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[font=comic sans ms]2007DigitalBoy (sorry for calling you out.) said something about watching 10-15 animes (and being under educated)doesn't make you an anime fan in the "Anime Pros and Cons" thread. And that made me remember an argument I got in with this guy about the same thing, well, almost the same thing. I told the guy I didn't like Akira, and so that didn't make me an anime fan.

I always thought an anime fan was someone that enjoys the animes they watch. Apparently, my defintion is still flipped and flopped.

So, what is an anime fan?[/font]
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Oh I don't know, since when was watching more than one show a requirement for being a fan of something? I've probably only seen about twenty different anime shows since I only started watching anime last year, but I do consider myself a fan, even if it's just a casual one as you say.

I considered myself one from the time I got done watching Fruits Basket, the first show I ever watched. It was that enjoyable.

Now if you were to say hard core fan then yeah, I would think having seen more than just a few would be required. Since usually hard core means the person has seen quite a bit. Otherwise, in my opinion, it only takes one show to be a fan of the different art style that is known as Japanese animation. Even if it is Naruto or InuYasha.
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[COLOR=DarkOrange]hey now, don't misquote me. I never said they weren't anime fans, they're just disappointing anime fans. Anyone who is a fan of anime is an anime fan by definition, even if they have only seen Naruto and FMA. Now, I wish that anime fans watched more than that, but as far as terminology goes, I am at a loss. And no, watching more shows doesn't make you a bigger anime fan either. Just a more educated one.[/COLOR]
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[quote name='2007DigitalBoy][COLOR=DarkOrange'] I never said they weren't anime fans, they're just disappointing anime fans. [/COLOR][/quote]Why disappointing? That doesn't really make sense you know. What's disappointing about a fan who only likes a few shows? Nothing in my opinion.

Perhaps you could clarify [I]why[/I] you think they are disappointing, yes?
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[COLOR=DarkOrange]Disappointing, because they haven't seen more. It's best to explain it with a dialogue...

[B]DB[/B]: *sees girl in Naruto shirt* *approaches her*
[B]DB[/B]: Oi, you watch anime?
[B]Pretty Girl[/B]: Oh, yeah! Your an anime fan?
[B]DB[/B]: Yep! What kind of shows you like?
[B]Pretty Girl[/B]: Well, as you can see, I love naruto, and I'm a petty big fan of Fullmetal Alchemist...
[B]DB[/B]: Yeah, thos are pretty cool, though I mostly watch, like, stuff that's not on TV
[B]Pretty Girl[/B]: Yeah... *turns away to friends*
[B]DB[/B]: *disappointed*

[B]ROUND TWO[/B]:

[B]DB[/B]: *sees kid in Japanese class drawing [B]Final Fantasy [/B] character*
[B]DB[/B]: Oi, that's pretty good there.
[B]Random guy[/B]: thanks! You like final fantasy?
[B]DB[/B]: Funny thing, I own almost all of them, but I haven't beaten a single one >_<
*conversation continues, almost always covering [B]Tales of Symphonia [/B] and porn in the process; don't ask*
[B]DB[/B]: *at this point is well aware that person watches anime* so, what shows do you like?
[B]Random Guy[/B]: Well, I mostly like action shows, like Samurai Shamploo, Cowboy Beebop, you know, Naruto and stuff, mostly the stuff on Adult Swim
[B]DB[/B]: Really? Ever seen Neon Genesis Evangelion?
[B]Random Guy[/B]: I think I saw an episode when it was on AS it seemed weird
[B]DB[/B]: Ah, well, you should watch it
[B]Random Guy[/B]: yeah.. *never does*
[B]DB[/B]: *disappointed*

see what I mean?[/COLOR]
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To me someone who is an anime fan is someone that just enjoys that genre of shows. Whether it be dubbed or subbed, mainstream anime or up-and-coming doesn't bother me one bit. Whats great is for the few people that I know that DO enjoy watching anime, just being able to show them different series and not having them completely turned off by it is great. Usually I ask them after they have completed the series if they enjoyed it, and if they ask for more than to me thats being a fan.

