Juu Posted March 20, 2003 Author Share Posted March 20, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i] [B]I never even brought up winning or lossing. I never brought up terrorism. However you did bring up actions not supported by the u.n. So unless you can tell me what happend to 30,000 people in rowanda while the U.N. stood by and did nothing, just shut up. Im not even gonna honor your stupidity as to what happend in the first gulf war. Nor will I acknowledge your lack of consistancy when you didnt protest the un-approved actions against kosavo and bosnia that Mr. clinton took with out the U.N.'s approval. As for vietnam, I doubt you know a thing about it besides the lacking ideas and concept taught by inept teachers at public schools. (do you even know the years of U.S. involvment? Hint: they arent 64 to 73.) Sorry to be rough, but when you get on my case, youve got it coming to you. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=ff00cc] [size=1]I wasn't on your case. The whole post wasn't even directed at you. My lack of knowledge? Stupidity? I'm in advanced honors in World History. My history teacher's husband, who's American, fought in the Vietnam war. My grandfather also fought in the Vietnam war. Also, my school is a public school with private school abilites. It's courses are different than all the other middle schools in the district, not to mention our school has the highest scores/test scores in the city. Thank you for not 'honoring' my stupidity. I highly appreciate it. Nothing was appointed to you in the first place. So [i]you[/i] shut up. ----- Yes, I didn't mean to put that in a rude way, Justin. I know alot of the things Iraq has done, and I didn't mean it like Iraq's completely innocent.[/color] [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKnight Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [color=crimson]Finally, it got boring after Afghanistan quieted down. I'm for war. It livens things up, it kills people faster than just monotonous life. Lol. So, Go America. Imperialism in its prime, horrah.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Gokents I've respected you for a long time, but settle down. With a topic like this you've got to be able to seperate emotions before you post. Posting with your emotions on something so strong as this can offend very many people. As in this case I know it offended atleast one. I agree with you. It is a complicated issue. You really do need to know alot to adaquitly (Sp) debate on this issue, but thats awful hard when you have so much propaganda floating around now a'days. I don't think two countries are getting the same story. I think that we truly don't know everything he hasn't/has done. Everyone who is even thinking about posting needs to settle down. I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a mod/admin I'm not trying to just stating the facts. I haven't decided on this war yet. I do not feel as strongly against Bush as you do Gokents, in fact I think that we need to support him. Unless you think/know you could (potentially) hold millions of peoples lives in your hand EVERY day then you need to support him. Being the president takes so much out of you. It literally shortens your life. Have you seen how much he has aged. Have you seen how much passion he puts into his work. He make look like an idiot but he's trying. I don't think its as easy as we think it is. I don't think any US citizen (not gov. workers) can know how truly complicated this issue is. People are going to die, thats true. But how many would die before. How many wouldn't? We don't know. Its a stab in the dark really, trying to stop the future before it happens. That seems to be what the US trys to do. Stop the future, before it comes to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 When I say that man is his own worst predator, I mean it. [b][color=red]The last thing I want to see is people divided on these boards because of this war. It seems silly, but if we let this get out of hand, it can come to that. Where peeps will go, "Oh, so-and-so is from this country, meaning they (opinion) the war, so we should avoid them."[/color][/b] It (the war) is happening. Nothing's going to stop it. All I know is, I don't want people to die. But they are--right now, in fact. As much as I support Bush, I noticed that he had a note of "I know Saddam's not gonna give up" during his Ultimatum speech. Makes me wonder... As far as Iraq's weapons--they are kinda sad. One of my mangers told me they can't get far, so we don't have to worry about being blown up. And [i]if[/i] Korea tried something, we'd prolly turn around and overkill them 5 times over. Not that I'm supporting that. Frankly, it was/is economic suicide to try to blow the USA up. I suppose that is our invinsible security blanket thought. What it's coming down to, like one of my fellow servers said, is getting rid of the weapons, and doing hand to hand combat. [i]That[/i] has an unpredicitable outcome, and, if certain events happened, we might slip into WWIII. I'll stop now. Don't want to be an alarmist. But really, it's started