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What Punk REALLY means for all you people who dont REALLY know.

Hells Angel

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[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=DarkOrange]A punk is somebody different, not afraid to be themselves. The same is for metalheads and goths, but I'm talking about punk here. Punk is about having a bond with the music you listen to, music that makes a statement. Lots of good punk rock has to do with political statements and so on. Is about having strong opinions that are different than the rest, and having the ability to accept mostly everybody. I'm a punk, and I give preppies a chance to be my friend, but I just realize I don't get along with most of them. At my school, all the preps care about is being popular, being with the boys, and being socially "perfect." Actually, don't call me a punk. That's only what I would be called by those who label.... I don't label myself. I am me, not a genre or a style or a type of clothing. That's what being a true punk is, being you, and not labeling yourself. When everybody starts to label themselves, that's when social conformity occurs.[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=DarkOrange][/COLOR][/B]

Punk isnt a fashion statement, and plus we shouldnt be judging people that is just so WRONG! :mad:
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[QUOTE=Hells Angel][B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=DarkOrange]...punks... ...metalheads... ...goths... ...preppies...
Actually, don't call me a punk. That's only what I would be called by those who label...[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=DarkOrange][/COLOR][/B]
Punk isnt a fashion statement, and plus we shouldnt be judging people that is just so WRONG! :mad:[/QUOTE]
I'm certainly glad there wasn't any labeling there.[/size]
[quote name='Hells Angel][B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=DarkOrange]Punk is about having a bond with the music you listen to, music that makes a statement.[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=DarkOrange][/COLOR'][/B][/quote]
[size=1]All music makes a statement. Whether you agree with it or not is up to you, but all music put out some kind of message. Punk isn't special in that regard.

I'm pretty sure there's some kind of music forum around here...
Could be wrong though...[/size]
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[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia]Woah, I didn't realize one person could contradict themselves so many times in one paragraph.

I usually try to avoid labels, labeling other people, etc., like you said. But the whole reason you made this thread was to say what "punks" really were, right? If you don't agree with labeling, what's the point in calling anyone a punk, prep, goth, etc.?

Not that I'm bashing you as a person. I just don't understand what you planned to make known with this thread, that's all. It seems pointless to me.[/FONT][/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=kenshinsbabe][SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia]Woah, I didn't realize one person could contradict themselves so many times in one paragraph.

I usually try to avoid labels, labeling other people, etc., like you said. But the whole reason you made this thread was to say what "punks" really were, right? If you don't agree with labeling, what's the point in calling anyone a punk, prep, goth, etc.?

Not that I'm bashing you as a person. I just don't understand what you planned to make known with this thread, that's all. It seems pointless to me.[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

I was trying to make a point that you two didnt understand. People at school look at others that are different, weird, and makes stero types for those people that is all wrong. They think that punks is people that does nothing but wrong, is people that dresses up all in black and wears weird makeup, and does drugs. That what my point is, I was just trying to tell those people that punk isnt about what all those stero types out there make it out to be. I dont label but in this case I had to make an exception. Whether you like it or not I coudl car less I was just making a statement. *shrugs*
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by [B]Hells Angel[/B]

They think that punks is people that does nothing but wrong, is people that dresses up all in black and wears weird makeup, and does drugs. That what my point is, I was just trying to tell those people that punk isnt about what all those stero types out there make it out to be.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia]Was anyone on the boards saying that you were "some punk kid" or something? Most people on this site don't do that kind of thing, and if they do, it's pointless to give them any thought whatsoever. Most people here don't steriotype people. That's why I was saying that I thought this thread was pointless.

Once again, I don't think you're a bad person at all. You've done nothing to make me think that.[/FONT][/SIZE]
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Actually if anything it's more like the clothing types carry a label with them and the people who wear them just get hit with it by default. I'm not one to say what being 'punk' means but I can tell you I listen to the music. I bond with it. I also bond with Sarah McLachlan, Disney, Rie Fu...

That's why I avoid labels. Interesting though to read what you believe punk is. I believe, nowadays, it's more or less a musical style and a clothing style...I suppose someone who followed it devotedly without liking anything else would be pure punk? I dunno, I don't look at someone and think they are punk just cause of how they look.

