VinceValentine Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Hi ppl, I just want to point out the fact that homosexuality in RPGs etc. is very very rare.... I would love to see a game with 2 characters that are gay together, I think that having a gay content in a Squaresoft game would be great. I wouldn't have to be a main storyline, but having some gay relationships would be better than just the same old boy meets girl, boy likes girl, girl likes boy, smooch smooch, the end. It would be cool if they put a couple of pooofs or dykes in there and have some hot gay action..... The closest to homosexuality that i have seen in an RPG would have to be Squall, but then he liked rinoa in the end... its just a thought (note: I am not a homosexual, nor am i a homophobe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steiner Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 i would like to see that aswell i reckon it would some characters more personality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidargh Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 [SIZE=1][COLOR=darkblue] I think we are all forgetting the detail in the classic Final Fantasy games. Just think back to the Final Fantasy Seven. It is the event of infiltration, and your destination is Don Corneo's Mansion. Have I made you feel nostalgic yet? Well, part of this whole event is in the Honey Bee Inn. You can perfectly find a gay man or perhaps men trying to move Cloud over in the jacuzzi? [spoiler] It is the part where you are trying to relax and an entire posse of men dressed in Spandex enter and join your jacuzzi. From this you are given several options, and of this you are given an item depending on the choice.[/spoiler] In my opinion, that contains a gay context.[/COLOR][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceValentine Posted May 10, 2003 Author Share Posted May 10, 2003 Yes but i would really like to see gay relationships develop, in detail.. maybe including one of the main characters and show in detail the relationship (not sex) and how homosexuals are not accepted in society.. maybe.. its just an idea.... i dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidargh Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 [SIZE=1][COLOR=darkblue] I respect that view completely, do not worry. And I am in no way homophobic seeing as someone very close to me is gay. But let us face it, you find the immature public in this world and it's going to leave Square Enix with a hell of a lot of hate mail. Do you see where I am coming from? I am sure Square Enix have considered this aswell. Another question that may erupt is, ''Why not have a lesbian relationship?'' I find that this is the main appeal to gamers, for example, another game being [i]Fear Effect Two[/I]. I cannot understand why people can find lesbian relationships in games appealing and gay relationships not. Of course we would all like to see a detail of a gay relationship, but Square Enix must consider sales aswell. It is a cruel world. But, excluding Yuna, Final Fantasy X-2 may behold a special type of relationship in there ^_^. We'll just have to find out for ourselves.[/COLOR][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceValentine Posted May 10, 2003 Author Share Posted May 10, 2003 Yea that is a really good point, i should have thought of that... hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidargh Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by VinceValentine [/i] [B]Yea that is a really good point, i should have thought of that... hehe [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=darkblue] Do not worry about it. The fact of the matter is that we just dont know. Sure we can hope, or even make suggestions to Square Enix, but from the downfall of profit loss due Final Fantasy XI, I just cannot see Square wanting to make another sales loss at all. Well, we'll have to see what the Moderators determine what is left of discussion in this thread.[/COLOR][/SIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I believe that Square has already allowed for the issue, still of which FF7 is most prominent. They are simply being passive vs. presenting it full to light and having the American/English audience lop their economical heads off with a hypocritcal executioner's axe. Fandom has presented many many and MANY examples of yaoi and yuri throughout all the games--if one character so much as even [i]looks[/i] at another, that's reason enough to go at it. >.< That being the most extreme example, there are also examples that make you stop, think, and wonder, hey, was this really going on and I was not aware of it? I recently (and accidentally, I might add) stumbled across a site about the relationship between Sephiroth, Zak, and Cloud. There is extremely strong thoughts that Zak and Cloud had something going on (experienced guy leading the innocent rookie), and I've seen countless story summaries of FF7 fanfics that have resurrected Sephiroth going after Cloud time and again. Considering Cloud's nature, his inability (it seems) to show love to either Aeris or Tifa, but crumpling at the first sigh of Seph, the first thought of Zak...makes you wonder, nei? (People have also brought up the Braska/Auron/Jecht issue in relation to the Sephiroth/Zak/Cloud issue, but all supporters of that are promptly exploded into tiny bits, since Auron is MINE! *crazed fanatic, baw ha ha*) Trust me, Japan is a lot more open that we are. There's probably more going on in the original versions that are editted out when they get to us. So as far as how homosexuals are treated in society--that would be something that America will have to develop, and since it falsely prides itself on being religious and open at the same time, I don't see that happening any time soon. Kweh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zeh Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 [size=1]I'm thinking the same as Zidane and Gin here. Maybe Square would have a lot more homosexuality going on, if the fans wanted it. I know a whole slew of people who would just totally give up playing Final Fanatsy if it was incorporated with gayness. It would displease a lot of the fans. Sure, there's a few of you who want it, but the majority is against it... Squaresoft want's their fans to be happy.