School testing.

[Twilight]

[color=navy]Heya! Twilight the Wavemaster with the first of probably many influential debates! We all have to do certain things we don't want to at some point or another, but we students have an insane amount of testing. Knowledge is good and all, but OH MY GOD!!! I'M GOING INSANE!!! And unlike most people I know, I happen to value my sanity (or, at least, the little I have left). Who else is thinking that we students have too much testing? What are we? Lab rats? No!!![/color] :sleep:

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]My advice to you is to get over it. Yes, you have a lot of tests, everyone does. I survived years of different tests.

I got ink blot tests, the test with the patterned blocks, blood tests up the wazoo (they give you tons when your pregnant), math tests, my sophomore and Junior year I took both the regents and the local exam for Global and History respectfully, biology, chemistry, and even a test in interpersonal communication! And yes, I even took a driving test :flaming:

Okay, you're not a lab rat, but you are a student partaking in education and therefore this country's education system has to make sure that its participants have at least a vague idea of what their teachers were talking about while the student was passed out and drooling on the desk. So shut up, count your GPA and hope that you don't decide to join the military and get a PT Test.[/color]

[Twilight]

[color=navy]Ahem, well then, thank you for that awkward summary of how I felt. But, yes, it is a lot. And BTW, I love your sig. It [i]is[/i] freedom for all religions.[/color]

[Guest Crimson Spider]

Origion of the SAT:

O.K. The army made this test and would use it to find who was smart and could be a general and who wasn't the brightest crayon in the box to be a foot soldier. I believe it was called the Alpha test. But there was a problem: you got people dumber than a rock leading and the most briliant tacticians in the trenches. The test didn't work. Period. So the army dropped the test.

Years later, Iowa adopts the test and uses it as a standard to enter college. Probably ignored why the army dropped it. But as long as they make money off of the test, their just happy with it.


The SAT doesn't determin how smart you are. It determins how well you take a complicated test bright and early in a Saturday Morning.

So yeah, I think there are way too many tests in life.

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]Until you have been forced to take a hands-on IQ test, you know not the aggravations of testing.

I tend to get quite bored during tests, unless I am nervous (always during math tests, hense my forgetting everything and failing), and usually zip through them as fast as possible. Needless to say: I don't get very good marks.
If you mean by "too much testing" that teachers often throw a term-test at you after simply brushing upon a subject, or that exams (which I will have to start taking next year, unless I fail the grade) are too long and frequent, then I guess I see where you're coming from.
However, what ChibiHorsewoman said is legitimate: tests are a way to make sure we understand the material.

My only problem is I figure out what I'm supposed to know after the test--before that, I just kind of sit around drawing, not completing my homework, and talking in class.

Heh. It's the explaining the constant stream of 50%'s to the parents that makes me bitter towards the concept, though.

At least they don't hand us blocks and demand we construct paterns from them, based on the mediums presented on their various faces. Then they have the nerve to [I]not give us our intelligence quotas[/I]. Damn them...[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred]I love tests. I excel at tests. It is the actual work which is required to fill in the time between tests that I dislike.

Tests give me...competition. I thrive on competition.

Now, something that really should be griped about is homework. I fail to see why we need so much of it. Well... I understand why I suppose, I just don't appreciate it.[/color][/size]

[MissWem]

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1][color=darkred]I love tests. I excel at tests. It is the actual work which is required to fill in the time between tests that I dislike.
[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

...class is good...it's called socialising..but can I just ask. How do you excel at being tested on something you weren't taught because of "the actual work which is required to fill in the time between tests"?:p

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1][color=darkred]Tests give me...competition. I thrive on competition.

Now, something that really should be griped about is homework. I fail to see why we need so much of it. Well... I understand why I suppose, I just don't appreciate it.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

I fully agree...Home work deprives us of free time which in turn deprives us of free thought and hence stunting our creativity, therefore leading to depression and suicidal tendencies...

...which reminds me...I have homework to do *grumbles about the lack of sleep*

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred]Oh, I would agree that class is good. I enjoy the social aspect. Sometimes I am just not in a mood to work. I am not against learning, sometimes the work just feel pointless though. I guess that I am occasionally in a lazy frame of mind though. I don't enjoy the pointless repetition of activities. Unless it is just a phase. However, I do learn most of it, and retain some of it. The concept of a test...the atmosphere. It is just exciting and invogorating.

