Kent

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i] [B]Ugh, the Kurds are not Saddam's people... lol. You know nothing of history if you think the Kurds are Saddam's people. Yes they live in Iraq, they live elsewhere too, but NO ONE wants them. NO ONE, not just Iraq, NO ONE. They've been getting killed off for YEARS. It's not just a recent thing, this fued dates back to the 1700s. Saddam does not consider the Kurds "his people" by any extent. he hates them, much like the rest of the Middles East. They pose a legitamate threat to take over his real people and that of every other middle eastern country.mIn order to keep this threat down, he must kill a significant amount of them. If he doesn't the Kurds wil gain high numbers and take over everything. Much like how the US is taking out "legitamate threats" to our country now, Saddam was taking out a threat to his country. It's just Saddam was killing people, not a government (even though the US is killing people) because the Kurds have no real government. The idea that Saddam is killing his own people is kind of false in a sense. At least if you're referring to the Kurds. They just happen to be in Northern Iraq. They are in Iran too, and Iran has been killing them as well... but you knew that already right? [/B][/QUOTE] I would have to say this post is inflamitory in two ways... 1. the usa should not be compared to saddam. Him killing Kurds in mass genocide is a completely different issue than America dealing with the threats posed by the heads of rouge states. Saddam is responsible for all sorts of horrible things that have been mentioned in this thread but one thing that is rarly mentioned is the greater possibility of peace between the general populations of Israel and Palestine once saddam is removed from power. Saddam himself gives 25,000 dollars to the family of any suicide bomber in palestine... If that is not adding fuel to an already out of control fire, then I dont know what is. That palestine issue is just one more example of why the world itself will be better off without saddam... however, comparing the U.S.A. in its quest to quill the worlds hostilities in certain regions to Saddam commiting genocide to "eliminate a threat to his government and people" is just bogus. Im actually suprised that you would make such a comparison that lacks in the most obvious of logic... it almost sounds like your moving more to the side of anti-american, leftist views and not the usual, semi-leftist, pro American ideals view. The second part of the post that was inflamitory was the issue of "saddams people." This is a screwy concept in the first place being that saddam took over Iraq itself with hostilities and not any sort of democratic election. So Saddam was never really the leader of the people. He was more of a dictator that took the people he wanted for his own. That in mind, the kurds are people of Iraq. Just as there are kurds who are the people of Iran. Unless the world gives in and provides the kurds with a state of kurdistan, we will always have to recognize these people as part of a state. (Iran, Iraq, where ever they made live) The idea of the kurds not being legtimate Iraqi's is like people who supported al gore in the elections, not being legtimate Americans. The comparison is valid because the kurds do not support saddam, yet are valid citizens of Iraq, just as the "gores" do not support bush, yet are valid citizens of America. Another point that was inflamitory was the underlying tone that (most likely was unintended) it is ok to destroy the kurds because they were being killed of in Iran, and because the people of the middle east, no matter where, all hate the kurds. Unfortunatly, you know just as well as I do that, one person doing something bad does not make it ok for another person to do the same thing. That is the sort of additude that leads to riots and looting, not legtimate civil action. The kurds are people, just as you and I, and although I may end up disliking them in 10 years when they turn on America, I will still stick up for them now during this era where no one is willing to defend them.

Yea, lord knows its never worth watching something when the voices dont match up. I figure this is the worst dubbing since the movie akira. This dubbing is nothing compared to a master piece like yu gi oh or pokemon. I would say that the only way I would watch this dubbed version is if I wasnt fluent in japanesse or if I didnt have the wads of money I have to buy original versions through the rare import distributors in my area. I would say the only thing good about the toonami version is that... With it airing, us hardcore people have the chance to show just how cool we are by bashing an anime that has never aired in america. I mean, this stuff is for us bi-lingual millionaires alone, not the masses of fans who couldnt get ahold of it before cn aired it. Jeez.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i] [B]As for this missile miss, I think America should just come out and say they screwed up, I know it would crucify them and give support to the anti-war people but you have to admit out of the thousands of missiles they have fired only a hand full of people have died. Even though those statistics are no excuse? I don't really care about it, they made a mistake. (Yes I know I would normally be annoyed and rant on about something like this. But hay its war.) [/B][/QUOTE] I would have to disagree. The U.S.A. already acknowledged a mess up that resulted in 2 missiles 30 miles off target landing in Iran... So why would they deny one more screw up. They would admit it if they knew they were responsible for this, and I honestly believe they are not. ... has anyone heard about this...? The Iraqi's using American uniforms? You can purchase the very same uniforms Americans use if you know the distributor... Well a while back there were reports of Iraqi military personel getting ahold of American style BDU's. Now just in the last 2 days, there are reports of Iraqis using these uniforms, getting other normal Iraqi infantry to surrender and then executing the surrendering soldiers. These are still unconfirmed reports, but I just wondered if anyone heard about this also?

