GothicScreamo...Just screaming or art?

[Viper0529]

Hmm, what do I get out of metal (or at least what I consider is metal, anyway)...well, it kind of depends on when I am listening to it. I listen to all kinds of music (exception of rap and country), so I listen to some soft rock, hard rock, etc. The only few times that I listen to really powerful metal it when I am at the gym working out, or am running the lovely (sarcasm) five and a half mile run around my neighborhood. I guess that the metal and the fast pace guitar riffs fuel my adrenaline(?) and more or less motivate me to keep going.

I guess... I never really thought about it.

Hopes this helps

[Albert Flasher]

[COLOR=Sienna]Metal... I've always said metal could be a very listenable genre if it wasn't for the vocals. The guitars, the drums, everything, is quite awesome - a lot of technical prowess, although sometimes it could stand to slow the heck down. The vocals are just... blegh. I hear people say "Well, it's not easy, y'know!" but I don't care. You know what else isn't easy? Pulling your testicles out through your armpit - [i]but it doesn't make it fun to listen too![/i].

I know ALL metal isn't just screaming mindlessly... but there's far too much of it. I know people say it's "Raw emotions" and other crap, but to me it's just somone who's really good at screaming over guitars playing fast for the sake of playing fast. [/COLOR]

[Jakehammaren]

Ever listened to any Doom Metal or Goth Metal? It's virtually never fast.

[Momiji Love]

[CENTER][COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][SIZE=1][FONT=Verdana]This sort of reminds me of arguing about whether rap was art or just guys making up words and speed talking.
:D

I like bands like Hawthorne Heights, who my mother won't let me play in the car because "They scream a lot." and "They sound like they are dying."
And AFI goes the same track.

Personally, a good "screamer" makes my insides melt.
In the good way.

[QUOTE]In conclusion, most of the people in this thread are trendy wannabes. Thankyou.[/QUOTE]

Does it really make you a "trendy wannabe" if you make a mistake?
Not trying to start another totally off-topic fight here, just pointing it out.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/CENTER]

[Skeith92]

[quote name='Avenged666fold']I HATE sceaming metal. HATE it! In my school not alot of people listen to metal and don't know anything about the different types. So when one kid goes and watches headbangers ball for about 3 minutes and hears some screamer band he goes and tells the whole school about how these goth weirdo's scream on tv. The same day they see my leather metallica jacket and they see the word metal on it. NOW IM A GOTH!!!!! Also it's not art going like this AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH. It's just annoying. So no this screamo whatever the hell is not art. It's screaming. Thats why I hate all these new "metal" bands(save av7x they rule :catgirl: ). They should take all their emo craptitude and go join an r&b band where crying like a girl makes sense.[/quote]


If you hate screaming then you must not be a fan of the old A7X. All they did was scream, but I like their old music more. Also, I think screaming is an art, but only if you pair it with actual singing. I like when someone screams while another person will sing.

[dog dancing1]

well I don't like all those emo bands where there like 19 years old and crap "singing there heart out"
Some of the Bands I like are Amon Amarth, Doomsword, Arch enemy, Enslaved, Morgion.
With most screamo bands they don't scream all the way though, they put it in key points in the sound that makes it great, And most metal songs tell storys and folk lore.
And satanic stuff in metal of all kinds theres not much, in fact I know of a lot of christian metal bands out there like Zao and many others.

Peace Out :p

[Box Hoy]

[size=1]And with this thread I make my ultamite return to otakuboards again. Good to see some familar faces.

I've been pretty frustrated with the screamo trend tately. They're flogging the hell out of magazines like Metal Hammer and it pisses me off. If they're going to be screamo lump them with all the other crap bands which you see in Alternative Press.
Continuing on I'm seeing interviews now where members of bands like AFI are taking pot shots at nu metal bands. One guy was all like "I'm glad the nu metal and grunge trend is dying." Yet in another magazine I read there was somebody calling MCR and FFTL, Nu Metal. I think if they're going to pick apart genre's they need to actually give Nu Metal a definition. If they wanna call music crap, call it crap, not nu metal.