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 As far as homosexuality goes, I'm against the deed, not the person. That in itself could make for a very strong and passionate theme, along the same lines of heroes that spend entire video games seeking retribution or redemption for their deeds. Homosexuality is a delicate subject. As such, using it blatantly would generate a lot of criticism: first from the people who would be against it completely, then the less common but ever present "You represented homosexuals all wrong!" type people. They are out there--trust me. For now, being subtle is a good choice. I've seen people on these boards suggest using homosexual or handicapped characters for anything from Pokémon to Final Fantasy to who knows what else. The fact of the matter is, this isn't prime time television. Something to consider is, does the subject fit into the overall game theme? Is the subject appropriate for the target groups (in FF's case, I would hope that people are mature enough to deal with such subjects)? Should a whole game be written completely around this subject, where it has been sidelined as a tiny hint in the shadows for past games? Money talks, so the biggest thing is--for the programmers and directors and such--will I lose money over this, or will I get it? It's a fine line. Which is why us programming/game animating types *bounces up and down waving hand frantically* need to keep aspiring. Yesh. Kweh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Majin Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 What the heck!?!?! is this post about i wouldn't even go near a game with Homo's in it i would be so disappointed in Square soft and if they put a gay couple in the great Final fantasy series and if anyone is gonna call me a homo-phobe well....of course i m!! it's the worst sin and im not even christian but god created Adam and eve not adam and Steve.....well i got the off my back [color=003399][size=1]Sure we allow free expression of thoughts, but try not to offend anyone please. If you don't think it's a good idea by all means say so, but be a bit more mature next time. - [b]Zeh[/b][/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duo Maxwell Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I'd love to see a game with a gay couple, but I agree with Ginny that it won't be appreciated by a lot of people that's why the homosexual hints are safe. I [b]think[/b] in FFV there was some gay characters, I can't remember cause I'm only going by what a freind told me and I have a shoddy memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Tehee, I read from some tips that in FF7, if Cloud doesn't speak with Aeris OR Tifa more than it is obligatory, he will go out on a date with BARRET in Gold Saucer (instead of Aeris). :p But by all means, only few things make a character more interesting than a personal sexuality. I trust that in the future we WILL see such things, maybe even in FF-series, and not just for a laugh. ;) About what Ginny said about Japan and openess, I doubt that. Japan is as conservatist country as the US. Maybe it's just the fact that the game designers are a strange bunch of people... :smirk: Just wait for the future, homophobes! :toothy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krillen Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 [QUOTE]It is the part where you are trying to relax and an entire posse of men dressed in Spandex enter and join your jacuzzi. From this you are given several options, and of this you are given an item depending on the choice.[/QUOTE] Im just curious. What were the choices that you were given? [size=1][color=crimson]Keep on topic, boyo. -[b]Break[/b][/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I'm not a yaoi fan and I personally think it's stupid. Call me closeminded as much as you want: I believe that homosexual leanings are a sorrowful affliction and that the acts are sin. Nevertheless, I consider the implied relationships and "hints" at that sort of thing, and you're all missing a really big one. The Honey Bee Inn in FFVII was one that was really there. I'm not sure about CloudxZack/Sephiroth-that sounds like the Gundam Wing rumors. Just because a male character isn't interested in women doesn't necessarily mean he's interested in men either. . . What I'm talking about was in FFIX. First time in Madain Sari, the night scene, Zidane and Vivi. They were offscreen, but the text boxes implied some [i]serious[/i] shonen ai going on between them. O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 O_O I never got that sense when I played through either time, but now...meepers, methinks I need to get ahold of a transcript for that game. IMO, Vivi's far too innocent to understand the concept of "sex" or anything else similar to it, so the notion of him and anyone else is beyond bizarre and foreign to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 It may be beyond bizarre and foreign. . .but I'm sure that was what they were doing there. Maybe I'm wrong: I have been before, but I'm almost certain they were engaging in a form of homosexuality. O.o is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I believe this is the scene you mean. Where it's after dinner, and Zidane and Vivi are talking quietly to each other, while Eiko eavesdrops. [quote][i][size=1]Taken from [url=http://ffwa.org/ff9/index.html]Final Fantasy:Worlds Apart Scripts[/url].