Katie!

Movies
The Dark Knight Rises

17 posts in this topic

[center][img]http://cmagz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/batman_the_dark_knight_rises_movie_wallpaper-333x500.jpg[/img]

[b]Synopsis[/b]
Eight years after the events of The Dark Knight, the terrorist leader Bane arrives in Gotham City, pushing it and its police force to their limits, forcing its former hero Batman to resurface after taking the fall for Harvey Dent's crimes.

[b]Trailers[/b]
[url="http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/wb/thedarkknightrises/"]Trailers[/url][/center]

I am so flipping excited for the release of this movie, especially with the new trailer being released. I'm not sure how I feel about some of the Inception cast coming into this movie, but it IS Christopher Nolan, so I should probably just let him do his thang. Batman is my favorite superhero and I absolutely adore what C Nolz (I can call him this, because we are best friends) did for the franchise. Definitely my favorite series of all time.

What do you guys think? Gonna see it?

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Well, I am pretty sure everyone is gonna see it... I don't know if it will be as good as Dark Knight... but its hard to top that.

I do love Bane, and the trailer was cool... I am really unsure about the 8 years later thing... that is a lot of time. I know he would have to run from the police if he resurfaced, but Gordon knows he is innocent, so he still has basically the same relationship as the animated series.

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[quote name='CaNz' timestamp='1324340658' post='710660']
Well, I am pretty sure everyone is gonna see it...
[/quote]
[color="#0000ff"]I second this. I wasn't even a huge Batman fan to begin with but I was excited about seeing Dark Knight and I loved it. I think it's too early to comment on this topping its predecessor but I think we can all agree that it's likely to be great either way.[/color]

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[quote name='Petie' timestamp='1325094538' post='710791']
[color="#0000ff"]I second this. I wasn't even a huge Batman fan to begin with but I was excited about seeing Dark Knight and I loved it. I think it's too early to comment on this topping its predecessor but I think we can all agree that it's likely to be great either way.[/color]
[/quote]

[size="1"]Ditto. I actually prefer Marvel over DC but I really love these movies so I'll be seeing it.[/size]

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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g8evyE9TuYk[/media]

that is all.

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I'm excited for this movie. I've been a huge batman fan for most of my life. (mainly I prefer marvel but....) I've enjoyed the other new installments. This movie will be so awesome!

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TOTALLY excited! I've loved Batman, from the ridiculous to the dramatic, since childhood! Nolan's interpretations so far are highly dramatic, ultra-serious and visually gorgeous! But yeah, it'll be hard to top the previous movie because Ledger's Joker was so nicely developed and Eckhart's Harvey Dent was left in such a damaged state (literally and figuratively), but in the end became the martyr and Batman became the pariah..so..epic. (:

Anyway..so glad I'm going to the midnight premiere at a theatre! WOOHOOOOO! :D

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Good old super hero. Ever since watching The Dark Knights, well I can't wait to get to see this movie in this july, haha time is going fast! :)

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My boyfriend and I know the owner of a comic book store here, and he was able to rent out the theater for an 8 o' clock showing(before the midnight premier).

I was really looking forward to it, but I was really dissappointed. Most of the people who saw it with us didn't like it either. Granted this are mostly comic buffs and whatnot, so they will nit-pick it like crazy, but I really didn't read the comics and I thought it was horrible. The critics raved about it, and I don't know why! The first two were amazing too!

Bane was annoying throughout the whole film, he sounded like Sean Connery(which would have been awesome, but it wasn't). Sorry, I will say no more. XD

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I think it's good... I've seen the movie and I think the complaints of the viewers who didn't like it is because they thought that it's a continuation of the first movie.... As an analogy it's like Transformers 2 where the movie started with a huge gap and where most will ask a lot of questions.

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[quote name='SaiyanPrincessX' timestamp='1343009352' post='712209']
I thought it was horrible. [/quote]

girl, you cray

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[quote name='The Spectacular Professor' timestamp='1343071712' post='712212']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive]I liked it better than the other two. Am I exiled from society now?[/font]
[/quote]

Absolutely. You are no longer tolerated. :happy:

In other news, my cat was pawing at the girl walking in you're signature.