now. IMO, Saddam had every oppurtunity to back down. But politically, this wasn't a wise move on Bush's part. "Back down or we'll make you." Did you hear the reply from Iraq? Basically the same thing. We're trying to "save" the Iraqi people from their leader. The question is, in all honesty, did they want to be save? Propoganda from there says no, thoughts over here say yes. Ginny's rambling enough now...and I'm surprised I didn't a thread on this back on Tues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domon Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Actually war is [i]not[/i] terrorism its a last resort used by countries when peaceful resolutions fail. And i don't believe that for one second Saddam Hussein was even disarming. He just took apart a few missiles, a few out of how many? I definetly am against war, but if we have to resort to it than so be it. I just hope this ends soon. This is all I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Honestly, I want Iraq gone. Nuked off the face of the planet. Due to Saddam's army, my older brother's best friend's older brother [whom I was actually close with] never returned home. This decade old vendetta ends now. Since America still houses more nukes than the START1 treaty allows, well...*paints target on Iraq* Here's America's chance to make themselves legit with Russia. Also, Iraq and Saddam "support terrorism". Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posthumous Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [color=teal][size=1][b]I hate war, I'm against war.We can't have peace, why can't we have peace? What happened to freedom?Freedom of Speech.People can't protest a war without getting arrested. What happened in the years 1992-2000? Nothing.Now we are going to start a war.Pfft. What happened when Clinton was in office?Bush just f***** it all up.I know about the Cold War and stuff around 10-15 years ago.But when did(Iraq) do to us afterwards?Nothing.BTW right now I am living in Turkey, the country north of Iraq.[/b][/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Well, we are at war now. Sorrta reminds me of when Italy attacked Ethiopia preWWII. Welcom to the new world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Easy, Psyco. Don't you think that [i]because[/i] of our inactivity we are in this mess? I don't want war. But war is here. I don't want people to die. But people are dying. Forget about who started it and why, let's all just pray and hope it ends soon, with as little life loss as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I've got a question. This is just food for thought. What did these years of peace get us. (1992-2001(2)) Thousands of dead bodies in one block. Isreal and Palenstine. Its not Bush! He's just another human being. Its us, humans. We as humans have an agressive nature. We're greedy. We're flawed. Stop blaming ONE man for the flaws of MAN KIND! Watch Endless Waltz sometime. I think that it explains it well. I'm sorry I'm getting sick of people complaining about Bush. Yeah Clinton was so great! Uh huh. Yeah well we can't judge the two. Clinton didn't have to deal with a terriost attack. Clinton only prolonged the Isreal/Palenstine conflict (which made it worse.) And Clinton only gave North Korea money, encouraging them to keep threatening us. Stop complaining people. Go to somewhere else if you really don't like it here in America. I know this doesn't apply to your Psyco. I'm sorry if I am sounding rude, I'm just getting tired of it. Does anyone really like war? Do you think Bush is sitting there right now going, "Yay war! Thousands of people are going to die, I can't wait!" I doubt it! War is an entity itself. It strikes when ITS ready not us. Besides Bush didn't start this. The terriosts did. People say Bush is just cleaning up what his father started. Well guess what he was provoked. Which in the court would just be considered self-defense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Still, I want Bill Back... I'm very nostalgic about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Juuthena [/i] [B][color=ff00cc] [size=1] I'm in advanced honors in World History. My history teacher's husband, who's American, fought in the Vietnam war. My grandfather also fought in the Vietnam war. Also, my school is a public school with private school abilites. It's courses are different than all the other middle schools in the district, not to mention our school has the highest scores/test scores in the city. Thank you for not 'honoring' my stupidity. I highly appreciate it. [/color] [/size] [/B][/QUOTE] And what does that have to do with anything? World History is too vague of a subject anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Never wish Bill back. And the US should have taken out Sadam about 10 years ago. It is about time that it came full circle for him. And as I understand it, Sadam has been making some promises of killing Americans and attacking our country. I am not too keen on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I'm wishing him back. Maybe I will pray to Joe Pesci