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I can't believe I'm saying this... Abortion is something that isn't right, but it is at the same time. Everyone see's it from a differnet side, it's two sides of the same coin. I see that it is right, but wrong.

When Transtic said that we kill dear for fun, that might be true, and when I think deathknigh (not sure) said that It's for food, but do you know why hunting is allowed? It's because the deer pupulation is rising on an extreme level, we go out and kill them and do whatever we want with them once they are dead. But it is better to kill a deer with a gun that run it over in the road, finding it in you back yard and things like that. So what I'm saying that abortion has one good affect on the world. When there is an abortian there is one less mouth to feed, clothe, and use our only natural resoruces on. The human population in genral rises by about (can't remember the exact no.) million or more every 10 years. Of course this is just one reason, mothers might not be able to handle a child and what else you stated which I will not go in to again.

You may think that my thinking is cruel, yes it is, I know. My cousin almost had an abortian. She would be dead, the world would never know the wonder that she was, and the beuaty. I would never know her. It's curel to take a life, but if it's for the best, which is hard to see when you eyes are shut by personal feeling and experinces, you must try as hard as you can two see both sides of this complex coin.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SSJ5 Vegeta [/i]
[B]And Transtic you are well opiniated but your opinions make no sense. I only hunt creatures to eat them, I don't really hunt anymore though, but how can you compare killing an animal for food, with killing a baby for no reason? There's no comparison there. How would like it if you were walking down the street and I just shot you dead. You'd never have a chance. That's exactly what abortion is. And you wouldn't feel the same now if you were that baby laying in a plastic bucket. Actually you'd be dead now think about that. Abortion is murder, it may be seen as righteous to some people and all this bull, but that baby is a human and killing it is wrong. Just to think... Every 20 seconds another person is murdered that could be the next president, or maybe someday in the future create a cure for aids, or get rid of pollution. [/B][/QUOTE]

My opinions are perfectly clear... Perhaps you should read them again and again.... perhaps they are too complex for you.... the comparison made is a metaphore.... The same people who argue pro life take it away for their own selfish greed. You hunt animals, to me thats wrong, you are killing! Humans are animals too! Just more developed.

But to go on your logic, if I ate humans to keep myself alive would that make it right to walk up and shoot you? No... so don't use that BS reasoning...

How the hell can you people not get it... ABORTION IS NOT MURDER BECAUSE YOU CAN'T KILL SOMETHING THAT ISN'T ALIVE!

You state babies are the work of god.... and animals aren't? What kinda BS is that? Animals are just as much a work of God as you are.... BTW: babies are the work of sperm... unless you consider sperm to be god, then whatever. God doesn't implant babies... in fact I fail to see where god has any process in making a baby. Sperm gets in egg, process in egg makes baby grow, due to genetic or physical doings, a babies health may be changed.... I see no God in there... it's all the work of a human and the insides of a human. Babies are the works of Humans... Humans create Humans, just like animals create animals. And no, I don't read the bible for I do not believe a book written by HUMANS has anything to do with what God meant for it to be.

I'd rather be an animal than a stupid human. At least animals can learn to coexist with each other. At least animals don't hate other animals. It seems to me by killing an animal you are killing something better than yourself. Animals have feelings to you know. If you killed my cat, I'd cry and weep over it. I consider my cats to be my family, My babies. They mean more to me than alot of humans do.

It's not that I'm for abortion, it's that I simply can't understand your reasoning on "Abortion is Murder".... you all need to look up the damn word Murder in the dictionary.

Murder: The act of killing
Killing: The act of ending one's life
Life: the act of living!

Are first trimester fetus's living? NO! thus proove right there, Abortion is not murder... pick another word!
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you take the life of a unborn child with the potential to... do anything.... you murder them... you end their life even before it starts...

You could have just ended the person to discover acure to aids...

or the next president...

the next father...

the next scholar...

the next fireman...

the next architect...

Every person counts, unborn children are people.

Murder: The act of Ending a Life

the unborn child has a life...

it has a heart.... thats beating as yours does...
and a brain.. working as yours does...
and it bleeds when you kill it...
as you would bleed....
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathKnight [/i]
[B]you take the life of a unborn child with the potential to... do anything.... you murder them... you end their life even before it starts...

You could have just ended the person to discover acure to aids...

or the next president...

the next father...

the next scholar...

the next fireman...

the next architect...

Every person counts, unborn children are people.

Murder: The act of Ending a Life

the unborn child has a life...

it has a heart.... thats beating as yours does...
and a brain.. working as yours does...
and it bleeds when you kill it...
as you would bleed.... [/B][/QUOTE]

Thats false... if I woman were to give natural child birth withint the first trimester the baby would be dead... it's not developed... it's brain is not developed, it's hard doesn't pump the blood as mine does... it doesn't even have adequate limbs or even a SEX at that time... it's an it.... not a life....

