Downloading Music off the internet

[tabmow]

I'm sure none of the upstanding Otakuboard members do this, but as I was watching Channel One News at school the other day there was a report about the recording industry again attempting to stop the downloading and free exchange of music through the internet.
What do you feel about this ?

Should the dirty thieving masses have to pay for the fruits of the hardworking artist who produce their offerings of lyrical bliss ?

or

Should the dirty money hungry music industry get of the backs of the hard working people who want to just share music with their extended internet family ?

or

Do you have another take on this topic ?

[Semjaza]

The music industry is dying in my opinion. People who feel some need to download everything instead of buying it are the reason that the industry is clogged with bands that are clones of eachother. The originals sold, so why not chug out the same crap with a different face?

Yes, there will be an underground scene all the time. Yes there were always be excellent bands that are on the fringe of something or other... but it's not remotely how it used to be anymore. Like it or not, the music industry is a business... if they don't get their money or think they are losing it because of someone else, they'll do what they can to get it back, same as any other company.

I really think that music sharing programs are the main problem for music today. People have little reason to buy a CD. Less CDs being bought equals less money for tours and everything else. Less chances bigger labels will take on smaller bands that really deserve to go somewhere and not have a sidejob in McDonalds all their lives.

Some people might not think this is a problem... but there are labels struggling due to this crap. CD sales are declining at a rather fast pace. Many bands I actually love cannot manage to get together a tour because their labels can't afford to get one going anymore due to overall less sales on their label (Curve is an example). Even NIN, which is a rather big group, didn't get funding from Interscope for their tour because of "lagging sales" for The Fragile. The Fragile sold over 1,000,000 copies and costs on average twice what a normal CD does (because it's a 2 disc set), and Interscope still wouldn't help. Trent (the vocalist) wound up funding most of that tour himself. This is pathetic, and shouldn't even be an issue.

I always find it humorous that a lot of people don't think stuff like Kazaa is a problem. "I only download one or two songs to see if I like them" is what I hear most often. Or "I only like one song, why should I buy the CD?" You should buy the CD because it supports the artist. Why a person doesn't want to help a band that has worked so hard to get where it is and exists (hopefully) for the love of the music, I have no idea. At least buy the damn single, because chances are you are downloading the single they play on the radio anyway.

A "few" songs adds up. Most people have at least 40 songs on their computer. Personally, I have about 4,000. 98% of these are mp3s I made myself from CDs I own, because I like to have a constant stream of music in my room. I know this isn't the case for most people.

I really do think people use the above mentioned as an excuse too. They know, in a sense, that they are screwing the artists over... and in order to justify it they complain about how greedy the artist is or the indusry is or the label is. Or they say they "plan" on buying the CD, when they know right out that they won't. It's greedy for the artist to want to get their earned money... but it's not greedy to take stuff for free? To over indulge yourself in this because it's free?

It's like everyone who downloads music thinks they are Robin Hood. It doesn't help anything.

I cannot tell you how many people tell me so and so is their favorite band without owning one of their CDs. How many people own a copy of another CD, or downloaded most (or all) of it off the internet.

The fact is that this is free. People like free things. They ask, why should we pay when we get it for free? And to me this is a HUGE problem. This isn't supposed to be free in the first place.

If you want to add to the decline of innovative music then be my guest. I'm willing to bet that half that bands people like here (and most of mine), wouldn't even exist today if the music industry was as bad back then as it is today. If things continue like this, I think it will just get worse. The companies won't take risks.

I admit I download music. If anything, it's generally a bootleg (something that technically shouldn't exist as it is, so the band isn't losing money on that), something I just can't get in the US... or something leaked that I want to buy anyway (the latest Manson CD for example). I don't just download random songs I like from the radio.

And the sad thing is that music on a whole just seems to sell more based on image than the actual music. The companies know this too. Korn, who got huge as we all know (although died down), were signed not because of their music... but because the company thought it would appeal to kids who wore baggy "hip hop" style clothes, but still liked metal. That's all it seems to be about anymore.

I guess I just don't get how anyone can justify what is basically stealing from these groups. Groups they claim to care about, and are apparently meaningful in their lives. Of course, this isn't true of everyone... this is just a general opinon I have.

Anyway, I'm repeating myself and going off on tangents and everything else. Hopefully some of this was coherant and someone will actually feel a need to read all of it.

[GinnyLyn]

I read all of it. And agree with it.

So want my opinion? Go back and read Sem's, then.

