Oh, the legality (or lack thereof)!

[Shinken]

If you've visited my MyOtaku recently, you'll have noticed my concern over a certain corner of the internet, run by a fundamentalist Evangelical group known as Objective (I think). These people, through many articles, have slandered and degraded many religions and denominations, and have also suggested less-than-legal tactics to force their version of the "Truth" to mostly minors. For example: [url]http://objective.jesussave.us/halloween.html[/url] In this article, 'Dr.' Troy Franklin gives a tactic to "spread the word" to "unsaved" children- Take off candy wrappers, tamper with them (write on them), put them back on, and hand them out to little kids. :nervous: Last time I checked, wasn't this illegal? And these guys think that their cause is 'righteous'.

They also go as far as to call other non-evangelical religions (including Christian denominations like Catholicism) "ignorant" and the like. This is hypocrisy to the max ², and I can't stand it.

Then there's the part where they completely trample upon everything this country stands for in their attempt to get their own way ( [url]http://objective.jesussave.us/godlyflag.html[/url]
)

And, last but not least, there's this guy: [url]http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0016/0016_01.asp[/url] Now THIS is ridiculous, offensive, and ignorant. This person's comic portrays Buddhists as oppressive, money-hoarding, all-around evil people that worship Buddha as God. This is BLATANTLY FALSE. Buddhists do not worship Buddha. AT ALL. They simply give thanks to him for showing them the path to Enlightenment. He also contradicts his own religion, because as far as I know, God is a forgiving deity, right? Then why would he send a Buddhist to hell simply for being a Buddhist? I thought he forgave those who didn't know about him...

So, basically, I just want to hear everybody's opinion on these people, and the legality of some of the stuff on Objective, especially (because I doubt some of it is specifically legal). Oh, and just so you know, I'm a Buddhist/Christian hybrid, which explains my defense of both religions. (Plus, it'll give you guys something to gossip about later. ;) )

PS: If you have anything to say to these people, I suggest you do so. Although, you might not get a response. My (BUDDHIST) friend and I have sent them e-mails over the past few days, all civil, and have gotten NO responses. Extremely disappointing, yet expected.

[Guest cloricus]

Just avoid the sites and people involved, and report irl stuff that you think is dodgy to police or the right authorities. (Eg, show parents and ask best cause of action.) I don't know if you realise it but things that rise to be any thing big on the internet that is not favourable to the geek community is crushed and pushed off it, I can't see this place sustaining several attacks so I'm not worried at all about its net presence. :devil:

[DuoMax]

This people are seriously disgusting. They talk about how Jesus is so great and loving, but than in their little comics, he damns people to Hell. Makes me sick. So much for "Love Thy Neighbor"

[Guest cloricus]

Meh, they are fundamentalists and only read the bits that fit with what they believe. They are the same as any other fundamentalists like Muslim, Jewish or Buddhist ones. Best thing to do is ignore them and they'll go away, if they don't call the cops because we have some thing called freedom of religion. :P

[Asura]

My opinion is that these sort of brainwashing websites should be banned or at least make it illegal so that police are in full control.

[wiccansamurai]

"But all those who trust Christ will live forever in the joys of Heaven." How the Hell am I going to trust a guy, who if crossed will throw me into a pit of fire? Sorry, I find this funny. Especially the flag thing. That flag design is VERY legal. *Note sarcasm* and they can't even spell pokemon? And about how they said if they changed the flag, it would be a hate crime to burn it? That's not true, it would still stand as expressing an opinion. Just like they're expressing theirs and I'm expressing mine. People like this disgust me. Not all Christians are this bad, just, like any religon, the fundamentalists can be completely ignorant. Well, that's my 2 cents.

[Semjaza]

People are allowed to say and write what they please in a situation like this. The existance of a site on this means nothing as you have to specifically go there yourself. They're not forcing the URL on you.

Sometimes I wonder why these places have all the time in the world to come up with these ideas, but can't even come up with good images. "I know! Let's shrink the vertical size of the US flag and put "GOD" in Arial above it!! We're design geniuses!"

Morons.

[Ryu_Sakura]

i think people like that are mean, people can belive who and what they want. if they want to let people like that drag them in, it's thier problem,


(i TRIPLE posted? i thought my com wasn't working so after 2 tries i turned it of? i didn't even think it got thru... i'm really sorry Sara.)