It truly gives me a chance to shine.[/color][/size]

[gumby]

[font=Arial][color=darkred]There are those that stress to much before tests, then there are those that do the exact oppisite. I am one of those people that don't stress enough which is bad for the results. Stress makes us more alert more able to remember things etc. When you don't stress enough you forget things (like maths equations) which can cause you to fail.. badly.[/color][/font]

[Sara]

[size=1]Testing's just something you deal with as a student.

If you're that vehement about the whole thing, you can check out
[URL=http://www.nomoretests.com/]this site.[/URL] (I have such a wonderful array of bizarre sites....)

[color=#ff3300]Incidently, please don't title your threads things like "more stupid crap." As a general rule, the title should give people an idea of what they're in for when they click the link.[/color][/size]

[Eclectic]

I understand how you feel. In my last period, I was made to take a test to take an inventory of the juniors and seniors for which occupations they might have later in life. Around Valentine's Day, there are usually tests to match you with a guy in the school. In PreCalc, we're given nearly constant quizzes and tests to see if we have good memories (evil nun). I see exactly where you're coming from, Twilight. But as others have said, tests are a necessary evil. On March 27, I'll be taking the SATs. But I understand why (pretty much) I have too take them. Then again, I'm one of those people who never studies and would have been in NHS (long, off topic story). Semi long story short: tests can be a good thing, believe it or not. And, like Baron said, it's the time between that makes the tests worse. And homework. Homework is a not-so-necessary evil. Speaking of which, I must go memorize the graphs of sine, cosine, tangent, and their reciprocals. Anyone wish to help me?

[Fall]

Most public schools here have a fair amount of testing, that all public schools have to follow, though the test are spread out through the year so the students don't feel the pressure as much. It's meant to spread out the testing instead of having a heap of exams thrown at every student at once.

Though this is only for public schools. Private schools, as like my school (what a shithole), still follow the old procedure. No testing through the first term or start of the second term, and then a huge pile of tests are sat in front of us at the end of Term Two. Same goes for the third term and fourth term. They count semesters, Term One and Term Two is Semester One, and Term Three and Term Four is Semester Four. Each semester ends with a heap of tests. What a great way to go into the holidays.

[sailor firestar]

[FONT=Century Gothic]Speaking as a teacher, school testing totally bites. Of course many teachers either don't realize this or care which is why you kids are usually the ones to suffer. Actually the real culprits are (fanfare) [B]the government[/B]! Sadly, I am but one weird :wigout: voice in a sea of overcontrolling adults. *Sigh* If you were a fifth grader I'd love to have you in my class![/FONT]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='sailor firestar][FONT=Century Gothic]Speaking as a teacher, school testing totally bites. Of course many teachers either don't realize this or care which is why you kids are usually the ones to suffer. Actually the real culprits are (fanfare) [B]the government[/B']! Sadly, I am but one weird :wigout: voice in a sea of overcontrolling adults. *Sigh* If you were a fifth grader I'd love to have you in my class![/FONT][/quote]

[color=green]Right?

If students aren?t given some kind of standardized test, how is the Department of Education supposed to improve schools? They need data on student?s strengths and weaknesses to do that. The easiest way to do this is testing.

If you have a better system, propose it.

I personally don?t enjoy tests, especially timed ones. In fact, one of the more important tests I?m going to have to take is coming up soon. The CAPT (Connecticut Aptitude Test) is a standardized test that I?ll take late this month, which I must pass to graduate high school. This test has many flaws, but I feel it?s necessary. There?s far too much social promotion in our school, system. Failing students are just passed from grade to grade, never learning anything. If schools would hold these students back, they might actually learn the material. Instead, they slow the learning experience of other students in higher grades by occupying the teacher?s time.

School testing, for all its flaws, is necessary for any kind of standardized school system.[/color]

[sailor firestar]

[QUOTE=Boba Fett][color=green]Right?

If students aren?t given some kind of standardized test, how is the Department of Education supposed to improve schools? They need data on student?s strengths and weaknesses to do that. The easiest way to do this is testing.

If you have a better system, propose it.

