James Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 [color=#808080]The idea of taking a gay character and making him heterosexual shouldn't be offensive to anyone. Neither should the reverse. I think that's really a moot point. From what I understand, yaoi/yuri can be completely pornographic (hentai). But it can also be like a love story that does not include graphic depictions of sex. Yaoi/yuri is probably no different to any other kind of "love story" anime/manga in that sense. But when you're talking about homosexuality, I assume most people think of sex -- when they perhaps shouldn't be thinking of it at all. But I guess that's something for further discussion. And Millie, please do not double post. It's against the rules. If you're unsure of our rules, I recommend that you read them thoroughly.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Oh, OK, I'm sorry: usually it's considered impolite to put two such different topics in the same post. :o sorry sorry. . . Anyway, I will do that, sorry that I double post a lot. :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegeta rocker Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 I don't see what the big deal about them is, it's like watching Will & Grace. I don't really love the genre but if it is interesting i will check it out.Whats the big deal with doujinshi? It can be perverted but not all of it is. Some things are just funny and can only be fan drawn/written. A good example would be Hiei and Kurama stories. (yu yu hakusho) They are rather popular in that area. If it's like super perverted THEN its wrong. But if its inoccent little fox love, i have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imsirion Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by vegeta rocker [/i] [B]But if its inoccent little fox love, i have no problem with that. [/B][/QUOTE] I guess that would be ok for me, but its usually taken a lot farther. I do prefer regualr doujinshi that just carries the story, if its well written/drawn of course. (Oh, and MillieFan, my avatar is not Millie. Just a dancing, drunken hobbit ^^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Hehehe, sorry for the mistake: It looked really like her from that episode early on in Trigun (I think it was either "Lost July" or "B.D.N.") where all the characters but the ever-sensible Meryl were totally bombed at the city's celebration. Not one of my favorite scenes, and something I probably shouldn't have laughed at like I did what with my beliefs, nevertheless. . .:laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Well, what you said about the GW thing.... First of all, I believe that if you see a website you don't like that has that kind of content in it, it usually has a huge: THIS SITE HAS YAOI/SHOUNENE AI! MALEXMALE RELATIONSHIPS! Or some kind of warning that comes up before you enter the website. You see, to answer your question, if you started a website depicting the Gravitation guys going straight, yeah, I'd be a bit angry but I wouldn't say anything. Everyone has a right to express their opinions, and I doubt that the creator(s) or GW would go rampaging down the internet sueing people for writing about Heero/Duo or whatever shounene ai/yaoi couple. If you don't like shounen-ai/yaoi, just simply ignore it. It's extremely easy unless you're immature. EDIT: Of course, same goes for shoujo-ai/yuri! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Look, I don't want this thread to be seen as a slam against anyone or as a debate. Nor do I want it becoming a promotion of yaoi, which I personally am offended by and see as an insult to normal anime fans, writers, real homosexuals, and almost anyone else on the Internet including its own fans. I just have a question that's always sort of bothered me about the yaoi issue: why do straight, allegedly healthy girls even LIKE yaoi/shonen-ai pairings? I mean, I just don't understand it. I can sort of see why fangirls would like, say, male character fanservice or even lemon (although I really don't agree with either) but why would they like making the male characters unable to care about women? I'm sorry, but I'm just totally confused on this. Maybe some of you shonen-ai fans can explain it to me, and although I won't agree with you, I'll be on my way to understanding. :confuse2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Apparently two penises are better than one. How strange that women would like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakura Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I think it is gross and wrong. Lesbian couples and Gay couples just freak me out because they have to do it in gross,weird and disgusting ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven's Cloud Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ohkami [/i] [B]I think it is gross and wrong. Lesbian couples and Gay couples just freak me out because they have to do it in gross,weird and disgusting ways. [/B][/QUOTE] [color=indigo]Well, many straight couples do it in the same "gross, weird ways"...so I don't think you should be freaked out by gays and lesbians, it sounds to me like you are more disgusted by sex... As for yaoi, I really have never seen it and it is not something that would turn me on. However, whatever floats your boat floats your boat...it is better that you get your jollies of on a piece of paper then with an unwilling partner.