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Little Girl in Handcuffs


Pagan
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Another Florida story. Does this state ever give it a rest. This story is about a little girl who's learning how to count with jelly beans. Hers are taken away because she is acting foolish, and the little girl doesn't take this well. She starts hitting, biting, and scratching the teacher. She knocks books off the shelves, she tears papers off the wall, and she yells and curses like a bloody sailor. The teacher trys to calm her, but she is relentless, so the teacher send her to the principal. The principal has the girls sit in a room and think about her actions, but the girl continues to scream and cause trouble. The principal calls the mother and tells her to come and pick up her daughter or the cops will. The mother responds, but not fast enough. Three cops(2 female, one who I can't tell) come into the room and place the now irrate girl's hands behind her back and slaps those handcuffs onto her wrist. They then put her into the squad car, but before they can pull off her mother arrives.

I myself feel the little girl deserved it. She was causing a disturbance and had to be removed. They taught this little monster a valueable lesson.
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[SIZE=1]I kind of don't care how old you are ... if you're above the age of three, you know better. If you don't, oh well. That' too bad -- so GO COPS! They should've locked that girl up for a night, and see how she turned out then.

[B]With the other inmates.[/B] Yes.[/SIZE]
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[quote name='Xy GGu']I am starting to feel disgusted about and toward a lot of people lately. No one here being any exception.[/quote]
[SIZE=1]What do you mean "disgusted?" As in you don't like our conduct, or our opinions?

If you don't like my opinions, sorry. If you don't like my conduct, please tell me why, and I'll see if you have any grounds.

I'm guessing you're digusted that I'd want to lock up the girl for the night? I'm surprised you don't agree with me on something like that. I mean, the kid needs to be shown how to act, and not be a complete b**** all the time. Therefore, you have to go to the extreme.

The inmate thing was a [I]joke.[/I] Lighten up, man.

But if you weren't talking about the discussion at hand ... I don't know what to tell you.[/SIZE]
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I think the girl should have been locked up. However for those of you who firmly believe this here are some points that would have to be concisdered for the other point of view (although to be honest I dont really care- though some of you might).

1 She was a young girl and so may not have concidered her actions wrong
2 She could have had mental health problems and needed to take medication for her behaviour
3 She may have a troubled upbringing.

I will mention again that this little brat should be locked up before she grows up to be a crimonal or do drugs. Then again do any of us have the right to judge? (Probably :animesmil )

By the way Xy GGu If your disgusted with us you should say what it is that discusts you and at the very [B]LEAST[/B] post your oppinion on the subject
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Excuse me, but [I]what kind of a sick thread is this?![/I]

Somebody tells a story of a little girl getting arrested because of a nervous breakdown, and bunch of other people write that she should be beaten more often or locked up in a closet? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?!

If the story is from real life, it is apparent that the girl (we don't even know how old she is!) has serious mental problems, maybe she is a child with special needs (like authism or ADHD). If that is the case, she should be in a special class with professional directors (not people who call the cops!). What the teacher and the principal did shows a great ignorance and lack of professionality. I sincerely hope the girl has gotten help by now.

What makes it even worse are [I]you guys[/I]! Xy GGU had a good point, he should've just outspoken it more clearly. Beating and locking up aren't acceptable ways to raise children of any age, and until you realize that I hope you will never have children of your own!

Now some of you maybe thinking "what is he to say those things?". Well, I'm actually studying to become a child and youth worker, plus I went through hell in my own childhood, so I know what those things do to a developing psyche.

People, honestly, THINK before you go shouting your immature opinions! Okay, now [I]I'm[/I] shouting, but only because there are so many levels of [I]wrong[/I] in this thread. Makes me wonder what kind of twisted method of child-raising you support there in Florida... [I]Cops[/I], for life's sake!
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Sage said [QUOTE]Excuse me, but what kind of a sick thread is this?!

Somebody tells a story of a little girl getting arrested because of a nervous breakdown, and bunch of other people write that she should be beaten more often or locked up in a closet? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?!

If the story is from real life, it is apparent that the girl (we don't even know how old she is!) has serious mental problems, maybe she is a child with special needs (like authism or ADHD). If that is the case, she should be in a special class with professional directors (not people who call the cops!). What the teacher and the principal did shows a great ignorance and lack of professionality. I sincerely hope the girl has gotten help by now.