for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] [B]And what does that have to do with anything? World History is too vague of a subject anyway. [/B][/QUOTE] It has to deal with gokents 'insulting' Juu's intelligence. And the fact that she happens to know a lot about the Vietnam war, which gokents brought up. Pay attention, Harry. By the way, American History doesn't dive into the Vietnam War much. Barely goes past the 1950s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domon Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Harry, your post is to vague... Medra. You are a very well voiced member and aren't afraid to speak your mind, but what you just said was just wrong. I understand that you're very mad. But using Nuclear weapons would cause a fallout so catastrophic the deathtoll would be huge. We have never used Nuclear weapons since the end of WW2 and using them now is wrong. If we were to use a nuke on that little country it would be wiped entirely off the face of the map! There are still inocennt civilans there. And we just use the Nuke tactic as a "who's got the bigger balls" contest. We did that with Russia in the 1950s. And did we luanch a nuke then? No. Luanching a Nuke would do us more harm than good. So I definetly sugguest you reconsider your statement. Sorry to sound disrespectful but you really should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigervx Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Domon [/i] [B]Harry, your post is to vague... Medra. You are a very well voiced member and aren't afraid to speak your mind, but what you just said was just wrong. I understand that you're very mad. But using Nuclear weapons would cause a fallout so catastrophic the deathtoll would be huge. We have never used Nuclear weapons since the end of WW2 and using them now is wrong. If we were to use a nuke on that little country it would be wiped entirely off the face of the map! There are still inocennt civilans there. And we just use the Nuke tactic as a "who's got the bigger balls" contest. We did that with Russia in the 1950s. And did we luanch a nuke then? No. Luanching a Nuke would do us more harm than good. So I definetly sugguest you reconsider your statement. Sorry to sound disrespectful but you really should. [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=teal] Your right Domon, if we "Nuke" the entire country to the ground, we will betray ourselves. The president said he wished to MINIMIZE civilain casaulties. We do not want to wipe out serveral million people. It would do more damage then what Sadam was EVER capable. I, out of most people respect you Medra, but I'm just saying your overreacting. A full scale nuclear war could be set out of that! Keep that in mind.[/SIZE][/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [color=#808080]I just want to make a couple of points about this thread before discussion continues. First, I'll allow this thread [i]because[/i] the war has started. Previous threads were more of a speculative discussion discussing legal issues and such. However, I want to make one thing utterly clear to everyone; let's keep this discussion very clean and to-the-point. I don't want to see personal attacks and I want to encourage everyone to keep control of their emotions in this thread. Perhaps this time, a thread will not need to be closed due to problematic members. I sincerely hope that everyone will remain level-headed here. Though that should go without saying. Let's bear in mind that we're a close community and it's important for everyone to behave in a respectful manner -- if you disagree with someone's points, it's fine to respond to those points one by one. It's fine to dissect their argument. That isn't spam or flaming. But if you start saying things like "you're and idiot" etc, you're only going to inflame things. Anyone who [i]does[/i] decide to initiate personal attacks will be out of here. It doesn't take much effort to carefully consider the way you present your points.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyLyn Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 *applauds James whole heartedly* That's what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigervx Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [SIZE=1][COLOR=teal] *Sits in a corner silently ashamed.*[/SIZE][/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Medra [/i] [B]It has to deal with gokents 'insulting' Juu's intelligence. And the fact that she happens to know a lot about the Vietnam war, which gokents brought up. Pay attention, Harry. [/b][/quote] Like I said just because you're in some Honors course in Middle School doesn't mean your smart. [quote][b]By the way, American History doesn't dive into the Vietnam War much. Barely goes past the 1950s. [/B][/QUOTE] True. [quote]But using Nuclear weapons would cause a fallout so catastrophic the deathtoll would be huge[/quote] Not really. Assuming the it detonates above the ground it won't be as catastrophic as you say, granted it won't be the best thing for the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Juuthena [/i] [B][color=ff00cc] [size=1]I