As of right now, I'm at the point where its getting hard just to find new series to watch. I've been searching online for different listes that satisfy my tastes on anime I like to watch, but I'm running out of series and just depending on either ones that are still finishing up their episodes (Deathnote) or others that are waiting to put out their sequels (Higurashi no Naku Koro ni).

Nonetheless, being able to talk to just a few people about any type of anime is fine with me. Also, not all those who watch mainstream anime have the capability to either get it online by fansub or buy series from stores. Thats one reason why I don't judge people on what they watch, since that might be the only way they are capable of watching anime. If the ones who watched the animes on AS or Toonami enjoyed what they watched and like to have casual conversation about it, thats a fan to me.
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Someone who says he's an anime fan.

That's it.

I've come across people who are such sakuga (animation/drawing) fans that they know the animators & animation directors who can single-handedly raise an individual sequence or episode to a much higher level. People who drool over skillful storyboarding, not attractive characters or typical action.

And then there are those who like the real classics best--the World Masterpiece Theater anime, the series from the 70s and 80s that don't get screaming fangirls anymore but did pave the way for great storytelling. Maybe we could say that people who haven't seen Rose of Versailles or the original Gundam or Future Boy Conan or Urusei Yatsura (and those are just some of the obvious choices) aren't educated fans.

But that's just elitist.

~Dagger~
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[color=dimgray] Most teenage anime fans tend to be full of themselves and elitist, so if you haven't watched "the classics", like Akira or Evangelion, or if you only watch stuff on Adult Swim, you clearly don't really understand "true anime".

And anyways, who the **** has time to keep up with ten series?[/color]
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Anime elitists make me giggle. Some say a true fan needs to love the "classics", steer clear of mainstream stuff (unless you "found" it before anyone else), hate dubs and watch anime in Japanese - raw- because you should have learned the language to enjoy it how it was "meant to be". Whatever.

I see anime fans like, let's say football fans. I could say that you aren't a real football fan unless you love the Seahawks. We all know that kind of argument wouldn't fly so why do people make it when it comes to anime? "You aren't a real fan unless you love {insert anime series}." People like what they like. Anime is made for many different tastes. I'm not going to razz someone for not loving what I think is the best anime ever. Trying to one-up someone in fandom is not my bag, that's for sure.

To me a fan is someone who enjoys anime.
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[quote name='Dagger']Someone who says he's an anime fan.[/quote]

[color=deeppink]And if he's lying? : P

This whole "only watched things on Adult Swim" thing doesn't even make any sense.

Here, I'll list the animes I watched series I've watched or am watching.

Trigun, Full Metal Alchemist, Cowboy Bebop, Bleach, Naruto, Witch Hunter Robin, Neon Genesis Evangelion, OgreSlayer, Samurai Deeper Kyo, The Hakkenden, the Dragonballs,, Sailor Moon. These are all I remember offhand.

See how all but three of those have been showed on Cartoon Network? Samurai Deeper Kyo has been shown on Starz Action, so that could easily count.

Heres the thing, though; with the exception of Bleach, [i]I didn't watch any of these on Cartoon Network.[/i] Most of those I saw well before it was aired on CN.

And if we're going to go with the the more general "animes that's been shown on TV," like DigitalBoy said, yes, all but two of those have been shown on TV, and I'm sure there's more I haven't listed. Again, most of those I saw before they hit TV. Or at least didn't watch them while they were on TV.

This is [i]coincidence.[/i] The networks just so happened to have similar tastes to mine. I may come off as someone who only watches pre-packaged Anime, I don't. And I'm certainly not the only one like this.[/color]
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2007DigitalBoy, it sounds to me that your idea of a 'disappointing' anime fan is someone who doesn't have the same taste in shows that you do. That mock conversation you provided just made you sound like a stuck up elitist since the other person wasn't watching stuff that isn't on TV or so called great shows like Neon Genesis Evangelion. [which by the way I did not like] And frankly that's just silly. [quote name='Panda']Anime elitists make me giggle. [/quote]You and me both. I've only been into watching anime within the last year and honestly, it cracks me up to hear the '[I]you aren't a fan if you haven't watched this show[/I]' spiel.