I saw the commercial on cn actually... or maybe somewhere else, but I saw it. I also happend to have bought it, and although it had just about every charactor from chibi gokou to ss3 gotenks, it was still only ok for the price... That said, I want to mention that it was solely an import at the time and was over 60 dollars. That price will go down considerably. I returned mine and got a full refund, but with the game coming out again... if it is playable on an american console this time... I just might have to try it out again and see what it holds instore for the hardend db fool such as myself. Hope you guys enjoy it, but remember that it is a game based around old ps one tech and its not a graphical wonder... however, it is an awesome game charactor wise. I would rather have this game to play with an american ps than the new 3d fighter bodikai or whatever the name is.

NO! sith you are wrong. America supplied botcholism and anatrax to the University of bahgdad for research. The gases used were a mixture of seron, vx and anthrax. Get your stuff straight. Btw, the string of antrax given to bahgdad univ. was the aimes iowa strain, which coniencedentally was the same strain used in the antrax letters that followed 9/11, but Im sure you already knew that.:whoops:

Well, now it is getting really interesting... Trigun. Scheduled for March 31st... a monday. I guess cn is getting the point. We want everything they can give us and we want as much as possible. I am looking forward to getting this stuff on tape, as I happen to record just about everything. I will be back, but for now, we are just gonna have to wait and see how it turns out. I sure am happy we have all these great shows like inu yasha and kenshin for me to record and "live off of." Talk to you guys as soon as I hear some more.

I think cloricus has a legtimate point. However, I believe that torture and rape, along with fascism makes for a country that restricts freedoms to choose your life style more than any outside country ever could. America does not ask that the Iraqi's adopt a lifestyle different from thier own desires... we just want to give the majority of Iraqis the option to live as they wish with out Saddam's constant threat. The threat that Saddam posses is to more of the worlds population than anyone can estimate. Not because of some sort of ideals saddam carries, but because of his style of ruling. Saddam is the sort who will use a friend to any advantage he can, and then turn on that very same person as soon as it is expediant for him to do so. The war effort in Iraq is such a complicated scenerio that most of us will never agree. With complexities that can span an entire life time of debate, it would never be expected that any two people come to a common point of view. So with all that said, I guess it is time to sum up my point... I believe in the possibility that Americans are fighting for the betterment of Iraq, and I believe in the possibility that Iraqis will appreciate that effort.

Just wanted to throw down some facts related to the war... 1. the downed apache pilots are captured by Iraqi authorities. 2. the apache has been destroyed. 3. the "live and historic" speech by saddam was aired. This tape had 57 edits in it where the film was cut (not too live if you ask me) And in the tape saddam praises the 51st infantry of the Iraqi army, whom, if you have been keeping up on the news, surrendered to American forces roughly 5 days ago. So I dont know what to think of the tape. The estimate of when the 51st surrendered (although I know it was several days ago) could be inaccurate. But the rest is pretty accurate.

Indeed, this is a beg step, but it is sorta a step in the direction of catching up. Indy films win awards all the time and have a similar loyal audience size. So I would say this is more of a reflection of where anime has already gotten in America. Almost all of the popular American aired cartoons have anime influence, so it is really just a cool thing to see that people are gonna get the chance to check out one of our loves. (our, being us at the otaku) I just hope this brings the sort of popularity to the genre that other movies get when they recieve oscars or whatever this award was. Glad to hear this happend and I hope it happens again... Then again, this also could be the start of a major trend. If Anime producers recognize that the American awards academies are willing to recognize anime as the art it is, this could result in an increase in the number of anime films being directed at american audiences and inturn would have a major affect on the market for anime. It could also affect the "sub culture" of devoted otakus who could quite possibly be alienated by the growth. (as seen with any televising of less popular anime such as eva or kenshin, although we all knew those shows before cn aired them...) Im just gonna sit back and watch to see what happens... If nothing changes, fine, I will still be here. But if the crap hits the fan and anime blows up... I will be here, only with a whole lot more newbies to pick on. lol.

Alright this is good. We have confirmation that the 5.56 isnt mentioned. I also want to address cloricus directly and say... I will not ever be grouped with you. You put no effort into your post by your own admission, that has nothing to do with me. I rarely flame and I even more rarely speak of things if I dont know anything about them. I speak based on the facts of the situation and if not that... then the opinions I hold based on the history or the current events of the situation. As usual I am slightly insulted by your comments and frankly I find it to be a way for you to not feel so lonely in your world of unrealistic arguments. Keep me out of your groupings and dont bother trying to categorize me, I dont fit your mold and I woulnt fit anything you try to make... I will only fit the molds of people who are honest and independant in the castings they make of me.