[TheShinje]

[size=1][color=darkblue] I agree with Sem on every point. File sharing is file [i]stealing[/i]. That's as true as it gets.

To put another way, If someone robbed a convenience store, and the next day, set up a stall to offload his haul for free, would you take it knowing full well he has just stolemn it from the convienience store?

I used to download mp3's I'll admit, because i didn't have any money. Now, the mp3's are gone, and I'm a full supporter of The music industry, after all, they're only protecting what belongs to them. Would you willingly allow your playstation? or anything dear to you be flogged by someone because he wan'ts to [i]share it[/i] with the world? i think not. Heh. My two cents. [/size][/color]
[img]http://lame.sourceforge.net/download/riaa.gif[/img]

[Semjaza]

Heh that image seems to be a jab at the RIAA more than anything. I think the confusing aspect is that when people say "music industry" some are referring to only the RIAA, some are refering to the whole music scene overall and some are combining both as one. I tend to combine them when I refer to the industry, but I lean more towards the scene side than the RIA side.

I don't like the RIAA. They are overly greedy and everything else honestly, I can't lie about that. However, you aren't sticking it to them when you don't buy stuff... you're screwing the artists over in the end.

I've seen people get very upset when they draw a simple picture and it winds up somewhere else on the internet, where someone else is claiming it is theirs. The funny thing is that most of the time these images are redrawings of someone else's creations in the first place (an anime, videogame, etc).

Now imagine something you spent lots of time and energy on, that's completely yours. Now everyone is taking it from you and not giving anything back.

If people think that's okay, things are seriously messed up.

[BlackDragon465]

I downloaded music a few times in my life. I really don't think is fare for the artist but the guy isn't making money of for letting people download it from him so is not awful that people download music. But the artist does loose money so is unfair to the artists.

[Semjaza]

They just had this thing on the news about Madonna and all that. It was pretty stupid, considering they seemed to think Napster invented file sharing programs among other things, but anyway...

Apparently the RIAA emailed 200,000 people that use two popular file sharing programs... saying that this is not unpunishable and they are not anonymous. That would scare the crap out of me honestly heh.

I guess you could easily just not enter your real email on those programs (I NEVER do)... but they could probably trace your IP and force your ISP to give them your information if they really wanted to.

[Transtic Nerve]

I download mp3s on a daily basis, well not anymore, I used to. When I hear a song I liek I download it. Granted 90% of that isn't American music, so it really doesn't matter. The RIAA has enough money as it is and as with everything else coporate in America, they just want more without caring abotu anything else. I'd rather live in a communist country than in a country that allows rich people to be richer and poor people to become pooer.

File sharing is promoting communism? If you're not then you're not promoting democracy. Majority wins, and the majority likes to share mp3s on the net.

Artist gain what? 15 cents per CD sold? Something along those lines, the rest goes to the greedy bastards in the RIAA. AT LEAST 50% of all sales sould go to the artist, if it weren't for them, the crappy RIAA wouldn't be getting anything anyway, then you have the American public eating up this crap over and over again.

If you want to support your artist, don't buy their CDs. Send them money, go to their concerts, buy stuff THEY make, not stuff endorced by the RIAA. If I wanted to support Linkin Park, I would send them the $15 for their CD, I would go to their concerts. I'm not buying their CD. I haven't yet, and I never will. I haven't bought an American made CD in a very long time and I don't plan to any time soon.

The internet cannot be controlled. People don't seem to realize this. If you want to stop file sharing, stop the software making mp3s, making videos. Don't stop the people. lol Thats the most idiotic thing ever. But they aren't smart enough to do that. It's impossible to stop the trade of mp3s. It won't happen, ever. the RIAA doesn't represent the world, it cannot control the internet, it doesn't have the right to. By disabling Napster or Kazaa or WInMX, you are disabling access to that program by not only Americans but the rest of the world and you simply cannot do that. Just because the RIAA are greedy bastards doesn't give them the right to take away the internet to the world. AudioGalaxy and Napster are fine cases of this. You know peopel from Japan, Germany, England, Poland, China, and almost every other country in the world used those programs. Now that some crappy American company decides it cannot work, those countries can no longer use this program.

Why don't we start caring about important things, like why 11,000+ people are killed each year by guns, or why the US ranks so low in Education, or why people can't see who they are voting for on ballots that screw people out of the presidency, or why there are single mothers with 8 kids out there who continue to do nothing but take money from tax payers like me becaus ethey're to lazy to get jobs, or why we continue to give rich people tax breaks, or why our economy is a complete and utter mess. I think those things are just a tad bit more important than the greedy RIAA and their ridiculous quest to rule the world.