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Whoever said we were healthy? lol. If guys get turned on by two ladies, who can't girls get turned on by two guys? I don't know, I like shounen-ai better. It's just so sweet to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezzyjean Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Its just so sweet, its still two people in love. Think about it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Personally I just think its about seeing the characters you love in every aspect possible. Humans like to fantasize and its just apart of it. Plus the fact that many of the people here pointed out. The more guys the better. For girls, I'm not saying everyone girl digs it but some do. Thats like saying every guy likes lesbians in a sexual way and is turned on by it. Its not true ;). Anyways contrary to popular belief it still is art, and all art should be respected to a limit. So it really doesn't bother me, besides I think its cute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MillieFan [/i] [B]Look, I don't want this thread to be seen as a slam against anyone or as a debate. Nor do I want it becoming a promotion of yaoi, which I personally am offended by and see as an insult to normal anime fans, writers, real homosexuals, and almost anyone else on the Internet including its own fans. I just have a question that's always sort of bothered me about the yaoi issue: why do straight, allegedly healthy girls even LIKE yaoi/shonen-ai pairings? I mean, I just don't understand it. I can sort of see why fangirls would like, say, male character fanservice or even lemon (although I really don't agree with either) but why would they like making the male characters unable to care about women? I'm sorry, but I'm just totally confused on this. Maybe some of you shonen-ai fans can explain it to me, and although I won't agree with you, I'll be on my way to understanding. :confuse2: [/B][/QUOTE] Right. Are you saying that homosexuals are all unhealthy? I don't think that makes sense. Who said that yaoi fangirls force the guys to hate women?! (okay, maybe it's ture with the GW fanfics...) I don't think anyone can make you 'understand' why some girls like it. From what I've read from this post and precious ones, your opinion seems to be extremely strong, and that's fine. It's your opinion. But I don't think we'll be able to make you understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Asuka Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 [color=hotpink][size=1]Heh, well I guess I have an interesting standpoint. I like anime guys that are hot and feminine looking. When imagining two of those hot guys pairing off, it doesn't bother me. I think it's a beautiful thing actually. Now, I don't like real life guys because I never see two hot ones paired off, it's always one nice one and one freaky one, but the anime guys are just so perfect. I never pay attention to the stuff, though. I just say I'm not against it. Now girl on girl, that's just a bit too much for me. Unless it's some sort of sweet concept. I'm not into the dirty whore, let's have sex because we're both girls things. Heh.. I hope that made sense. :bluesweat[/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transtic Nerve Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ohkami [/i] [B]I think it is gross and wrong. Lesbian couples and Gay couples just freak me out because they have to do it in gross,weird and disgusting ways. [/B][/QUOTE] lol, you're 14, you have NO idea what is gross, weird and digusting. For all you know you'll be some stupid street whore by the time you're 20. In which case people will be calling you the same thing. People who think like you are whaqt limit the society of humans. You are all losers who have no life and can only be disgusted by other people's lives which have NOTHING to do with your own when in reality YOU are the only one who is disgusting, weird, and gross. It's the same attraction that straight people have to Hentai. At least Yaoi is... it's sexually arousing, thats it's only purpose. Porn is the same way. Any porn is. It's all exagerated. It's all for pleasure of the viewer, nothing less, nothing more. It just happens to be in another style. SO what sthe attraction towards yaoi... well when you become gay, you can tell me, till then, you have no substancial point of view cause you don't know what it's like. (I don't mean that in a rude way) Shonen Ai on the other hand usually deals with LOVE as opposed to just sex. I find it extremely cute. It's not really sexually stimulating, in fact straight women go for this more than anything else. To see two guys in love, cuddling, kissing, whatever... Most girls do that in the States as well. I don't know why girls like it, you can read QA's answer above mine, but I can't tell you anything else cause I'm not a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanor Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I agree with Transtic Nerv. There's a huge difference between yaoi and shounen-ai contary to popular belief. Like I said before, I prefer shounen-ai more than yaoi. Heck, I don't think I've experienced yaoi before anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I am in disagreement with the whole gay/lesbo thing(religious thing, so don't ask), but I am tolerant of anyone who is gay or lesbian, and will respect that. I really don't think sexuality is something to base judgement of a person on. As for pairing up two straight anime characters and putting them together, I personally see no attraction about that, but since anime is the over-blown version of reality, people tend to have their imaginations run amok about anime... So I guess I can't blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillieFan Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Well, I'm understanding somewhat more now. I still disagree, but I'm slightly less confused, although I'm still more than