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[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Finally got around to seeing TDKR. Overall, I found it to be pretty mediocre. My thoughts below are kind of jumbled, and some parts aren't written very well, so bear with me.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][b]Miranda Tate[/b]. The Talia bit is only formally revealed in the last 10 minutes of the movie. And the entire characterization is crap, basically. There's nothing of the off-on strained romance that Bruce and Talia share in pretty much the entire LoS continuity. Nothing. At all.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]As "Miranda," she gets close to Bruce, gains his trust, etc, which fits pretty well as Talia, but a huge part of the Bruce/Talia relationship entirely exists BECAUSE Bruce knows she's Ra's' daughter, and BECAUSE Talia knows about Bruce's history with the LoS.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]By saving the Talia reveal for the end, it removes a lot of that character depth, and at that point, all it does is little more than turn Talia into a completely normal comic book villain who wants to destroy Gotham out of revenge.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And Talia dies like a completely normal comic book villain. And has a mini-speech like a completely normal comic book villain as she dies.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I've always trusted Nolan's instincts, but here they completely missed the target. Talia [i]isn't[/i] a normal comic book villain, and she never was. In a lot of ways, she was actually one of Bruce/Bats' strongest allies, even though she was technically also one of his strongest enemies.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][b]Bane[/b]. The whole thing reminds me of Darth Vader BEFORE James Earl Jones or ED-209. Where David Prowse's sing-songy Irish accent or whatever always sounded completely off, even if his body language was perfect.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]But Vader worked, because Prowse nailed the feel of Vader's movement, and JEJ had the growl to match it. Prowse's movement and JEJ's growl synced up perfectly, and even though Vader's face was covered...you just knew he was pissed.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Bane's mask looks like ED-209 but there's no ED-209 growl. There's no real visual cue to know when Bane's actually talking. I was able to understand him 95% of the time, but there never was a clear sync like there was with Darth.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]They should have gone post-production and mechanized parts of Bane's voice.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Hell, the mask should have been more than just a painkiller agent. It should have also helped him speak. His throat/mouth/vocal cords should have been so damaged by whatever it was that happened (seriously, it's NEVER even explained sufficiently, and that pissed me off), that mask should have been his voicebox, basically. And it desperately, desperately needed some sort of light--something, anything--to indicate when Bane was talking.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I mean, [i]****[/i]; if a cheapo '80s TV show like Knight Rider could have a couple of crappy lightbulbs to signify when KITT was talking...why couldn't Bane's mask?[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And that's me being superficial and nitpicky, because Bane's goals throughout the film...are BACKWARDS. Seriously. He and Talia needed to swap objectives, basically. Or at least split them out better.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Bane should have completely focused on just two things:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]1) Breaking Batman[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]2) Breaking Gotham[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]That's it. Talia's goals should have been:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]1) Breaking Bruce emotionally[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]2) Breaking Bruce financially[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Instead, Bane leads a ridiculous assault on a trading floor, takes the city hostage, all so Talia can detonate a nuclear bomb in the city cause she wants revenge for the death of a man she never forgave...UNTIL BATMAN KILLED HIM ZOMG. I can kind of find logic in Bane leading the financial assault a bit since it ties into what Talia was doing, but it was so awkwardly handled that I just...no. Plus, if there's a war declared on a trading floor, they should have immediately locked down the trades and prevented any trades from going through at all. It shouldn't have mattered whether Bruce's prints were verified.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]On top of that, Bane's voice suffers from the same problem Bats' voice did in TDK: during shorter dialogue, it's fine. For speeches longer than a paragraph, it sounds silly. And most of Bane's longer speeches came from the financial assault sub-plot, or football field speech. Basically, whenever he's talking into a microphone, to a crowd, it gets real stupid, real fast. When he's one-on-one with Batman, or Talia, or random execs, it's PERFECT, because the situation allows him to be short and sweet.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And ditch the nuke completely. Just...ditch it completely.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I mean, don't get me wrong. There's definitely a lot to like in TDKR. There's a lot of really solid dialogue, some decent back-and-forth between Fox and Bruce, and the first fight between Bats and Bane (the backbreak) is absolutely stunning. JGL was fantastic, and Anne Hathaway was inspired as Selina.