...I don't think I made sense at all. Blah. Labels are a confusing topic when you try to actually pinpoint a label.
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i wasnt really in to punk when it was big... i dont even remember it being big... i was probably too young or too into video games to notice...

but its because of this feeling that i have, that being that punk is dead, that the word punk carries a feeling of the same calibur as chivalry... the spirit of punk is something good to see in my eyes... no matter where it shows up... ppl who arnt afraid to step out of the expected to tell you that something needs to change...

i guess to sum it up theres two types of ppl i like in the world... ppl who can either do whats expected of them in some sort of orderly way and can do it extreamly well and dont fall into distraction and ppl who know they cant do something right and despite the few of others go out and find something else that works
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I don't get it.

All I can see, is that you hold your "label" or stereotype of being a "punk" in high regard, but you hate the actual fact that you're being labeled.

Which in the end, makes no sense. ;)

This statement you're trying to pass off is two-sided.

Those two sides are completely opposite from one-another, they totally conflict with each-other.


...And I agree with only one (obviously) of those two sides.


On a side-note, I think it's more how you look that what you say, that adds to the whole stereotype thing. People might say what they want or whatever about a "punk", but the only reason they say it is because of the way a "punk" looks in the first place. Same as with the "preppies" and the "goths" and the "nerds" and every other "category" I'm too lazy to list.

-Just my bit of information, useless as it may seem.
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I suggest people put in the Independent Film Channel and watch "Punk: Attitude" or pick up "Afropunk" or any of the other multitude of punk related documentaries. Every time a weird thread like this pops up, the same things have to be said that wouldn't even be posed here if people knew anything about its history.

People are way too critical of what belongs in "punk" and what doesn't. There's almost always been a punk image (although most of it was created by stores and fans in the UK, most bands didn't even wear the same sort of things), a punk sound as contrasted to the punk ideal, the general "do-it-yourself" mentality. The original ideas of all of this pretty much were just going to explode out eventually anyway... the whole image was an afterthought. Marketing people didn't know how to advertise it, but once they did it pretty much became a packaged deal that anyone could buy into... which is pretty much how it still is today with the current punk revival.

An interesting thing about many of these documentaries is that members of original punk bands themselves talk about the basic ideal of "punk as something very transferable. For example, they were talking about the relationship between punk at the time and the early hip-hop groups and such. It pushes the idea that I try to give here in these threads that there's an obvious difference between a punk sound and the ideal itself. They're not always both present.
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[CENTER][SIZE=1]Most of what I will have to say here will apply mainly to punk as a music genra, but meh.[/SIZE][/CENTER]

[quote name='Rasetsutaisho']i wasnt really in to punk when it was big... i dont even remember it being big... i was probably too young or too into video games to notice... [/quote]

[CENTER][SIZE=1]'Punk' and 'Goth' is the pupular clothing and music style right now. More people shop at Hot Topic and buy punk CDs than ever before, and every other person you will claim themselves to be either 'punk' or 'goth'. It's only a way to get attention though, I assure you ;)

Also, many of your supposed 'punks' have a problem with others who claim to be punk, but don't fit your personal criteria. That's what many have conformed 'punk' to, just another way to judge. Take Avril Lavigne for example, she loves to play music. Noone would have a problem with her, but she chooses to call herself 'punk'. Since she doesn't fit the 'punk' image and 'punk' music to a T, all supposed 'punks' bash her and curse her name for defiling the 'punk' image.

Now, there was a thread in the Music, Movies, and TV forum a while back that was labeled 'Punk is Dead.' I remember a certain post in that thread that I found particularly amusing... *Checks back* Aha![/SIZE][/CENTER]

[QUOTE=Drix D'Zanth]Avril is more punk than any artist since the Ramones... why?

My thesis:

Punk- paraphrased and defined is commonly intepreted as "going against the system" we hear references to that toward all sorts of establishment and government, society being bettered by independence and free-rocking.

The Ramones, despite occuring around the same time as the Sex Pistols and after The Clash, basically started the genre. They started "Punk rock" .. and every band following it has taken the basic methods of the Ramones and slightly deviated, continuing the system that is "punk".

Avril plays soft rock and pop, calls it 'punk" and broadcasts it mainstream. She is directly defying the system that is "punk rock".

Hence, Avril is the punk-est of them all.[/QUOTE]


Of course, he was just joking (I was amazed at his daring though, I must say!) but I believe that sums up my point nicely. 'Punk' as a lifestyle OR as a music style has no set parimeters, and no set laws. It is not for you to say what 'punk' is and what 'punk' isn't.

