Flaws in Education

[Pagan]

Does anyone every wonder if you are actually learning about a subject or the teachers view about a subject? I find that most people recieve a biased education; that makes one group of people seem better then another. Since I'm an American, I feel that we tend to build overselves up higher then we actually are. I remember hearing my history teacher constantly says,"We are living in the greatest nation under the sun!" I know this is merely his opinion but then I find myself believing it.

We also don't recieve information at all. My teacher completely avoided Vietnam and Korea. He has stayed away from America's losses and stays completely focuses on their victories. I kind of understand his reasoning, him being a ex Major and very proud of his nation, but I don't think he should be teaching from the Amercian view only.

Either we don't learn material at all or we learn pulluted material.

Anyways I have a question for all of the foriegn otaku memeber, and whenIi mean foreign I mean none American. Do you learn different stuff then we do here in America? By different I mean; for example, In the Revoluationary War it was America fighting for its independence against the tyrany of Britain, but what I want to know is your story any different?

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='Hells Fire']My teacher completely avoided Vietnam and Korea.[/quote]

I'm always surprised when I hear this, as it isn't the first time. During my sophomore year, we spent a LOT of time covering Vietnam. As in, 6+ weeks. We studied Korea as well, but not near to the extent of Vietnam.

[Ryu_Sakura]

Yeah, and also for the past let's see... 5 years I have been learnig and realerning all the parts of the Civil War and the Revolutionary War. My teacher isn't biased, she's just so insanse she can make a major loos seem like nothing. Using her jokes I mean.

Yes, as americans we tend to feel biased to our wins, not our losses. In my school you only learn about american until you reach High School, not Jr. High, High School. It is so boring, and then they tell us information we already learnd is friggan' inacurate, give it to us right the first time! And what's more, the little kids learn the same stuff we did, and then get told the same thing. Stupid, Stupid confused goverment.

[James]

[color=#707875]I think that America is probably famous for being very insular. Part of it is cultural and part of it is a result of circumstance. I've said it before, but...when you are the richest nation on Earth, people tend to come to you, rather than you going to them. So there isn't a [i]need [/i]for America to know much about the rest of the world (although that has changed out of necessity, due to terrorism).

I would say that if you are an American living in America...you cannot possibly understand what it's like to live in another country, where your own country isn't a superpower. It really does have an affect on every aspect of people's lives, from culture to politics.

I wouldn't say that it's a bad thing though. Yes, there are negatives. With the signing of a document, a US President can instantly kill off hundreds of industries worldwide, simply by changing US trade legislation. Of course, this doesn't happen very often because there's a counter balance there, as the United States relies heavily on exports. But that's kind of getting off the point.

In terms of education specifically, I know that this is one area where America falls behind many other countries. Part of it might be related to bias, I don't know. I'm sure that it's a combination of factors, including bias and culture.

When you are living in a country with less overall power, it obviously pays for you to be educated on the rest of the globe. From a practical standpoint, it makes sense. The smaller you are, the harder you have to fight, in order to keep your head above water on the international scene (in terms of economy and so on). People won't come to you, you have to go to them.

So I would say that much of it simply relates to the circumstances of the time. If the United States were suddenly much poorer, or much smaller in general, this would obviously fundamentally change the way kids are educated and the every day focus of business and public policy.

One thing I like about Australia is that this country has the highest per capita living standards on the planet. But at the same time, we're not so large that we become completely insular and disinsterested in the goings on of the world. Because of our relative size, we experience both ends of the spectrum.

On the one hand, Australia is the 14th richest nation in the world (despite having a population of only 20 million). So per capita, we're obviously a very rich country. And on a regional level, Australia is a superpower without question. We have more money than any country in the pacific rim and we have more money and miilitary power than many pacific rim and even north asian countries. So, regionally, we tend to "get our way", so to speak.

But when you start talking about the EU and the US, Australia is a lot smaller in relative terms. Because of that, the whole landscape changes for us.

So of course, all of this affects education and the economy.

Of course, I don't think that the status quo is necessarily healthy...regardless how powerful the United States is, it's obviously beneficial for American kids to learn about the rich and beautiful world that they live in. From what I [i]do [/i]know about American education, very little is really touched on in this regard. And that's a shame, because it's like going through life wearing blinkers.

So specific to education, there is definitely an imbalance there.

But the difference between myself and others from my country (you know who you are), is that I don't use any of this stuff to attack America. There's no point, really. I don't have some kind of ego to stroke and I am not under any illusion that one nation is "better" than another. It just doesn't work like that. There has to be a historical perspective, to understand why things are as they are and how they developed that way.

And generally, I have a positive view of the world. Americans are no different to Australians or anyone else, in terms of their goals and aspirations and desires. We're all human beings, afterall. And that's what counts.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE=Ryu_Sakura]
Yes, as americans we tend to feel biased to our wins, not our losses.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure other countries are always highlighting their losses.