What makes it even worse are you guys! Xy GGU had a good point, he should've just outspoken it more clearly. Beating and locking up aren't acceptable ways to raise children of any age, and until you realize that I hope you will never have children of your own!

Now some of you maybe thinking "what is he to say those things?". Well, I'm actually studying to become a child and youth worker, plus I went through hell in my own childhood, so I know what those things do to a developing psyche.

People, honestly, THINK before you go shouting your immature opinions! Okay, now I'm shouting, but only because there are so many levels of wrong in this thread. Makes me wonder what kind of twisted method of child-raising you support there in Florida... Cops, for life's sake![/QUOTE]

Whoah there. Were not saying she should be locked up in a closet. Where just saying that what she did was wrong and that as she was being violent the police needed to intervine and lock her in a cell (TEMPORARILY) before she seriously hurt someone else. You have raised a very good point that she had mental problems (which I briefly mentioned). However, we (As in everyone but you and Xy GGu ) didnt look at the full picture and i feel i should apologise for my argument (and thank you for bringing this into the light).
As for those who said she should be beaten Im sure they were just joking around and that they wouldnt do this in real life which is why I encourage (not force) them to apologise.
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[size=2]I feel it's appropriate to add a little more information.[/size]

[size=2]1. The little girl said she didn't have a father.[/size]
[size=2]2. The little girl said her mother doesn't love her.[/size]
[size=2]3. The little girl's teacher was mean to her constantly, and she got fed up with it. (not something I'd put past most Florida teachers, from what I've heard)[/size]
[size=2]4. They also handcuffed the little girl's ankles.[/size]
[size=2]5. To clarify, when I say little girl, I mean 5-year old girl.[/size]

[size=2]So, I abhor all you advocates of shackling the child. Not your opinions, I very much dislike [b]you[/b] as a person. The girl [b]does[/b] come from a troubled, single-parent home where she probably isn't shown much affection. The teacher (for whatever reason) had a habit of picking on the little girl, probably because the teacher doesn't like her, and doesn't want to [b]understand[/b] her. She wasn't just handcuffed by the hands, but by the ankles too. That, and she's 5 years old. I wonder what kind of effect this would have on a 5-year old's developing mind. Her dad is gone, her mom doesn't love her, her teacher hates her, and when she can't take anymore, her mom doesn't come get her, and men with guns and uniforms forcibly bind her so she can't move.[/size]

[size=2]You people sicken me.[/size]
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[QUOTE=Sage]Excuse me, but [I]what kind of a sick thread is this?![/I]

Somebody tells a story of a little girl getting arrested because of a nervous breakdown, and bunch of other people write that she should be beaten more often or locked up in a closet? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?!

[/QUOTE]

First person with a ******' bit of intelligence to post in this thread.

[quote name='SJHINJI172']Were not saying she should be locked up in a closet. Where just saying that what she did was wrong and that as she was being violent the police needed to intervine and lock her in a cell [/quote]

The DIFFERENCE?

You want to go and send a little girl to jail scaring the **** out of her? When she's not even old enough to form full ******* sentences? While you're ******* AT IT, DON'T FORGET A ************* TAZER, why don't you? The POLICE needed to intervene?

Oh God, what's next- sending a kid to Death Row for not doing his homework?
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[SIZE=1]While I do think that coming in and slamming some handcuffs on a little kid is wrong, I do think she should have been at least removed from the school. We are, after all, not people to condone misbehaviour but taking her to jail is a little extreme when you look at what perfectly capable adults get away with most of the time.

Obviously something has happened to make the kid act that way and that is what should be looked at and focussed on instead of punishing her so extremely for something that she might not even realise is wrong.

I think the fact that she was swearing shows something in the way that she's been raised. A visit from social services should be what that girl needs.[/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=Adahn][size=2]I feel it's appropriate to add a little more information.[/size]

[size=2]1. The little girl said she didn't have a father.[/size]
[size=2]2. The little girl said her mother doesn't love her.[/size]
[size=2]3. The little girl's teacher was mean to her constantly, and she got fed up with it. (not something I'd put past most Florida teachers, from what I've heard)[/size]
[size=2]4. They also handcuffed the little girl's ankles.[/size]
[size=2]5. To clarify, when I say little girl, I mean 5-year old girl.[/size]
[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=1]Thank you [I]so much [/I] for telling me that before I posted. It really helped to know that while I posted in the first place, in order to have an informed decision.

