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Justin

Heavy Metal: A Head Banger's Discussion Thread

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I'd like to launch the official Otaku heavy metal discussion thread. This is a comprehensive thread, to discuss all things metal; but I'd like to focus on broad subjects. Subjects such as 'the nature of metal and where it came from'. Or, 'where it's going'. Another example would be 'why is it so misunderstood?' Perhaps, "what would you consider (un)acceptable as metal?"

I say that to avoid wasteful album reviews or band reviews such as: "Arch enemy's new record sucks." Or, " I like the old Trivium style better than the new."

Reviews and opinions are of course welcome, but I'd like to see them be intelligent, in depth reviews. Preferably from someone who has studied the music.

All that said, I'll kick it off with a burning thought in my mind:

Where, by your estimation, do you think metal is headed? And, do you like that direction?

I'll also answer first:

The genre itself is ever-changing. Even in the last five years, it has evolved into new, or at least altered, sub-genres. In America, the vast majority of these progressions, or digressions, have occurred within the almost exclusively American sub-genre of metalcore.

Some noteworthy contributors have been the infamously popular Killswitch Engage, their Christian and, in my opinion, more metal counterparts As I Lay Dying, the newly radio-ized Atreyu, and a slough of others that have sprung up based on the success of this popular genre.

I think that metalcore is, quite literally, the forebear of the new pop metal. I can't say what the aesthetics of this new wave will be, but look at the fashion oriented scene surrounding it. Now, remember hair metal. There you go.

The signs are there. The popular rock bands of today generally fall somewhere between nu-metal and metalcore, and they'll soon start to get stale. The bloated hip-POP culture is not far off from its final days as a dominant force. And I think metalcore with be standing right there to replace the two. That's with two-tone hair, tight pants, and eyeliner in toe.

Thoughts?

-Justin

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[COLOR="Olive"]Well, my friend said that research shows a mass mjority of Teenagers like Rap. Glad as hell, I'm not one of them. Now I've been getting into death metal more recently, Dummu Borgir, Opeth, Dethklok, Children of Bodom, Arch Enemy... I could go on. But my favorite sub-genre would be alternative metal, becasue it gets a lot of radio play, even though soem don't see it. And radio play is improtant. When media comes to play, people find out about stuff. And we all know that knowledge is power. So knowing that metal exists, is making it gain power in today's world.

The underground scene has atists that are more amazing, but they dont get much recognition. And they should. Why? So metal can return to the masses! I want to watch Headbanger's Ball at 5 or 6 PM on weekdays. I don't want Sucker Free Rap **** on my TV. ****, Fuse has gone to the shitter becasue of rap. Plus, Metal, or any type of rock for that matter, is very good andcan show artistic value better than "My hoes" or crap like that. RAP, Retards Attemtping Poetry. Now people like Mike Shinoda of Linkin park have made rap easier to listen to. But all alone in the crowd; rap sucks. well actually it's mostly Hip-Hop. But I feel no dfifference should be given.

But I see your point that Metalcore is bringing to us what metal brought to the 80's.

Now metal gives me a feeling of peace, even when the lyrics are vilatn in nature. but they're just Lyrics. if anyone ahs seen the video to Serj Tankian's Empty Walls, you'd seethat metal can have political meaning. So you should listen to every style's views and points.

Now if you have seen the video it seems that Serj thinks down on the war. From what I get, he finds it to be 'child's play.' And Serj is a great man in the rock industry.

Jake has stated that Nu Metal isn't metal at all. Even if it is fact, I disagree. It's Nu [B]Metal[/B], and it's helping to bring metal back. Disturbed has fair radio play, and they're Nu metal. Whether fact or opinion, Nu Metal IS Metal.

Metal of all kinds should be appreciated in thsi world. Like it or not Metal is here to stay. Now, I wish to continue my rant on how much I apreciate music like this. So I will... in my next post.[/COLOR]

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[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Rev, you're listening to Opeth?! AND YOU NEVER MENTIONED THIS?! March your *** back o the pretentious thread! And anyway, they aren't Death Metal, and neither are Demon Burger or Elect the Dead (Serj) (meaning he's not metal, period). Opeth are what Jake has claimed to be EXTREME PROGRESSIVE METAL which is fine with me because they are nothing like Death Metal at all. Opeth are one of the most amazing bands out there and deserve all the fanbase they have (uneducated as the fans may be).