[size=1][color=white]The RIAA can still *bleep* me for all I care[/size][/color]

[Manic Webb]

How's this for confusing?

Lately, I've been downloading quite a few old songs. Stuff made in the early 90s, 80s, and 70s. Honestly, I don't know what to think about downloading older songs. On one hand, I could probably waltz into a record store and get a Greatest Hits album or something of that nature, but does that money really go anywhere? If the record store runs out of Jackson 5 CDs, will they order more or just leave them soldout? Am I supporting those other 2 guys from Jodeci (the ones who aren't K-C or Jo-Jo) when I choose not to download "I Cry"?

I've been thinking of giving up downloading newer songs. That's kind of hard, what with my mother constantly telling me to download a bunch of 50 Cent songs (yes, my mother listens to rap).

When I did download new mp3s almost everyday, my one policy was that if I wanted to download more than 2 songs from a single album, I'd just go out and buy the album.

One reason I've been so reluctant to buy somebody's album is a bad experience I had with a Ricky Martin CD. Yeah, "Livin' La Vida Loca" was catchy and "Cup Of Life" was my favorite song to sing in Spanish, but the rest of the album bites big wind.

I'm going to make an effort to stop downloading new songs, but I'm not making any promises to anybody about that Ike & Tina Turner song I've been trying to download for the past month.

[Mitch]

[color=black][size=1][font=rockwell] Sej took the words from my mouth.

The thing that annoys me is the stupid 'Explicit' stickers. They cause it so I can't get a lot of good bands. Like NIN or Manson or anything. But that'll change when I turn 17 this October.[/color][/size][/font]

[Guest Voodookanaka]

I have 10GB worth of music, the quite simple thing is that this a case of, why pay for something when its there for free? SO what if its a crime? I doubt id be alone in thinking if i could steal a million squid and know i can get away with it, i would.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Voodookanaka [/i]
[B]I have 10GB worth of music, the quite simple thing is that this a case of, why pay for something when its there for free? SO what if its a crime? I doubt id be alone in thinking if i could steal a million squid and know i can get away with it, i would. [/B][/QUOTE]

Because thats not morally right and not the American way... HAHAHAHA lol... yeah anyway. Exactly right Voodoo-san. It's free, and it's widely available. If artists complained so much about, maybe they should just get another job (But wait, it's not the artist complaining so much is it? It's the millionairs sitting on their a$s all day that are complaining). The Music industry is a corrupted business, like all other big business in America.

It's not the American way to steal people's music, but by dammit, it's the American way to rip off the consumer so you can feed your greedy needs. God bless America!

[Braidless Baka]

Personally, I download music, but a lot of it is stuff I would [i]never[/i] be able to get hold of easily. J-pop for example... There is no WAY I'd be able to get half the stuff I have (I shall quote no figures) unless I shipped out to Japan for a month and paid a LOT of money for excess baggage on the way back. And that is not happening for a loooooong time. And if it ever did, of course I would buy the stuff - I'm a fan - I'm willing to support the artists.

And, to be quite honest, I only download stuff I wouldn't buy anyway. Let's say I download a whole movie soundtrack - which would cost me about £15 - there's no way I'm going all the way to the local shopping centre to buy it - even if I didn't download it I'd not buy it. So if I don't download it I would never hear it. I'm sure if I were an artist I'd prefer people hearing my music for free than never hearing it at all. After all, that's what I made it for, right? To be listened to, not (entirely) to generate profit. (Though, money is always nice ;))

They're not losing any money from me downloading my music if you look at it that way.

[Manic Webb]

TN actually makes a good point about where the money goes. Artists make very little money off of those CDs. Let's do the math...

You pay $15 for a CD
$10 goes to the store you bought it from.
$Out of the $5 remaining, about $0.50 goes to the artist (if they're lucky)
Artist sells 1,000,000 records, makes roughly $500,000
Tax time comes around, artist has about $250,000 left.
The artist has to pay for the recording studios used and all other expenses involved with promoting their album. This includes the music videos and the rare instance of the CD actually getting a TV commercial. And heaven forbid the artist doesn't make their own music or write their own songs.
Then the artist has to eat and sleep, so there's more money to spend.
If we're dealing with a band or group, the remaining money has to be divided between them.