Now onto the Headbangers Ball thing that arose. Last time I watched it, it was getting flogged by nothing but hardcore bands now. They've completly dropped anything by korn or slipknot in place of these ****** *** bands. I swear nothing in hardcore sounds unique. As I Lay Dying sounds almost exactly like Sinai Beach and people call are calling them gods practically. And it's this metalcore (hardcore punk which incorperates metal like Jake said) which is the cause. People think they can associate death metal with their cheap *** screamo because hardcore bridges the gap. It's really disgusting.[/size]

[Justin]

[quote]You said that you thought that As I Lay Dying and Bleeding Through were basically like progressed Metal bands - or Metalcore. I think it's more like they're more sophisticated Hardcore bands. It's really becoming a fine line between Metalcore and Metal these days, but that's really only an issue in the massively mainstream "Metal" scene. Metalcore has become the new Hair Metal, I think. It's like band after band is writing a catchy riff and a breakdown to get a video on MTV. That's not what the spirit of Metal is about.[/quote]

I like your statement about metalcore having become the new hair metal. While I don't think it's gotten quite that bad yet, I foresee Atreyu having a video on TRL within the next couple years. And when Atreyu, Eighteen Visions, Avenged Sevenfold, and God knows who else all have videos on MTV, I'm sure some corporate giant will jump on the metal machine again.

Now, that's no real problem for me. As you said, your views about metal are very purist, mine are very eclectic. I've given up on ever trying to make a list of my favorite bands, because I forget who they are in the mass of bands that I love.

Totally unrelated: Emperor is playing a few gigs in NY and LA for any who are able to go.

-Justin

[Billy Shears]

[quote name='Jakehammaren']Yeah, but none of those are Metal bands. Metal does tend to have a lot of harsh vocals, but a good portion of it doesn't. It just depends what type you're into.[/quote]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]But you can see why people lump [B]As I Lay Dying[/B], [B]Opeth[/B], [B]Cannibal Corpse[/B], old [B]Avenged Sevenfold[/B] and any other screaming band together right? It's because they [B]all[/B] scream.

Saying they're goth metal, metalcore, grindcore, hardcore, semi-hardcore/metalcore, emo, screamo, metal-screamo, black metal, death metal, coremetal, deathcore, core-core, whatever the label, the general public is going to lump them together because they all scream. The general public likes to reject those bands, too. :p

I think that too many people deal with so many technicalities that it loses its sole purpose: listening. I'm not attacking you, Jakehammaren, you are [I]very[/I] smart when it comes to metal, much smarter than me. But to constantly pick apart everything you hear, doesn't the music lose its value? If you like something, take it for what it is. If not, hit 'Stop'

I think we should rip away the labels and just listen to it.

P.S. I've been seeing this [B]NWOBHM[/B] acronym alot. What the hell does this mean?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Amorphous]

It's the most annoying long acronym in metal ever. It stands for New Wave of British Heavy Metal, it was a term in the 80's refering to 80's British Heavy Metal bands.

[Jakehammaren]

[quote name='Amorphous']It's the most annoying long acronym in metal ever. It stands for New Wave of British Heavy Metal, it was a term in the 80's refering to 80's British Heavy Metal bands.[/quote]

Bands that fall into the NWOBHM include Iron Maiden, Saxon, and the like.

And about music losing its value due to deep analyzation:

I actually find I get more out of my music by picking it apart. If I still deeply adore an album after I've picked it apart, analyzed every nuance of it, concluded what influenced it, etc. then I know it's an album well worth my time. Everyone approaches their music differently. It might sound pretentious, but I tend to enjoy the more subtle, complex, technical side of what makes a great album as opposed to the immediate appeal. Sure, a band can write catchy riffs, but that usually won't cut it for me.

