping in a living organism has a complexity and function which cannot simply be achieved by the sum of the individual parts, but as the organism working as a whole.

Everything points to some kind of outside source shaping us. Nothing can be achieved unless there is some outside source which knows everything.

There are two options- either there is nothing which knows everything and which created us, and thus our whole existence is in vain, or there is something which knows all and created us and thus there is hope.

My faith is in God.

I am nothing but a weak, stupid little fool. But I know someone far greater who lends me his wisdom. I am nothing, therefore I rely on him, and he is everything, and he works through me. I still have nothing, I still acheive nothing, but God's work is done.

You tell me that we are created from atoms and cells- I tell you that we are created by a God with a plan.

Criticise away. Then I 'll have something concrete to base my points on.
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I have a question; why would "morality" be involved in the discovery of cosmic truths, when, by definition, any true defining nature that can cover the entire Universe would be so vast that human beings and any of our concepts, correct or no, wouldn't matter at all?

I'm also afraid that telling us that we "created laws of our own imaginations" isn't a big revelation. Laws are a social creation, yet you speak philosophically. The two don't mix, unless you speak of physical laws. However, having already brought morality into the concept, (incorrectly, IMO), I assue you refer to social laws.

Also, informinng us that human beings are stupid is nothing new at all.

However, I really cannot subscribe to the sheer arrogance uyou have in claiming that you are right and everyone else is wrong redgarding the cosmic truths, when, the fact of the matter is, you are wrong as well.

All human beings are inapable of understanding such great, sweeping concepts that cover the entire universe, which is infinite. Humans can't even rationally handle the concept of infinity.

My philosophy on the "theories of the universe" is very similar to a philosophy Sherlock Homes once had: he never read a bit of work regarding discoveries of space and the heavenly bodies, much to the astonishment of Dr. Wattson.

When asked why, Holmes replied that his work wasn't affected at all by such knowledge, so there was no point in wasting time and memory learning about them.

If I understand the truth of the universe, what does that get me? Nirvana? I'm already happy. The truth of the universe won't fix my flat tire, or make me laugh like my friends can.

I'd rather enjoy the wonders of the universe than waste time searching for a philosophical "Meaning" that won't get me anything but wasted time.

I can't be wrong because I don't have an answer. I just don't care.

What I have learned from your rhetoric-filled piece is that you are very full of yourself, and the arrogance you displayed in your last paragraph has destroyed the chance of any decent debate you might have wanted to foster. If one truely wants a debate, one doesn't get it by shooting down all opposing points of view. And they certainly don't get it by resorting to name calling.

"Ignorant fool"? Takes one to know one.
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I don't know about the others, but I'm feeling a holier-than-thou vibe coming from you. You can that morality has no form as an animal, human, atom or inanimate. If that was so, it would be the same case for emotion, conscience (I might have mispelled that), and some other things that I can't think of right now I'm sure.

I do [i]not[/i] wish to start a religious debate, but if our myths are all false, then where did we come from? The Big Bang? I'm not familiar with the theory, but I highly doubt it. Another thing that puzzles me is, if there is a God, and his mother Mary (pardon me if I'm wrong. I'm a Catholic, but I've never even been to church), where did they come from and how did they get the power to create our universe? Don't get my wrong, I still believe in Christianity, but I've just wondered.

You speak continuously about Atoms being our center.

[quote]Humans were created by atoms my friends.[/quote]

But where did these atoms come from? Once again, I refer to my doubts of the Big Bang Theory. Stories and reproductions of The Holy Bible, the muslim "bible" (truly sorry for forgetting the name), and and other religious scriptures have been passed down through generations and that's all we have to believe in, unless of course, you believe in Evolution.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kinetic [/i]
[B]the muslim "bible" (truly sorry for forgetting the name)[/B][/QUOTE]

The Quran, or Koran ;)

Incidentally "The Muslim Bible" isn't actually that inaccurate.

Because the word "Bible" means "Book"

Hence "The Book".

"The Muslim Book". It may not be as accurate as knowing the name, but it's still accurate in that the Quran is the book which Muslims go by.

(sorry.. a bit off topic there..)

[quote][B]Another thing that puzzles me is, if there is a God, and his mother Mary (pardon me if I'm wrong. I'm a Catholic, but I've never even been to church), where did they come from and how did they get the power to create our universe? Don't get my wrong, I still believe in Christianity, but I've just wondered. [/B][/quote]

Mary was the mother of Jesus, God's son, or God's form on Earth 2,000 years ago. But God himself existed long before Mary. In fact God created her, as she was a human. And she gave birth to Jesus, who was God's son, and was also God. Which is where it gets confusing.