Did you know that female singing group TLC sold over 10,000,000 copies of their "Crazy Sexy Cool" album and claimed bankrupcy?

This situation is even worse for rappers, because of their incredible stupid habit of spending their money on jewelry and cars.

If you buy the album instead of just downloading the song, you're giving the artist/band enough money to eat a processed snack food. The executives behind the company and any people the artist hires will be making more money.

Why do you think so many people turn to acting, clothing, and television commercials?

About me saying I was going to cut-down on mp3s... I didn't exactly say I was going to start buying more CDs, did I?

[Semjaza]

When I say "you" in this, I'm just referring to people in general... just so people know heh.

I understand artists don't make much off the CD, which is why so many complain about CD prices in the first place. I believe it averages something around $1 a piece... but they also get money from merchandise, tours, tv spots and everything else.

Okay, so by not buying this CD you don't help the RIAA. Congratulations. You aren't helping anyone else either. $1 times thousands of albums adds up (it's hardly CD consumers fault that some band can't handle their famous-ness and money - that can happen with anyone. TLC, for example, had millions regardless, that's their problem). If a thousand people decide to just download parts of the CD instead of buying it (and this is probably a low number, judging from the millions who use Kazaa on a daily basis alone), that's a lot of money. Okay, so the RIAA doesn't get their cut. Neither does the store. Maybe Walmart doesn't care that they sold 1,000 less of something when they make millions a day... but the small record stores sure as hell care. Like I said, in the end you are helping screw over the artists anyway. They get stuck in these contracts, which I admit suck... but not buying their stuff doesn't exactly help matters...

Especially when concerned with people who claim some band as their "favorite" and only have mp3s. That really pisses me off. If you don't show the band you care by sales, then they will assume no one gives a ****. Their label will screw them over even more; it's happened dozens of times. It doesn't help anything.

I'm sorry, but you are not on some crusade against evil. You are not Robin Hood. There is nothing noble, righteous or honest about screwing over these companies. Nor do I think the fact that they price gouge is good either, but if you hunt around you can get many CD for only $10 now. But, if you really believe that maybe you should look around. Every goddamn thing you buy is helping some giant, evil conglomerate. Welcome to business in the entire world (Japan included, because apparently people are oblivious to the many monopolistic practices that have gone on in their own country and as the result of them as well).

[Red]

[b][size=1]I download music off the internet all the time. I've been doing so since I first got a computer and Napster. Why? Because music that I like isn't necessarily hard to find over here, but prices are insane.

I simply can't afford to go out and buy all the CD's of all the music I want. I do buy CDs when I can, but most of the time I simply don't have the spare cash. Recently, I bought just a few of the CDs that I wanted, and it amounted to almost 60 pounds worth of music for 4 CDs. When I'm rich, maybe I'll be able to afford all the music I want.

However, I actually prefer CDs to mp3s, for various reasons (such as being able to play them whenever you want on a CD player, instead of constantly burning tracks), but I just can't afford all the music that I want.[/b][/size]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve[/i]
If artists complained so much about, maybe they should just get another job [/quote]

[b][size=1]Yup.. then none of us can have any music to listen to because all the music artists have other jobs.[/b][/size]

[vegeta rocker]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Transtic Nerve [/i]
[B] God bless America! [/B][/QUOTE]
And the home of the brave....................

Sorry, had to do it. I don't see the big deal, besides i only get anime music anyway. But if I really enjoy an artist i will buy it. Like the X soundtrack. I bought it halfway for the pictures.

Downloading music is not such a big deal to me. If i have money i will buy it.

[TheShinje]

[size=1][color=darkblue] Sem, I had intended for the communism poster to be a stab at the RIAA, using [i]their[/i] poster against them. It is the most funny, yet ridiculous thing I've seen for a while.

I suppor the artists, not the greedy RIAA, who should give artists more money, considering all those top of the chain bigwigs would be out on their *** if the Musicians got other jobs.

S@bre- Taking a stab at the RIAA all the while supporting the artists who truly deserve the money. [/size][/color]

[Wintermute]

I do download some things, but alway sthings I can justify to myself. J-pop, for instance. Unreleased tracks. Live unreleased tracks.