But really, judging on what Adahn said in his [B]first[/B] post, my opinion stands. I would definitely lock the girl up, or just keep her in cuffs until they managed to subdue her. What should they have done? Just like the little devil run around and break more stuff, and potentially hurt more people? At this point, a "Let's calm down, now" talk wouldnt've sufficed. She was past the breaking point, and the only thing to do then, was to let her rage tire itself out. I believe that the police cuffed her so that she would burn her rage out, and not hurt anyone/thing.

Now, with the NEW information, I can create a different opinion. Locking her up -- I'm not sure about. But I do believe in putting her in a controlled area where she can't hurt anyone or break anything for a while. Perhaps that place would be the back of the cop car, while the cops/teacher tried to calm her down from the other side of the steel fency thing.

We should also take the girl's word for a grain of salt. I believe her saying that her mom doesn't love her, and her father's not there, but what about the teacher? That could have been just a biased outbursted when she was pissed. I mean, when [I]you're[/I] angry at someone, you won't say "She's nice to me!" you'll be more ready to say "******* off!"

But, even if her teacher wasn't mean, but her home-life sucked, it still doesn't permit for her to trash a room. Heck, if that were the case, I'm sure many classrooms across America would need to be fixed up again. [/SIZE]
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When I first posted in this thread, all i thought was that it was a girl being destructive. Now that I know these details I feel like such a $@£&. I dont deserve forgiveness and I just want to say that im so sorry for that girl to go through what she did. I also want to apologise greatly for any offence that my views caused.
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[QUOTE=Retribution]
Now, with the NEW information, I can create a different opinion. Locking her up -- I'm not sure about. But I do believe in putting her in a controlled area where she can't hurt anyone or break anything for a while. Perhaps that place would be the back of the cop car, while the cops/teacher tried to calm her down from the other side of the steel fency thing.
[/QUOTE]

Listen to yourself! She's[I] five years old[/I], the teacher could've held her in his/her arms, speaking to her with a calming voice. How hard can it be to calm down a five year old kid with a temper tantrum?! I've done it multiple times when I worked at the kindergarten, and no, not once I felt the need to call [I]the police[/I]. And I really worked with children with special needs who had little to no self-control.

I really don't know how teachers and nurses handle things in America in general, but if this is the way it is going, I can only wonder how any child who has grown up there has managed to stay mentally balanced.

Child is always a child, they might seem a bit "scary" sometimes when they get angry, but an adult should have no trouble taking the situation under control if s/he has the authority and courage.

Some people think that one shouldn't yell at children or grab them to one's arms, but children will grow up to be much more miserable if they are free to do whatever they want.

In any case there should be no need for law forces to intervene with the child's behaviour, that's just way over the board. There's a reason teachers and nurses go through an education: to become qualified to their work! If professional people don't know how to cope with these kind of situation, what about all the parents in the world who have no education?!

Gah, I think I have to stop writing in this thread, it's just too sick...
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I hate posts like this, if your going to post a story don't just post a one-sided veiw with half-a*s information. Even if it happened the way it was originally told, the girl could've easily been removed without having to be cuffed and locked-up. I mean c'mon, did anyone even bother to try to talk to her rather then send her to someone else, from home, to her teacher, to her principal, to the cops without anyone to even talk to. Have some sympathy, we've all been annoyed by kids like this, but this could scar the girl for life just for throwing a temper tantrum which I doubt any of you could say you've never done. As for the post, next time you decide to post a story, make sure you include all the facts so people don't just randomly post agreeing with you and then end up regreting what they've said due to facts that weren't represented in the original post.
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[quote name='Sage]Listen to yourself! She's[I] five years old[/I], the teacher could've held her in his/her arms, speaking to her with a calming voice. How hard can it be to calm down a five year old kid with a temper tantrum?! I've done it multiple times when I worked at the kindergarten, and no, not once I felt the need to call [I]the police[/I']. And I really worked with children with special needs who had little to no self-control.[/quote]
[SIZE=1]Thank you; I'm well aware of the fact she's [i]five years old.[/i] I don't think the teacher was going to pick up the kid because she was thrashing about, probably ready to harm a person if they tried to constrain her.