This brings me to why I cannot stand metalcore and nu-metal. There is nothing to analyze. When you pop in an As I Lay Dying album or an All That Remains disc, you know exactly what you're getting: catchy pop choruses, watered down wannabe At the Gates riffs, and the seemingly ubiquitous mosh-friendly chug-a-lug E string breakdown. It's like aggressive pop music to my ears.

And as for the labels on Metal's many subgenres:

Labels are simply in place for this reason - if I'm in the mood for some really melodic, fast metal with high-pitched sung vocals, just saying "what's a good Metal band?" simply won't cut it. I'd say "can you suggest a good Power Metal band?" When I'm reading reviews at [url]www.metalcrypt.com[/url] (best Metal resource on the web, by the way), the first thing I look at is the subgenre of the band I'm reading about. It immediately lets me know what the reviewer is talking about when he/she says something about the atmosphere, riffs, drumming, or any other aspect of the music.

You see, Metal covers such a broad spectrum of sounds these days that labels are necessary for differentiating sound. Doom-Death is so drastically different from Black Metal which is drastically different from Power Metal which is drasitically different from Gothic Metal... you get the idea. Labels don't take away from the music - they simply act as an organization system.

[Billy Shears]

[QUOTE=Jakehammaren]Bands that fall into the NWOBHM include Iron Maiden, Saxon, and the like.

And about music losing its value due to deep analyzation:

I actually find I get more out of my music by picking it apart. If I still deeply adore an album after I've picked it apart, analyzed every nuance of it, concluded what influenced it, etc. then I know it's an album well worth my time. Everyone approaches their music differently. It might sound pretentious, but I tend to enjoy the more subtle, complex, technical side of what makes a great album as opposed to the immediate appeal. Sure, a band can write catchy riffs, but that usually won't cut it for me.

This brings me to why I cannot stand metalcore and nu-metal. There is nothing to analyze. When you pop in an As I Lay Dying album or an All That Remains disc, you know exactly what you're getting: catchy pop choruses, watered down wannabe At the Gates riffs, and the seemingly ubiquitous mosh-friendly chug-a-lug E string breakdown. It's like aggressive pop music to my ears.

And as for the labels on Metal's many subgenres:

Labels are simply in place for this reason - if I'm in the mood for some really melodic, fast metal with high-pitched sung vocals, just saying "what's a good Metal band?" simply won't cut it. I'd say "can you suggest a good Power Metal band?" When I'm reading reviews at [url]www.metalcrypt.com[/url] (best Metal resource on the web, by the way), the first thing I look at is the subgenre of the band I'm reading about. It immediately lets me know what the reviewer is talking about when he/she says something about the atmosphere, riffs, drumming, or any other aspect of the music.

You see, Metal covers such a broad spectrum of sounds these days that labels are necessary for differentiating sound. Doom-Death is so drastically different from Black Metal which is drastically different from Power Metal which is drasitically different from Gothic Metal... you get the idea. Labels don't take away from the music - they simply act as an organization system.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]Ok. I do try to look for technical aspects, too, just not as much. I probably would have more fun analyzing Jimi Hendrix :animesmil . And I f'ing [I][B]hate[/B][/I] breakdowns. Just put a solo there. It'll sound cooler.

The thing that makes me angry about labels is that people won't listen if it has a particular label. Just because the bands MySpace page has the label "Metalcore/Death Metal", *gaspshockhorror*, people hate that it has that metalcore label to it. If you happen to only like Death Metal, the band sucks now because they're labeled Metalcore first. But what if the band is great?

It's not that I don't like labels, I don't like how people turn down fantastic music because of them. I think some people pay attention to the kind of music rather than the music itself. I probably should have justifyed myself a little more on my first post. :animestun

I understand that it's for organization purposes, but they're so many it is a little overwhelming. I know it sounds ignorant, but I would love it if we could take the good, bad, and ugly of metal and put it in it's rightful place: in the Metal category. That's how I will view [B]'Priest[/B] and [B]Corrosion of Conformity[/B], [B]As I Lay Dying[/B] and [B]Slipknot[/B], [B]Metallica[/B] and [B]Opeth[/B], [B]Rob Zombie[/B] and [B]The Black Dalhia Murder[/B], [B]Dream Evil[/B] and [B]Moonsorrow[/B] forever.