I hope you'll notice whenever I used the words 'Punk' and 'Goth' I used quotation marks. Why? Well... I won't say I don't believe in labeling, because EVERY person has labeled others (in thier head or out loud) at some time or another. I merely think 'Punk' just means going against the grain, something ALL teenagers strive for. Does that mean all rebelious 17 year olds are 'punks'? Why, maybe it does!

And supposed 'goths' are just a sort of runoff of 'punks' and metalheads... Except most spend all thier time trying to be wierd so that they can claim they are missunderstood, lol.

--Everything I said (While cruel) is said merely out of contact with so many people, I've found these statments to be true[/SIZE].[/CENTER]
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I like Drix, but his contention with that is one of the stupidest things related to "punk" ideas that I've ever read... half-joking or not. That's the second time he used it and it was even less useful then. As I recall, it was pretty much denounced by people who actually knew what they were talking about (Heaven's Cloud, for one)... not just simply a bunch of people who hate anything not "punk enough".

I'm going at this from the idea of a punk sound versus a punk ideal, which I usually use lol.

We're not really talking about the punk sound in Avril's case. Even if we're generous with what should be included in the genre (and I think it's best to be generous with all genre constraints personally), her sound just doesn't mesh with what one would put within even the most vague punk rock descriptors at all. Like it or not, genres have general contraints. You don't just pick what you want to be and everyone magically calls you that. I don't even really dislike her music, so that's not my angle with this.

So what that leaves us with is the idea that she is somehow within the punk ideal because she's fighting against the norm. What has she fought against? What important things has she said? From all I've seen, she was picked up by a major label for doing Sarah McLaughlin covers, transformed into something more brooding, given songs written by lyricists (with some of her own input), told to wear certain "punk uniform" clothes that general people identify with punk for whatever reason and that was the end of it. Ironically, you have her running around saying she's not punk in a variety of interviews and such, so I'm not sure why this has been perpetuated.

BUT, if we're going to consider what she is doing here going against the grain, counter-culture or anti-establishment that's a totally different story. We're really, [I]really[/I] lowering the bar here. Have people gotten that lazy? Is it just a matter of doing something the opposite in a commercial, consumer/seller setting nowadays?

If having a company change your style and portray you as something you don't even consider yourself is "going against the grain" I have to question people's thought processes. There's nothing anti-anything about Avril (or her marketing team if not directly her) and what she managed to present. We might as well consider Carrot Top's comedy act "punk" because he still attempts lame prop comedy in a time where it's no longer considered "cool" lol. Hey, everyone, I'm white but I'm going to call myself African American. I'm not one, but man, I'm going against the grain!!! No. It doesn't work.

So we wind up with two "no's" here. She doesn't play punk music and she doesn't do anything that can be construed into fitting within punk's ideal (again, the DIY mentality is a main component of this) either. If she had one or the other, I'd certainly have no complaints here. Afterall, I defend the random "pop punk" bands here for at least fitting within the general sound. I don't dislike Avril for not fitting in these things. I don't dislike her in general. The general idea presented in that quote is just illogical and incorrect.

And finally, the Ramones first album came out a full year before The Clash's (and they formed three years before). Considering how short the initial punk movement was, a year is an eternity. The Ramones are credited as the first punk rock band because they should be.

Drix's comment is funny in a satirical sort of way, but it holds no real ground in any knowledgable discussion about the genre, the movement or its history. I don't know why it's continually popping up on here again and again. I personally use genres to describe movements and music. I couldn't care less what people are wearing or screaming about in a situation like this and I certainly don't run around pigeon-holing people into separate groups based on their appearance (preppies vs goths? who cares?)... but genres need and use labels. We'd have no way to discuss or trace them otherwise. I don't see what's so bad about that, it's just double-edged depending on how people use it.
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[SIZE=1]First of all, I'm tired of people saying how much they hate labels and then posting threads to discuss them. "I hate labels sooo much, I can't believe people are so ignorant...I'm so punk though," *sigh* Pretty much all these labels stem from music, yet people make so much more out of them and decide to classify people as one or the other. It's music people, music. Music is one of the 40985704398 things you can classify someone by, shouldn't there be something a little more indepth to choose and generalize people for...like personality? I mean, if you're going to classify people, at least do it in a worthwhile fashion so you're not left with friends who simply enjoy the same music.

