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What gaming console is the best for you, but just as a gaming console, don't use the "it has DVD player" and the "it can play music", try to limit to as a gaming console just for the games, graphics and publishers please.

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If you're going to start a thread, at least be courteous enough to provide some input of your own. I don't think it's very fair to start up a thread and expect everyone else to provide the conversation.

Anyway, of today's major consoles, I own both of Nintendo's: The GameCube and Game Boy Advance. Of these two, I have far more games for my GameCube and my GameCube gets far more playtime. Even if I want to play Game Boy Advance games, I usually just play those on my Game Boy Player (I don't get out too much, obviously lol).

The biggest reason why I prefer GameCube over the other two consoles (don't get the idea that I haven't played them - I have friends with XBoxes and PS2s) is Nintendo. Simply put, Nintendo makes the best games out there, which is more than enough for me. I don't have the opportunity to buy [i]nearly[/i] as many games as I used to (though, I own quite a few GameCube games), so the slight lack of third-party support for the GameCube doesn't really bother me too much. Nintendo makes up for that with the sheer amount of high-quality games they have made and will continue to make.

I'm certain that the online issue will be brought up by someone, eventually, but online has never been that important to me, probably because I wouldn't really use it too often. I'm all for multiplayer, but I prefer my multiplayer on a more personal level...it's just more fun that way. The novelty of playing people around the world would wear off, eventually, except if you wanted to play the best gamers from around the world (personally, I wouldn't, because I'd get stomped into the ground lol).

If I had to choose a second-place console, I'd go with XBox because there are more games that I'd be willing to buy the XBox for than I see on the PS2 (though, there are a few games that I've wanted to try on the PS2, heh).

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I love my PS2. It has just as good of graphics as anything else that I've seen, and alot of great games. Especially great because it's backwards compatible, meaning I can play FF8 on a newer console as well as FF10. As is probably obvious, I like many of the games for PS2, because they have Final Fantasy and I love Final Fantasy. Nuff said. It can play DVD's and music, too! I find a console made by Microsoft sacriligeous, and Gamecube doesn't have many games that I like. The ones I have are about the only ones i want. I agree with Shinmaru that online isn't important, for me because I'm not allowed to get it. :bawl:

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[font=Georgia][color=blue]It's never about the console - it's about the games. As both Shinmaru and Lord Ramos indirectly pointed out, the games are what make you pick a console. If we were to go solely by console, with no games, no company making games, the XBox would win because of its specs.[/color][/font]

[font=Georgia][color=#0000ff]That being said, I'm an action gamer, meaning that PS2 and XBox are my current "best" consoles because of Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. Let's not forget about the myriad of fighting games for the PS2.[/color][/font]

[font=Georgia][color=#0000ff]It just goes without saying that it's what [i]games[/i] the console provides, and not the power.[/color][/font]

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[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I own all three major consoles, and the Game Boy Advance. Out of all four, I've had more playing time with my PlayStation 2 than with any other system. Couple that fact with upcoming games, the most ergonomic controller, and you've got my favorite system.

When Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty came out, it was only available for the PS2, and it turned out to be my second favorite game of all time. It simply was the sequel to the best game I've played in my 16 years of gaming, and it was only playable on my PS2. One of the system's lunch titles, SSX, turned out to be one of the best games ever made, and a lot better than any of the launch titles from the GAMECUBE and XBOX. Some may argue that Super Smash Bros. Melee and Halo: Combat Evolved were better, but I believe SSBM is nothing more than your average button-smasher without the Nintendo characters and likeness smashed on top, which long replay value relies only on multiplayer gaming; and Halo is nothing but a solid combat FPS that's been taken way out of proportion by the majority.

Then the PS2 gave me Devil May Cry, Onimusha, Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City, Zone of The Enders: the Second Runner and the perfect Final Fantasy X, the latter being my favorite RPG. Surely, some of these titles later came on other consoles, but the PS2 was the system that brought them to me. People don't steal any credit for the SNES now that Super Mario World and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past are now available for the GBA. Some of the aforementioned games were made for the SONY console, and later ported to the rest. The great variety of exclusive RPGs and fighters only helped in my PS2 being overly used.

The upcoming release of Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater alone is enough to confidently put my PS2 above all other systems, yet for those unsure there's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4, Hyper Street Fighter II: Anniversary Edition, Onimusha 3, Final Fantasy XII and Suikoden VI to prove the system has franchises strong enough for its lifetime.

"But Cyke, what's wrong with the other systems?" Well, nothing, really... but it's a matter of what they offer and what they don't. The XBOX was painfully lacking a good ten games to warrant a purchase during its early beginnings, while the GC and PS2 were offering better titles, with only Shenmue II being of my interest. However, the console slowly but surely "outranked" the GAMECUBE, in my book, when Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic came out. I dislike Star Wars, and find the old movie franchise to be cheesy, and the new one to be in the same league as "Charlie's Angels" in terms of film quality (Horrendous, unbearable, and scarring), so the achievement this game made for me to not only accept this universe, but also like it and get addicted to it is immeasurable. The open-ended nature of this RPG is flawless, and does justice to the license it uses. In the words of many a Star Wars geek, "It's the best thing to happen to Star Wars since [I]The Empire Strikes Back[/I]." Games like Panzer Dragoon Orta, Otogi, MechAssault, Ninja Gaiden and the mostly better versions of multiplatform games (Prince of Persia: The Sands of time, WSB2K3, Beyond Good & Evil) helped ensure the system's second place in my video gaming heart... at least until March 9, 2004.

I didn't get the Nintendo GAMECUBE until Super Mario Sunshine came out. I played my bro's system, and found no reason to get it. All its exclusive games were average, and some downright boring. After getting and playing Sunshine religiously, I was disappointed. I could at least count on Nintendo to get Mario right, but I felt the title had boring, repetitive level design, repetitive, and unintuitive, uninteresting, tedious boss fights (except Bowser, I admit). It lacked most of what made Super Mario 64 such a classic, although it did include its problematic camera. Super Mario Sunshine was not only a disappointment, but it was a sign of things to come, and a notice of something that was already an issue with the GAMECUBE. With the exception of the incredibly revolutionary, almost-perfect Metroid Prime, nearly all the "quality" exclusive titles were simply upgrade versions of their N64 counterparts, and even some were upgraded versions of another franchise (Star Fox Adventures plays like a bad Zelda). The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Super Smash Bros. Melee, 1080 Avalanche, Mario Kart: Double Dash, F-Zero GX, Resident Evil games, and Wave Race: Blue Storm were some of the GCN titles that shared way too many similarities to the previous game in their respective franchises. Yes, [i]some[/i] of these games were still great, but why play something that feels I've played before where I could enjoy Devil May Cry, Z.O.E. or GTA, completely original games with their own taste, or an original take of an existing genre? This is not to say GCN was deprived of any original, great exclusive games (Viewtiful Joe, Eternal Darkness), they just weren't that many. Still, before KOTOR, the GCN was enjoying a nice second in my view, and it got it back after the release of Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes, a game that, while it may be yet another game lacking in true originality for the system, was the remake of the best game ever made. Despite a few flaws and things missing, the game grabs you like the first one, and for any first-timer, they'll enjoy it was much as we did back in '98. The fact that we don't have F-Zero GX or Mario Kart online is a big minus. Whether Nintendo is choosing not to risk online gaming or not doesn't matter to me. I don't work for Nintendo, and I, as a consumer, only care about what companies give me. SONY and Microsoft give me online play, and Nintendo doesn't. That's all there is to it.

As for the GBA, I only limit myself to playing the Game Boy Player (I rarely play games anymore when I'm out, though I still own a GBA and a GBA SP), and I don't feel like playing tired remakes of games that I only thought were extremely enjoyable back then. With all the SNES ports, it's a good system to revisit the old days (despite the lack of four-face buttons), but in my view the new generation kicks the previous eras in the nads. It still has some great original and fun titles like Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and Boktai, but not enough of them to give the system more playtime.[/color][/font]

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Guest ScirosDarkblade
I have a Gamecube, Xbox, and a GBA sp (3, actually). My favorite used to be the Gamecube (and overall still is, thanks to Zelda, Smash Bros. Melee, and Mario Kart DD). I hated PS2 and didn't much care for Xbox for a couple of years. But this year things are changing. Gamecube's upcoming game lineup is extremely limited at this point, and Xbox is the one with all the good stuff. So I think for the next year or so, Xbox will be my favorite.

Xbox lineup I care about: Fable, Halo 2, Doom 3, Half Life 2, Jade Empire, Song of the Bard, Sudeki, Everything or Nothing (best on Xbox), DOA Ultimate, [hopefully] Rare stuff

GCN lineup I care about: upcoming Zelda (in a while), Metroid Prime 2 (in a while).