I'm sure the teacher over reacted by calling to cops, and that holding the girls wrists or something would've been the best course of action. But in reality, the teacher did what she did, and I'm left thinking -- Is it terrible? No, not really. It's the preconcieved notion of being cuffed that's got everyone thinking that they were doing somethign inhumane to her.

Then the arguement of "mentally damaging her" springs up, almost from nowhere. I mean, yes, she definitely was under alot of stress, but that does not give her the right to trash a classroom.

The reality of it all is that both parties were at fault. She shouldnt've trashed the room, and the teacher shouldnt've called the cops. Yes, calling the cops was over the top, but it's not like the girl is harmed from it.[/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=Sage]Listen to yourself! She's[I] five years old[/I], the teacher could've held her in his/her arms, speaking to her with a calming voice. How hard can it be to calm down a five year old kid with a temper tantrum?! I've done it multiple times when I worked at the kindergarten, and no, not once I felt the need to call [I]the police[/I]. And I really worked with children with special needs who had little to no self-control.

I really don't know how teachers and nurses handle things in America in general, but if this is the way it is going, I can only wonder how any child who has grown up there has managed to stay mentally balanced.

Child is always a child, they might seem a bit "scary" sometimes when they get angry, but an adult should have no trouble taking the situation under control if s/he has the authority and courage.

Some people think that one shouldn't yell at children or grab them to one's arms, but children will grow up to be much more miserable if they are free to do whatever they want.

In any case there should be no need for law forces to intervene with the child's behaviour, that's just way over the board. There's a reason teachers and nurses go through an education: to become qualified to their work! If professional people don't know how to cope with these kind of situation, what about all the parents in the world who have no education?!

Gah, I think I have to stop writing in this thread, it's just too sick...[/QUOTE]

Sage you take all the words out of my mouth.
I also worked in a kindergarden and worked with handy cap children, in fact i have a brother who is handy cap, so its not that hard to control a five year old girl whose from what i think is desperate for a attention, just a simply calm and soft voice and a hug would help her calm down, children will be allway children, the poor little girl was just scared and sad...
Children needs us to make them to understand what's wrong and what's not, of course the way the girl acted its wrong, but it was just deserate call for attention...
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don't worry about it retribution, as I said in my first post, a lot of people were sort of one-sided about the issue because the first post was one-sided. A lot of important information was left out and its hard to make an informed conclusion without having all the facts. No need to defend yourself, I don't mean to pick you out, just an example.

As for the emotional comment, its very true. I mean, her life seemed to be hard enough already, and something like this could dramatically effect her. At such a young age its hard to imagine being arrested. I'm 16 and have never seriously talked to a police officer let alone be arrested. Shes got a long hard life ahead of her and the last thing she needs is this unnecessary roughness. She shouldn't have thrown the tantrum, but you have to take her age into account. Shes five, and all five year olds do it, even more so when they have problems like this one. And although it was a big mess, it could've been handled much differently.
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[QUOTE=Retribution][SIZE=1]
Then the arguement of "mentally damaging her" springs up, almost from nowhere. I mean, yes, she definitely was under alot of stress, but that does not give her the right to trash a classroom.

The reality of it all is that both parties were at fault. She shouldnt've trashed the room, and the teacher shouldnt've called the cops. Yes, calling the cops was over the top, but it's not like the girl is harmed from it.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]


That is where you are sadly very, [I]very[/I] wrong. Just think about yourself when you were five. Surely you threw some wild tantrums over the smallest things, throwing stuff and screaming your lungs out. In this case the girl was in a class room with lots of potential targets to aim frustration at, it's not like she did it out of the evilness of her soul.

Think about your own reaction if suddenly, in the middle of your childish fissyfit, a couple of bulky strange adults had come and put cold steel chains around your wrists and ankles. How can you possibly say that it wouldn't harm the kid in any way? That is like the most traumatizing thing for a five year old aside sexual abuse and violence!

Next time before you start saying what's harmful and what's not, Retribution, do a little soul-searching, okay?