[COLOR=orangered][size=1]Triple-posting is bad bad bad. -Sara.[/size][/COLOR]

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]My opinion is that these sort of brainwashing websites should be banned or at least make it illegal so that police are in full control.[/quote]Who's police? If you mean American ones I'll tell you to **** off, it's my internet as much as any one else?s there for no one country can control it.

Atm WISI is deciding who owns the internet and the USA blocked the attempt for the UN to own it in favour of keeping the DNS's in America, not that this means much as DNS is only for http which isn't a very important part of the internet. (I am not having a go at America here, just stating a fact. I honestly don't know who should have control of it and I'd rather no one did. Just clearing this up.)

Anyway the internet is free to every thing, that?s the whole point of it; and so you have to take the good with the bad or not use it at all. Simple.

[The Vampire: Ed]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cloricus [/i]
[B]Who's police? If you mean American ones I'll tell you to **** off, it's my internet as much as any one else?s there for no one country can control it. Atm WISI is deciding who owns the internet and the USA blocked the attempt for the UN to own it in favour of keeping the DNS's in America, not that this means much as DNS is only for http which isn't a very important part of the internet.

Anyway the internet is free to every thing, that?s the whole point of it; and so you have to take the good with the bad or not use it at all. Simple. [/B][/QUOTE]

You post simply for the sake of making more posts for yourself, and this proves it. You didn't post to make a point, nor did you post to make intelligent conversation. You just posted random nonsense that had nothing to do with anything. Asura said "My opinion is that these sort of brainwashing websites should be banned or at least make it illegal so that police are in full control." Which means police as a whole, she didn't say anything about a certain regions police. She just said police. That's all. So there was no need for most of your post.

However, I agree with your second part. The Internet is everyone's, it does not belong to just one country, person, or company. It's everyone's. So people have to take the good with the bad, and you are right. I agree fully. They might be a'holes, but they have the right to say what they say as well as post whatever they like on their website. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but it's their right to freedom of speech as well as religion. There is nothing that can be done about it, unless well they actually do something that may be illegal like that whole tampering with candy wrappers thing.

[Guest cloricus]

[quote]You didn't post to make a point, nor did you post to make intelligent conversation.[/quote][quote]However, I agree with your second part.[/quote]Anyone see the problem here. And since you made conversation are you suggesting that you are unintelligent?

I'm not posting for the hell of it, this part of the debate interests me as does the whole "what?s allowed" and "who controls" parts.

[Baron Samedi]

How about this. This is great advice, steel yourselves.

Don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to, and it doesn't matter. I don't think anyone takes much notice of fruitcakes like that, they just brush them off as annoying. Free speech is a right, and the Net is unpatrolled. So leave it and move on.

As for the candy... how many kids would actually bother to read notes on candy wrappers? I wouldn't.

If they are actually breaking some rules, tell the cops. If not, ignore it and move on. I could call you a [beep beep beep] but that wouldn't matter. It is my opinion, and you can choose to ignore it. So ignore them.

[Nerdsy]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shinken [/i]
[B] that worship Buddha as God. This is BLATANTLY FALSE. Buddhists do not worship Buddha. AT ALL.[/B][/QUOTE]



[COLOR=deeppink]I'd just thought I'd point out that there is a rather large denomination of Buddhism that worships Buddha as a god.


Eh, I usually ignore all evangalists... I'd say the vast majority of them are crooks anyway. Bull-headed, too. Can't stand the hypocrisy of that guy behind the 700 Club.

Without someone to listen to, they have no voice. Score one me.[/COLOR]

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ryu_Sakura [/i]
[B]i think pepl like that are stupid, i mean peopl can belive who and what they want. besides imean who actually believe those dufises anyway? i personaly hate morman, the tell peopl how wonderful the religon they join, the mormans take all thier money, the people leave because lack of cash, ect.

[COLOR=orangered][size=1]Triple-posting is bad bad bad. -Sara.[/size][/COLOR] [/B][/QUOTE]

Very nice. You seem like a nice person. You hate the fact they "attack" your opinions yet you attack them directly. You generalize and stereotype. Not only that, you call them stupid and there are more than 5 spelling and grammar mistakes in your post.