And here I thought being an anime fan meant you enjoyed some of the Japanese animation shows, not that you had to watch certain ones. lol
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[QUOTE=Rachmaninoff]2007DigitalBoy, it sounds to me that your idea of a 'disappointing' anime fan is someone who doesn't have the same taste in shows that you do. That mock conversation you provided just made you sound like a stuck up elitist since the other person wasn't watching stuff that isn't on TV or so called great shows like Neon Genesis Evangelion. [which by the way I did not like] And frankly that's just silly. You and me both. I've only been into watching anime within the last year and honestly, it cracks me up to hear the '[I]you aren't a fan if you haven't watched this show[/I]' spiel.

And here I thought being an anime fan meant you enjoyed some of the Japanese animation shows, not that you had to watch certain ones. lol[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]Don't get me wrong, I was just using Eva as an example. I wouldn't consider myself an elitist (maybe I'm worng?) But I watch a LOT of shoes. I'm not the type to not give someone a chance -- I loan out my DVDs and give people reccommendations, send them to websites, and try to get them to watch more. It's not that I want them particularly to watch a certain show I like, I just want them to understand that there are shows out there beside Naruto and Fullmetal Alchemist.

It really becomes disappointing, though, when they don't go look for more.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=2007DigitalBoy][COLOR=DarkOrange]
It really becomes disappointing, though, when they don't go look for more.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=dimgray] To you, casual fans may be a disappointment. But when you say that to other people, it comes off as elitist even if you aren't. Just a word of advice. [/color]

[quote name='Nerdsy][color=deeppink'] I may come off as someone who only watches pre-packaged Anime, I don't. And I'm certainly not the only one like this.[/color][/quote]

[color=dimgray] You say pre-packaged anime like it's a bad thing. P:[/color]
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[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] To you, casual fans may be a disappointment. But when you say that to other people, it comes off as elitist even if you aren't. Just a word of advice. [/color][/quote]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]Sorry! It's hard to not sound elitist, and it's mostly because I take anime very seriously. The time I'm not watching anime, I'm talking about it on message boards and getting way into it. I've been researching anime for years -- it's a major part of my life. When I hear about someone who likes anime, I get my hopes up. It's like 'hey! You like anime? I like anime!' and it's like a major 'yes!' moment, until I end up talking about freaking [B]Naruto[/B]!

I mean,I've loved anime for a long time, and I used to be ridiculed for it. It used to be that being an anime fan was a bad thing, something that worked against me. Now most of the people I hang out around are calling themselves anime fans as well; but instead of a bunch of people who knew the hardship of years of ridicule who've been researching anime for all this time, becoming entrenched in it, obsessing over it, and becoming well versed in it; all that's there is a bunch of people who saw Naruto on [B]Cartoon Network [/B] one day and started buying T-shirts!

The elitism must be in my very blood, because I have tried as hard as I can to be accepting of fledling otaku and try to teach them what I know, and those who have joined me in my persuit I hold close as good friends; the people who have tought me I hold in high regards as well. those who refuse to learn -- those are the people who disappoint me.

And it's not just with anime -- I want people to learn about all kinds of things. I've burned so many CDs to give to people, and I've made some people fans of bands they didn't know about (just 2 days ago I converted someone to [B]Coheed and Cambria[/B], lol). Call me an elitist is you want; call me the fraking jehova's witness of anime if oyu want to; all I want is for peole to learn.[/COLOR]
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Think of two people trying to cook. The first person maybe throws some storebought pasta into a pot of boiling water, then preps some quick pasta sauce with a little garlic, basil, some vegetable oil, and tomato sauce and serves this over the noodles (which are, let's say, a little too soggy). Now think of a professional chef who studied in France, and who over the course of several hours creates a perfect beef bourguignon with several side dishes plus homemade napoleon for dessert.

