PiroMunkie Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 [SIZE=1]Well well, recently my school has begun to recite the [i]Pledge of Allegiance[/i] every morning as a school wide thing. And I ask myself "Why?". There are people there who don't even respect the flag, this is an insult to them; a mockery of their personal beliefs. It's just like how we're not suppsoed to say 'gay' or '******' (please take no offense to that, none is meant) or any other racial/sexually offensive slurs. And this is a public school, not a military school, so it's almost the equivelant of saying a school wide prayer at the beginning of the day. And usually by the time everyone stands up to recite it it's over anyways. So there's really no point. I personally don't even say it. I have that right. I'm contemplating whether to not to even stand(physically, as in the opposite of sitting) for it. And if they try to bust me for that I'll throw my right to do such right in their faces. If they still try to bust me for it then, I'll go ask my American Government teacher, and if he still denies it, I'll get a book out and slam my right to do so right there in writing and plain text. I know we have people from other coutnries here, but I think you can kinda understand what I'm talking about and you can have your input as well. I dunno, what do you think? Is this right?[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 You guys [i]just[/i] started that? Not that it matters to me. I do think that you should have the option not to if you don't want to. But, why wouldn't you want to? I'm fairly patriotic myself, so saluting the flag is fine with me. However, if it offends some people I don't think that they should be forced to do it. -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvet paws Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 That's just...sad...and wrong in away. At Junior school and now all through high school to this, my last year, I stopped saying the lords prayer and my grace because I honestly don't believe in any of that so why should I say it? It's like as a unbeliever I'm making a mockery of the religion and it's followers by reciting their prayers when I couldn't give a fig about any of it. I got in trouble at first..but a few teachers saw where I was coming from and said as long as I sat quietly I'd be alright. Nobody seemed to notice that I never took part though, except some of my friends who also hated it and didn't believe in any of it..so we made an example of sitting bolt upright when everyone else was told to bow their heads. We stood out really badly and got dirty looks, but as long as we didn't say anything then they couldn't do anything :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvet paws Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 heh what I meant to say was..I know it's not the same as having to solute a flag...the the idea of standing up for yourself and doing what you feel/believe is right, is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I say it, at school we just do it. There is this one kid who doesn't say the pledge, he was in my class last year, he is of a different relligion or something like that so he didn't want to say it, he just stayed seated. He had to bring a note before he didn't have to say it anymore, the after that he left the class each morning before we said it and left. I really don't mind myself. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyJaUn~FuLlEr Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Well at my school we have to recite it everyday so i don't really know cause no one complains about it so i guess it 's ok to them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 [FONT=century gothic]I go to a school with required weekly Chapel attendance and daily devotions, so I guess it's not really my place to say, huh?[/FONT] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navi Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I haven't stood for the Pledge of Allegience in most of my elementary and intermediate education. We don't do it in high school, but we have to do it for assemblies, and I refuse. Im not patriotic at all, and I don't like the last line: "One nation under God..." Before people start lecturing me on how 'privileged' I am to be living in this country, let me tell you, I know. And you can also shut up about it being only one word, and that I could always mouth it, because I will simply not do that. Piro: If you believe it's right, by all means, do it. And don't let your peers or administers discourage you. Some teacher's will say "Alright, Piro if you don't stand up and give respect to the flag, everyone will have to stay after class.", and no doubt some of your classmates will say "Dammit. Im gonna kick your *** if you don't stand." using peer pressure that we've been taught to resist throughout our education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardust Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 yup,we say that since kindergarden,every morning,everyday,actually,I wuz thikin bout it today,it's kinda weird really,how we all get up and say it routinly and never stop to think wut the words mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 If your not American or it's against a group that your in then you should not be forced to say it but if your an American citizin then you damn well should say it. Weither there is the word dare I say it "God" in it or not. And if you don't say it then you have no right calling yourself an American citizin. Why don't you go to some third world country where you don't have to say any pledge and you go live there. Because God (There's that word again) forbid you show a little respect to your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 We've always had to at least stand up for the flag salute. When I was in High School no one demanded that we say it, or put our hand on our chest, but had to have enough respect to at least stand for it. I agree that it can be offensive to some people because the word "God" is in the song. In some ways our pledge is archaic in that it seems to cater to Christianity. However, if someone practices a religion, they most likely worship a God of some sorts. I don't see what the big deal is