a little confused. Ah well. . .can't understand everything I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveaReason Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 What annoys me about shonen or shojo ai is that people make more out of it than what is actually there. Some fans of yaoi and yuri see some innuendos and assume that more is going on than is actually there. I don't mind some homosexuality in anime as long as it's not too explicit and the sole purpose of the anime isn't to promote homosexuality. I loved the Slayers episode with the gay sea serpent. Keep in mind that many Christians(including me) have been taught that homosexuality is wrong, but that we believe that disliking people for any reason is wrong. I believe that all sin is equally wrong and that everyone sins, so we are all equally bad. That means being rude to people or hating them is wrong no matter how rude they seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Well, it's almost no distiction to me. Just like regular pairings, if it's written well, and the characters aren't too OOC, I like it. I never really saw what was so different about shounen-ai from regular romance fics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukeshi Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Okay here goes... Now, to me as a fan of yaoi not all male/male pairings are attractive. For instance I don't particularly think Shinji and Kawrou (?) make a good couple (no offense to any of those who do). It's just a different angle on looking at things. Most guys involved in Shounen-ai or yaoi pairings, canon or not, are often portrayed as being more feminine than they possibly are in the actual show (unless of course you're watching Gravi in which Yuki is just a cold b****d lol). Anyway, I don't think it's something to get offended over. It's like getting offended when fans create other non-canon pairings such as zechs/une in gundam wing or yui and hotohori in fushigi yuugi. It really doesn't effect you unless you go looking for it. Like I said, it's just an alternative and most of the time it's a harmless piece of sweet and shounen-ai/yaoi (also known as slash in non anime circles) can actually produce some amazingly good fics. Like Vertigo said there's very little distinction. I think you're just taking offense at the notion of homosexuality. You can dislike it, like you dislike any pairing straight or not. I steer clear of wufei/sally unless it's written well, cos it just doesn't appeal to me but I quite like zechs/noin so I'm not just attracted to yaoi/shounen-ai pairings see. It's just petty to take offense at something that's not directed at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibasuki Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 [FONT=arial]well, I've never seen an anime or read a manga that was shounen-ai, so I don't know if it would freak me out. but I'm pretty okay with the concept of it, since I'll occasionally read some fanfiction where that sort of thing is going on. as long as it doesn't get really graphic I don't mind it, but that goes for any sort of romance thing anyway. it would also depend on the pairing, though. some work really well, but some should NEVER be put together. at all :drunk:.[/FONT] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braidless Baka Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ohkami [/i] [B]I think it is gross and wrong. Lesbian couples and Gay couples just freak me out because they have to do it in gross,weird and disgusting ways. [/B][/QUOTE] I think you've been slammed enough for that (well maybe not enough... but enough that I don't have to repeat others) As for shounen/shoujou ai... I don't personally like it (I don't [i]mind[/i] it - but I don't go actively seeking it out in a squeeing fangirl-esque way ^_^ - I'm not quite that brave!), I'll watch an anime or read a manga for the plot, nothing more or less. So if there's a couple in an anime that're gay (male or female) then that's all good - take Gravitation for example, that was shounen ai the whole way through, but the plot relied on it, and it was a wonderful anime for it. But I think people are missing out if they draw a line at same-sex couples. There's a lot of great animes that include shounen / shoujou ai, and a load of great stories like that. Like Gravitation, Yami no Matsuei (where it wasn't [i]open[/i] shounen ai but even I couldn't fail to see the hints towards the end O_o), Card Captor Sakura was shoujou before it was dubbed apparently, likewise for Sailor Moon (so I gather), and in Fushigi Yuugi there was the character of Nuriko... So if you're saying "NO SHOUNEN AI!" you're missing out on a heck of a lot of good television! I think the "twisting the shows to get shounen ai fanfiction" idea really stems from fangirls not wanting any of the female characters getting their favourite guys ^_^;; *hides from the angered fangirls* They'd rather see their favourite guys paired off together than that annoying little "madame" getting "their" bishounen... Heh, that's my view anyway ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnelein Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Gay people exist in the real world, so why shouldn't we show up in anime too? Pairing off two characters who have absolutely nothing to do with each other is no good - it even bothers me - but that doesn't mean all shounen or shoujo ai is bad, or even against canon. In the reverse, "making guys from Gravitation straight" is no good because it's against canon. Fans should respect the wishes of the anime's creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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