And in the end, the labels really don't mean anything at all. People see something visual they like, so they decide to act "punk" or "goth." So half the people you're left with weren't even classified properly since all you've seen is a front they created. Would you like to base your life on a genre of music? In a thread I posted about "emo," I came to the realization that there was nothing I could do about the label, so I merely wanted to understand it. I think it's best to do the same here. Just accept that some people care more for your clothes and musical interests then you as a person. And once you realize who these people are, simply discard them from your life.[/SIZE]
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I didn't realize you could mispell so many words, either.

Labels are going to exist whether you want them to or not. Saying that you're unique- that you're not like everyone else- that you don't want to be judged- isn't that labeling yourself?

It is, but in more words.

And usually, you can't put a label on yourself. So when you say you're a punk, we know what you really are.

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  • 3 months later...
Guest crazybarrelhors
:animeswea [FONT=Courier New]undefined[/FONT][COLOR=Red]undefined[/COLOR] Yes that is true i am new and just read this and i agree. I am sorry but i dont even title those you call preps true it is impossible to get along with any of them but to call names is no good. I dont call myself punk becuse it is a title like you said, i leave that to any one who choose to do so. I hang with ne one who choose to see me as myself and not for the peircings and tattos and dark clothes. Man I hate that!!!! CrazyBarrelHorse out
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When I hear the word 'punk' I immediately think 'nonconformity'.

Then I look at todays 'punks'. They're frelling conformists! Rather, let me clarify--They're nonconformists conforming with other nonconformists, so therefore they can't be nonconformist, can they?

If you avoid labels, then don't say what people lable you as. Or, try to defy that label and make something of yourself. People might actually think more of you if you make a statement that hasn't already been made.

Punk has become a trend. Punk is just another fad that will pass, so don't think much over it. Be yourself, Hell's Angel, and don't worry over trying to fit in with lables people give you.

A label is just a lable, created by people to help them judge others. It isn't infalliable, so don't rely on it in your life. Ever.
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There's been a few people at my school going around asking wverybody "What's your label" I think it's rather amusing, actually, because everyone labels differently and some people don't label. Our school has some pretty strange people, and my friends are just my friends... We don't label ourselves, each other, or others. Labeling people, for me anyway, creates something like a psycological barrier that says something like "Don't talk to this person they're one of [i]them[/i]" and so I just don't do it. Quite honestly I think it's rather pointless to label when no one will care in a few years anyway.

LMAO... this thread just reminds me how much I love you guys XD OBers are the best ^_^
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Okay, so here goes. Kill me with words if you wish, but this is it as I see it:
I classify/label people all the time, we all do it, it's a natural thing in the human brain that says, "Hey that's a...whatchamacallit!" It's like "pretty" and "ugly." One person thinks you're pretty, and the next thinks you're ugly. That's a label. Any form of quality is a label. You can put a label on almost anything, whether it's how you dress, how you act, how you live, what you do. It's all a part of human mentality. Get over it. I have. Hell, they call me a rocker and a goth and a poseur. I don't care anymore. I am the almighty Vicki-ism, and if they don't like it and choose to associate me by what I wear and who I hang out with, that's fine with me. I'm probably doing the same to them, and the whole world does it to everybody, no matter how much we deny it.
And Punk? To me, it's a style of music that I don't really care for, and it's also a group of people that are within my network of friends. If I were to classify Punk going by how my friends are, it would be this: fun, obnoxious, loud, some of them smoke, some do drugs, some drink, and some don't believe in any of that, some make their own clothes or alter clothes to how they like, get in trouble, go to shows alot even on weekdays, hate the administration and security at school, and are very up front, as well as being some of the nicest people that you could ever meet...while being quite perverse. That's just some of my friends. Not all people who are or who claim to be "punk" are like this, and I respect that, in some ways. The people who run around listening to Good Charlotte, Avril Lavigne, Simple Plan, Sum 41, Blink 182, etc., well, they make me sick. They probably don't even know how the whole punk movement started, except that it's "cool." Most of these people are actually pretty nice. There are some rotten eggs in the carton, but alot of people like to ignore them and throw them out before the rest go bad (i.e, people like my good friends Tim and Luke like to make them cry because of how idiotic they are, so they go away). I'd like to think that maybe, just maybe, there's not TRUE definition of what Punk is nowadays, but, too many people would argue over that and so I'll just stick with this: Cold Case. Can't be solved.
There, that's my rant. I have nothing more to say as of right now, so yeah...Enjoy. :animesmil
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[COLOR=DarkRed]The first thought that popped in my head with reading this thread title. "Who cares?"