And whoever ends up having a better Starcraft Ghost.

I still don't care for much of anything on PS2.

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My favorite would be gamecube, 'cause I can play all the old sonic games without going out and buying an old sega now. I don't really get into video games, but I love the old sonic games, so therefore, gamecube is my new best friend.

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Guest Spike88
[FONT=Impact]I love the PS2. It just seems to me that they are easier to deal with and the games are a lot cheaper than the other systems. The games have good graphics adn good quality play. I would just like to say that they have some of the better RPG games than most of the other sytems. They also, have a wide variety of games for all people of all ages. It just seems to me if your looking for a good system with cheap games that are just as good as games for the other systems that most people would go for the PS2.[/FONT] :) :) :)

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I don't know that I have a favorite. I own all three of the current ones out there, plus a GBA SP. They don't really get equal playtime, but I don't think one is the most preferred.

I mostly play my GameCube because that seems to be what I get the most games for. Most of my four player games are on that system as well, so when people are over or my brothers want to play, that's what we use. Between Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, F-Zero GX, Bomberman Generations and a few others, there's plenty to do on that front. I also play these games alone, plus Viewtiful Joe and Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life, most recently.

I own more RPGs on the PS2, mostly because it just has more of them. In terms of that genre, it doesn't even really have much competition on the current platforms... although the NES, SNES and PSX still have more better RPGs than the PS2 does. Other than that I own a few platform games and music games, plus random other stuff. I recently had to get a new PS2 and it came with the Network Adapter. Everything I've played online for it so far has been pretty poorly set up, but still fun. It's a nice bonus, especially for free.

In terms of the controller, I don't know if I'd call it "more ergonomic". Ergonomics implies comfort level to me, not compatiblity. Sure, you can use the PS2 controller more easily with most games because of its button layout (and since most ports start out on the PS2, of course they'll use this controller best). In terms of comfort and likability, I prefer the GCN controller. The d-pad is small, but I still honestly prefer it to the weird seperated one on the PS2 controller. Plus I still cannot stand how loose the PS2 sticks are. The GCN obviously has its tiny d-pad, z button and nubby c-stick, but they just don't bother me as much. Obviously this is just subjective, so I can't really even argue it. It's just my preference.

I only own a couple of games for Xbox. Very little on it really grabs my attention for whatever. I owned Halo, but sold it when I got tired of its repetitive qualities. I actually bought the system for JSRF, when that game first came out. It really isn't as good as the original on Dreamcast, but I still play it from time to time. I also own KotOR, which I enjoyed playing despite its flaws. It certainly has good character development at the least... but since I play PC RPGs too (which it is most comparable to), nothing in it blew me away.

I probably play my SP the most, mostly because I'm on the go a lot. I don't think someone who doesn't have a chance to play their GBA outside of their home regularly really gets the same enjoyment out of it as someone who does. I always see someone mention that it has nothing but ports on it... and while there are many, there are still plenty of new games that are worth getting. Mario Kart, Harvest Moon, Iridion II, Metroid Fusion, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Mario & Luigi, Castlevania, Car Battler Joe, Mr. Driller, etc. There's plenty more that aren't even sequels that could be easily named as well. It just depends on how far you look, I guess.

I don't really know what is the best gaming console for me. Usually it's what ever one I have a new game for lol. Currently that would be GameCube, but it'll change when I get a new PS2 or Xbox game.

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[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']In terms of the controller, I don't know if I'd call it "more ergonomic". Ergonomics implies comfort level to me, not compatiblity. Sure, you can use the PS2 controller more easily with most games because of its button layout (and since most ports start out on the PS2, of course they'll use this controller best). In terms of comfort and likability, I prefer the GCN controller. The d-pad is small, but I still honestly prefer it to the weird seperated one on the PS2 controller. Plus I still cannot stand how loose the PS2 sticks are. The GCN obviously has its tiny d-pad, z button and nubby c-stick, but they just don't bother me as much. Obviously this is just subjective, so I can't really even argue it. It's just my preference.[/quote]

Forgot to mention this in my post, heh. I also prefer the GameCube controller to the other controllers (though, the XBox Type S controller is good, too). The PS2 controller is decently sized, but I've never really felt comfortable using it on some games. For the most part, the GameCube controller is far more comfortable for me than the PS2 controller.

I will say that I prefer the buttons on the PS2 controller (that is, the four main buttons), but everything else goes GameCube's way for me. The control pad has never been a big issue with me, since I rarely use it. The control stick works for me just fine. But eh...like Tony said, all that is just subjective stuff lol. Obviously, I'll prefer the GameCube controller for the same reasons that someone else prefers a different controller.

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[quote name='Cyke][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]When Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty came out, it was only available for the PS2, and it turned out to be my second favorite game of all time. It simply was the sequel to the best game I've played in my 16 years of gaming, [b]and it was only playable on my PS2[/b]. [b]One of the system's lunch titles, SSX, turned out to be one of the best games ever made, and a lot better than any of the launch titles from the GAMECUBE and XBOX.[/b] Some may argue that Super Smash Bros. Melee and Halo: Combat Evolved were better, but [b]I believe SSBM is nothing more than your average button-smasher without the Nintendo characters and likeness smashed on top[/b], which long replay value relies only on multiplayer gaming; and [b']Halo is nothing but a solid combat FPS that's been taken way out of proportion by the majority.[/b][/quote][/font][/color]
[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][/font][/color]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]Cyke, I've bolded what you should take a look at, lol. My inclination is to suggest you're hiding a Sony Fanboy in there.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]For example, "only playable on my PS2." Why not just say "the PS2"?[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black][/color][/size][/font]
[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][font=Arial][size=2][color=black]And I hardly think it's fair to praise SSX, a snowboarding game, over Smash Melee, a fighting game, or Halo, a FPS. Each of these games is in a totally different genre, with totally different focuses and design objectives. Thusly, you cannot outright disregard Smash Bros Melee or Halo, simply because you love SSX. It is really like comparing apples to tuna. I can understand comparing apples to oranges, because at least they're both fruit. Apples and oranges is like Street Fighter and Smash Bros Melee. But you absolutely cannot place a snowboarding game over a fighting game or FPS, because they're so radically different in fundamental design.[/color][/size][/font]

[QUOTE][b]Then the PS2 gave me[/b] Devil May Cry, Onimusha, Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City, Zone of The Enders: the Second Runner and the perfect Final Fantasy X, the latter being my favorite RPG. Surely, some of these titles later came on other consoles, but the PS2 was the system that brought them to me. [b]People don't steal any credit for the SNES now that Super Mario World and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past are now available for the GBA.[/b] Some of the aforementioned games were made for the SONY console, and later ported to the rest. The great variety of exclusive RPGs and fighters only helped in my PS2 being overly used.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]Again, "PS2 gave me." This is sounding like something out of a psychologists handbook; no offence, but this sounds unhealthy, lol.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]And really, Super Mario World and LttP are 4th generation games, as opposed to GTA, which is more of 17th generation. Surely, based on your statements here, surely you don't intend to debase or devalue the contributions of GBA LttP and GBA SMW because they first appeared on a console some, what, 10 or 11 years ago? I'm not about to bash Twin Snakes because I've already played it when it was on PSX. While I certainly had some negative criticisms of Twin Snakes, I did not sit there and say it shouldn't be played by anyone because anyone can play the original. In fact, as I played through Twin Snakes more and more, it became better and better. Of course, I still won't buy it at this price; if I can find it for 20 or 25, then I'll pick it up.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]And that is precisely what the Xbox GTA DoublePack did. Gamers got both Vice City and III in one package, for 50 dollars. How are you able to say that's a bad thing? How are you able to say that's not right? Yes, GTA isn't my cup of tea, but I'm pleased that we're seeing cross-console releases and cross-console re-issues of solid games.[/color][/size][/font]

[QUOTE][b]The upcoming release of Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater alone is enough to confidently put my PS2 above all other systems[/b], yet for those unsure there's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4, Hyper Street Fighter II: Anniversary Edition, Onimusha 3, Final Fantasy XII and Suikoden VI to prove the system has franchises strong enough for its lifetime.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]So, you're really placing your system's entire future into one game? And even so, with the other games you mentioned, have you considered that when they're released, they'll be expensive? With those high-profile franchises, especially... Street Fighter, GTA, Onimusha, Final Fantasy. Based on the recent industry developments, I'm willing to bet that within two years of those releases, we'll see some of them on the other consoles. I feel that you're ignoring a large portion of what the industry really does, and hyperfocusing on Sony and nothing else. That's not the behavior of a fan; that's the behavior of a fanboy.[/color][/size][/font]