there. All they have to do is pledge allegiance to the United States under their God. For those that don't believe in God...just don't say that part. Anyway, it's best to just stand up for a few seconds to avoid the hastle of it all. If you feel really strongly against it, you can have your parents notify the school-that usually works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delian Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I don't think we ever had to do that. On school essemblies in Primary, all we did was recite our National Anthem. But I would have chosen against reciting allegiance if we ever had to do it. My choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Personally, I've said it all my life. I still do. And as far as I can remember, it was policy in school to say it or at least stand for the pledge; I find it kind of weird not everyone did that... must be a states' rights thing. I don't see what the big deal is. No country, just like no human is perfect, however I am most certainly proud to live in the US. Life is a living hell in other places where some freedoms don't exist. In most countries, you wouldn't even [i]have the option[/i] of refusing to salute, you would be made to, or you'd be thrown in jail or who knows what else. In Cuba, there's no such thing as 'freedom of speech and choice', in Saudi Arabia women can't look at a man in the eye without getting shot, and further more, at least here in America I could have 10 kids if I wanted- all of them girls- whereas in China I could only have one kid, and if it were a girl I'd probably have to give it up or kill it. And if anyone's [i]offended[/i] by the mentioning of GOD, you can just not say it. Like Crazy White Boy said; if you don't believe in the God of Christianity, then relate it to your own religious beliefs. And if you're atheist, it wouldn't kill you to at least stand and show respect to the millions of people who died so you could choose whether or not you want to show respect for them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiroMunkie Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 [SIZE=1]Well now, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the mentioning of the word "god" in the Pledge. I understand that it was written way back when when christianity was a big influence among things and just about everybody was a believer. In short, I have nothing against the Pledge itself, I mean, notice I capitalize the word "Pledge" each time I say it here. It's where it's being said really. Now I understand in grade school they're going to make you do it, to get you all gung-ho about your country and to get you to know it so you're not this ignoramus that doesn't know the words to the [i]Pledge of Allegiance[/i]. I just don't think it should [i]have[/i] to be said [u]school wide[/u] every day. I believe there was even a court case about this a long time ago. A kid wouldn't recite the Pledge and there was this whole big schpiel about it and the court ruled he didn't have to recite it or no one who didn't want to didn't have to either. I think it should be more of a personal thing. If a person is [i]that[/i] dedicated to it, then they can recite it to themselves or with a group of friends around the flagpole every morning before school. Navi: I'm not afraid [i]not[/i] to say it. In fact, I [i][u]don't[/i][/u] say it. Peer pressure is no worry for me, there is nothing to that effect that could make me think otherwise about not standing for the Pledge. Heh, the irony in the situation would be that I'm standing up for what I believe by sitting down :rolleyes:[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 BTW Piro, I just wanted to point out that I wasn't directing my post entirely to you, 'cause it's a little heated ^.^; I was stating my opinion to those who were against it........ just to be against it. That's always aggrivated me, 'cause some people just don't relaize how good we have it (most of us) here in the US. Anyways, just wanted to make sure you knew that.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PiroMunkie [/i] [B][SIZE=1]Navi: I'm not afraid [i]not[/i] to say it. In fact, I [i][u]don't[/i][/u] say it. Peer pressure is no worry for me, there is nothing to that effect that could make me think otherwise about not standing for the Pledge. Heh, the irony in the situation would be that I'm standing up for what I believe by sitting down :rolleyes:[/SIZE] [/B][/QUOTE] You know, I think that that was rather well said PiroMunkie. You actually just helped me realize something about myself. All of my years in public schooling, I'd get up and wonder why I was saluting the flag when it's nothing more than a piece of cloth. Now..I think that I stood up because of the meaning behind that cloth. I think I saluted it because it represents a country that actually gives people the right to sit down. There are probably other countries where people wouldn't have that luxury, even if they were standing up for themselves for a good reason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiroMunkie Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Anna [/i] [B]BTW Piro, I just wanted to point out that I wasn't directing my post entirely to you, 'cause it's a little heated ^.^; I was stating my opinion to those who were against it........ just to be against it. That's always aggrivated me, 'cause some people just don't relaize how good we have it (most of us) here in the US. Anyways, just wanted to make sure you knew that.:D[/B][/QUOTE][SIZE=1]Well thanks for clearing that up Anna! I didn't take it completely at me, but I read it so I'm gonna take some personal meaning from it. I know how well we have it here. I'm glad I live here, I mean, I get great joy out of practicing and speaking of anarchy but I know it can never exist because there's a system to everything, it's just fun while it lasts. I mean, it's like, only in America can you create chaos and not neccesarily always get killed for it. I would know :devil: And the UK too! Gotta remember those Sex Pistols "Anarchy in the UK" :p Anyway, I'm a bit off topic, sorry, back to the point! Continue on people... :)[/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Well... to show some respect, what little I have, for this country I always did stand up.... That and the fact the teacher made us stand.... and not wanting to bother to argue or even have a debate with the teacher, I just stood anyway.... however I didn't always say the Pledge and if I did, it was always fast as hell... in fact, I would say it so fast my friends looked forward to listening to me say it every morning... oh well... I never cared that much to waste 5 seconds of my morning... it means nothing to me to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 [color=crimson]Because of my religon I never recited it... And in texas it's recited from Kinder+.... I just stood in honor and respect for the ruling country in which I lived, nothing more...