Metal bands I like include: Tool (opinions very on wether they are, in fact), Agalloch (2nd Most amazing band ever), ISIS, Opeth, Mastodon, Dethklok, Dragonforce (Jake can ***** all he wants, they've got POWER), and perhaps Dream Theater (r they metal?) then there's Woods of Ypres and Ensiferum whom I've not heard enough of, and I have no idea what genre The Sound of Animals Fighting is, so I don't know if they fit here. [/COLOR]

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[COLOR="Olive"]Well, I've tangoed once or twice. But yeah, Opeth Rockseth my soxeth. I could always aks my cousin for a copy. I think he has one? But they have talent for sure. maybe I should get an album from them instead of Elect the Dead. [EDIT: Actually I will.]

Dragonforce is going to be on GH3, liek ZOMG! Over 5 minutes of mind-bending metal.

Well, if Serj isn't metal, then SOAD was, and they are just as amazing.

Tool is great as well. I also love Cuntry Boner by Puscifer. Prison Sex is awesome, Schism is da shizz, **** I could go on. And Mastadon... god. Blood & Thunder just blew me away. Beautiful...[/COLOR]

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[font=arial][size=1]C'mon Rev, just delete your post [Edit: lol, both of them], we don't need another rant from the Viking Lord of the 'Boards.

As far back as I care to look, the beginning of Nu-Metal was when Anthrax teamed up with Public Enemy for the song "Bring the Noise." That's about when they broke out into the public and bands like Limp Bizkit (or however it's spelled) started copying them to gain fame. Of course, anytime something gets that popular, it gets washed out into pop music, just look at the wave of grunge music that Black Flag's album [i]My War[/i] started. I can understand early Nu-Metal being categorized as a sub-genre of metal, but say... Atreyu's new stuff? Disturbed? Slipknot? That stuff's not even CLOSE to metal, it's more associated with grunge, if anything.

On top of that, there's metalcore. It's a bunch of guys who should be playing punk but want to play heavy chugging riffs. I absolutely HATE most of these bands because they tend to be made up creatively stagnant or otherwise untalented high school drop-outs copying eachother. You have the popular ones like Killswitch Engage (who SUCK), and then there's thousands of bands who sound exactly like them with slight variations.

As far as what I like about metal, I'm not too into cultural melodies in it. That's more of a punk thing to me. If I'm going to listen to metal, it's gotta be something that kicks my ***, like High on Fire. Actually, if you haven't heard them, look up their myspace, and check out the song "Devilution," that's everything I like about metal right there.

I also like really technical metal like Behold... the Arctopus, Dysrhythmia, and Canvas Solaris. In face, Arctopus' new cd is AMAZING. I was mouthing "holy ****!" all the way through it. It's too bad real talent doesn't make money.[/font][/size]

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[QUOTE]C'mon Rev, just delete your post [Edit: lol, both of them], we don't need another rant from the Viking Lord of the 'Boards.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Olive"]You are charming in the least.

Killswitch Engage is horrible.That's all I have to say about them. Slipknot, come one, you guys smell like DB's right hand after an all night Loli-convention. [/COLOR]

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[font=arial][size=1]Okay, Revolver, I'll play.

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]
Well, if Serj isn't metal, then SOAD was, and they are just as amazing.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Just because you think a band is "amazing" doesn't mean they're metal. Being metal has nothing to do with talent or how much people like you. In fact, SOAD is a perfect example of what Nu-Metal is in its clearest definition.

[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]
Dragonforce is going to be on GH3, liek ZOMG! Over 5 minutes of mind-bending, *** pulverizing, gut-wrenching metal. Mi hormons are rising.[/color][/quote]
[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=MIleK5CRcjo[/url]
[/font][/size]

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[COLOR="Olive"]Quick def of Nu Metal

[QUOTE][COLOR="olive"]Nu metal[/COLOR] is a musical genre that typically fuses influences from grunge and alternative metal of the 1990s with funk music, hip-hop, and various [B]heavy metal[/B] genres, such as [B]thrash metal [/B]and [B]groove metal[/B]. It has origins in the mid 1990s.[/QUOTE]

If it's not metal, then why is it called Nu METAL?

See why genre is a stupid classification and why it shouldn't have sub-genre's. [/COLOR]

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[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]
See why genre is a stupid classification and why it shouldn't have sub-genre's. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[font=arial][size=1]I'm sorry you don't understand genres, maybe you should stop trying to use them.[/font][/size]

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[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Rev, you're aware "nu" means "NOT", right? And for the last god ****ing damn time Disturbed ain't Nu Metal, and stop getting so offended by the term - Nu Metal doesn't mean terrible, it just means "Not Metal". I love SOAD myself, but I know they aren't metal!