[QUOTE]"But Cyke, what's wrong with the other systems?" Well, nothing, really... but it's a matter of what they offer and what they don't. [b]The XBOX was painfully lacking a good ten games to [u]warrant a purchase during its early beginnings[/u][/b], while the GC and PS2 were offering better titles, with only Shenmue II being of my interest. However, the console [b]slowly but surely "outranked" the GAMECUBE[/b], in my book, when Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic came out. I dislike Star Wars, and find the old movie franchise to be cheesy, and the new one to be in the same league as "Charlie's Angels" in terms of film quality (Horrendous, unbearable, and scarring), so the achievement this game made for me to not only accept this universe, but also like it and get addicted to it is immeasurable. The open-ended nature of this RPG is flawless, and does justice to the license it uses. In the words of many a Star Wars geek, "It's the best thing to happen to Star Wars since [i]The Empire Strikes Back[/i]." Games like Panzer Dragoon Orta, Otogi, MechAssault, Ninja Gaiden and the mostly better versions of multiplatform games (Prince of Persia: The Sands of time, WSB2K3, Beyond Good & Evil) helped ensure the system's second place in my video gaming heart... at least until March 9, 2004.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]I've bolded a few questionable statements. For one, we shouldn't expect a system to be released with loads upon loads of excellent launch titles. For as far back as I can remember, each new console had a small handful of launch titles, even PS2. And I think you should be aware that your Sony Fanboy nature is becoming readily apparent.[/color][/size][/font]

[QUOTE]I didn't get the Nintendo GAMECUBE until Super Mario Sunshine came out. I played my bro's system, and found no reason to get it. All its exclusive games were average, and some downright boring. After getting and playing Sunshine religiously, I was disappointed.[b] I could at least count on Nintendo to get Mario right, but I felt the title had boring, repetitive level design, repetitive, and unintuitive, uninteresting, tedious boss fights (except Bowser, I admit).[/b] It lacked most of what made Super Mario 64 such a classic, although it did include its problematic camera. Super Mario Sunshine was not only a disappointment, but it was a sign of things to come, and a notice of something that was already an issue with the GAMECUBE. With the exception of the incredibly revolutionary, almost-perfect Metroid Prime, [b]nearly all the "quality" exclusive titles were simply upgrade versions of their N64 counterparts[/b], and even some were upgraded versions of another franchise (Star Fox Adventures plays like a bad Zelda). [b]The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Super Smash Bros. Melee, 1080 Avalanche, Mario Kart: Double Dash, F-Zero GX, Resident Evil games, and Wave Race: Blue Storm were some of the GCN titles that shared way too many similarities to the previous game in their respective franchises.[/b] Yes, [i]some[/i] of these games were still great, but [b]why play something that feels I've played before where I could enjoy Devil May Cry, Z.O.E. or GTA, completely original games with their own taste, or an original take of an existing genre?[/b] This is not to say GCN was deprived of any original, great exclusive games (Viewtiful Joe, Eternal Darkness), they just weren't that many. Still, before KOTOR, the GCN was enjoying a nice second in my view, and it got it back after the release of [b]Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes, a game that, while it may be yet another game lacking in true originality for the system, was the remake of the best game ever made. Despite a few flaws and things missing, the game grabs you like the first one, and for any first-timer, they'll enjoy it was much as we did back in '98.[/b] The fact that we don't have F-Zero GX or Mario Kart online is a big minus. Whether Nintendo is choosing not to risk online gaming or not doesn't matter to me. I don't work for Nintendo, and I, as a consumer, only care about what companies give me. SONY and Microsoft give me online play, and Nintendo doesn't. That's all there is to it.[/QUOTE]
[font=Arial][size=2][color=black]What are you talking about? lol. Firstly, without hesitation, you criticize Double Dash and F-Zero, Windwaker, Smash Bros Melee, and REmake for tired gameplay or not enough variation. But then you praise Twin Snakes? Forgive me for asking you to refine your view here, but how do Twin Snakes and Smash Melee differ? I'm not talking about gaming mechanics, either. I'm talking about their relationship to a previous title. They both made vast improvements in flow of gameplay and made their respective originals easily accessible for new gamers. This is the same with Windwaker and F-Zero. I'm going to suggest that the only reason you criticize Double Dash or Windwaker, is because MGS1 was on a SONY system. Think about it, Cyke. Think about it.[/color][/size][/font]

[QUOTE]As for the GBA, I only limit myself to playing the Game Boy Player (I rarely play games anymore when I'm out, though I still own a GBA and a GBA SP), and I don't feel like playing tired remakes of games that I only thought were extremely enjoyable back then. With all the SNES ports, it's a good system to revisit the old days (despite the lack of four-face buttons), but in my view the new generation kicks the previous eras in the nads. It still has some great original and fun titles like Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and Boktai, but not enough of them to give the system more playtime.[/QUOTE]
[/font][/color][font=Arial][size=2][color=black]"Tired remakes"? What is a tired remake? The Mario Advance series? Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire? Metroid Zero Mission? Donkey Kong Country? LttP? Mario Kart Advance? C'mon, dude. If anything, these remakes/re-issues are giving the younger generation a chance to get in on the great games they missed, since they weren't even born yet, lol. And I know my older systems don't really work that well anymore, so these remakes and such are an extra bonus, because I can play them legally.[/color][/size][/font]

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[FONT=Arial Narrow][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1]The best gaming console for me... is well, whatever has Final Fantasy. I'm a pretty big devotee of the series, so I have (or had) a Gameboy Advance, as well as my trusty PS2. Gamecube is next on the list. Other than that I would choose the PS2. Not only of the great games available, but also backwards compatibility. Play my fifty plus PS titles on PS2. To be honest the DVD aspect doesn't come into it much for me. It's easier to just buy a dvd player, most of the console's inbuilt DVD doesn't compare.

~CrH~[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

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Guest ScirosDarkblade
Yeah I didn't discuss the controllers...

Well, overall I prefer the Gamecube's controller as far as comfort goes. It fits my hands much better than any other controlle, including the Xbox S. Additionally (and this is something NOBODY mentions, ever), the GCN controller's joysticks have grooved side boundaries, so it's easier to nail the 8 directions (up, down, left, right, and diagonals). This usually doesn't matter, but in games where precision really counts (Soul Calibur 2 being one, especially if you use Ivy and feel like doing her more difficult-to-enter moves), the grooves really help.
The button layout is very clever on the GCN because you can press the A button and any other button on the controller (except the c-stick, obviously) at the same time. Also the analog triggers on the Gamecube are the best by far.

I hated the Xbox controller until they released the S. The old one was way too big and the buttons were too slippery and didn't depress well. Overall I had a lot of trouble with it. The S, on the other hand, is great. The only thing that I don't like it for is the start button being on the left; that's just silly. It's in the middle even on the old Xbox controller. Also the analog triggers are lousy compared to Gamecube's. But its control pad is really comfortable and much better than the GCN's, if only because of its size.

I don't like the PS2 controller for a number of reasons. First of all I can't grip it well. It's not shaped to fit my hand. Second, NOBODY is consistent about which button is "confirm" and which is "cancel" as far as games go, so it's a bother to have to readjust whenever I play different games. That's not the controller's fault necessarily, but I guess the button layout lends itself to nothing "intuitive." Also I don't like the joysticks on it nearly as much as on the other controllers.

These are all very personal things, but they're not "opinions" because for me they're facts. I'm know it's different for different people.

Anyway the only reason I even said all that is because for cross-platform games, the controllers of the consoles are often a deciding factor in which one to get the game for. That and memory requirements (Beyond Good and Evil took 50-some blocks on the Gamecube memory card, which is just insane. Of course I got the Xbox version, if only for that).

Edit:
Regarding DVD playing ability, well that is just worthless. I do know some people who have bought a PS2 or Xbox over a Gamecube and cited that as a reason. And it's stupid. PS2 and Xbox both cost 80 bucks more than Gamecube, and play DVDs at the level of a 25 dollar DVD player, or worse. They don't even play mp3 cds. And of course they don't play multiregional. On top of that, the Xbox requires the extra 30 dollar DVD playback kit, and that's just plain wrong. So the DVD thing, yeah, it's worthless.

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I really don't know how anyone could want a PS2 for its DVD playing as it is. When DVD players were new, it was a nice feature because they were still rather expensive. However, the DVD playback on the PS2 is not even that good. I'd compare it to one I could get for $50, to be honest. No person who cared about image quality (which is a major selling point of DVDs) would watch one on a PS2 if they didn't have to.

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[QUOTE=PoisonTongue]Cyke, I've bolded what you should take a look at, lol. My inclination is to suggest you're hiding a Sony Fanboy in there.