Oh god.. DuoMax. I cannot belive this. Did you even [i]read[/i] the comic or did you scan the pretty pictures? It clearly says that [b]we[/b] chose whether or not to go to hell by beliving in God. Now I'm not saying all of you have to belive this. But don't screw up their message by contorting it with your own shortsightedness.

I'm going to (ironically) play devil's advocate here. Hey Shinken, did these people force you to go to their site? No. Did they make you belive in God? No. They aren't , as indoctrinating as the text on their site seems, throwing their opinions in your face at all. They gave their opinions on their own website. If you want to go to it, that's your problem. Semjaza made a good point.

Who say's it's illegal to tamper with candy wrappers? So what? It's the only thing you have against these guys except for disagreeing with their religious point of view.

Baron made that same point.

Some people belive that if you don't belive in Jesus you go to Hell. I do. You don't have to. The fact is, why are you oposing a totally different system of beliefs? This is just becoming a flame-morman/christian thread (not for the most part, i'll admit, but it's just about religion.)

Religious threads tend to have a short life-span on OB because of each side's zealots and opposition. If you want to have an intelligent thread about specifics, fine. If you are going to debate relgion, this isn't the website for you.

Cloricus and Vampire: enough flaming , you are going to get this thread closed.

Hey nerdsy, you just listened to them... score one them.

[amibasuki]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ryu_Sakura [/i]
[B]i think pepl like that are stupid, i mean peopl can belive who and what they want. besides imean who actually believe those dufises anyway? i personaly hate morman, the tell peopl how wonderful the religon they join, the mormans take all thier money, the people leave because lack of cash, ect....[/B][/QUOTE]
[FONT=arial]heh, well you just described almost every church known on this earth then.

for one thing, the Morm[i]o[/i]n church is a [i]non-profit organization[/i], and doesn't force [i]anybody[/i] to give them money. the only reason why there are tithes in the first place is to keep the church going (ex: pay for the temples and church buildings, books, etc.), and for welfare purposes, like sending supplies out to third-world countries, etc. You hear that? [i]welfare[/i]. also as in, if the father/mother loses their job and is having money problems, the church helps them out until they can get back on their feet. people trying to make a profit aren't going to care about people who don't have money to begin with. yeah, we're money-hoarders alright.

as for your hating Mormons because the ones you've come across say they like their church (:rolleyes: ), everybody's entitled to their own opinion; it'd make about as much sense as me hating you for saying that you like Sailor Moon (which I personally can't stand), but whatever. you'd better at least be able to back up your remarks if you're going to flame something as serious as somebody's religion, however. if you want to go talking about ignorant 'dufises,' make sure you don't go resembling your own remarks.[/FONT]

[James]

[color=#707875]I must admit...I see the concern here, but I don't know what anyone can really say about it.

There are all sorts of crazy groups on the Internet. And there are some far worse than this one, in the sense that some groups will try to teach you how to build a bomb and attack people.

But, again, this is what comes from having a truly "free domain" like the Internet. That freedom will provide some fantastic opportunities -- for both harmless and harmful people.

Still, it's true that you aren't being forced to visit sites like this. The more you give extremists a voice, the louder they'll yell and the more they'll be heard. I think it's probably best to oppose extremism and fundamentalism by just following your own beliefs and not allowing people like this to sway you, etc.

That's really all I can say. I mean, I think these people will only be as successful as their ideas are popular. It's unlikely that too many people will be interested in their message, I guess.[/color]

[Harry]

I absolutely love Jack Chick comics, they really brighten my day. If you can't tell that he's simply a raving lunatic that was put on this earth to give you some entertainment then you shouldn't have any fun in life.

Also you should've seen the one about Muslims, boy that was full of fun facts that you'll find nowhere else :p

I don't see what's so wrong with it anyway, I've seen just as bad from ummah.com

[satan665]

I second that!

Chick comics are hilarious! There are so many classic strips in there. I have a couple at home, one where it ends with Jesus throwing somebody into a pit of flames. Y'know Jesus really wasn't all about forgiveness, there was a bit of pro-wrestling in him as well. Check out the link for his comics on the first post if you haven't already. Crazy can equal funny.