[James]

[quote name='wrist cutter']I'm sure other countries are always highlighting their losses.[/quote]
[color=#707875]That's an important point. Patriotism certainly isn't exclusive to the United States, even though the US is often seen as being more "flag-waving" than others. It's really a human thing. You rarely see people talking about how poorly they did...people always have a desire to talk about their successes. So it happens on a national level too.[/color]

[Shinken]

As far as the subject of teachers presenting biased information, in my freshmen year, there was a whole lot of that going on in my Global History class. For the first few marking periods, all was well. But as soon as the subject matter turned to teaching us about the major religions of the world, all hell broke loose (no pun intended). My teacher (poor guy, retired early because of horrible back problems) was an extremely devout Catholic. He was a very nice guy and all, but when it came to teaching us about anything other than Catholicism (coincidentally the largest religion we covered), he tended to describe it like one would a childhood fairy tale. Especially when it came to Buddhism. He went completely off-the-wall on that one. He was constantly cracking jokes about it, while teaching it. Even though he did give us all the facts, he was obviously biased about it. At least he wasn't bitter or anything...

[AzureWolf]

[font=Georgia][color=blue]As Hells Fire's post points out, and as James' post implies, the bias in the educational system is really [i][b]only[/b][/i] in history, and, afterall, "History is written by the winners." Never forget the strong distinction between "the past" and "history."[/color][/font]

[Icemaiden]

Well even though i am american, i ended up going to school in a foreign country. No not Canada. I went as far as I could before I started heading back New Zealand. And we did a in depth focus on the vietnam war my junior year. It is easier to study something when it dosent directly effect you. The real problem with education is everything social or historical is based on opinion. Even if you were there how you have been brought up or what you have learned will effect what is happening right in fornt of you.

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Actually, you should wait until you get to college. A great deal of college professors have views that are definatly left of center, and from what some of my friends have told me, they won't hesitate to share them with you.

However, it's good that you're questioning what you're told, and trying to understand the reasoning that's caused them to teach this way. Although most teachers will stress independent thought, you'll meet many whose definition of "Independent thought" is, "Whatever conforms to what I'm teaching."[/color][/size][/font]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]So you guys *do* call it "The Revolutionary War"! Ahaha...

History classes are bound to be biased. Sometimes, it's hard to tell in who's favour. One minute it's "Britain is great, Britain is good!" The next it's all, "Vive le France!" Aiya. We never get very far in history class. We just recently began WW2. It seems they are more interested in making us design "concept posters" than actually discussing the material.
I guess you don't have the whole France-Britain thing in the states, but seeing as you asked, yes, I do think our text books are biased.

They are written from a British point of view as far as the War of 1812 goes, but seeing as I don't pay much attention in history class--_ _U--the only thing I remember is reading about how people were tarred and feathered for not creating upheavel against the Brits. Once again: Aiya. o_o

We spent about a month on Confederation, resulting in every one wondering the same thing: What the hell is the point of 7/8 of this country?! It's frigging EMPTY. Aside from all the crazy people who choose to perpetually freeze their rears off. There's no hope left for them. *shakes head slowly back in forth*
I guess it had something to do with Manifest Destiny, but still...Nunavut has very few practical uses. o.o

I hope that helped in some small way._ _U[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Baron Samedi]

[color=darkred][size=1][quote=Hells Fire]Anyways I have a question for all of the foriegn otaku memeber, and whenIi mean foreign I mean none American. Do you learn different stuff then we do here in America? By different I mean; for example, In the Revoluationary War it was America fighting for its independence against the tyrany of Britain, but what I want to know is your story any different?
[/quote]

Who says we learn about it at all? I know pretty well much F/A about America. What I do know, is what I have picked up.

Most people are more interested in something that is immediately applicable to them, rather than something happening in another country. I know that most of the History related material I have covered is about Australia. Then again, we don't even have a proper 'History' subject here in Australia.

I agree with James. America doesn't really need to know much about the rest of the world... but Australia does. Obviously we aren't learning your history, because why would we care? What matters to us is the modern America.[/color][/size]

[Guest hacker111]

nope school here in amercia is still boring :sleep: history in amercia is a little boring, i don't care who found amercia :laugh: i just sit there in my seat, bored, i did the same thing in china some people gets me pissed off :flaming: :devil: :mad: :eek: not

[Subversive]

[quote name='James][color=#707875']I would say that if you are an American living in America...you cannot possibly understand what it's like to live in another country, where your own country isn't a superpower.[/color][/quote]

Now, Now, James. Australia kicks major ***- (with the help of the super powers) Atleast your country is smart enough to ally with the greatest armies of the world.

...