For example, "only playable on my PS2." Why not just say "the PS2"?[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Because it's the PS2 I own. It's just wording things differently since I had to say "PS2" a billion times. You're thinking too much of it.[/color][/font]


[quote name='PoisonTongue']And I hardly think it's fair to praise SSX, a snowboarding game, over Smash Melee, a fighting game, or Halo, a FPS. Each of these games is in a totally different genre, with totally different focuses and design objectives. Thusly, you cannot outright disregard Smash Bros Melee or Halo, simply because you love SSX. It is really like comparing apples to tuna. I can understand comparing apples to oranges, because at least they're both fruit. Apples and oranges is like Street Fighter and Smash Bros Melee. But you absolutely cannot place a snowboarding game over a fighting game or FPS, because they're so radically different in fundamental design.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Well, that's your problem. You see, I don't limit myself to saying one game is better than the other because of the game's genre. I value a game over another simply on how much the title entertains me, how much I enjoy it, and how much it immerses me. SSX entertained, and immersed me more than Halo and SSBM ever did, and I enjoyed it more. Also, I normally prefer FPS and fighters to snowboarding games, so you make the math.[/color][/font]


[quote name='PoisonTongue']Again, "PS2 gave me." This is sounding like something out of a psychologists handbook; no offence, but this sounds unhealthy, lol.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I beg your pardon? It's a way of saying the system has great games available for me to play. If you're going to nitpick at the way I say things rather than accept the fact that I simply like the games on one system better than on another, then desist of this pathetic attempt at proving an unapparent point.[/color][/font]

[quote name='PoisonTongue']And really, Super Mario World and LttP are 4th generation games, as opposed to GTA, which is more of 17th generation. Surely, based on your statements here, surely you don't intend to debase or devalue the contributions of GBA LttP and GBA SMW because they first appeared on a console some, what, 10 or 11 years ago? I'm not about to bash Twin Snakes because I've already played it when it was on PSX. While I certainly had some negative criticisms of Twin Snakes, I did not sit there and say it shouldn't be played by anyone because anyone can play the original. In fact, as I played through Twin Snakes more and more, it became better and better. Of course, I still won't buy it at this price; if I can find it for 20 or 25, then I'll pick it up.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]So? What's your point? You're not disagreeing with my argument about not deceasing the value of MGS2 for the PS2, for example, only because it came out later for the XBOX. HOWEVER, when these titles appear in other consoles later on, they aren't original, like Super Mario World and LttP aren't to the GBA.[/color][/font]



[quote name='PoisonTongue']And that is precisely what the Xbox GTA DoublePack did. Gamers got both Vice City and III in one package, for 50 dollars. How are you able to say that's a bad thing? How are you able to say that's not right? Yes, GTA isn't my cup of tea, but I'm pleased that we're seeing cross-console releases and cross-console re-issues of solid games.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Where did I say that it was a bad thing that games got released for other consoles? I'm relating that "cross-console re-issues" you're referring to MY personal gain. That's what this thread is about. It's about what console you prefer and why. To me, GTA being released for the XBOX is of no use or value to ME, because I've played and beaten the games for the PS2, so when I take under account the XBOX's value to ME, I don't consider GTA: Double Pack as a factor.[/color][/font]


[quote name='PoisonTongue']So, you're really placing your system's entire future into one game? And even so, with the other games you mentioned, have you considered that when they're released, they'll be expensive? With those high-profile franchises, especially... Street Fighter, GTA, Onimusha, Final Fantasy. Based on the recent industry developments, I'm willing to bet that within two years of those releases, we'll see some of them on the other consoles. I feel that you're ignoring a large portion of what the industry really does, and hyperfocusing on Sony and nothing else. That's not the behavior of a fan; that's the behavior of a fanboy.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I like how you completely miss the point of this thread, and my post. I never talked about the future of the PS2 in the gaming industry; I talked about the value of my PS2 to ME. Since I have yet to play a game that entertains me more in so many ways as the previous two MGS games have when I played them on my PS and PS2, respectively, the upcoming release of MGS3 is reason enough to put the PS2 on top, in my book. By the time some of these titles come out to other systems, like you like to predict, I would've already played them and be moving on to other, newer games. If you call me a fanboy because I choose to play a game and enjoy it and give credit to the system I played it in, then your definition of the insulting term is highly incorrect.[/color][/font]


[quote name='PoisonTongue']I've bolded a few questionable statements. For one, we shouldn't expect a system to be released with loads upon loads of excellent launch titles. For as far back as I can remember, each new console had a small handful of launch titles, even PS2. And I think you should be aware that your Sony Fanboy nature is becoming readily apparent.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Maybe I should have stated "in the period of one year" rather than early beginnings. Does that seem to "remove" my "fanboy nature" for you? The point is that a decent number of quality titles for the XBOX had taken longer to materialize during the system's lifespan than it did for the lifespan of the GAMECUBE and PS2, respectively.[/color][/font]


[quote name='PoisonTongue']What are you talking about? lol. Firstly, without hesitation, you criticize Double Dash and F-Zero, Windwaker, Smash Bros Melee, and REmake for tired gameplay or not enough variation. But then you praise Twin Snakes? Forgive me for asking you to refine your view here, but how do Twin Snakes and Smash Melee differ? I'm not talking about gaming mechanics, either. I'm talking about their relationship to a previous title. They both made vast improvements in flow of gameplay and made their respective originals easily accessible for new gamers. This is the same with Windwaker and F-Zero. I'm going to suggest that the only reason you criticize Double Dash or Windwaker, is because MGS1 was on a SONY system. Think about it, Cyke. Think about it.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Um, no, expert of the oblivious. The reason I didn't criticize The Twin Snakes as much as the other repetitive titles is because The Twin Snakes is the remake OF MY FAVORITE GAME. You would have an argument if I were discussing Nintendo's console in terms of its impact, whether positive or negative, on the industry and its consumers. However, as I've pointed out several times, the reasons I gave above were in relation to my personal gain. For example, in order for me to significantly enjoy a Zelda game from the one before it, I need the franchise to make more of a change. Why? Because I'm not as big a fan of Zelda as I am of other series. On the other hand, MGS didn't need to make a big change for me from the original to Twin Snakes, because I can enjoy the title significantly with only minor changes. I can accept repetition when I enjoy it immensely, but I can't accept it when, while I play, I think more about how this game could've been better instead of just enjoying it without worries.

"Think about it, Poison. Think about it."[/color][/font]


[quote]"Tired remakes"? What is a tired remake? The Mario Advance series? Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire? Metroid Zero Mission? Donkey Kong Country? LttP? Mario Kart Advance? C'mon, dude. If anything, these remakes/re-issues are giving the younger generation a chance to get in on the great games they missed, since they weren't even born yet, lol. And I know my older systems don't really work that well anymore, so these remakes and such are an extra bonus, because I can play them legally.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I'm glad that they help bring the younger generation into old school gaming... too bad my post was about what [i]I[/i] got out of it, huh? Too bad that what I was asked of this thread was "What's the best gaming console for YOU." Yes, ME, Me, as in Cyke, not the younger generation, not the industry, but ME.

Next time you decide to extensively attack someone else's post, be sure to think of two important factors, a) What the topic is about, and what the thread starter asks for, and b) What the person you attempt to quote is answering to, and what he's trying to say. Think about that before you make sudden accusations without any basis for confirmation, as it makes you look completely lost, and frankly, quite humorous.

P.S. "Size 2" is the default size for font, so for the love of Koopa, don't use the unnecessary tags.[/color][/font]

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Ok, first you have to know that practically the only kind of games I play are RPG's. I delight in good plotlines and graphics, so my favorite game system from what I've seen would have to be Playstation2, but that's mostly because it has the .Hack games, which are currently my favorite game series (.Hack//INFECTION is the greatest game I've ever played, I need to get .Hack//MUTATION, though, cause I have INFECTION and OUTBREAK, but not MUTATION, which makes OUTBREAK a little frusterating). It also has (or rather Playstation in general has) the Spyro the Dragon series, which I find undyingly entertaining (partiularly the third game, Spyro: Year of the Dragon), though I don't like Enter the Dragonfly or any of the gameboy games much... Strangely enough, my second favorite gaming system is actually Nintindo 64, yes, you heard me, not Gamecube, good old Nintindo 64. The reason? Well that's equally bizzare. The reason I like Nintindo 64 so much is because of...Pokemon Snap. Yes, you heard me, Pokemon Snap, the all-time greatest N64 game ever created! I love it (I bought the game for ten dollars at Wal-Mart and have never stoped loving it since. My 3 favorite video games are (in this order)
-.Hack//INFECTION
-Pokemon Snap
- Spyro: Year of the Dragon, tied with Lunar Legend (GBA) and Pokemon Saphire (GBA)

So I guess that makes Gameboy Advance my third favorite, ne?

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[quote name='Cyke][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms']Because it's the PS2 I own. It's just wording things differently since I had to say "PS2" a billion times. You're thinking too much of it.[/quote][/font][/color]

Am I? I do suggest you evaluate yourself on a deeper level. You're working on a purely superficial train of thought and not allowing yourself to be open to what your subconscious is up to.