The only way to create a better system would be to revamp the entire education system as we know it. Possibly even our value system where education is concerned. I have seen far too many students who are obviously not cut out for school as we know it. In my opinion stadardized curriculum should stop at a much younger level and make way for interest based courses and real job training. Also, school grade levels shouldn't be based on age but on maturity and intelligence. When you've mastered one thing you go on to the next, not when the term or year is over. Well, I haven't worked out all the bugs yet, gimme a break I'm only 24! :lecture:

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='sailor firestar']The only way to create a better system would be to revamp the entire education system as we know it. Possibly even our value system where education is concerned.[/quote]

[color=green]Good Luck with that one.

We should work within the existing school framework to eliminate the few negative policies that the school system has, like crazy weapons restrictions (I can be expelled from school for bringing in a picture of an ice-pick?) and social promotion.[/color]

[quote name='sailor firestar']I have seen far too many students who are obviously not cut out for school as we know it. In my opinion stadardized curriculum should stop at a much younger level and make way for interest based courses and real job training.[/quote]

[color=green]Stop standardized curriculum at a younger level? Children don?t know what?s good for them. If you let kids decide what classes they should take, there?d be very few in math and science.

Interest based courses should be reserved for students who have completed their balanced education and have some advanced skills in the interest course?s area. (Ex: To take journalism you should have to have taken some advanced English courses)

As for real job training, that already exists in the form of technical schools. This almost exclusively starts at a high school level. Why you?d want to start locking kids into professions earlier in life is beyond me.[/color]

[quote name='sailor firestar']Also, school grade levels shouldn't be based on age but on maturity and intelligence. When you've mastered one thing you go on to the next, not when the term or year is over.[/quote]

[color=green]So you?d mix drug using juniors and seniors, who don?t care about school, with intelligent eighth graders? They would both be ready for the same math class, but would they be ready to be in the same class? You, as a teacher, should know this better than anyone.[/color]

[quote name='sailor firestar']Well, I haven't worked out all the bugs yet, gimme a break I'm only 24! :lecture:[/quote]

[color=green]Give you a break? I?m not only nine years younger than you, but you?re supposed to be the one who?s an expert on education.

You should be giving me a break.[/color]

[Mitch]

[size=1][color=red] Testing is a necessary evil. You live with it. You do it. And that's that. Nothing much else you can do but make the motions.[/size][/color]

[sailor firestar]

Whoa now, I thought we were having an intellectual conversation not an idealist bashing session. Forgive my cynicism, but work within the system? Ahh to be in high school again. Ok, so maybe I'm the one bashing your ideals now but lighten up, if you've read any of my other posts you know my defining character trait is apathy. The comfort of Western civilization will never be upset by me. I'm a dreamer not a social revoutionary. My ideas are simply those, ideas. So to you, young mind of the future I concede, for the simple reason that the one thing I am against is fighting.

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='sailor firestar']Whoa now, I thought we were having an intellectual conversation not an idealist bashing session.[/quote]

[color=green]It?s still an intellectual conversation. This form of intellectual conversation called debate.[/color]

[quote name='sailor firestar']Forgive my cynicism, but work within the system? Ahh to be in high school again.[/quote]

[color=green]Ripping the entire school system down and starting it up again from scratch would ruin the educational experiences of an entire generation. It?d be much more conducive to learning to have a slow change that works within the framework of the existing educational system.[/color]

[quote name='sailor firestar']Ok, so maybe I'm the one bashing your ideals now but lighten up, if you've read any of my other posts you know my defining character trait is apathy.[/quote]

[color=green] [URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apathy]Apathy[/URL]-

1. Lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matters of general importance or appeal; indifference.
2. Lack of emotion or feeling; impassiveness.

Sounds like you?d make a great teacher?[/color]

[quote name='sailor firestar']I'm a dreamer not a social revoutionary.[/quote]

[color=green]That?s sad. You should try to use your ideas to affect positive change; otherwise they?ll go to waste.[/color]

[sailor firestar]

Apathy-

1. Lack of interest or concern, especially regarding matters of general importance or appeal; indifference.
2. Lack of emotion or feeling; impassiveness.
Sounds like you?d make a great teacher?

Anybody who makes comments like that isn't trying to debate something, they're trying to hurt someone.