As for the topic, of course your teacher is teaching they're own opinion. Whether it's subconcious or not, they do. Why do you think a high percentage of college students, who will later become conservative, vote democrat (liberal) in the election years they go to college? It is the college professors liberal views that have influenced them.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]
I would say that if you are an American living in America...you cannot possibly understand what it's like to live in another country, where your own country isn't a superpower. It really does have an affect on every aspect of people's lives, from culture to politics.
[/color][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]Hmmm, I guess I can agree with that statement. I think that the largest difference between American schools and most European (and I assume Australian, though we all know assumption holds little truth) schools is that European schools stress current events quite a bit more than American schools. I really believe that America needs to add cirriculum that stresses both global and local current events.[/color]

[densuke]

[quote name='Hells Fire']Does anyone every wonder if you are actually learning about a subject or the teachers view about a subject? I find that most people recieve a biased education[/quote]
History is all about bias. All historians are biased. This is [i]not a flaw[/i], it's just part of how history gets made. Any time you read anything about history, look up the author's name. Find out when he lived and who he hung out with (in a book it should be right in there, a brief bio of the writer). That will give you some clue as to why it suited him to think the way he did. Even a simple list of schools the writer attended or taught at will tell you things if you look into it.

Regardless of the lack of scale in high-school history in the US, most people can't be bothered to study and remember what little is presented, so I don't think it is any big tragedy.

At college level it is possible to take courses in labor history, urban history, ethnic history, the history of other regions of the world etc. A subject called historiography teaches about how and why histories get made and how bias is introduced. Again, the writers and teachers are biased, but courses like these should broaden and deepen the understanding of those who are interested.

And it is always possible to read books at any time (which many rarely do once out of college), keeping in mind the biases of the author.

[Baron Samedi]

[QUOTE=Subversive]Now, Now, James. Australia kicks major ***- (with the help of the super powers) Atleast your country is smart enough to ally with the greatest armies of the world.

[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]I am just taking the opportunity to state that I [b]really[/b] don't like that quote. To me, it reeks of arrogance. Sure, America's army is [i]good[/i], but if, as you say, America [or their children anyway] doesn't know a lot about the outside world.. how can you state this?

Technologically, America is quite advanced. But I believe Asian armies far outnumber yours. The greatest army? Nay, the greatest bombs is what will win most wars. Which is what America has. Your point may have been correct... it just felt arrogant to me. And what are you saying here?

"At least your country is smart enough to ally..."

Who are you dissing here? We actually [i]had[/i] to ally with you. I believe various treaties are responsible. It was a smart thing to do, but over here many Aussies that I know feel we shouldn't of gone over there.

Whatever. This is kind of off the point.

Something I do wish to add concerning education though... how many occupations are there where you need to write essays? How many where notemaking skills are extensively required? How many where knowing the date of the Civil War is required?

...

I hope someone might of come up with a few jobs. I couldn't. I think a lot more focus should be on practical stuff in schools.

Teach us to balance our funds! Teach us to cook food! Teach us practicalities![/color][/size]

[Subversive]

[quote name='Baron Samedi][COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]Technologically, America is quite advanced. But I believe Asian armies far outnumber yours. The greatest army?...[/color'][/size][/quote]

First of all- I was being cocky. It's one of the things I do pretty well. And if you were thinking greatest as in numbers- you're right. But the United States armed forces spend more money, time, and energy on their soldiers than any other nation in the world. I watch tons of war/armed forces specials, tv shows, read books, view magazines, etc. 99% of them will tell you this- and I started the post with Australia kicks ***.... and they do. I love to see the not-so-super powers in war. When I play video games I avoid everyones favorite character. I ignore main characters and pour my heart into a lesser, in sports games I pick underdogs, when watching I cheer for underdogs. So I may be cocky, but I like a good challenges, and like to see the "little guy" win.

back to the subject

It would be great to "Teach us to balance our funds! Teach us to cook food! Teach us practicalities!" but the current work force doesn't want it... you teach for careers directly- you lose 3-4 good paying years off your job. Some kid from high school takes it, and as long as the education system is run mostly by politicians-- those themselves that want to keep jobs from up-and-comers, or those elected by adults who bring the same viewpoint of delaying the overtake-- it will stay the same.

And as for everyday living skills- public school has strayed more to the "leave no one behind" stance... We now think every kid can ready fluently, all can do calculus, and all should go to college. This is stupid, some people aren't 'college material'. So why don't you bring back balancing a check book into math class and lose the freakin' Sigma Notation?...unless its being used as a complex form of balancing funding...

[James]

[QUOTE=Subversive]Now, Now, James. Australia kicks major ***- (with the help of the super powers) Atleast your country is smart enough to ally with the greatest armies of the world.

[/QUOTE]
[color=#707875]It's just the natural way of things. Australia allies with America and New Zealand allies with Australia. The smaller nation usually allies with the big brother, especially if both countries share similar interests (and somewhat similar cultures).

Australia obviously doesn't have the population to support an enormous military force, but I do know that this country has one of (if not the most) highly trained military on Earth. And the technology's pretty good, too. But again, that's what you need if you're smaller -- otherwise there's kinda no point to having a defence force at all.

As far as teacher influence goes, I know that in one class I'm doing now (where we study the media and its impact on society), my tutor definitely has a viewpoint. At first I thought he was a screaming liberal, but actually, he's quite balanced. He debunks a lot of the conspiracy theories that some of my colleagues hold. lol

The most ironic thing is that many of them distrust the media, yet they admit to never watching the news or reading a newspaper. How can you distrust something that you never look at/consume? I just found that to be incredibly lame. lol[/color]