By killing trees you are killing off the one thing that provides us with Oxygen.... I mean, hello! We need living trees to survive and yet people are killing them for their own selfish greed for land. Plants could cure deseases to, but we are killing them. Animals could evolve into a more developed species which could help us inthe future or we could use animal parts or fluids or something from animals in medicines... like rattle snake venom is used as an atidote for venom bites... kill the rattle snakes you don't got anymore antidotes.... Animals are used alot too you know... killing them in no better....

by killing an animal, you could be depriving their family of a member, perhaps a mom or a dad

Or you could be depriving them of a future leader of a pack or a group of them.

Watch the Lion King? you should.... great movie, besides the fact it's made by Disney.... or even better, watch Bamby.... you don't think animals have feelings when their parents, siblings, or friends are killed? And these people are fully grown, unlike a fetus which isn't... it's not even alive.
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Guest Master O Beans
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]

My opinions are perfectly clear... Perhaps you should read them again and again.... perhaps they are too complex for you.... the comparison made is a metaphore.... The same people who argue pro life take it away for their own selfish greed. You hunt animals, to me thats wrong, you are killing! Humans are animals too! Just more developed.

But to go on your logic, if I ate humans to keep myself alive would that make it right to walk up and shoot you? No... so don't use that BS reasoning...

[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah Trans, [I]usually[/I] you say really smart things that make you think... but this is just utter bullsh!t. You're really far out on that limb with this statement...it's the kind of retaliation someone in elementary school would make...but...erm...maybe next time kiddo :D
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Master O Beans [/i]
[B]

Yeah Trans, [I]usually[/I] you say really smart things that make you think... but this is just utter bullsh!t. You're really far out on that limb with this statement...it's the kind of retaliation someone in elementary school would make...but...erm...maybe next time kiddo :D [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to be smart.... I'm trying to make some kinda metaphor to you all.... animals are just like humans... to me an animal is valued just the same.... and his statement to eat animals is why he hunts them..... so I said, if I ate humans would that make it ok..... it's not meant to be smart, it's meant to make you think about what you said. Animals are the same as humans.... to me at least, I dunno about you other people. to hunt an animal is as if you are hunting a human. I just changed the subject of his logic.

Whats not smart is the fact none of you know anything about first trimester abortions.... the fact the fetus isn't alive, and thus due to that you cannot kill something that isn't alive.... the word "murder" in this case is false.... you all need ot be smart and get a dictionary.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathKnight [/i]
[B]Animals dont have the potential to become anything more than they are....

humans have the potential to be great...

in the bible god gave Man authority over the wild creatures of the earth.... [/B][/QUOTE]

The bible is also written by Humans... what did you expect?

I don't believe in the bible... those logics don't work on me... find something not dealing with religion to throw at me and then I'll listen. If you are gonna hide behind a book then you are weak.... speak for yourself not what a book tells you to do.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathKnight [/i]
[B]God Blessed the Humans that wrote the bible....

I Speak for Myself... [/B][/QUOTE]

It's your choice.... quoting or paraphrasing the bible is not speaking for yourself.

God blessed imperfect beings. Just curious, how do you know God blessed these people? Is it because you read it in the bible?.... hell if I wrote the bible, I'd tell people God blessed me too... doesn't mean he/she did....

You can take the ideals of religion and form your own thoughts.... but don't base everything you think off of a religin and expect me to think it's right.... not everybody believes in the the bible, i for example, and thus your ideals are never going to be right to anyone except the people that fall under the same category as you. Thus I do not understand where you come from because I am not in that category.... probably the same reason you cannot understand my point of view.... so I guess it won't work... so shall we move on with our lives? I see no reason to continue this further...
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people!

everything happens for a reason. all things are destined.

the heart begins beating at 8 weeks from conception. therefore, anything beyond that is murder. also, like i said, from the moment of conception, prana runs throught the baby. from that point, it is alive.

any of you who condone abortion have never seen a d&c performed. you have never seen the torn limbs of babies & their blood lying in trash cans. you have never seen a severed head found in the dumpster out back behind the clinic.
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Desert Shadow used to have a sig...

[B]Abortion: [/B] [I]Noun[/I]; See [B]Murder.[/B]

In any case...

I'm pro-life. But does that really say much? I mean, no one is going to go around saying that they are [i]Pro-Murder[/i], or [i]Anti-Life[/i], or [i]Anti-Choice[/i]. Eh... Is abortion really murder? No. As Transtic keeps saying, you can't kill something that isn't alive.

There's just something about human life--or the potential thereof--that makes people squeamish about terminating it.
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I am pro-life as well. I would consider myself a pacifist, and I believe any type of killing can not solve anything. However, if a woman is raped, I believe that the child should be put in a home until somebody adopts it. I also believe this crime should follow severe punishment on the father. He should not be allowed to see his child until the court has confirmed he is stable enough to see it. He should also have to pay a ridiculous amount of child support. This crime should not be tolerated.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Nothing674 [/i]
[B]I am pro-life as well. I would consider myself a pacifist, and I believe any type of killing can not solve anything. However, if a woman is raped, I believe that the child should be put in a home until somebody adopts it. I also believe this crime should follow severe punishment on the father. He should not be allowed to see his child until the court has confirmed he is stable enough to see it. He should also have to pay a ridiculous amount of child support. This crime should not be tolerated. [/B][/QUOTE]

You actually think a person who raped a woman should even be able to see the child produced?