Now suppose someone were to ask the question, "Which of these people is cooking?" The reasonable answer would be, "Both are. One may have a greater range of skills and knowledge, more time and dedication, and a far larger pool of experience to draw from, but fundamentally they're both doing the same thing. They're the same even though they're not [i]equals[/i], in the same way that someone who hammers out 'chopsticks' isn't the equal of a pianist who can play Bartok's second concerto." Watching anime, and being an anime fan, is also like this. It has nothing to do with taste and preference, or with how much stuff one has watched - it basically has to do with [i]knowing one's way around[/i]. (think of someone visiting a city who knows many of the main roads versus a veteran inhabitant who knows each and every alley)
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[QUOTE=2007DigitalBoy][COLOR=DarkOrange]

The elitism must be in my very blood, because I have tried as hard as I can to be accepting of fledling otaku and try to teach them what I know, and those who have joined me in my persuit I hold close as good friends; the people who have tought me I hold in high regards as well. those who refuse to learn -- those are the people who disappoint me.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=dimgray] Well, you can just let it go. Like you said, being an anime fan wasn't exactly a positive thing in the eyes of a lot of people in the past, but now you do have friends that wanted to watch some more anime that wasn't offered through US television. Most likely the people who are content to stick with one or two series are what they are: content. [/color]
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[quote name='Lunox][color=dimgray'] Well, you can just let it go. Like you said, being an anime fan wasn't exactly a positive thing in the eyes of a lot of people in the past, but now you do have friends that wanted to watch some more anime that wasn't offered through US television. Most likely the people who are content to stick with one or two series are what they are: content. [/color][/quote]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]What are you saying here? That attempting to enrich others lives with the persuit of higher knowlege is something that should not be done? i mean, sure I get disappointed sometimes, but that's all on me. It's not like im imposing my disappointment on them. And those who do persue more anime often end up gaining from it. I have had many friends who became anime fans because of me, as well as those who now listen to my music and play my games. If no one did, i'd be very lonely, so it's worth the occasional disappointment to try and teach others about anime. The pros outweigh the cons.[/COLOR]
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[color=dimgray] I'm not telling you to stop, I'm just saying don't be too upset if someone doesn't want to further their interest in anime. I said "let it go" in my previous post just as a saying, I didn't mean to imply that you imposed your disapproval or anything.

Yeah, I can see why you become disappointed, but don't fret or anything. You don't own mediums just because you were the first at your school to involve yourself with it, nor does anyone else. [/color]
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[QUOTE=Lunox][color=dimgray] I'm not telling you to stop, I'm just saying don't be too upset if someone doesn't want to further their interest in anime. I said "let it go" in my previous post just as a saying, I didn't mean to imply that you imposed your disapproval or anything.

Yeah, I can see why you become disappointed, but don't fret or anything. You don't own mediums just because you were the first at your school to involve yourself with it, nor does anyone else. [/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]no, I'm not fretting. Disappointment, to me, just means I'm sort of shaking my head and turning around. I don't know if it's the best word to use, I should look it up and make sure, but what I meant to inply with 'disappointing' is simply like...

DB: meh, oh well, you're loss

sort of thing. It's like seeing a smart person fail a class -- you know they can do better, but they fail anyway cuz they don't care. It's disappointing, but it's not your problem. In any case, I think we've driven offtopic.[/COLOR]
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[size=1]I think the only real separation in the "anime fan category" is a plain fan, and an over-obsessed otaku.

Some people only watch the anime on Adult Swim/Cartoon Network, because that's all they have access to. Not everyone has a high enough paying job to buy new DVDs every week. I sure as hell don't. In fact, I don't even have a job! So, it's my mom supporting my anime feed, which I cannot rely on her for.
The only time I can buy anything new is after I save up money for a year, and then go to AnimeIowa and blow that money.

I define a fan as anyone who likes it. Even if they've only seen one show, if they like it enough to watch it every once in awhile, they are pushed up to fan status. And if they like that show, they'll tend to explore into that genre, and look for new things they like.

An over-obsessed otaku on the other hand... >>
They get into the life-style. Eat the foods they see in anime they watch(like ramen, rice balls, sushi, etc.), cover every inch of their bedroom walls with posters and wall-scrolls, watch their anime in Japanese...
Just, argh. Haha. I know a few people like this, and sorry, but it gets annoying when that's ALL they talk about. Like a friend of mine is HARDCORE into Naruto, and I tend to find myself avoiding him, because whenever he approaches me, it's the same question, "What Naruto character am I most like?" One time I freaked out and said, "I DON'T KNOW! GO TAKE A GODDAMN QUIZ!"
Haha!