Also, why do you think you had to say "PS2" so much? Read between the lines of your posts, Cyke.


[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Well, that's your problem. You see, I don't limit myself to saying one game is better than the other because of the game's genre. I value a game over another simply on how much the title entertains me, how much I enjoy it, and how much it immerses me. SSX entertained, and immersed me more than Halo and SSBM ever did, and I enjoyed it more. Also, I normally prefer FPS and fighters to snowboarding games, so you make the math.[/font][/color][/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

That's your problem, Cyke. Tell you what, let's go back into that post, okay?

[font=Trebuchet MS][color=#00008b][QUOTE][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#00008b]One of the system's lunch titles, SSX, turned out to be one of the best games ever made, and a lot better than any of the launch titles from the GAMECUBE and XBOX. Some may argue that Super Smash Bros. Melee and Halo: Combat Evolved were better, but I believe SSBM is nothing more than your average button-smasher without the Nintendo characters and likeness smashed on top, which long replay value relies only on multiplayer gaming; and Halo is nothing but a solid combat FPS that's been taken way out of proportion by the majority.[/color][/font][/QUOTE][/color][/font]

Are you prepared to tell all of us here that your sole reason for crossing genre-boundaries with your dislike is simply because the game didn't immerse you? Look at what you said. "I believe SSBM is nothing more than your average button-smasher without the Nintendo characters and likeness smashed on top, which long replay value relies only on multiplayer gaming." We've established before that Smash Bros is far from a button-masher. You are certainly playing with the wrong people if that is your only opinion of Melee.

Cyke, you should really see what can be done with Pikachu. And you may accuse me of being off-topic here, but your criticism of Melee is wholly unfounded, even if it's your opinion. And since you so liberally throw around that accusation of button-masher, what makes you think we should take you seriously at all?

Halo is a solid FPS. It's entertaining, and for its time, it was groundbreaking. It's still a great FPS today and the fact that colleges [i]still[/i] host LAN events to play it should tell you something. I think that, like Melee, you haven't given it a chance and/or played with the right people. So again, your criticism is unfounded.

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I beg your pardon? It's a way of saying the system has great games available for me to play. If you're going to nitpick at the way I say things rather than accept the fact that I simply like the games on one system better than on another, then desist of this pathetic attempt at proving an unapparent point.[/font][/color][/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

"Pathetic attempt at proving an unapparent point"?

Who is attacking who here? I merely made a very reasonable observation, with a very reasonable basis, and based on your tone here, I think I may have struck a chord of truth. There is no need to get testy, Cyke; I wanted you to actually develop a logical argument. But, you feel threatened for some reason, and deem it necessary to retaliate to some imagined attack.

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]So? What's your point? You're not disagreeing with my argument about not deceasing the value of MGS2 for the PS2, for example, only because it came out later for the XBOX. HOWEVER, when these titles appear in other consoles later on, they aren't original, like Super Mario World and LttP aren't to the GBA.[/font][/color][/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

Do we value MGS2 at all, though? Even in its previous PS2 incarnation, the game was sub-rate. It looked pretty, of course, and played reasonably well, but I know I don't play games because they look good, and I know the gamers here don't either. I'm pretty sure you don't play them because they're eye candy, too. So, when we realize that we don't play only for graphics and playability, we need to examine other facets. One of those facets is plot. MGS2's plot...sucked, to put it bluntly. It was hazy, underdeveloped, hyperbolic, and unfocused. It was, quite possibly, one of the worst plots in any game ever.

And since when does good gaming have to be original? Yes, originality is a plus in a game, but the Marvel vs Capcom series has not had much significant change over the past few years. The engine has stayed relatively the same throughout the entire series. Is that a bad thing? No, because the engine is a solid one, and the reason that Smash Melee does so well is because its engine is a solid one.

Cyke, originality does not mean good gaming. Whiplash is an example of that. In development, the game sounded brilliant. It was a platformer that didn't require us to pick-up useless items. No gems, no coins, no beads, nothing. We just had to destroy property as we escaped from a testing lab. On paper, the game was amazing, and wholly original. Come release time, though, very disappointing. It didn't have enough development time.

Final Fantasy 8 had a radical new and original Draw System, but that was certainly inferior.

Cel Damage was a new and exciting spin on the vehicular combat genre, but it didn't accomplish what it set out to do. Whatever flair, dynamics, and originality it had were all for naught due to substandard and limited gameplay.

See? Originality does not always mean good gaming, just how a direct sequel does not always mean inferior gaming.

Also, utilizing the same engine, or keeping the same gameplay does not mean a bad game. You've played Bomberman, right? That's some of the most overtly simplistic gaming around, but it works beautifully, and if a gamer can't find that just the least bit fun, then there is something wrong. Bomberman prides itself on insane simplicity and has kept the same format through the majority of its many sequels and such. Surely Bomberman isn't a bad game because it lacks drastic innovation?



[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Where did I say that it was a bad thing that games got released for other consoles? I'm relating that "cross-console re-issues" you're referring to MY personal gain. That's what this thread is about. It's about what console you prefer and why. To me, GTA being released for the XBOX is of no use or value to ME, because I've played and beaten the games for the PS2, so when I take under account the XBOX's value to ME, I don't consider GTA: Double Pack as a factor.[/font][/color][/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

Shall I quote your post again?

[font=Trebuchet MS][color=#00008b][QUOTE][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#00008b]Then the PS2 gave me Devil May Cry, Onimusha, Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City, Zone of The Enders: the Second Runner and the perfect Final Fantasy X, the latter being my favorite RPG. Surely, some of these titles later came on other consoles, but the PS2 was the system that brought them to me. People don't steal any credit for the SNES now that Super Mario World and The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past are now available for the GBA. Some of the aforementioned games were made for the SONY console, and later ported to the rest.[/color][/font][/QUOTE] [/color][/font]

You're treating the cross-console re-issues like some imitation of the "pure" PS2 version. Cyke, you're only looking at your post on a superficial level. Get down into it and examine the subtleties of the language. If you can't, then you don't understand where you're coming from, and you can't expect me to take you seriously at all. In fact, I have a hard time taking you seriously to begin with, just considering your indignant tone.

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I like how you completely miss the point of this thread, and my post. I never talked about the future of the PS2 in the gaming industry; I talked about the value of my PS2 to ME. Since I have yet to play a game that entertains me more in so many ways as the previous two MGS games have when I played them on my PS and PS2, respectively, the upcoming release of MGS3 is reason enough to put the PS2 on top, in my book. By the time some of these titles come out to other systems, like you like to predict, I would've already played them and be moving on to other, newer games. If you call me a fanboy because I choose to play a game and enjoy it and give credit to the system I played it in, then your definition of the insulting term is highly incorrect.[/font][/color][/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

No, [i]you're[/i] completely missing [i]my[/i] point. I call you a fanboy because to you, only Sony exists and nothing more, and that's not how it works at all. The very [i]minor[/i] praise you've given to Xbox and Gamecube does nothing to give you a more well-rounded appearance. The minor praise serves to accentuate a compensation.


[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE][color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Maybe I should have stated "in the period of one year" rather than early beginnings. Does that seem to "remove" my "fanboy nature" for you? The point is that a decent number of quality titles for the XBOX had taken longer to materialize during the system's lifespan than it did for the lifespan of the GAMECUBE and PS2, respectively.[/font][/color][/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

You wrote off the Xbox, though, based on the one year after its release. If you know gaming, you know not to do that with any system. Also, considering that you just sat here and ripped up Smash Bros Melee, a launch title for Cube, then admitting you hadn't bought a Cube until Super Mario Sunshine, which you were disappointed with...c'mon. You refuse to enjoy anything other than Sony.


[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE]
[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Um, no, expert of the oblivious. The reason I didn't criticize The Twin Snakes as much as the other repetitive titles is because The Twin Snakes is the remake OF MY FAVORITE GAME. You would have an argument if I were discussing Nintendo's console in terms of its impact, whether positive or negative, on the industry and its consumers. However, as I've pointed out several times, the reasons I gave above were in relation to my personal gain. For example, in order for me to significantly enjoy a Zelda game from the one before it, I need the franchise to make more of a change. Why? Because I'm not as big a fan of Zelda as I am of other series. On the other hand, MGS didn't need to make a big change for me from the original to Twin Snakes, because I can enjoy the title significantly with only minor changes. I can accept repetition when I enjoy it immensely, but I can't accept it when, while I play, I think more about how this game could've been better instead of just enjoying it without worries.

"Think about it, Poison. Think about it."[/font][/color]
[/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

No, Cyke, the reason you didn't criticize Twin Snakes is because MGS1 was on a Sony system. And there is no need to take that kind of tone, either. I'm challenging you to think about why you feel this way, so that you can understand what's going on underneath your superficial opinions.