But, as I apparantly did not make clear earlier, I don't debate my ideals. They're mine to have as are your opinions. Maybe it's sad that I've lost the passion to change the world but in the long run, it's realistic. Anyway, If I'd known message boards were such a source of contention I'd never have joined one in the first place. :(

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='sailor firestar']Anybody who makes comments like that isn't trying to debate something, they're trying to hurt someone.[/quote]

[color=green]I?m merely pointing out that an apathetic person would, by being who they are, not make a good teacher.

After all, one who is indifferent to others would have a very hard time relating to a class and teaching them something.[/color]

[quote name='sailor firestar'] But, as I apparantly did not make clear earlier, I don't debate my ideals. They're mine to have as are your opinions.[/quote]

[color=green]You should have some way of supporting everything you say. All your opinions should be solid; they should be based in fact.

If you cant defend your own beliefs in front of others, how can you justify them to yourself?[/color]
[quote name='sailor firestar']Maybe it's sad that I've lost the passion to change the world but in the long run, it's realistic.[/quote]
[color=green]That?s not a very teacher-like thing to say. After all, isn?t the point of teaching to change the world for the better by educating children?[/color]

[eleanor]

[i]The only way to create a better system would be to revamp the entire education system as we know it. Possibly even our value system where education is concerned. I have seen far too many students who are obviously not cut out for school as we know it. In my opinion stadardized curriculum should stop at a much younger level and make way for interest based courses and real job training. Also, school grade levels shouldn't be based on age but on maturity and intelligence. When you've mastered one thing you go on to the next, not when the term or year is over. Well, I haven't worked out all the bugs yet, gimme a break I'm only 24! [/i]

[color=firebrick]Um...are you crazy? I am seriously considering why you are a teacher.

Revamping our entire schooling system? Yeah, I'm sure that'll only take about hm...forever? What are you trying to pull here? There's some problems with current education, but to revamp the whole thing would be foolish and utterly insane.

And what do you suggest by saying you've seen too many children not cut out for school? Oh yeah, let's just cut off half of the children in the US from school because they're too young to know what they really want! Boba Fett is dead on in saying that children don't know what's good for them. 2/3 of them would pick something like Art Class because they enjoy playing around with clay or something. High school students know what they're interested in, so they allow high schoolers to choose some extra classes of their choice. College student know what's good for them, so they get to choose the classes they take. And think about it: math is even required in college as well.

And if you haven't noticed, mastering one thing and going on to the next is how school systems are set up. Kids who are have mastered an entire subject are allowed to go to higher classes. I won't give you a break because you're 24. You're a freaking teacher. [/color]

[Farto the Magic]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Hm. Lenin was an idealist and a visionary and look where that led. I agree with Boba Fett on this one. If you tried to redo the education system, you would have a bunch of people who don't have a proper education and that might mess up the nation. Those people would be working at low-income jobs for the rest of their lives. Low-income jobs bite, trust me. Besides, if the way they sorted people into grades, some people would be in the same grade for years. Maturity and intelligence have a place in schools, but it isn't the most important. You can be as dumb as a box of rocks and pass.
Example: One of my friends studied for tests and paid someone else to do his homework. He get all B's on his report card. That's not a sign of maturity or intelligence. Just good study habits, people skills, and some money.

If you're a teacher, I pity the nation...[/COLOR]

[sailor firestar]

You should have some way of supporting everything you say. All your opinions should be solid; they should be based in fact.

Not so young grasshopper, if everything were based in fact where would new ideas come from? I'm not saying I can't defend myself, I find it unnecessary when I'm not really trying to accomplish anything. I come here for entertainment not drama. Of course, there are advantages to apathy. You can't make me mad, just make me think which is a welcome change. Adults are so dreary & while I love my fifth graders for their purity you high school kids have so much more passion. :smirk:

[sailor firestar]

[quote name='Farto the Magic][COLOR=DarkRed']Hm. Lenin was an idealist and a visionary and look where that led. [/COLOR][/quote]

No darling, Lenin was a social revolutionary. He [I]did[/I] things. And in case you haven't been paying attention I've clearly stated that none of you are in any danger of being (mis)educated because of me. Entertain some ideas of anarchy for a change. You know where I got them? My 74 year old Educational Theory professor during my Masters' degree. Don't knock it till ya tried it. :p