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Though I'm kinda salty that Selina and Bruce end up together at some random cafe or something. Their relationship always seemed pretty similar to Bruce/Talia...and a lot like pretty much all of Bruce's relationships: very off-on again, very strained. Catwoman never struck me as the kind of woman willing to settle down at all. She was always pretty fiercely independent. Hathaway definitely hit a lot of those independent notes, and I think it's why I enjoyed Pfeiffer's Catwoman so much (minus the crazy and leather, obviously)...both of their portrayals really hit at a core of the character.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And I think where TDKR missed it is where Batman Returns actually got it right: Bruce and Selina wouldn't wind up together.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I guess it's like...if Bruce is damaged goods as much as he is--and really, you'd have to be severely damaged to dress up like a bat and cruise the city at night, beating criminals to a pulp with your bare hands...getting some trim is not going to fix your deep-seated emotional issues.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][u]I'd even argue it a step further, and say that the focus on Rachel in BB/TDK was always misplaced, as well: Bruce doesn't need to find acceptance/peace in other people...he needs to find it within himself. That's the irony in this trilogy. Bruce won't find meaning for his life in other people, yet he's continually chasing just that. Rachel, Harvey, Talia, Selina...he's constantly trying to find an [b]external[/b] validation of [i]internal[/i] torment and anguish.[/u][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Can Bruce find peace? Yes. By himself. By retiring as Batman.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The rest of the movie is so uneven that it's difficult to really embrace it. Particularly with regards to superhero philosophy in the Nolan trilogy.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The way I see it, out of all of Bats' Rogues Gallery, there are maybe six characters, total, that [b]directly[/b] relate to the very core of Nolan's exploration of Batman:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]1) Ra's al Ghul[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]2) Joker[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]3) Riddler[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]4) Bane[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]5) Scarecrow[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]6) Talia al Ghul[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And really, I'd venture that those characters are the only six that directly relate to Batman's core character in the comics/graphic novels, too. The rest of the Rogues Gallery is basically C-listers that get called up into the majors so the A-listers can take a break.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]But yeah.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In BB, it was all about Fear. All about Bruce overcoming his, using it against his enemies--one of my favorite exchanges in all of cinema is:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Alfred: "But why bats, sir?"[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Bruce: "Bats frighten me, Alfred...it's about time my enemies shared my dread."[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It's [i]perfect[/i].[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In BB, Bruce created a persona, created a symbol, and ruled Fear. He took bits from both Ra's and Scarecrow and dominated. Hell, when Crane gets gassed with his fear toxin and sees Batman as some oily Middle Ages bat-demon? PERFECT. And when Batman's flying overhead, after the Narrows get gassed, people look up at him and just see a large black monster with burning red eyes? BRILLIANT. Fear, man. BB nailed it.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In TDK, it was all about Batman's limits. What he would and wouldn't do. How far he could and couldn't go. Both emotionally and physically. Well, mostly morally, at least. Joker kept trying to get him to break his One Rule. But even when Bats was being pushed to his limits, we still saw the physical toll. Bruises, scars, brutal injuries...and when Alfred mentioned them, what'd Bruce say?[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"Batman has no limits."[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"But you do, sir."[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Batman may have been emotionally broken in TDK, but he wasn't broken, physically.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Bane does break him physically in TDKR, but that whole story arc--Knightfall, I mean--where Bane focuses on Batman for the challenge...took a complete backseat to the whole financial/football field/No Man's Land plot mess. What was arguably Bane's biggest, most important philosophical hook...ended up playing second-fiddle to generic comic book movie fodder.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And you know, the more I think about it, the stronger the film would have been--and the far more relevant it would have been--if Bane had REALLY focused on breaking Batman/Gotham, and Talia had REALLY focused on breaking Bruce emotionally/financially. Remove the entire nuke plot and make the entire conflict [i]intensely[/i] personal.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Because through Bane breaking Bats/Gotham, it continues the relationship between Batman's health and Gotham's. With Batman, Gotham is a better place. Without him, it's either a cracking mask like the 8-year peace in TDKR, OR it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy like we saw in BB/TDK.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Bane focusing on Bats/Gotham emphasizes something very important:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There's gotta be a Batman.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And if Talia focused on breaking Bruce, it ties into the relationship between Batman and Wayne, in that Batman lives on even after Bruce. That you can do anything to Wayne. You can ruin him emotionally. You can stab him in the back. You can destroy his finances. But you cannot destroy the one thing you cannot touch: The Batman.[/font][/size]