[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven's Cloud Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 [color=indigo] I believe that the greatest right that US citizens have is the right to verbally disagree with government policies and publicly express our distaste for certian actions that the government takes. If this means that you don't wish to recite the pledge of alliegence in school because you don't agree with pledging your alleigence openly to the public then you should not be forced to do so. Don't think me unpatriotic for saying this...It is my beliefe that by recognizing these rights, US citizens are actually supporting our way of government. By being a citizen of the US you are given certian liberties and responsibilities. As long as you are utilizing your liberties without infringing on anyone elses rights (for example, it is all right to not say the pledge of alleigence, it is not alright to prevent others from saying it) you are enjoying one of the freedoms that the founders of this country supported, and that actually makes it a patriotic gesture by you utilizing your civil liberties...[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan L Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I have no problem with your pledge, though I have no idea what it is (UK citizen, after all), and I have no problem with patriotic people, after all, it's your decision whether to stand by your country or not. But personally, I am not very patriotic. I don't like to think that my country is any better than any other country.. and don't argue back at that one comment, cos I know that that's not what you consider patriotism to be all about... but I do.. and I'm not saying that I am right. no one can say that in such an opinion based topic. but that's what I believe, my reasons are my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duo Maxwell Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Deus_Ex_Machina [/i] [B]I have no problem with your pledge, though I have no idea what it is (UK citizen, after all), and I have no problem with patriotic people, after all, it's your decision whether to stand by your country or not. But personally, I am not very patriotic. I don't like to think that my country is any better than any other country.. and don't argue back at that one comment, cos I know that that's not what you consider patriotism to be all about... but I do.. and I'm not saying that I am right. no one can say that in such an opinion based topic. but that's what I believe, my reasons are my own. [/B][/QUOTE] yeah I agree, personally I don't think much of my country. and I woulda just either stood up or sat down when everyone recites it, of coures I'd be millions of miles away... like I am during assembly or I'd be talking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinata Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Although the Pledge of Allegiance may be stupid to you, it isn't like that for millions and millions of Americans..They love to say it and thet take offense if other people don't respect their flag...Yeah you don't have to say the Pledge if you don't want to but at least have the courtesy to stand....That's it no words, no hand across the chest, but show respect by standing!!!!This goes for wherever you are..If you visit another country and you see everyone stand for their national song or something, You stand to. It shows that you respect them and their country even if you don't like tham or whatever.. But doing this may also save yor A%% from a couple of fights!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Voodookanaka Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 There arnt many full pledge Marxists here. The whole flag thing is to create a set of ppl who are strong in ideological beliefs, making u easy to b exploited as workers by the ruling class. u are taught patriachy towards your homeland in order for u to protect it and keep the ruling classes in power. DAMN STRAIGHT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon5 Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I Pledge Allegance to the flag of The United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God indivisable with liberty and justice for all. That is the pledge of Allegance for all of you who don't know it. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Heaven's Cloud [/i] [B][color=indigo] Don't think me unpatriotic for saying this...It is my beliefe that by recognizing these rights, US citizens are actually supporting our way of government. By being a citizen of the US you are given certian liberties and responsibilities. As long as you are utilizing your liberties without infringing on anyone elses rights (for example, it is all right to not say the pledge of alleigence, it is not alright to prevent others from saying it) you are enjoying one of the freedoms that the founders of this country supported, and that actually makes it a patriotic gesture by you utilizing your civil liberties...[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] I really woulden't call it a patriotic gesture. I would call it more abusing your rights you have as a U.S. citizin. And if you really wanted to thank your country for these right you could at least say the pledge. To Anna's posts (not enough room to for both) I think your said exactly what I wanted mine want to say in a calmer more indepth manner. And same here I wasen't yelling a Prio either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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