And if you are able to ignore faults in a game that you enjoy immensely, then you are blinded by your own ignorance. Even I, one of the staunchest supporters of GE and one of the harshest critics of EA's Bond games, cannot deny that GE has faults, and I cannot deny that some facets of EA's Bond games were done correctly.


[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms][QUOTE]
[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I'm glad that they help bring the younger generation into old school gaming... too bad my post was about what [i]I[/i] got out of it, huh? Too bad that what I was asked of this thread was "What's the best gaming console for YOU." Yes, ME, Me, as in Cyke, not the younger generation, not the industry, but ME.

Next time you decide to extensively attack someone else's post, be sure to think of two important factors, a) What the topic is about, and what the thread starter asks for, and b) What the person you attempt to quote is answering to, and what he's trying to say. Think about that before you make sudden accusations without any basis for confirmation, as it makes you look completely lost, and frankly, quite humorous.

P.S. "Size 2" is the default size for font, so for the love of Koopa, don't use the unnecessary tags.
[/font][/color][/QUOTE] [/font][/color]

Do you feel that threatened here? Threatened enough to portray me as some mindless monster? Do you honestly believe that I'm here solely to attack you? Do you honestly believe that I had attacking you in mind when I wrote my replies? Cyke, come off it. I don't play favorites and I don't play targets, either. If you want to play the flame game, be my guest. I'll play. But I warn you, Cyke, your side isn't looking too strong here.

You're the one making this into an "us vs them" situation; I am not. You're the one getting worked up over this; I am not. You're the one throwing insults around; I am not. I suggest you take a step back here and take a look at yourself, man. I mean, really, are you so full of yourself to think that everyone is out to get you? Are you so full of yourself to think that every little disagreement is a personal attack on your very being?

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Guest ScirosDarkblade
Guys lay off of Cyke. The man just LOVES Metal Gear Solid games, so obviously PS2 is the best for him (that and Gamecube once Twin Snakes hits stores, actually). Now, if Twin Snakes comes out for GCN and he still says that PS2 is the best system ever because it has the MGS series, then that's just bizarre. But really MGS-lovin' is all that's going on here. I say just let it be.

Me, I'm going back for some Ninja-lovin'. Ryu is mah man.

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[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']Guys lay off of Cyke. The man just LOVES Metal Gear Solid games, so obviously PS2 is the best for him (that and Gamecube once Twin Snakes hits stores, actually). [/quote]
Hey, I love Metal Gear Solid, as well. It's one of my favorite games of all-time, too. But you don't hear me ripping up other games and systems because of it. Love for one game does not constitute the ability to degrade everything else. I'm not talking about genre-specific, either. I'm talking about when someone loves one game so much that they disregard games in entirely different genres. Metal Gear Solid is a great game, but it's not the only game out there. PS2 is a solid system, but it's not the only system out there.

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Guest ScirosDarkblade
Well when I said what I said, I meant you can't take what he says too seriously. In other words, don't let it get to you so much. It's like when a person says that the LotR trilogy is the best trilogy ever, but then you find out that they think Matrix "r0x0rzz" and the Star Wars trilogy is stupid. So you basically say "well whatever then," and ignore them from then on. That's how I'd respond to Cyke. That's all.

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It's time for the Barbarian at the Gates to put his two cents in. Immediately, I should point out that my opinions will be avuncular to Cyke's--sort of. Thus far, I've seen a hodgepodge of misinterpretation that's lead to a series of spicy "micro-debates."

What Cyke's saying is entirely separate from a direct comparison between clashing genres and I can empathize with those views. It's not out-of-the ordinary to prefer something like SSX to SSBM or Halo. If the first entry in EA's successful series appealed to him on a greater level than other launch titles, it's understandable. On a whole, its originality was intriguing and the exuberant polish was commendable given how the game was based on a new engine on a new system (that developers initially encountered problems developing for).

Don't get me wrong--I'm not trying to take anything away from SSBM or Halo, but when a system launches, and it's all about the games, there's little else to go on aside from personal choice regardless of how different the software is. Thus, while we're talking about criticism based on individual preferences, it's difficult to say anyone is "right" or "wrong" no matter how much we disagree.

Now, where do I stand? I enjoy all three consoles for the unique benefits each offers. But, I'm most satisfied with my Playstation 2. Sony has done a great job of providing online functionability to its audience likewise offering a different kind of experience. Although Sony's online initiative arguably doesn't provide the allure of Microsoft's counterpart from a technical and presentational standpoint, EA's fervent support and the lack of billing makes it more appealing in my eyes. Furthermore, other huge franchises, such as Tony Hawk, only take advantage of Sony's network adaptor by offering a bevy of valuable exclusive content. The best reason to get online, Socom II, still stands as one of the most purely enjoyable games I've played on this generation of consoles. It's arguably superior to any shooters currently available on Xbox Live, as a matter of fact.

Otherwise, there's a constant revolving door of fantastic third party software on the Playstation 2 compared to the somewhat dwindling efforts on GameCube and lazy Xbox ports that release considerably later but fail to take advantage of the system. Consider Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 eventually becoming available for PS2 owners and you have an uncompromisingly superior library. The controller also strikes me as the most comfortable to such an extent that I purchased a converter so that I could use it on my GameCube and Xbox.

The GameCube is still a great system to own, and some great publishers still provide their support, but it's more of a novelty than anything. That may leave me open to caustic taunting, but I rarely buy games for it that are also available for the other consoles. As it stands, it's only worthwhile for a handful of quality exclusive titles. And, even these, although not necessarily disappointing, aren't traditionally excellent either (with a few exceptions, such as Metroid Prime).

Even Twin Snakes, which Cyke seems so fond of, isn't particularly notable. The redone cinematics were contrived, retreading on the same tired bullet-time effects over and over [i]and over[/i] again until they simply exhausted me. Plus, Silicon Knight's inability to lock the game at a steady frame rate remains suspect.

But, when a quality Nintendo title does launch, its charm and polish captivate me thoroughly.

I enjoy the Xbox simply because it gives me an opportunity to play many of the third party games I could already enjoy on the Playstation 2, but without wasting memory card space. This is especially useful in the case of sports games that have a tendency to devour room.

Also, it's impossible to ignore the growing list of "must-play" exclusive offerings on Microsoft's system. Star Wars: KOTOR is the best RPG I've played in years, and Ninja Gaiden, likewise, usurps even Viewtiful Joe by a clear margin, as the best action title available on any system. The upcoming Halo 2, Fable, B.C., Doom 3, Half-Life 2 and True Fantasy (which I won't be playing) have the potential to give the system legs I never expected it to grow.

Currently, it still has the only console version of Rainbow Six 3 worth owning, and the most impressive version of Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow.

Lastly, if you want to count the GameBoy Advance, I dearly appreciate it because it gives me something to do while waiting for a bus or something. Mario and Luigi: SuperStar Saga and Wario Ware alone cement my fondness for it. Because I never owned a Super Nintendo, it also gives me the opportunity to enjoy classics I wasn't able to play thoroughly, like Super Mario World and Zelda.

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[quote name='Petey']Am I? I do suggest you evaluate yourself on a deeper level. You're working on a purely superficial train of thought and not allowing yourself to be open to what your subconscious is up to.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Hahahaha, now someone that doesn't know me, based on one post, automatically labels me a Sony fanboy. All right, let's see where this is going.

You've labeled me a fanboy because I use phrases like "My PS2" and "The PS2 gave me;" because I dislike SSBM and think of it as an above mediocre button smasher, because I think Halo isn't [i]as good[/i] as most people make it out to be, and because I'm more accepting of a Twin Snakes remake than I am of other games that don't fall far from the predecessor tree.

How is that being superficial? Let's address this issue further.[/color][/font]

[QUOTE=Petey]That's your problem, Cyke. Tell you what, let's go back into that post, okay?

Are you prepared to tell all of us here that your sole reason for crossing genre-boundaries with your dislike is simply because the game didn't immerse you? Look at what you said. "I believe SSBM is nothing more than your average button-smasher without the Nintendo characters and likeness smashed on top, which long replay value relies only on multiplayer gaming." We've established before that Smash Bros is far from a button-masher. You are certainly playing with the wrong people if that is your only opinion of Melee.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]You see, that's where you're wrong. No one has "established" that. There's no fact that SSBM is NOT a button smasher. A common agreement, a shared opinion, is not a fact. There aren't any complicated moves to pull off in order to execute special moves or take out your opponent. The fact that [i]you[/i] think SSBM isn't a button smasher is your [i]opinion[/i], not an established fact. The difference here is that you think I'm a fanboy because I disagree with what you believe to be true, while I'm not judging you because you disagree with mine.