[indent=1][i]Bruce Wayne: You're vigilantes.
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Henri Ducard: No, no, no. A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Bruce Wayne: Which is?[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Henri Ducard: A legend, Mr. Wayne.[/font][/size][/i][/indent]


[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Talia focusing on Bruce Wayne emphasizes something very important:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There's gotta be a Batman.[/font][/size]


[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]And Blake assuming the Bat-Mantle at the end...[i]would prove that Bane and Talia LOST[/i]. Blake assuming the Bat-Mantle proves that Joker LOST. That Scarecrow LOST. That Ra's...well that's the poetry of that, isn't it? Ra's LOST because his philosophy and advice WON.[/font][/size]


[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]But sadly, instead of really developing and exploring that, they decided to just blow up the city. :-/[/font][/size] Edited by Brasil
James and SaiyanPrincessX like this

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[font=palatino linotype]I have to agree with the vast majority of what Alex said about Bane. Not only were his motivations questionable as a general rule, but as a character he annoyed me.

I am not familiar with Bane from the comics or other mythology, so it's difficult for me to have a clear frame of reference. All I can do is judge Bane based on this film.

And on that basis... meh. Bane seems to be advancing a fairly lofty political agenda - at least ostensibly - but in the end, this essentially boils down to little more than a question of doing someone else's dirty work. Maybe I am missing something, but I felt like the air was let out of Bane's proverbial tires close to the end of the film. He was already incredibly generic to begin with, but became painfully so as the movie closed.

In terms of characterisation, I agree completely with Alex. Bane's visual representation was, for me, pretty generic and bland. I know that Heath Ledger set a very high bar - and that Joker is probably a fundamentally more interesting character - but Bane was so ridiculously sterile that, for me, I felt like I was continually waiting for his scenes to end. He just didn't strike me as interesting or terribly noteworthy.

Also, yes, his face mask... what's up with that? The presence of the mask itself utterly killed the acting, for one thing. He essentially had no varying facial expressions, and it was virtually impossible to see that he was talking, which further limited his potential for expression. Combine that with the weirdly unsatisfying voice (which was understandable only [i]most[/i] of the time, perhaps), and I felt like we were left with a bit of a dud character.

In contrast, I genuinely [i]loved[/i] Catwoman. And that, for me, was the film's biggest positive surprise. For me, Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman is equivalent to Heath Ledger as Joker. In other words, her portrayal was so brilliant and mind-numbingly [i]crazy[/i] that I couldn't imagine the almost-too-soft Anne Hathaway doing justice to the character (and perhaps I was also a bit scarred by that terrible Catwoman spin-off from a few years ago...).

In any case, both Hathaway's portrayal as well as the dialogue were pretty spot on for Catwoman I thought. Her character was nuanced and genuinely interesting, funny, sad, and with just a hint of psychopathy and nihilism to round things out. I also really liked her costume - it gave hints while being beautifully grounded in Nolan's "realistic" take. Very well done.

Speaking of this, for me... Catwoman was the star of the show. Much like Joker was the star of The Dark Knight, I think Catwoman made The Dark Knight Rises worth watching. Without these key characters, I'm not sure if either film would have interested me nearly as much.

In terms of plot, well... yeah. I largely agree with Alex's assessment. I did genuinely enjoy the ending (the twist was... eh, but everything after that was rounded out quite well). Some aspects of the film were a little too drawn-out, I think, particularly some fight sequences. And, as many have pointed out, there were quite a few logical inconsistencies throughout - although I don't really put much stock in this in terms of enjoyment. I mean, it's Batman.

Anyway, I enjoyed The Dark Knight Rises probably as much, or more, than The Dark Knight. But for me, Bane was a let down and a wasted opportunity. That really dragged down the film overall in my view. Had either Bane been more interesting - or had we seen a fundamentally more interesting and unique character to replace him - I think the movie would have fared much better, personally.[/font]

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[color=#33cc66]I actually agree that Bane was a large disappointment as a whole. I, like James, am not so well versed in the comic book lore, though I am aware Bane defeats Batman. I had lofty, lofty hopes for Bane as being a mastermind with depth and complete agenda... not so much. Joker defeats him on every level. I adore Tom Hardy, and the mask robbed me of him. and I really annoyed my brother while watching it because eveny time Bane spoke I kept mentioning he sounded like Morla The Ancient One from The Neverending Story. It drove me crazier than usual.[/color]

[color=#33cc66]The film ended up feeling long, but was very nuanced to me. I actually did really enjoy it. I didn't see the "twist" coming so much, but I wasn't impressed by it. Except for CatWoman and Bruce Wayne and Blake at times everyone was very two-dementional. It probably could have been about 12 minutes shorter and I would have been more comfortable with it. [/color]

[color=#33cc66]I'm totally with Alex when it comes to Talia. She should be loftier. She should not be relegated to generic villain land where daddy issues becomes a need to finish his life's work. I'm not buying it, but I guess they needed something that would be easy to tie up.[/color]

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