And again, the girl was five years old, she has yet to develop a sense of right and wrong, so it's like telling a wolf that it had no right to eat the sheep!

It takes some effort to understand the world from a child's point of view, but we are all so young that we should still have a pretty good memory of it. Just put yourself in the girl's position, and you'll understand my point.
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Let's try to tone it down a little, folks. Some of the posts here have been awfully insulting; no matter how outraged you feel, there's really no need for personal attacks. Thanks.

[quote name='Sage']And again, the girl was five years old, she has yet to develop a sense of right and wrong, so it's like telling a wolf that it had no right to eat the sheep![/quote]
I strongly disagree with you on that point. The extent of the punishment in this specific instance is obviously questionable, but you've basically just asserted that young children should not be punished for misbehavior because they do not fully understand that misbehaving is wrong. Well, they're never going to learn that it's wrong until someone takes the initiative to show them.

Moreover, I'm confident that the vast majority of five-year-olds do have some notion of right and wrong. They're capable of feeling immense guilt, of lying, of feeling conflicted, of being sneaky to avoid getting in trouble, and so on and so forth. Stating that children of this age have yet to develop any kind of fundamental moral compass is honestly a little bit patronizing.

Again, I don't particularly want to comment on how this might relate to the incident described by the original poster (as that's a rather different can of worms), but I did feel compelled to respond to the remark quoted above.

~Dagger~
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Actually, that's not quite what I meant, Dagger... Must be the lingual differences again. [I]Of course [/I] five year old children have [I]some[/I] concept of morals (it would be very concerning if they didn't).

I meant that children are in the middle of developing said skill to tell right from wrong, so claiming that "she had no right to do it" sounds like she would have a total understanding of what she had done, thus she would have done it on purpose, which surely isn't the case.

I'm not sure if you follow my flow of thoughts, a child has sort of "right" to do whatever he or she does, because the child is only learning about the world and it rules. It is up to the adults to put the limits and restrict the child's behaviour because the child can't do it by itself, and [I]that's[/I] the whole point. The only thing that girl must've been thinking was "I'm upset", so she showed it the only way she could - by throwing a temper tantrum. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm simplifying children, but that's just how it goes. They are [I]children[/I], not small adults. They have so much to learn about the world, and the worst thing adults can teach them is fear and unsafety.

PS. I'm sorry if I've offended anybody's person, I'm just going against opinions here. As a future professional of social care and somebody who has had quite alot of experience in working with children, I feel entitled to say I know more about upbringing and the psyche of a child than average teenagers (I know I sound very arrogant here, but I'm just saying what I feel is the truth).
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Oh, I see. From the way you phrased it, I thought you were implying that they hadn't even begun to develop a sense of right and wrong.

[quote name='Sage]I'm not sure if you follow my flow of thoughts, a child has sort of "right" to do whatever he or she does, because the child is only learning about the world and it rules. It is up to the adults to put the limits and restrict the child's behaviour because the child can't do it by itself, and [I]that's[/I] the whole point. The only thing that girl must've been thinking was "I'm upset", so she showed it the only way she could - by throwing a temper tantrum. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm simplifying children, but that's just how it goes. They are [I]children[/I'], not small adults. They have so much to learn about the world, and the worst thing adults can teach them is fear and unsafety.[/quote]
Children are indeed not adults, but I believe it's rather risky to carry that line of thinking too far. Kids can be very perceptive, even if it's only in an intuitive sense--just imagine a young child bullying/wearing down his mother into buying him whatever he wants. When certain children are treated permissively, they will take advantage of that to walk all over you, and it's a really unfortunate way to grow up. When you scold a child after the fact, it's already too late--it'll come down to the personality of the child and the personality of the care-giver, but the child should come away from it with a memory strong enough to make him hesitate the next time he's tempted.

As an example, I remember picking up some pretty nasty curse words when I was around six or so. The first time I used them in the house (not wholly understanding their significance), my mother turned on me. I was a pretty shy kid, so just hearing her speak harshly was enough to put the fear of God in me. I wasn't traumatized or anything--I just felt bad enough about it to avoid doing it again.