We've all stated at least some time or another that labeling people are bad right? So...

If you call yourself punk, and you tell others the who, what, when, where, how you are a punk and what a punk 'truly' is, aren't you setting yourself up for being made fun of? Also, what if someone takes what you say in a bad way? If they tease you for it, then you just feel bad and blame them for being mean.

Just a thought...[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE][Quote]The first thought that popped in my head with reading this thread title. "Who cares?"[/Quote][/QUOTE]

Omg, I love you Ryli :animesmil !!!

Honestly, whats the big deal??? Most steriotypical "Punks" are like what the others said, they smoke when their young for no reason but to be "cool", they wear clothes to express themselves (but sometimes go a bit overboard, in my opinion), and have a bad attitude to others except those who act like them. Everyone lables, it goes the same for gays, Jocks, nerds, etc. You can be yourself but if you wanna destinguish yourself as "Punk" then thats the basic reachtions people are going to give you when they look at you.

But besides that, get over it.
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I've been called a punk....heh...after I threw something through a window...man I was a bad egg sometimes...

The reason you say people call punks people who do wrong things and such is well because that's where the name CAME from...Some bands played their music...more conservative grown-ups or elderly, didn't like it. (they HATE change...or so it seems.) So they used their name for misbehaving kids that wasn;t a curse word...you lousy punk...I guess eventually some people thought that would be a cool name or more along the lines a defiant name and stuck with it...If you insist on calling yourself a 'punk' guess what...you're going to have that steryotype hanging over you...why? Because the work and meaning of 'punk' has been around far longer than the music genre
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Punk is no longer Punk anymore. Punk is supposed to be apposing what is popular, going against the grain of everything. And in a society where Punk is accepted as a main stream trend, it then looses purpose. This is why I respect those, such as bands, who do not use such label's to catergorize themselves. That is truely in the spirit of Punk.

And if I had to spring up a band or two off the top of my head that holds these things true, it would probably be bands such Weezer or The Darkness, who simply don't care about anything other than making music the way they want to make it. No punky look, no outside influence. Just music. If you get an endorsment for a corporate company, then you basically have to accept the fact that you aren't Punk anymore. So, here's looking to you, Simple Plan and Good Charlotte. Ya freakin' sell outs. But thats besides the point.

If you call yourself Punk, then your basically going against what it means to be Punk. Punk means being different, being basically against all that is considered 'cool' at the time, and doing what you wanna do without care for what others may think. If ya gotta label yourself, then you know you care.

No, I'm not Punk. I like Hip Hop too much to label myself in that category. Am I Hip Hop? No, cuz I like rock music too much to be considered Hip Hop. I'm me. Basically, if you wanna be Punk, the you gotta just be you, and tell the rest of the world to screw itself.

Least... that's what I think what Punk used to mean.[/color][/size]
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  • 2 weeks later...
OK. First of all I'm what you call a "punk", but I don't label myself. I'm just saying that so you know what I mean. And I hate it when peole label others. I mean, if we're all human, what's wrong with us? I don't care how much money you have, where you're from, skin color, whatever! It doesn't matter to me! What really counts is what kind of person you are. Are you pure and innocent? Are you crazy and wild? That's what i hate about people. They pre-judge you before they even get to know you! I can't stand that! You are who you are. And I am who I am. Everything else shouldn't matter. And if you think other wise, you don't like people for themselves. You like pepole for their looks or their material possesions.You don't see what's on the inside. You don't see what matters.And further more, I hate it when people aren't true to themselves. Even if you hate yourselves, you should find something good about you, so you can stop lieing to yourself. But, actually I don't think it's that easy. I used to hate myself until I found someone I could be true to. And when they told me that they liked me, I could start to like myself. So if you are someone who hates yourself, I suggest you start to search for someone who can truly make you happy.
And as for music, I love to connect myself and express myself through playing and singing music. Music makes me feel comfortable. It's like poetry through rythem.
And if you thought that all of this was ridiculous, know that it was written by a 14 year-old girl who has found happiness after a lifetime of pain in suffering alone in eternal darkness...
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