In their own little ways, great or terrible, they are all metal. They have done something worthy of the title bestowed to them.

But to argue who the most metal is? It's too much yelling...[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Amorphous]

I do about the same as Jakehammeren here when it comes to analyzing music and I feel the same way. The only difference between us is I am the more pretentious about the whole thing and more elitist, just because I feel that some of the bands you have listed Billy Shear are not metal, well two, but I hate to argue so we are not going to go there.

Either way, I never did enjoy the NWOBH movement it just never thrilled me. Many bands I felt were lacking, but of course that is my opinion, I was never a fan of Power Metal either (minus a select excellent few). NWOBH is where power metal gained it's main influences from... the only reason I enjoy Blind Guardian so much for example is because they got their early influence from Speed-Metal... mmmm.

[Jakehammaren]

Billy - Slipknot, As I Lay Dying and Rob Zombie actually aren't metal [I]at all[/I], but as Amorphous also stated, I won't get into it. As far as the rest of them, you're right - they're really just Metal bands. Calling Moonsorrow a Viking Metal band and Black Dahlia Murder a Death Metal band are just ways to catagorize them. But I already know you know what I mean, so I don't know why I'm even typing this. :animesigh

[DaSilva]

I just want to say that not all of us out there who dislike metal or screamo bands don't respect it. I for one, know how hard it is to scream properly, but its just not my thing. As it is for a lot of people out there. I just like to listen to understandable music.

[Box Hoy]

[quote name='DaSilva']I just want to say that not all of us out there who dislike metal or screamo bands don't respect it. I for one, know how hard it is to scream properly, but its just not my thing. As it is for a lot of people out there. I just like to listen to understandable music.[/quote]

[size=1]It's not really screaming to begin with. I would compare it to a high pitched growl. Secondly, alot of "screamo" is understandable. If you can't understand it, train yourself by reading the lyrics and you'll be able to distinguish it better, the same with metal.
My problem is that you called all metal not understandable. There's a wide variety in the ways lyrics are delivered in metal and some are more distinguishable than others.[/size]

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=trebuchet ms]The sad thing is that a lot of people don't understand when they use "emo" or "screamo," that the genres feature a lot of spoken word. Rather than the screaming bringing out emotion, it broke away from the hardcore, all-screaming vocals, scene and used auditable lyrics to convey emotion.

So, [i]try to know a little about what you're talking about.[/i] XD[/font]

[Jakehammaren]

[QUOTE=RiflesAtRecess][font=trebuchet ms]
So, [i]try to know a little about what you're talking about.[/i] XD[/font][/QUOTE]

You'll find, Rifles, that this rarely happens. :animesigh Hahaha! Feel my pain!

[DaSilva]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by [B]Boh Hoy[/B]It's not really screaming to begin with. I would compare it to a high pitched growl. Secondly, alot of "screamo" is understandable. If you can't understand it, train yourself by reading the lyrics and you'll be able to distinguish it better, the same with metal.
My problem is that you called all metal not understandable. There's a wide variety in the ways lyrics are delivered in metal and some are more distinguishable than others. [/QUOTE]

I apologize for grouping all metal together. I didn't mean to do that. I haven't heard enough metal to say that all of it is understandable. I will say this though, there is a local metal band around here called [U]Laid To Rest[/U], and they play a lot of The Rolling Stones covers. I am a huge stones fan, and I know all of the words to most of the songs that LTR does, but I can still never understand a word of what they say.

[crazyoveranime]

metal doesn't mean u worship the devil i happen to think it has alot of meaning,passion and heart in it i u try to listen to the lyrics you'll find out what their singing or in this case screaming about :catgirl:

i listen to metal,rock,alternative rock too everyone tell me to turn off that trash when i listen to it but it doesn't bother me i just ignore them no matter how much they annoy me i like what i like and other people like what they like

[Jakehammaren]

And let's not forget, half the metal bands out there don't even scream: DragonForce, Kamelot, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Lumsk, Rhapsody, Galloglass, the list goes on.