Ok, I also want to point out on the 5.56 issue that the 5.56 wasnt even in use during the time of the geneva convention. Another point to be made is that America is not denying responsibility for anything, I am not an official press release... I was just defending and pointing out the difference between an honest friendly fire incident and a problem with a computer operated missile detection system reacting to an airborne signal precieved as a threat. I also want to point out that I am getting really tired of the fact that it is ok to flame me and not anyone else. anyway, Im about to go to work, so you guys are gonna get about 5 hours of undisputed time to write what ever you want with no gokents around to contest it. Keep this in mind and use the time wisely. See ya when I get back...

I hate to tell you sith, but that only applies to "soft lead" bullets and it should also be noted that the majority of signators to the geneva convention are the very same people who use the 5.56 round. Germany, france, britian and america all use the 5.56, and those are just for starters, there are plenty of others that carry the 5.56. Plus if your so darn good with this stuff, could you do a search or something and find me what article of the geneva convention specifically out laws the 5.56 round.

Im loving you guys... Im not sure, but stuck up snob republican stuff might be flaming, although there is no need for anyone to stick up for republicans, only democrates need the fairness of no personal insults. As I found out first hand when I flamed a lefty and got mauled over it. I still stick by what I say about the democrate arguments being led by sith amongst others... I do believe it does a good job of misrepresenting the majority of the party or it does a good job of showing the true colors of the party... either way, I would say it has a negative effect. Also, half of this has turned into a discussion about whether bush won florida and the other half is friendly fire and fragging... Where to begin? I actually dont even really know where to begin becuase half of it has nothing to do with the situation in Iraq. The bush v gore thing was a supreme court case, judged by a panel of 5 democrates and 4 republicans. So you guys can argue all you want about bush v gore, but just take it some where else. I also gotta mention that I love the traditional style cloricus where he stated... "wow, 10 pages... but since Im sure it was mostly gokents, I woulnt read it." Thats just the perfect example of what these debates are really about. No need for the otherside, just spit out your opinion and jump on the first sentence you dont like. That is also the case with cloricus mentioning "what does that make all muslims bad now"? I guess you guys could say that if you want, but I sure as hell didnt say that. About fragging, yes, I know that happend and quite often too. That still has nothing to do with me reporting that it happend just the other day. Now, to get back on topic... I have noticed a new trend developing amongst the Iraqis. This would be fake surrender. In atleast one place the soldiers have put up white flags and then tried to ambush the soldiers responding to it. Another trick that has occured is the welcoming of American troops by Iraqi soldiers in civilian clothes and then the ambush. Its a dirty trick, but like they say, all is fair in love and war. (although I dont really believe in that philosophy.) I also want to mention the video Mei mentioned... This thing is supposed to be pretty bad and from what I understand, the people taken prisoner were REMF that are a matainance crew who got caught off gaurd by Iraqis who ducked out when the main force came through and then ambushed these people working on a vehicle. Allegedly one of the people is a woman and several of the people were killed execution style already. The video shows Iraqis playing with the bodies and interrogating prisoners. This is a direct violation of article 13 of the geneva convention. (the public usage and display of p.o.w.'s) That is why al jezera has stopped airing it... pentagon threats always carry wieght when you are in the wrong and the world will recognize the pentagon is right. I also want to address the british fighter shot down: it was shot down by an anti-missile system. Not an american soldier doing his job the wrong way or anything like that. On a side note: Ive had about enough of this humanitarian crap... Im ready to support a full on nasty assualt of Iraq with no regard to human rights or the geneva convention. I would like to see the world stand in awe as we show them just how bad the U.S. could really be. (and Im sure that makes plenty of you happy to hear, as it gives you "ammo" to make America or myself look like warmongers (god I love that word) and the violators of human rights.) This nasty war effort would also include the siezure of all U.N. food supplies, which feed 60% of Iraq. I would also suggest the use of the E bomb and the MOAB. these suckers need to be destroyed because I am tired of america being the only country to play by the rules besides a few others like the aussies and the brits. (although I am seriously being taken over with anti aussie sentiment due to the general austraillian view of america... well represented by the number one player in political threads on the boards, no not james, but cloricus of course.) Of course this last part is just frustration speaking and not reason.