Individual children differ. Some are like how I was as a child--others aren't affected by being treated coldly or rebuked. There are instances (and I don't know enough to decide whether the event cited in this thread is one of them, just to make that clear) in which instilling a child with fear is important or even vital. Sometimes it's the only way to reach a kid who is used to making adults his doormat, or a kid who is prone to lashing out at & hurting other children. More significantly, fear taught by adults is much more effective at preventing an inquisitive child from running out into the street alone or touching a hot stove than simply saying, "Don't do that."

Just my two cents. :)

EDIT: Also, I don't mean to suggest that fear (that is, making a child afraid about the consequences of his actions) should ever be used on its own. When used sparingly and combined with appropriate amounts of kindness & loving care, it's a powerful tool.

~Dagger~
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Five-year-old being a five-year-old + teacher lacking judgement =

[I]Sent to principal's office[/I]

Principal - Patience =

[I]Officer involvement[/I]

Child + a (police) b (handcuffs) c (mother actually showing up) d (media) =

[I]Effective Growth Mentality[/I]

Florida news < What we are presented with in post =

[I]One-sided opinion[/I]

Wrong sense of justice / Unfair radical replies =

[I]Disgust toward those claiming to be humane[/I]

Analysis: Everyone who replied with outrageous agreement to the first post is at fault here for not asking for the whole truth of both sides of the story and even thinking that such unmentionable punishment is justified to use on a girl at that early an age.

Cause: Being silly while learning to ******* count GOD **** jelly beans in a normally immature way.

Effect: Loss of a little more respect for humanity.

Moral: Irrational decisions begets irrational actions. Lack of any mercy for our young will be rewarded with undying torment for ages to come.

[U][B]Does that clear up my earlier post enough for ya!?[/B][/U]
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[QUOTE=Dagger]
Individual children differ. Some are like how I was as a child--others aren't affected by being treated coldly or rebuked. There are instances (and I don't know enough to decide whether the event cited in this thread is one of them, just to make that clear) in which instilling a child with fear is important or even vital. Sometimes it's the only way to reach a kid who is used to making adults his doormat, or a kid who is prone to lashing out at & hurting other children. More significantly, fear taught by adults is much more effective at preventing an inquisitive child from running out into the street alone or touching a hot stove than simply saying, "Don't do that."

Just my two cents. :)

EDIT: Also, I don't mean to suggest that fear (that is, making a child afraid about the consequences of his actions) should ever be used on its own. When used sparingly and combined with appropriate amounts of kindness & loving care, it's a powerful tool.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]


Hmm, we're getting an itsy bit philosophical here, but paedagogics are a really complicated subject, not least because everybody have their own views on how to raise children to become good members of the society (because that's what paedagogics are officially for).

I agree with you that there are cases that require frigthening the child a little to get the message through, but in my opinion a raiser should always start with gentle methods. Giving a child love and care throughout his or her growing up should be enough, but unfortunately usually children want to test adults in many irritating ways, in which case the adult should be patient and set limitations to child's behaviour that will keep. If the adult constantly gives up on the child, the game is lost.

But while setting the limits it's also important to keep them rational, and - if the child is old enough to understand - explain the purpose of the limits with as much details as possible.

Example: the child musn't cross the road by itself. The parent should explain why it is so dangerous to cross the road (the traffic, danger of getting lost), what are the consequences (the child could get seriously hurt), and perhaps why it is better to stay in this side of the road (it would make the parents happy, all the playing equipment are there etc.)

In the example there was some amount of frightening involved, but it's totally different than "if you go across that street I'll whoop your ***!" (which reminds the upbringing I had - no wonder I'm studying social care!)

Same thing can be included in this particular case this thread is about. Instead of frightening the living hell out of the girl by calling in the cops (which I'm sure was the principal's idea), proper calming down would've been in place, grabbing her wrist, hushing her... I mean, she's so young! What serious threat could a five years old girl possibly pose?

I'm guessing it must be that teachers aren't allowed to touch their students in any way in America, so they had to call the officials to do that, which is insane both logically and economically. Yet another thing that makes me thank my destiny that I wasn't born in America... Ehm, sorry, that was innecessary (true, but innecessary).

I think I've had just about enough from this issue for today. It's almost 2 AM in this side of the globe, so if something I said offended or confused any of you, blame the time! Good night...
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