[DaSilva]

Just a quick question. How did we get from screamo to metal? They are two completely different genres.

[Goodbye, Face]

[font=arial][size=1]As interesting as the combination seems, there is no "GothicScreamo" genre, thus making any label as to what genre this thread should be about... meaningless. So, we're going off of the second part of the thread title, which also makes us horribly off topic. :D

And just to point out some things:

I don't believe anyone said that creating or listening to Metal music makes you some sort of devil-worshipper.

Anyone who thinks all Metal bands scream is also incredibly ignorant. Especially when the mainstream music audience would call Nickelback and Staind Metal.[/font][/size]

[Box Hoy]

[quote name='DaSilva']Just a quick question. How did we get from screamo to metal? They are two completely different genres.[/quote]

[size=1]Because the entire screamo genre has been horriblly confused as metal. Let me lay it all out for you and all the different genre's involved in this mess.

[b]Hardcore Punk[/b]: A thicker, faster version of regular punk rock.
[b]Heavy Metal[/b]: There's too many sub genre's so I'll just call it heavy metal. We're focusing on the period of the 80's when heavy metal was big.
[b]Thrash[/b]: The result of 80's heavy metal and hardcore punk coming together. Also known as thrash.
[b]Metalcore[/b]: Bands like Bullet for My Valentine and Dead to Fall. Deap vocals but at times slow.
[b]Pop[/b]: Fun loving....mostly digital. I dunno. Just listen to a pop channel and you'll understand.
[b]Nu Metal[/b]: Characterized by rap style vocals. Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park. People also put Slipknot and Coal Chamber in this genre but they're more industrial nu metal. I won't even get into that.
[b]Emo[/b]: Formed in the late 80's when they really did cry.
[b]Pop Punk[/b]: Modern emo. Nobody cries.
[b]Screamo[/b]: Combines pop punk and hardcore punk and is easily confused with metalcore at times.

So here's the story. In the 80's hardcore punk rockers and heavy metal fans were basically at war. There were some bands though that crossed the two genre's and created thrash. Metalcore bands derive alot of their sound from thrash but have mixed in with pop punk and screamo.
In the late 80's a genre related to punk called emo emerged. At the time they actually were able to get up and cry on stage.
I think pop personally is the devil because in infiltrated genre's and creates new genre's with bands that sounds awesome but eventually die because people realize it's the corperate pigs running everything.
That's what happened in the 90's with Nu metal. Pop infiltrated metal and added their rap to it. You had really awesome bands come out like KoRn emerge who's music centered around a rough childhood and social aspects. Limp Bizkit is the biggest nu metal band I would say that involved rap in their music. Slipknot rapped too but not as much. Instead they brought in a dj and a sampler.
That there was mostly an example of what pop can do and what was about to do. They resureccted emo in the form of pop punk because they didn't cry but sounded a little like punkish. And over a few months screamo developed out of that. Some screamo bands were serious enough to be compared to metalcore and so the two have been sort of tied into the whole pop punk mess. Examples: From First to Last which is screamo and pop punk, Dead to Fall which is screamo and metalcore, and My Chemical Romance could be considered pop punk.

I hope that was accurate. Jake you might want to check it through and see if I was right.[/size]

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][QUOTE=Box Hoy][size=1][b]Emo[/b]: Formed in the late 80's when they really did cry.
[..]
[b]Screamo[/b]: Combines pop punk and hardcore punk and is easily confused with metalcore at times.[/size][/QUOTE]
That's where you're wrong. Screamo is what emo sounded like originally. As more bands [i]toned it down[/i], punters started calling the original sound screamo because it, well, had more screaming, and the new comers to the genre didn't like it. Screamo was kind of used in the same sense as nu metal, basically, even though the definition was wrong.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]