Yea, the dictator known as bush is just another one of these comments that supports my common theory that it is better to have my political adversaries wasting their time with ideas like "oil and dictatorship in America" than it is to have them put up formidable and intellectually stimulating arguments. Sith, you do more damage to the title "democrate" than any republican could ever do. dictatorships, oil...this stuff is brilliant. I was just wondering if I have mentioned yet that a soldier in the army is suspected of putting grenades in his commanding officers tents... There were 15 injured and 1 killed. It is also preliminary, but the suspected soldier has been arrested. Also preliminary is reports that the soldier who is suspected is a muslim american. I guess things can always take a turn for the worse. However, I want to mention that the "shock and awe" strategy has officially begun. This is going to be where the crap really hits the fan... especially if the stuff we have seen so far was not anything big in comparison to the things to come.

I really believe that if al gore was president and doing this, there would be not even half of this protesting. I honestly believe that this is all about protesting president bush and not the war. Protesting the war is just "a cover story."

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Justin [/i] [B]Pressure, if we don't have the right to free an oppressed people, who does? Did France have the right to aid us against Britain in the Revolution? I'm not a warmonger. I think war is horrible; but I also understand that, unfortunately, war is a necessary thing. History is the greatest teacher. -Justin [/B][/QUOTE] Your first point is an excellent one that I had not seen made yet to date. Thank you for making such a perfectly relevant argument. Second off, Your second point is also a perfect point, but this time, the comment has been made a dozen times. How many times will people have to say this before others understand that no one likes war. In the simplest terms I can put it... War is like taking out the trash, no one likes to do it, but if you dont do it, eventually your gonna be in a far worse scenerio than you would have been had you taken out the trash. The ideas of a better world and a more peacful humanitarian society are not possible without facing the dark elements of the world and eleminating them. I also gotta ask if any of you have seen this new system of a down video my brother caught and then made me watch? It is a perfect example of how bad things can be when celebrities are respected as politcal, educated and intelligent figures. ================================ I also wanted to mention that the 4 marines reported as being killed were not killed and infact all four are alive, only injured. (these were not the marines on the doomed helicopter.) The situation boils down to the fact that a reporter saw the vehicle get hit and then reported that all four died, when infact there was no verification of it and the reporter was just shooting off his worst fears.

Indeed, dropping lupin and keeping reign to make room for a good show is like... Well, I cant come up with a good similie right now, but the point is, that is a stupid choice. I mean, riegn is nothing worthy of air time imo, and lupin, although it isn't the greatest is a show that once again gives us an idea of where the cartoon/anime industry is coming from. (as well as showing a show that isn't all that bad) So although I am glad trigun is coming to us, I am seriously dissapointed that they will be keeping riegn any longer. They should actually think about removing riegn and putting up another show... maybe getting the rights to some more of those robo shows like nadesico or eva. but hey, cn can never please us all, so I will take what I can get.

I just came back to mention that I am slowly walking around more and more everyday thinking about this show. Its got so much appeal in several different areas that it is hard for me to imagine the reasons why this show wasnt brought to the american t.v. market sooner. I am really starting to love cn for the fact that they show anime. Regardless of what you all think of dubbing or editing, I just love the fact, that I am getting to see anime I wouldnt get to see otherwise. Go ahead and bash cn if you want or me for that matter, but I can say this... I would never deny any of you the chance to watch a new show, and with cn, thats exactly what I get... the chance to watch new, exciting, humorous and dramatic shows.

I now know based on gokou's own admission that he, in ss3, could have beaten the fat buu. He also is now in my opinion the strongest fighter in the series besides Vegeto and Gogeta. He was able to hang with super gotenks buu and even fight it out with kid buu who is the strongest buu of them all. Gohan, the closest in power to gokou, reached his limit after gotenks was obsorbed by buu. (which btw, still wasnt a buu as strong as kid buu) So with gohan stronger than gotenks in mystic form and gokou in ss3 form being stronger than mystic gohan, there is nothing left to compare gokou to besides gogeta and vegeto. ======================================== I just got the chance to watch todays episode and have now found out that by gokous own admission, he could have beat kid buu. Plus, I want to mention that if it was purely based on power levels and not abilities, as in regeneration and all that crap buu can do... Gokou would be far more powerful than buu and vegeta would even be a formidable foe to kid buu. With every match up between these guys, buu and vegeta or gokou and vegeta, buu gets beat down and then uses some crap abilites to take the upper hand. Both vegeta and gokou are amazing and, frankly vegeta might even be more powerful than gotenks. I cant tell for sure... But remember that levels of super saiyan are representitive of the form and not the power. Gotenks only got to go ss3 after learning how, not due to his own gross power levels. Look at mystic gohan, he gets more power than gotenks with no super saiyan transformation at all. So it is fully possible that ss2 vegeta acheives a higher power than gotenks. Also if you think about it... vegeta was even strong enough to kill fat buu, only, fat buu got to use those rediculus powers and regenerated from the blast that would have killed any other person. So I guess my point is that I am truely impressed with vegeta, as seen with my other post just made, and also very impressed with gokou. The sayians are amazing... all of them.