[liamc2]

[size=1]
[quote][i]Originally posted by Ryu_Sakura[/i]
[b]i think pepl like that are stupid, i mean peopl can belive who and what they want. besides imean who actually believe those dufises anyway? i personaly hate morman, the tell peopl how wonderful the religon they join, the mormans take all thier money, the people leave because lack of cash, ect.[/b][/quote]

I'm sorry to hear that love. Obviously ignorance is rife in the world because I'm hearing those sorts of comments more and more often

Bad blood and hicktown gossip generally stick well in the minds of those that are arrogant or ignorant in topics they don't understand.

I mean, up until the 1970's the 'Morman Extermination Order' was still part of an American State's charter/base code of rules. That order gave any member of that state the official right to kill a 'Morman' [as it was so eloquently put] without any fear of repurcussions.

The same sort of ignorance happens all over the world, we have friends that fled here to avoid religious persecution in Iran.

Recently I studied Buddhism in my Ancient History class, and it is a beautiful religion filled with peace and harmony.

It was the Buddhists that convinced the Great Indian King Asoka to lay down his arms and better his people by avoiding war when possible.

The codes and laws that followed bettered India so much more than Asoka would have without the simple touch of Buddhism.

Did you also know that Buddhism, and many others, are extremely tolerant to all other religions?

'There are many paths to God.'

To put it slightly out of context.

If you haven't guessed yet, I am LDS, or Morman. A saying that crops up a lot in my church is

'There are varying degrees of truth in all religions.'

Another one, gleaned from many sources,

'Like it, or leave it.'

If you have nothing nice to say, or you cannot appreciate the simple intricacies of one's religion, do not attempt to dissect it, because it's going to bite you in the rear when someone educated begs to differ.

~_^[/size]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=violet]Okay, so people are stupid. I doubt that's a newsworthy story.
As for the GOD flag hey,. as long as they make a goddess flag for the rest of us so they can hang togther, what's the problem?
I di find it interesting that Santa Clause is another tool of the devil tho. I mean it's soo obvious, if you rearrange the letters in Santa you get SATAN! Wake up people, the devil is tricking you!
Oh, and I hope nobody takes me seriously in that last sentence because I sure didn't.
The point's been made, nobody made you visit the site. No as for those Mall converters-I'll be wearing a t-shirt with the words-Hell on Heels. Come and get it!
Okay, time for Leno![/color]

[Shinken]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChibiHorsewoman [/i]
[B][color=violet]Okay, so people are stupid. I doubt that's a newsworthy story.
As for the GOD flag hey,. as long as they make a goddess flag for the rest of us so they can hang togther, what's the problem?
I di find it interesting that Santa Clause is another tool of the devil tho. I mean it's soo obvious, if you rearrange the letters in Santa you get SATAN! Wake up people, the devil is tricking you!
Oh, and I hope nobody takes me seriously in that last sentence because I sure didn't.
The point's been made, nobody made you visit the site. No as for those Mall converters-I'll be wearing a t-shirt with the words-Hell on Heels. Come and get it!
Okay, time for Leno![/color] [/B][/QUOTE]

:therock: Zhuh? A 'goddess flag'? That, too, would leave out Buddhists, wouldn't it? That's one of the problems I have with these people- the fact that they ignore any non-evangelical denomination. Then there's the whole religious slurs thing combined with the sheer ignorance factor. And, to put icing on the crapcake, they give you their e-mail address stating that "Your input is valuable!"- and they NEVER reply. It's been about a week since I sent them e-mails, and they have thus far ignored me. *I wonder if they'll respond to a "sympathetic" e-mail. THAT'D be hypocritical...* Anyways, what bothered me more was the Chick comic about the "evil Buddhists". For one thing, this guy just blatantly made this up. He couldn't be more wrong if he tried. (Case in point: THERE IS NO "LORD BUDDHA"!!! Trust me on this one ;) )

Religious fanaticism + Shinken= :flaming:

[hawke3000]

While I do disagree with everything they said on those pages(God flag?) ,like almost everyone has said,it's their right to say what they want. There are plenty of stupid websites(I found out just yesterday there is a KKK website!And they have a giftshop!Merry Christmas mom!) but you don't have the right to shut them down. Even if it's stupid.

[Drix D'Zanth]

Is it me or has this thread, which seems to be going absolutely no where, turned a full circle. Once again Shinken re-iterates his sentiments and he get's more-or-less the same reply. *Sigh* I must close this thread so it doesnt waste people's time going in circles.