Face, I'm gunna listen to those bands you mentioned, too >_> I needs Jake here tough for some real great recs...[/COLOR]

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[COLOR="Olive"]No matter what Jake says, I will respect him. He is way better than any of us. [spoiler]Disturbed is *coughnumetalcough* check out *coughcoughwikicoughcough*[/spoiler]

Why not discuss... Opeth I guess. What albums of theirs are the best. We need to sway from the genre battles that these threads seem to go to ALL THE TIME.[/COLOR]

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[font=arial][size=1]What? Mine aren't good enough? [i]Jerk![/i] :p

I could post some specific albums for you to check out in your spare time. Here's a small list.

[u]Stoner/Sludge Metal[/u]
High on Fire - Blessed Black Wings (edit: I had "Qings," that's funny)
Isis - The Red Sea
Kylesa - Kylesa
Kylesa - Time Will Fuse Its Worth
Saviours - Crucifire

[u]Technical/Math/Instrumental Metal[/u]
Behold... the Arctopus - Skullgrid
Dysrhythmia - Barriers and Passages
Canvas Solaris - Sublimation

And I mean, half of OB's opinion of metal is Jake's. We all know what he likes, here's his last.fm: [url]http://www.last.fm/user/Vargablod/[/url]

You can just go down the list one by one and just have a week-long metalgasm.
(he even has himself listed on there! What a douche!)[/font][/size]

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[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Listened to a song by High on Fire and it sucked total ***. I'm surprised you like something like that.

Isis kicks ***, I know that. I listened to some Dysrhythmia and they were pretty good, currently listening to Canvas Solaris and a minute into the first song I already love it.

Anyway, it's not that your recs aren't special, I just trust Jake since he introduced me to half of my favorite bands >_>[/COLOR]

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[font=arial][size=1]I personally don't like the vocals of High on Fire, but they match well with the music at least. I just love the constant assault that they are able to pull off with one guitarist and one bassist. Blessed Black Wings is an experience, not all the songs sound like that, but "Devilution" is intense right from the beginning with the opening drums.

I wonder what song you heard.

And also, the Isis record I recommended is an older one, it isn't their post-metal stuff, it's definitely face-meltingly heavy. They have three solid tracks on there and the rest are demos of songs that were never really released anywhere else.

And these are Jake's bands, I hate talking for him when he's not around:
[url]http://www.myspace.com/gallowbraid[/url]
[url]http://www.myspace.com/elderfrost[/url]
[/font][/size]

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[COLOR="DarkOrange"]lol, Devilution actually was the song I heard XD Anyway, yes I know that about Isis. I've got Oceanic, Panopticon (remember the rp I did?), and the new one who's name escapes me. I've only heard the title track of the Red Sea - it's less my style but good nonetheless.[/COLOR]

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Good lord... by the way you guys talk about me, it's as if I've become some sort of mythological figure. Which, quite frankly, I'm totally okay with.

Thanks for whoring out my music, Kevin. It is indeed appreciated. Did you check out the new Gallowbraid song, btw?

And DB, I thought you knew better than to call Tool a metal band! I'm disappointed.

As for Revolver...

:animesigh

Kevin wasn't being charming. He was simply trying to protect you. Lucky for you, I'm having an excellent day. I know I'm far past due for a spectacular metal-related rant of Odinic proportions, but today is not the day.

Nu-Metal is not metal. The term was coined by the metal community in the early nineties as a joke - a mockery of the emerging fad of combining grunge, alt-rock, and hip-hop. The term itself literally means "not metal". That should clear up why the word metal is in the genre's title but not the genre's music.

Secondly, NEVER LEARN ABOUT MUSIC THROUGH WIKIPEDIA.

Here, use this: [url]www.metal-archives.com[/url]

The Metal Archives, or Encyclopedia Metallum is an online database of every single metal band that's ever officially released material. It is maintained by members of the true metal community, and submissions are very rigorously screened before being allowed on the site.

Basically, if it's metal, it's in the archives. If it's not, it's not. That might help.

The only non-metal they include is either metalcore that is influenced more by metal than punk, non-metal side projects of musicians from important metal bands.

I have plenty, PLENTY more to add to this thread, as any regs know full well, but I have to leave or I'll be late for a previous engagement. Expect much more, and be prepared to discuss. But please, for Thor's sake, keep it intelligent.