I just wanted to bring this back because I remembered it and knew it would serve as a good thread to get across my point. Just yesterday they (cn) showed vegetas respect. It was a great episode to see vegeta finally come to terms with the fact that gokou is the the greatest fighter in the universe. Im also gonna find another thread that gets to another point I have to make about power levels... Lets hope its still around so I dont have to start a new thread.

This is quite a shock to me. Hopefully they will show these kid buu eps a couple more times before they scrap them... And maybe if they are smart they will do a best of series.

I didnt say that israel hadn't killed innocents... however I did say specifically that the palestinians purposfully directed attacks at innocents. For the most part... (notice that I acknowledge the possible individual israeli killings innocents on purpose) the israeli government directs attacks at leaders of militant groups and terrorist. You can not deny that. Israel conducts itself as a nation with specific goals for its hostilities... those are to eleminate threats from terrorist or miltants... Palestinian extremist direct attacks specifically at civialians. One group is targeting legitimate targets with a possible "colateral death" and the other group is directly targeting civilians.

Well for me its a pretty simple thing... As long as Palestinians are willing to kill innocents with the intention of destroying innocent people I can not support their pleas. If this behaviour was to cease completly and totally, I would support the diplomatic resolution of these two peoples by means of their own terms with no outside intervention. American people should not be involved in this dispute because we will never be able to fully understand the true nature of the problem. Half of the problem in based on legitimate reasons and half is based on arab persecution of the jews. The fact is... In 1948 arabs waged war on Isreal after the jews gained independance, and then again waged war on Isreal in 1974. Both times Isreal defeated the Arab coalitions who took an offensive stance in unsuccessful campaigns. With defeat and demoralization (defeat by one nation in a war against 6 arab nations is pretty embarrassing) it is hard for Americans to understand the underlying hate that exist for the jewish nation of Isreal. One solution that could be availible right now is the allowance of refugee imigration into egypt and jordan. However, those nations will not allow that because their goal is to obtain the land in isreal and not actually further the prosperity of their "oppressed" brothers. This situation in isreal is far too complex for me or anyone else to fix, yet it is not that hard for us to offer solutions that COULD work. The thing is, for a solution to work, BOTH parties must unconditionally accept the terms of the agrement.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Orien_Xel [/i] [B][color=blue]I believe DouMax was referring to the Imperialistic tendencys (conquering other countries, etc.) Not to atrocities commited. (Although we do train terrorists at the School of the Americas to support American puppet regimes in Centeral and Southern AMerica) Once again, thats my ranting for now...[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] Once again I see no comparison. I look at Afghanistan and see groups of ethniticities all joining again as one nation who are now capable of ruling themselves without an oppressive reigme. This is the same with Iraq. We are not persuing Imperialistic ideals... We are giving the country back to the people it truely belongs to. Imperialism does not include freeing people from their oppressive leader and then giving the country back to its oppressed inhabitants. That is liberation, not explotation. ------------------------------------ I also want to remind all of you here on the "otaku" boards that Japan is also taking part in the coalition of the willing. (not that you would really care about that... just an interesting side note.)

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DuoMax [/i] [B]I compare USA and England to germany and Itay in WW2. I mean, after iraq, whos next? Iran, North korea, Syria, France, Germany, Canada, china? his hole war buisness really sucks. [/B][/QUOTE] I still can't believe you people are defending a person who said this. Can you honestly tell me that I am calling you ignorant for oppossing the war? Hell no, Im calling people ignorant for supportting this specific statment. This is just garbage and you should all really think about where you stand as intellectuals if you can't establish the obvious (atleast to me) difference between the two groups in this comparison. Ignorance is not established by my statment declaring one of you is ignorant... Ignorance is established by saying things that the intelligent and independant thinkers of the community percieve to be ignorant. We will see with time on this one, but I am sure that this statment was ignorant and totally lacking of intellectual value. I also want to say that I am quite suprised by veggeto 4 supportting such a statment. I was under the impression you, veggeto, were more reasonable than to support the view that the liberating army of america is comparable to the Nazi Germany war machine. I am confident that even my most vocal and well spoken opposition, trans nerve, will be able to see the rediculus nature of this statment. (of course, you never know, I just might be wrong about him too:whoops: )