[/size][/i] [b]Zidane[/b] "You wanna know a trick to get your mind off things?" [b]Eiko[/b] "Okay." [b]Zidane[/b] "This is an age-old ritual between male friends!" [b]Eiko[/b] "Uh-huh." [b]Zidane[/b] "Come over here, Vivi. Let's go together." "Doesn't it feel nice to let yourself go under the stars?" [b]Eiko[/b] "......" [Eiko stands up, shakes her head, and runs out of the kitchen] [/quote] I'm going to make some assumptions here, since I don't know Japanese cultured too well, but I always saw Zidane (and to a similar extent, Tidus, but he isn't in this particular discussion) as an "American". Someone who isn't as caught up in Japanese tradition as the rest of the characters. Therefore, he is sharing some traditions not commonly know (again, I do not know if the Japanese do this or not). A form of male bonding (and why, I honestly don't know) is to find some out of the way spot and just, well...:blush:...take a whiz together. Not intimate in the sexual way, but intimate in the "hey, we're all human and real" way, which is what Zidane was most likely, ultimately trying to show Vivi--that Vivi is real, with emotions, and eve if he isn't human, he's still alive, and that is what counts. The strongest hints for this are the and Eiko running off (though that could be taken another way, but her sake, we'll make her an innocent). The whole thought of my crush with his best buddy taking a whiz (unknowingly) in front of me is enough to send me running, so...*grin*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Hmm, yes, that's one way of interpreting it, but that same activity is also a common one in a yaoi context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 [color=crimson]*takes a piss with Vivi* --- Well I think it would provide an interesting theme for Squaresoft to attempt- but maybe not too soon, the [western] world might not be prepared for something that extensive. Stores might boycott it and such nonsense as that just for having homosexual [main] characters- It might even get a rating that would keep it out of the general 18 and under audiences hands, which is absurd considering most 11 year olds cuss more than a rated T for Teen game. It is a good concept- but maybe its still [culturally] ahead of its time.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krillen Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Yah, that was deffinately no homesexuality going on. Zidane and Vivi were male bonding, just peeing off a cliff thats all. And people.........I know relationships between different races is very common. But........a Black Mage and a Human/Monkey? I would not wanna see that show in the circus. Hahah.......actually, it would be cool to see a Black Mage, they are so nifty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkand Abes Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I believe that a gay relationship would ruin the game. It seems obsurd to me and a pointless inclusion to a game and it would probably force the parental rating to be increased. Thus meaning fewer age groups could buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Good post Zanarkand. It [i]would[/i] be pointless and absurd. When I assumed Zidane and Vivi were, you know, that really annoyed me. I hope they leave homosexuality out of it or at the hints rather than as a plotline, and I also hope they can pull out of the fanservice tailspin they seem to be caught up in what with the new outfits for Rikku and Yuna among others. Once a series becomes focused on fanservice, it loses most of what makes it stand out, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I dare to disagree. Just because the game has a gay-couple, that doesn't mean it would suddenly become more sexual, not to mention lift up parental rating! Believe it or not, even gay-romance can be beautiful. :therock: And it wouldn't be pointless if they didn't MAKE it pointless! All ff-games have love-stories, and does anybody call THEM pointless? With two men or women it would be the same thing! As I said, it would bring a character much more personality. It wouldn't have to be the main point in the game, but just a little extra spice. C'mon people, why do you have to be so prejudiced? We're all human beings! :( Bleh, this just makes me sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Well, Sage, the thing is, homosexuals and their romantic relationships have not always been portrayed in the best light. I was eating my lunch just today, and my dad was flipping through the channels. He stumbled on this one TV14 movie, and, well, the gays were shown to be less than desirable people. Time and again, everytime I am exposed to anything that shows homosexual relationships, that's what happens--they are shown to be less than desirable people. Where society is tripping up is grouping the person with the act--the act is bad, therefore the person is bad. WRONG. Again, my personal belief is that the act is wrong, but the person is not. I can respect the person, just not that choice of lifestyle. If most people are locked into the mindset that I have grown up with, then they will feel the same way as me--if society's movies are any indication of their approach to this topic, then they need to mature in their approach before they can seriously think about putting gays in as the front running character. Otherwise, it's completely pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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