Rape is, to me, one of the worst things anyone could ever do. No man diserves to live after he does that. The emotional trauma put onto a woman after rape... my god it's horrifying.... one of my friends was rape... and now, if you touch her on her neck she absolutely freaks out... it horrific to see someone like that. No man diserves to even be allowed to see the light of day agin after he commits such an act. They are scum of the earth and they diserve nothing but their own vomit to sleep in. Rape is a disgusting act.... absolutely digusting!
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DeathKnight [/i]
[B]I think all women who have abortions dont deserve to live afterwards....
[/B][/QUOTE]

hey now. that's like believing in the death penalty. which i don't. some women are tricked, some are coerced. sometimes it's not their fault. my best friend had an abortion. it was b/c her lover said he would leave her if she didn't. he was a total liar.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Macaiodh [/i]
[B]

you're [I]proud[/I] of that? if so, then you're brainwashed.

no offense meant. i used to be brainwashed myself. [/B][/QUOTE]

ayo! im in texas.

my momma told me abortion was wrong. if i was a woman and some drunk punk impregnanted me, i wouldnt have an abortion. if raise my child, get on welfare, and my with luck the child will be a important person.

i feel sorry for anyone who condones abortion....and i thought i had a sick mind...
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B]

My opinions are perfectly clear... Perhaps you should read them again and again.... perhaps they are too complex for you.... the comparison made is a metaphore.... The same people who argue pro life take it away for their own selfish greed. You hunt animals, to me thats wrong, you are killing! Humans are animals too! Just more developed.

But to go on your logic, if I ate humans to keep myself alive would that make it right to walk up and shoot you? No... so don't use that BS reasoning...

How the hell can you people not get it... ABORTION IS NOT MURDER BECAUSE YOU CAN'T KILL SOMETHING THAT ISN'T ALIVE!

You state babies are the work of god.... and animals aren't? What kinda BS is that? Animals are just as much a work of God as you are.... BTW: babies are the work of sperm... unless you consider sperm to be god, then whatever. God doesn't implant babies... in fact I fail to see where god has any process in making a baby. Sperm gets in egg, process in egg makes baby grow, due to genetic or physical doings, a babies health may be changed.... I see no God in there... it's all the work of a human and the insides of a human. Babies are the works of Humans... Humans create Humans, just like animals create animals. And no, I don't read the bible for I do not believe a book written by HUMANS has anything to do with what God meant for it to be.

I'd rather be an animal than a stupid human. At least animals can learn to coexist with each other. At least animals don't hate other animals. It seems to me by killing an animal you are killing something better than yourself. Animals have feelings to you know. If you killed my cat, I'd cry and weep over it. I consider my cats to be my family, My babies. They mean more to me than alot of humans do.

It's not that I'm for abortion, it's that I simply can't understand your reasoning on "Abortion is Murder".... you all need to look up the damn word Murder in the dictionary.

Murder: The act of killing
Killing: The act of ending one's life
Life: the act of living!

Are first trimester fetus's living? NO! thus proove right there, Abortion is not murder... pick another word! [/B][/QUOTE]

[color=darkblue][size=1]I agree with you, Transtic.

This is obviously a very emotive issue for a lot of people. And some people have some seriously screwed up views on the subject.

While I've argued for abortion, that's only because most of the criticism which has come against it here is in the form of some pretty crappy arguments.

If a baby were to be aborted after the first trimester (when it is still in development and is not actually a living being), I would be far less supportive.

So I am in a way, a fence sitter. While I don't totally support abortion in every form, I also understand that women must have the right to choose and that in some circumstances, abortion might be an option for them.

But I'm relatively open on the subject. Just don't quote the bible and all that other stuff to me because if anything, it's only going to make me more pro-abortion lol. People need to come up with more reasonable arguments (as some have). But really, my opinion can go either way...it all depends on the specific circumstances that a woman finds herself in.[/color][/size]
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alright, the main reason why this is an issue is because of our society. teen age girls will go and have sex and get pregnant while theyre at it. the best way for them to not have a baby, but keep having sex is to get an abortion whenever they get pregnant. this actually goes for all the women in the world that are like that. teenagers will get abortions without parent consent. now they want to illegalize it so that will stop.

it was MEANT for emergencies. like if a woman would die from child brith. it was meant for adults who thoroughly thought the decision over and together with their doctor and spouse decided that abortion was the appropriate action and responsible choice for their situation. it was no way intended to be what it is now.

im still undecided about making it illegal. it would stop the bad stuff, but it could SAVE lives if used appropriately.thats just my insight though.
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