Primus are a great band for the conscientious, as they have publically stated that they are actually glad that so many people bootleg their shows, as they themselves usually don't record gigs. If someone else has, well then people can enjoy it. (In fact, the website actually hosts unofficial bootlegs)


For the most part though, I buy cds.
I think people are going the wrong way with CD security. They look for technological ways. I read with interest about how the Ozzy Live at the Budokan album utilised cutting edge technology, by making the cd unplayable by computers. I checked WinMX out of curiosity, and days after its release, all the tracks were there. Someone had just played it on a cd player, and used a digital line to record it on the computer. (That or someone running a Linux system did it - this cutting edge software was Windows targetted)

The best way I've seen is the path taken by Tool on the Lateralus album. I don't think it was their intent, but it worked. The packaging and artwork on that album is absolutely exquisite. I've never seen the like.... mmmm.... multi-layered intricate acetate prints.......

Everyone wants the artwork almost as much as the cd, so virtually no-one copies it!

[Pressure]

I have 600 Mp3s on my computer, that is a sufficient number for me. I personally download more videos and stuff on Kazaa than anything else. :)

[COLOR=darkblue]Er... why am I on Alice's name? -Scurries off feeling dumb-[/COLOR]

[GinnyLyn]

*spies sig* Nifties, I am intelligent.

Anyways, I spoke with one of my friends who is a struggling artist. [i]He[/i] actually doesn't mind if someone downloaded his stuff [i]at this point in his career.[/i] It's the word of mouth deal--a nobody has a really great service, and the recipients of the service go around and tell everyone else about it, generating publicity and hopefully business.

However, if that keeps up all through his career, he will be forever screwed.

I've downloaded stuff, yes. I do have a few burned CDs. So yeah, I'm being a past-hypocrite when I say don't do it. (I've removed Kazaa from my computer to keep myself from doing it anymore.) The only time I would ever attempt to justify downloading from Kazaa is when the file in question just cannot be found by any other means (no, that does not mean, "well, dang, I don't have enough money." (And don't get me started on the monetary aspect of our lives, those of us with jobs or otherwise.)) My example is not exactly music related, but the "Gargoyles" series Disney made. Good luck finding any of the episodes anymore--it's been nearly ten years since it showed.

Deity, people, think back a bit--we could trace this to recording music off the radio or taping our favorite shows. Thievery. It really is, according to official sites I've found. If the tapes/CDs are not destroyed in 24-48 hours, then you are in trouble.

And while I still say stop it!, the sad truth of it is, there's just no way that every Kazaa user can be hunted down and be made to pay (I can see more evil conglomerates using [i]that[/i] to their malicious ends.)) Even if Kazaa was shut down, like Napster was, another file sharing program will pop up.

It's the whole "thing meant for good twisted into corrupted thing" syndrome. I'm sure there was a pure intention for file sharing, but free black market was not among one of the choices.

*ends rant*

[amibasuki]

[FONT=ARIAL]I'll admit I've got around 50 MP3's on my desktop, and have downloaded who knows how many volumes of manga on top of that. but the music is all stuff from anime soundtracks and a few J-artists I haven't and probably never will be able to find in any store I've been in, and none of the manga has been released in the U.S. yet. I only download stuff I can't get my hands on otherwise. if they want to make money off of it so badly, they need to [i][b]SELL IT[/i][/b]. everything else I either just listen to on the radio or buy myself, providing I have the money, or unless Anna's already gotten it ^_^.[/FONT]

[Harry]

I won't feel sorry for the RIAA ever. It's constantly just spewing pure ********. They say that they are losing money to piracy, but they don't note how they are only producing 20% less albums than previous years. They also blame the high prices on piracy, even though it costs about 1-2 dollars to make a cd and case.

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by vegeta rocker [/i]
[B]But if I really enjoy an artist i will buy it. Like the X soundtrack. I bought it halfway for the pictures.

[/B][/QUOTE]

And chances are, that was a bootleg.

[wrist cutter]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Wintermute [/i]
[B]I do download some things, but alway sthings I can justify to myself. J-pop, for instance.[/B][/QUOTE]

The fact it is from Japan is not an excuse not to buy CDs. I have bought well over 50 Japanese CDs in a matter of roughly 5 years, and I know TN has quite a large collection too.

So what you can't just walk into a store and pick up the latest release for $15... you can buy them all over on the internet.

[url]http://www.yesasia.com[/url]
[url]http://www.cdjapan.co.jp[/url]
[url]http://www.hmv.co.jp[/url]

ENGLISH resources for Japanese music. Remember foreign artists need your support just as much as domestic ones.

And TN reminded me of a good point - don't buy bootlegs. The three places listed above don't sell them, but everytime you find a CD that seems like a good deal, it's a scam.