And who's "we"? Are you bringing other people's opinions into the argument? Isn't your opinion sufficient enough to hold this conversation?[/color][/font]

[quote name='Petey']Cyke, you should really see what can be done with Pikachu. And you may accuse me of being off-topic here, but your criticism of Melee is wholly unfounded, even if it's your opinion. And since you so liberally throw around that accusation of button-masher, what makes you think we should take you seriously at all?[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]What? So because I feel the game is a button smasher, my opinion isn't taken seriously? Also, aren't you the only one that's attacking my post here? Don't you realize that maybe others just feel that I have my own opinion about the game, and that it's neither right or wrong, as it's exactly that, an [i]opinion[/i]? I don't think I've liberally thrown the adjective around, as I used it only once in that post. Furthermore, I dislike SSBM not because of being a button smasher, but because, to ME, it's an [I]unentertaining[/I] button smasher. I enjoy the genre quite well, as I am a big fan of the CAPCOM and MARVEL crossovers. [/color][/font]

[quote name='Petey]Halo is a solid FPS. It's entertaining, and for its time, it was groundbreaking. It's still a great FPS today and the fact that colleges [i]still[/i'] host LAN events to play it should tell you something. I think that, like Melee, you haven't given it a chance and/or played with the right people. So again, your criticism is unfounded.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]So, first you [i]assume[/i] I haven't given Halo and SSBM enough playing time, and from that assumption you conclude my criticism is unfounded? How dare you say I haven't given either one of those games a great amount of playing time? You're so narrow-minded it's funny. You're basically telling me that if anyone gave a game you liked a decent amount of playing time, they will come to enjoy it and see the same good points you see. That's a perceptual error, commonly discussed in early speech and psychology courses.

Do you want my take on Halo? It didn't offer anything "revolutionary," like you said. The levels were extremely repetitive in of themselves, as well as the enemies. There's the option of using vehicles, but it's basically an improvement of an already existing idea already presented by previous FPS titles like Red Faction. Half-Life and Doom were revolutionary. Halo is not. It's not a bad game by any means, as the controls and A.I. are excellent, but there were FPS games that already offered that and more before Halo came along. Its multiplayer is quite fun, but so is on most of the FPS games I've played. Halo is a solid combat FPS... that's my exact description of whenever I'm asked about Bungie's game, but by no means do I consider it to be the best FPS out there, or even close. I chose SSX over SSBM and Halo because SSX was more fun for me than the other two, not because it was a PS2 exclusive. In fact, I consider the series the best BIG license around. I even thought, at the time, that SSX was the best snowboarding game out there, while I couldn't say SSBM was the best fighter game out there, nor that Halo is the best FPS out there. You can assume all you want, but you have absolutely no proof that I'm choosing games only because they're for a SONY console, as I'm giving the most basic reason of why I like a game more than the other: Because I simply enjoy it more.

It's ridiculous that because I dislike a highly praised game, you conclude I must not have played it enough. You're assuming this without proof, and you're basing your accusations on that wrongful assumption.[/color][/font]

[QUOTE=Petey]"Pathetic attempt at proving an unapparent point"?

Who is attacking who here? I merely made a very reasonable observation, with a very reasonable basis, and based on your tone here, I think I may have struck a chord of truth. There is no need to get testy, Cyke; I wanted you to actually develop a logical argument. But, you feel threatened for some reason, and deem it necessary to retaliate to some imagined attack.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Um, who was the one calling the other a fanboy, Petey? The reason I find your posts completely laughable is for the simple fact that you choose to believe that I like games only because they appear on SONY consoles, where I've made no indication of that theory of yours. And develop a logical argument? What more argument do you want other than the fact that I enjoy a specific game more than I do the other? That was my only reason. It happens to be on the PS2, and the more games I like for the PS2, the more I will like the system.

Oh, and let's look at some of your "observations," shall we?[/color][/font]

[quote=]Cyke, I've bolded what you should take a look at, lol. My inclination is to suggest you're hiding a Sony Fanboy in there.

For example, "only playable on my PS2." Why not just say "the PS2"?[/quote]

[quote]Again, "PS2 gave me." This is sounding like something out of a psychologists handbook; no offence, but this sounds unhealthy, lol.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]These statements don't prove anything about your speculation of my being a Sony fanboy. They only show my enthusiasm in talking about the system.[/color][/font]

[quote]So, you're really placing your system's entire future into one game? And even so, with the other games you mentioned, have you considered that when they're released, they'll be expensive? With those high-profile franchises, especially... Street Fighter, GTA, Onimusha, Final Fantasy. Based on the recent industry developments, I'm willing to bet that within two years of those releases, we'll see some of them on the other consoles. I feel that you're ignoring a large portion of what the industry really does, and hyperfocusing on Sony and nothing else. That's not the behavior of a fan; that's the behavior of a fanboy.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]The rest of your statements fall under this category. You were talking about the future in the industry of the PS2, and in other paragraphs you went on to comment about the NES/SNES remakes being on the GBA as being good for the younger audience. All these statements do NOT apply to the topic at hand, as I was attacking the games for the lack of value they provided to ME, since this thread asks what's the best console for ME.

Yes, great observations if we're discussing the value of a video game to the industry, consumers and such, but we're not. My post limited itself to the value some of the games had for me alone.[/color][/font]



[quote name='Petey']Do we value MGS2 at all, though? Even in its previous PS2 incarnation, the game was sub-rate. It looked pretty, of course, and played reasonably well, but I know I don't play games because they look good, and I know the gamers here don't either. I'm pretty sure you don't play them because they're eye candy, too. So, when we realize that we don't play only for graphics and playability, we need to examine other facets. One of those facets is plot. MGS2's plot...sucked, to put it bluntly. It was hazy, underdeveloped, hyperbolic, and unfocused. It was, quite possibly, one of the worst plots in any game ever.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Actually, we only play games for "playability," or for the more popular term, "gameplay." You wouldn't play a game that had a crappy gameplay with an amazing story. The story, graphics and music help work together with gameplay to form the final product, but gameplay is what makes or breaks a game. Either way, what does the above paragraph prove? Again, you seem to melt the definition of what an opinion and a fact is. You say the story sucked and was one of the worst in video game history. That's nothing but an opinion, and people's opinions of those who disagree with you aren't of any lesser value. I agree that the story wasn't as good as the one found in MGS, but I believe it was better than what most video games put out as a story. Am I wrong to believe that? Who are you to say the plot sucked and that's that?[/color][/font]

[quote=Petey]And since when does good gaming have to be original? Yes, originality is a plus in a game, but the Marvel vs Capcom series has not had much significant change over the past few years. The engine has stayed relatively the same throughout the entire series. Is that a bad thing? No, because the engine is a solid one, and the reason that Smash Melee does so well is because its engine is a solid one.

Cyke, originality does not mean good gaming. Whiplash is an example of that. In development, the game sounded brilliant. It was a platformer that didn't require us to pick-up useless items. No gems, no coins, no beads, nothing. We just had to destroy property as we escaped from a testing lab. On paper, the game was amazing, and wholly original. Come release time, though, very disappointing. It didn't have enough development time.

Final Fantasy 8 had a radical new and original Draw System, but that was certainly inferior.

Cel Damage was a new and exciting spin on the vehicular combat genre, but it didn't accomplish what it set out to do. Whatever flair, dynamics, and originality it had were all for naught due to substandard and limited gameplay.

See? Originality does not always mean good gaming, just how a direct sequel does not always mean inferior gaming.[/quote]


[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Petey, I never said that a game had to be original to be good, but a game that's both great and original is better than a game that's just great. Don't you agree? And since I was talking about MY personal tastes, I can have whatever taste I want. The fact is, I ENJOYED MGS: TTS more than I did Wind Waker and F-Zero GX, for example, because when I played the latter games I enjoyed myself, but I also felt like I was playing enhanced versions of games I liked decently. If F-Zero were my most loved game of all time, GX would've been more of a blast, and I wouldn't have cared if it felt somewhat repetitive. However, I did find it repetitive, and not in a good way... so I didn't enjoy [I]as much[/I]. [/font][/color]

[quote name='Petey']You're treating the cross-console re-issues like some imitation of the "pure" PS2 version. Cyke, you're only looking at your post on a superficial level. Get down into it and examine the subtleties of the language. If you can't, then you don't understand where you're coming from, and you can't expect me to take you seriously at all. In fact, I have a hard time taking you seriously to begin with, just considering your indignant tone.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I was never arguing which system was best to anyone else. If my tone isn't to your liking, then too bad. I was never trying to prove that the PS2 is better than the other systems, but I merely stated WHY it was best for ME. You have been the ONLY ONE that has jumped on me for liking the PS2 more. And yes, games that I've already played on one console and are later released on another have NO VALUE to me. Why should they? Just like I didn't care for GTA: Double Pack for the XBOX, I didn't care for Sonic Heroes on the PS2, as I had already tried it on my GAMECUBE.[/color][/font]