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[COLOR="Olive"]Phew, at least I'm not cowarring behind a veil of self-pity, denial and urine. >_>
And I figure Tool is hmmm, Alternative Rock? Alt Metal? I. Do. Not. Know.

Weird, no one has ever taken the time to explain if Alternative Metal is a class in metal or not. I'd love to have tha explained for me.

EDIT: For Thor's sake? Please Jake, reach higher on the pantheon. For Odin's sake sounds cooler. For Odin's Sake, good band name.[/COLOR]

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[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]Phew, at least I'm not cowarring behind a veil of self-pity, denial and urine. >_>
And I figure Tool is hmmm, Alternative Rock? Alt Metal? I. Do. Not. Know.

Weird, no one has ever taken the time to explain if Alternative Metal is a class in metal or not. I'd love to have tha explained for me.

EDIT: For Thor's sake? Please Jake, reach higher on the pantheon. For Odin's sake sounds cooler. For Odin's Sake, good band name.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I thought Tool was Progressive metal. Wait does that even exist? Is that just Hard Progressive rock? I dunno the whole metal sub genre thing confuses the hell out of me. You need like a ****ing doctrine in musical studies to almost understand it. Either way Tool is awesome. Metal,Country,Christian Rap or whatever they are.

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[font=arial][size=1]Tool is a Progressive Rock band, but their fans are stupid and call it Progressive Metal. Whatever. The "metal" that they're talking about is probably more derived from Nu-Metal than Metal, and we've had that discussion. Progressive Rock is a confusing genre to begin with, so I won't even go there.

And to clear up stuff about Alternative Metal, it refers to stuff such as Soundgarden and Faith No More. It's basically metallic music that you hear on the radio, but isn't really Nu-Metal. I guess what sets this apart is the lack of some sort of screaming in the vocals (ooooo wah-ah-ah-ah!). This stuff probably doesn't fall under Jake's definition of metal either, but I much enjoy the two bands I mentioned. If you don't like Soundgarden in particular, I don't know what's wrong with you.

Why is it that in every discussion about Metal we get wrapped up in what genre things are, etc. There should be something of a guideline, but at the same time, it's not something we should base this whole thread by. Genres are boring and they don't do much except cause arguments. For Thor's sake, guys.[/font][/size]

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[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Prem, it's people like you who make us create these ****ing genres. NOBODY likes genre specifying. It sucks *** and it defiles the music. However, when uneducated bastards who listen to ****** music try to group themselves with you, it's like "****, well, they don't sound like that ****, they must be another genre."

Edit: >_> thanks for deleting your post so I look like a total douche...[/COLOR]

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[COLOR="Olive"]Anyways, has anyone ever heard of Disciple? I was flipping through the XM channels when I reached the Christian Rock station. Low and behold I heard Christian metal for the first time ever. I must say Disciple was so so but the music interested me. How can it be the devils music when it's for and about god? I mean I hear Christians scream all the time, but never like this.

A good song iwould have to be the Sacriligious Scorn by Dimmu Borgir. lLve the song, even though it's not the best Dimmu song. And that gal from Arch Enemy... WHOA. wouldn't want to make her mad. But Arch Enemy is good I guess.

EDIT: Your welcome DB. :p[/COLOR]

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[quote name='Revolver'][COLOR="Olive"]Anyways, has anyone ever heard of Disciple? I was flipping through the XM channels when I reached the Christian Rock station. Low and behold I heard Christian metal for the first time ever. I must say Disciple was so so but the music interested me. How can it be the devils music when it's for and about god? I mean I hear Christians scream all the time, but never like this.

A good song iwould have to be the Sacriligious Scorn by Dimmu Borgir. love the song, even though it's not the best Dimmu song. And that gal from Arch Enemy... WHOA. wouldn't want to make her mad. But Arch Enemy is good I guess.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]
Oi. When it comes to screaming chick metal, I've always been more scared of Otep, lol. I saw her (band) in concert with Static X and they were only okay - the 2 singles which I liked were about the only good songs - Warhead is always great. Nice video and catchy song with great screams.

As for Demon Burger? Never been all that interested, I've heard actually more than one song by them using the line 'I am hatred, darkness and despair' repeatedly, and that's just stupid to hear all the damn time. Their music isn't very good, but I'm okay the song Puritania (I believe?) just cuz it's trippy >_> As Jake said, "at leas they're better than ****ing Cradle"[/COLOR]

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