As for the origin of God- God in his fullness is beyond our understanding. I don't even want to think about how/if he originated.
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Hhhmmm. I am afraid I don't really see anything... much in here.

Lets go over your points...

Humans are stupid: Absolutely. We are often ignorant and foolish and greedy and many things. Not always, but mostly.

Morality is false: No it isn't. Morality is something different to everyone, morals are a persons own code of conduct, the way they do things, and the respect they have for others. Morality is real. Just changing between every person. Thats all.

Morality doesn't exist in atoms: Correct. All morality is, is an intangible feeling, something individual. It isn't palpable, but neither is love. Are you denying love? Can atoms love? It is an abstract feeling. So what.. it exists, but not physically.

By physical laws, atoms can have a measure of control over one another. Atoms can't have authority though.. thats stupid. Physical laws. Besides, only physical laws stop us from flying apart. Nothing to do with the atoms themselves. They don't have control over each other, they are manipulated by different atoms, with different properties.

Of course what you're saying is true. Us 'fallible' humans, society as a whole, has constructed those morals. So what, it's nothing new at all. I knew this.

Really... I don't quite understand what this is about... you have stated stuff that we already know, as some revolutionary theorem. Wow. Amazing.

How can an atom do whatever it pleases? It is... inanimate. Kind of. It can make no choice, only react.

Are you one of those Neo-Anarchist fellows?
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[color=blue]Let me start by refering to Baron Semedi's post. "How can an atom do whatever it pleases? It is.. inanimate." It's a metaphor. An atom is supposed to stand for anything wich is composed of atoms, wich is pretty much (not everything out there I'm sure) everything exept what makes up the atom itself.

Dan L, I find your second post completely off topic.

Kinetic, you bring up a [I]very[/I] good point. Let's start with... your questions about how exactly did God get there, and is there really a God at all? Well, that's my interpretation of your questions. First, we have absolutely no idea where the Universe came from. For all we know, the Universe doesn't exist, and we're all part of some big experiement to see how we react to being on a strange hunk of rock floating in nothingness. Or, what if there is a God? I would imagine that if there is a God, how he/she/other got there is beyond our current level of comprehension. And I think that your comment on evolution is a bit fuzzy. What? You don't believe that humans evolved? Of course we did. From primates. But that's not what this is about. Or are you talking about the evolution of the Universe? Well, I've got an interesting point that I'll explain later.

Deathbug, I think I should say that I rather miss-named this thread. It's more about [I]our[/I] truths, and why we are so misguided. And socail issues and philosophy certainly mix. They are two bases of our current, industialized, high-and-mighty culture. I'm rather bad at interpreting socail marks and events myself, so I won't go into detail. I am certainly aware that saying we are stupid is nothing new. But I'm putting in kind of a new way here. I called us stupid for believing all the moral trash that our society hurls at us. Not that we are indeed, intellectual failures. Of course I'm arrogant and wrong. That's my point. The whole fu**ing world is. Your comments on why cosmic truths don't really matter stand out to me. You're right. They don't. However, we are lead, by ourselves, to believe that they are. It's natural human curiosity, even I can't deny our nature. "I don't care" has been an increasingly common statement in my day-to-day life. And I hope you realize, that if you don't care, you shouldn't post. Though I thank you for bringing up valid point of view. And yes, I am a rather large fool.

Dan L, I find your insistence on the word stupid to be a bit repetitive. Then again, we all are at times. A tad confusing though. I think I get the idea. We are very stupid... in all the ways you said. How can you truly believe that there is some almighty God that controls everything? Well, maybe there is. But, maybe there isn't. My mother has raised my a Lutheran. However, I have recently found myself seriously doubting our religous context. Look at history. Our ancient ancestors are rather imaginative, don't you think? My point is, just because some ancient wrote it down, doesn't mean it's all the truth. Not to be sacreligous.

Wrist-cutter, thank you. I'm lad some one think I'm right... or at least that I stand a chance... though you didn't provide any debate. Oh well.

Now, what can you guys say about that? Give me a challenge.[/color]
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by FirePheonix727 [/i]
[B][color=blue]I probably won't convince any of you that any of this is indeed true....however...tell me what your theory is. Then I can tell you why it's wrong.

...I would strongly suggest that no-one post on this thread that is just going to criticise my theory. If you do, I'll report you to a mod. Any questions?

[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1]Arrogance, what?

OtakuBoards encourages discussion. And while I'm sure debates on the nature of the universe might prove interesting, this is not the thread in which they will do so.

You are insisting that people offer their views on a subject, forbidding them from disagreeing with your own views, and promising to criticize theirs. This is not an example of a "good" thread.

...If anyone is particularly interested in learning more about FirePhoenix's enlightened state of being, feel free to PM him. [/SIZE]
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