[quote name='Petey]No, [i]you're[/i] completely missing [i]my[/i] point. I call you a fanboy because to you, only Sony exists and nothing more, and that's not how it works at all. The very [i]minor[/i'] praise you've given to Xbox and Gamecube does nothing to give you a more well-rounded appearance. The minor praise serves to accentuate a compensation.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]That's because I focused on the system I liked the most, the PlayStation 2. In my post, I focused more on the good the PS2 has to ME over the lesser good the other consoles have to ME. If you must know, there are only 2 PS2 games that rate higher in my book than the XBOX-exclusive KOTOR, and only one PS2 game that tops the GAMECUBE-exclusive Twin Snakes. However, I can't honestly say that I've found as many games I've enjoyed on the GCN and XBOX as I have on my PS2, and that's a similar opinion some people have had on this thread (Only the other way around). You're only attacking me because my post, instead of being filled with roses and delicacy, is made with an air of pride from preferring my PS2. Too bad that was more than enough for you to miss the point of my post, since again, you're the only one that has had a trouble with it.[/color][/font]


[quote name='Petey']You wrote off the Xbox, though, based on the one year after its release. If you know gaming, you know not to do that with any system. Also, considering that you just sat here and ripped up Smash Bros Melee, a launch title for Cube, then admitting you hadn't bought a Cube until Super Mario Sunshine, which you were disappointed with...c'mon. You refuse to enjoy anything other than Sony.[[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]I didn't write it off, but I didn't give it as much credit as the other two consoles. And, seriously, if, let us say, I didn't find a single game I liked for the XBOX at the time, can you blame me? Liking a game is completely subjective, so you can't say I was a SONY fanboy only because I didn't like the 'BOX in the beginning.

See? This is why you're jumping the shark. You judge me based on a single post. A SINGLE post... and not about a discussion where we were determining which system is better, but on a discussion where people simply stated what was best for them. I played SSBM like I would any other game when my little brother got the GAMECUBE for Christmas 2001. It was his favorite game, and still is, so we ended up playing it a lot more than any other GC title. When my brother left in the early summer of 02 with my family, I waited until Sunshine came out to get a GAMECUBE for myself.

Your biggest problem is connecting assumption after assumption until you're left with a theory about me that couldn't be further from the truth.

Repeat after me: "I shall not judge a person only by one post."

It's not that hard, really.[/color][/font]


[quote name='Petey']No, Cyke, the reason you didn't criticize Twin Snakes is because MGS1 was on a Sony system. And there is no need to take that kind of tone, either. I'm challenging you to think about why you feel this way, so that you can understand what's going on underneath your superficial opinions.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Am I the only who finds this incredibly funny. Petey, after one post you read, you have concluded that I'm superficially choosing Twin Snakes only because it was a SONY title, where you have given no proof of your belief that the REASON I like certain games is because they were for a SONY console. You simply haven't.

I chose Twin Snakes because it's the remake of my favorite game. That's it. In fact, before I fought the Cyborg Ninja in Twin Snakes, I was very disappointed with the title. Before fighting Mantis, Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness, two Nintendo-published games were my favorite GAMECUBE games, followed [i]very closely[/i] by The Wind Waker, developed and published by Nintendo. Now, if I were a SONY fanboy, wouldn't I have made TTS my most favorite game as soon as I picked up the controller, or wouldn't I have chosen a multiplatform game that was also on the PS2? IN FACT, shouldn't I be heavily criticizing Twin Snakes as well for being a Nintendo exclusive and not a PS2 game, which I'm not? If I were a SONY fanboy, shouldn't I pick my favorite games as being a multi-platform game like Prince of Persia, which is also available for the PS2? Seriously, you're off the mark when you call me a fanboy, but this whole thing is funny because you made a thorough opinion of me from a single post, which is something that's impossible to do, no matter how smart you are or what degree in psychology you have. Don't you agree?[/color][/font]

[quote name='Petey']And if you are able to ignore faults in a game that you enjoy immensely, then you are blinded by your own ignorance. Even I, one of the staunchest supporters of GE and one of the harshest critics of EA's Bond games, cannot deny that GE has faults, and I cannot deny that some facets of EA's Bond games were done correctly.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Woah, again, assuming? Oh, that's what you're good at, I see. I never said the games I enjoyed were flaw-free, now did I? But, again, you go ahead and put words in my mouth.

MGS flaws?

- Way too short.
- You spend as much time playing as you do watching cut scenes. After the first time around, most people would understandably skip these, and beat the game even sooner.
-It's the same guards over and over again (not including boss fights).
-While gameplay itself is varied, the game is linear, with changes made only in CODEC calls and cut scenes depending on a choice the player is forced to make in the middle of the game.

See, any game I've ever played has flaws. In fact, I find games like Metroid Prime to have fewer flaws than MGS... but it's the overall experience that makes me choose one game over another, and in that regard MGS succeeded above any other game.[/font][/color]

[quote name='Petey']Do you feel that threatened here? Threatened enough to portray me as some mindless monster? Do you honestly believe that I'm here solely to attack you? Do you honestly believe that I had attacking you in mind when I wrote my replies? Cyke, come off it. I don't play favorites and I don't play targets, either. If you want to play the flame game, be my guest. I'll play. But I warn you, Cyke, your side isn't looking too strong here.[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Monster? Oh, the drama...

No, Petey, I was pointing out that you were the only one to turn your opinions into facts. You told me good things about Halo and SSBM, which I disagree with, and for that you call me a fanboy, simply because those games aren't on a SONY system. Just because my post implies that I like SONY doesn't mean that I'm a fanboy, because I did give reasons that I felt were the cause of my disliking, or not liking as much, games like SSBM and Halo, games I have played thoroughly (Something you assumed I did not).

There's no "side" here, boy. Again, you've been the only one to attack my post. I read some people, without quoting me, disagreed with what I said about the PS2 controller, WHICH IS FINE. Someone said they didn't find the Dual Shock ergonomic, but unlike you, you don't see me jumping on them and explaining to them why I believe they should think otherwise. You're fighting opinion here, and you have no solid proof that I'm a SONY fanboy... just speculation.[/color][/font]

[quote name='Petey']You're the one making this into an "us vs them" situation; I am not. You're the one getting worked up over this; I am not. You're the one throwing insults around; I am not. I suggest you take a step back here and take a look at yourself, man. I mean, really, are you so full of yourself to think that everyone is out to get you? Are you so full of yourself to think that every little disagreement is a personal attack on your very being?[/quote]

[color=darkblue][font=trebuchet ms]Hmmm... again, who called who a fanboy? Who insulted who, first? While I may have been attacking games, you attacked me. I don't see me, then, as the one that's taking this too seriously. After all, who was the one that started this silly debate? :)[/color][/font]

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From what I have found from playing very many different types of consoles, the N64, Sega, and the PS2 are the consoles for me. I know that there are no more Sega games on the market or even the Sega console on the market, I still like it a lot. Sega is what got me to love Sonic so much.

Sega is my third favorite, but the N64 is my second. The N64 I thought had the best Mario games ever made. There was Mario Party, and Mario Kart. The N64 also had some awesome Zelda games.

My first favorite console is none other than the PS2 itself. The controller is easy to use and comfortable to handle. There are plenty of games that I enjoy to play on there...like Fatal Frame, Tony Hawk, .hack, and Final Fantsy. There are many others, though I cannot think of the titles off the top of my head. The PS2 just keeps me content and happy.

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[font=Verdana][size=1][color=teal]The best consoles for me = [b] both the X Box and the PS2.[/b][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][color=teal][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][color=teal]Botth these platforms have strengths and weaknesses, and both are really enjoyable to play, If I could afford to also purchase a X Box I would, so I could drag it along to our [b]LAN parties[/b] and get even more people online at once.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][color=teal][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][color=teal][b]Multiplayer kicks *** on the X box[/b], the ability to hook up all your consoles into a LAN really makes its Multiplayer function stand out from other consoles, yet, Playstation2 has a really cool controller system, and loads of cool titles, [b]I prefer the PS2's controller to the sometimes clunky X Box one[/b], I guess it really comes down to what you are used to though. I can actually play [b]Halo[/b] and not end up staring at the gorund during crucial gun battles now, which, by the way, is a huge leap forward for me, I am still the most slaughtered in the game though.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][color=teal][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][color=#008080][b]PS2 has San Andreas[/b] (GTA) exclusive,a nd seeign that is my favourite game, it is a huge factor for me on which platform is the Console of the day, so to speak.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][color=teal][/color][/size][/font]

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