wasn't on your case. The whole post wasn't even directed at you. My lack of knowledge? Stupidity? I'm in advanced honors in World History. My history teacher's husband, who's American, fought in the Vietnam war. My grandfather also fought in the Vietnam war. Also, my school is a public school with private school abilites. It's courses are different than all the other middle schools in the district, not to mention our school has the highest scores/test scores in the city. Thank you for not 'honoring' my stupidity. I highly appreciate it. Nothing was appointed to you in the first place. So [i]you[/i] shut up. ----- Yes, I didn't mean to put that in a rude way, Justin. I know alot of the things Iraq has done, and I didn't mean it like Iraq's completely innocent.[/color] [/size] [/B][/QUOTE] Alright, I admit, I was out of line. I am sorry. Truely sorry. I was just bent out of shape over the fact that you had implied many things that were contraversial to say the least. Vietnam should have never been brought up. I did go out of line. I apoligize, and understand that slowly my outspoken political nature has alienate you over the past few months. However, I do want you to address the questioning of my post and not the out of line insults. Can you honestly tell me about what happend march 16th all those years ago. These are the sorts of things you must know off hand with certainty before you can debate whether this war is justified or not. Or what the real purpose of this war is. I do not support this war because of threats to america, I support it because of the on going threats to Iraq. The past is more than enough to justify action and this action should have been taken long ago. I am sorry for my insults, but not for my support of this morally justified removal of Saddam's regime. (note that I was not the one to bring up the vietnam war, Medra) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Change Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I just want everyone to relizes some things. 1. We are the agressor. 2. We have never done this before and it opens the door to future "blunders" 3. We would not go there if they did not have oil. (Halaberton already has the oil contracts for the Iraqi oil fields). 4. We are performing an action that the international community has ruled through the U.N. as Illigel, and we are in violation of the U.N. Resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigervx Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Harry [/i] Not really. Assuming the it detonates above the ground it won't be as catastrophic as you say, granted it won't be the best thing for the environment. [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=teal] Receding shockwaves? Radiation poison? I hardly think that as minimul losses. It would kill at least ten million Harry. And I know alot about weapons, so I would know this stuff, considering the population of Iraq.[/SIZE][/COLOR] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gokents [/i] [B] Can you honestly tell me about what happend march 16th all those years ago. [/B][/QUOTE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=teal] Hmm, I think it was with the war with Iran, when he used Chemical and Biological weapons against the Iranians in a defending town. Or when he used Chemical or Biological weapons against the Curts. I really don't know which, or if it is either. But Sadam doesn't have a great history to say the least.[/SIZE][/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mei Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 [color=green][size=1]*Cheers for James* Keepin it peaceful!^^ Alright...now to voice my opinion...well...I have many opinions on this...sadly..--. First, us going to war, yeah its stupid and all...but..we kinda have to in a way. See heres the thing, Saddam is well, a very bad person, how else do I put it. He kills his own family if he suspects anything....he kills them for defying him.Oo He got into power by freakin killing that last leader. He has absolutely no concern for anyone else. So pretty much, we want to stop him and liberate his people. I guess you could say we aren't really at war with Iraq, but really with Saddam and his little government cronies....haha...funny word...cronies...>.>() Also, Iraq isn't a free roam place like the US, we can't just wander around and hope to get close to him. So it'd just be too hard to assasinate him.(I misspelled that...--) Plus he has body doubles(again the no concern for other's lives) so we couldn't be sure if we really got him. He keeps in power by threats and fear.Oo I really am against the war thing though, at least in a way. There is going to be loss of innocent lives, though we do want to liberate the people of Iraq. We are going to lose some soldiers...which I would rather not happen, but lets just hope this goes quickly, and as peaceful as a war can get. Sorry if my little opinion offended anyone, but I just had to get that out.^^() Thankyou for reading!Oo[/size][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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