Ooops.
[/rant][/size]
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[quote name='2007DigitalBoy][COLOR=DarkOrange'] It's like seeing a smart person fail a class -- you know they can do better, but they fail anyway cuz they don't care. It's disappointing, but it's not your problem. In any case, I think we've driven offtopic.[/COLOR][/quote]Good grief, watching anime shouldn't be like taking a class. It's suppose to be fun! Not a quest to learn more about the culture or to get into deeper shows. Or to hunt down more of them. If anything that just turns people off, making them feel like they can't be a casual fan without turning it into something more.

It sounds more like your disappointed in not finding friends who share the same level of enjoyment in it that you do instead of a real statement that one has to do more to be considered a true fan. And still that's no reason to get upset or disappointed in them since I'm sure they have something they like that you do not and it never crosses their mind to be 'disappointed' with you for it.

That would be as silly as me saying I was disappointed in you that you did not share the same love for classical music that I do. Which by the way I do not feel disappointed that others are not as into classical music as I am. Because in the end that's what I love and I hardly expect others to do more or that they can do better when it comes to appreciating classical music.

I think the same applies to any form of entertainment that someone likes. They don't have to get deep into it to be a fan and I certainly do not think they have failed or disappointed others by being a casual fan.
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[QUOTE=Fyxe][size=1]An over-obsessed otaku on the other hand... >>
They get into the life-style. Eat the foods they see in anime they watch(like ramen, rice balls, sushi, etc.), cover every inch of their bedroom walls with posters and wall-scrolls, watch their anime in Japanese...
Just, argh. Haha. I know a few people like this, and sorry, but it gets annoying when that's ALL they talk about. Like a friend of mine is HARDCORE into Naruto, and I tend to find myself avoiding him, because whenever he approaches me, it's the same question, "What Naruto character am I most like?" One time I freaked out and said, "I DON'T KNOW! GO TAKE A GODDAMN QUIZ!"[/size][/QUOTE]I think you're eliding enthusiasm with social insensitivity, boorishness, and the inability to take a hint. Surely there are plenty of folks with DVD collections the size of a refrigerator who are perfectly capable of living outside lives. So if I understand you correctly, the real distinction you make is between anime fans who can function socially in anime-unfriendly situations and anime fans who can't (or: "ones I have no trouble hanging out with" and "ones I find irritating"). Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with sushi now and then, the question is whether you can leave it alone or not.

[quote name='Rachmaninoff']Good grief, watching anime shouldn't be like taking a class. It's suppose to be fun! Not a quest to learn more about the culture or to get into deeper shows.[/quote]As someone who finds taking classes fun, I object. ;)

Seriously though, I don't think I would be as interested in anime were I not able to give it consideration on a deeper level once in a while. Once the flash from the first few viewings is gone, is there anything left? Is a series actually showing something, or is it there to thrill me for a few hours and then disappear? Mind you, I'm not saying everyone else should be fans for this reason and I certainly don't have any problem with watching something for sheer pleasure (I'm a Negima fan, so that's pretty much a non-starter), but for me mere diversion gets old after awhile. Think of my cooking comparison from the previous post: some people are perfectly happy with three-step recipes that take ten minutes to prepare, but the wackos are going to want to fix hugely complex feasts that take days. Both presumably satisfy the goals they have set for themselves. Criticism seems beside the point.
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[COLOR=DarkOrange]Both of ye long-named dudes, I am in agreement with both of you. [B]Rach [/B] (do you mind if I call you that?), I can see what you mean by that, and I can see how it would be imposing. I think what this comes down to, though, is the difference betwen you and me. Your perfectly fine being a lone fan of something -- I'm not. As a person whos hobbies make up most of my life, it is important to me what others think, and I am filed with joy when they think what I think.

[B]Fasterisk[/B], I just overall agree with your post.[/COLOR]
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Some people were talking about buying t-shirts after just barely being
exposed to the show. Why is this so wrong?

p.s. Some people dont want to learn. Lots of people just don't want
anime related knowledge forced on to them. Just like i don't like computer
related knowledge forced on me. It's like when my brother installs something
on my computer and starts talking about the functions of the C drive.
They don't care, just like i don't care. :cool:
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