Dan L

OK.. I cut the story way too much, so here it is-- uncut from [url]www.bible.com[/url] (including things I forgot about) Genesis 37 Joseph's Dreams 1 Jacob lived in the land where his father had stayed, the land of Canaan. 2 This is the account of Jacob. Joseph, a young man of seventeen, was tending the flocks with his brothers, the sons of Bilhah and the sons of Zilpah, his father's wives, and he brought their father a bad report about them. 3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than any of his other sons, because he had been born to him in his old age; and he made a richly ornamented [1] robe for him. 4 When his brothers saw that their father loved him more than any of them, they hated him and could not speak a kind word to him. 5 Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him all the more. 6 He said to them, "Listen to this dream I had: 7 We were binding sheaves of grain out in the field when suddenly my sheaf rose and stood upright, while your sheaves gathered around mine and bowed down to it." 8 His brothers said to him, "Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?" And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said. 9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me." 10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?" 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind. Joseph Sold by His Brothers 12 Now his brothers had gone to graze their father's flocks near Shechem, 13 and Israel said to Joseph, "As you know, your brothers are grazing the flocks near Shechem. Come, I am going to send you to them." "Very well," he replied. 14 So he said to him, "Go and see if all is well with your brothers and with the flocks, and bring word back to me." Then he sent him off from the Valley of Hebron. When Joseph arrived at Shechem, 15 a man found him wandering around in the fields and asked him, "What are you looking for?" 16 He replied, "I'm looking for my brothers. Can you tell me where they are grazing their flocks?" 17 "They have moved on from here," the man answered. "I heard them say, 'Let's go to Dothan.' " So Joseph went after his brothers and found them near Dothan. 18 But they saw him in the distance, and before he reached them, they plotted to kill him. 19 "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. 20 "Come now, let's kill him and throw him into one of these cisterns and say that a ferocious animal devoured him. Then we'll see what comes of his dreams." 21 When Reuben heard this, he tried to rescue him from their hands. "Let's not take his life," he said. 22 "Don't shed any blood. Throw him into this cistern here in the desert, but don't lay a hand on him." Reuben said this to rescue him from them and take him back to his father. 23 So when Joseph came to his brothers, they stripped him of his robe-the richly ornamented robe he was wearing- 24 and they took him and threw him into the cistern. Now the cistern was empty; there was no water in it. 25 As they sat down to eat their meal, they looked up and saw a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from Gilead. Their camels were loaded with spices, balm and myrrh, and they were on their way to take them down to Egypt. 26 Judah said to his brothers, "What will we gain if we kill our brother and cover up his blood? 27 Come, let's sell him to the Ishmaelites and not lay our hands on him; after all, he is our brother, our own flesh and blood." His brothers agreed. 28 So when the Midianite merchants came by, his brothers pulled Joseph up out of the cistern and sold him for twenty shekels [2] of silver to the Ishmaelites, who took him to Egypt. 29 When Reuben returned to the cistern and saw that Joseph was not there, he tore his clothes. 30 He went back to his brothers and said, "The boy isn't there! Where can I turn now?" 31 Then they got Joseph's robe, slaughtered a goat and dipped the robe in the blood. 32 They took the ornamented robe back to their father and said, "We found this. Examine it to see whether it is your son's robe." 33 He recognized it and said, "It is my son's robe! Some ferocious animal has devoured him. Joseph has surely been torn to pieces." 34 Then Jacob tore his clothes, put on sackcloth and mourned for his son many days. 35 All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to the grave [3] to my son." So his father wept for him. 36 Meanwhile, the Midianites [4] sold Joseph in Egypt to Potiphar, one of Pharaoh's officials, the captain of the guard. Genesis 39 Joseph and Potiphar's Wife 1 Now Joseph had been taken down to Egypt. Potiphar, an Egyptian who was one of Pharaoh's officials, the captain of the guard, bought him from the Ishmaelites who had taken him there. 2 The LORD was with Joseph and he prospered, and he lived in the house of his Egyptian master. 3 When his master saw that the LORD was with him and that the LORD gave him success in everything he did, 4 Joseph found favor in his eyes and became his attendant. Potiphar put him in charge of his household, and he entrusted to his care everything he owned. 5 From the time he put him in charge of his household and of all that he owned, the LORD blessed the household of the Egyptian because of Joseph. The blessing of the LORD was on everything Potiphar had, both in the house and in the field. 6 So he left in Joseph's care everything he had; with Joseph in charge, he did not concern himself with anything except the food he ate. Now Joseph was well-built and handsome, 7 and after a while his master's wife took notice of Joseph and said, "Come to bed with me!" 8 But he refused. "With me in charge," he told her, "my master does not concern himself with anything in the house; everything he owns he has entrusted to my care. 9 No one is greater in this house than I am. My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?" 10 And though she spoke to Joseph day after day, he refused to go to bed with her or even be with her. 11 One day he went into the house to attend to his duties, and none of the household servants was inside. 12 She caught him by his cloak and said, "Come to bed with me!" But he left his cloak in her hand and ran out of the house. 13 When she saw that he had left his cloak in her hand and had run out of the house, 14 she called her household servants. "Look," she said to them, "this Hebrew has been brought to us to make sport of us! He came in here to sleep with me, but I screamed. 15 When he heard me scream for help, he left his cloak beside me and ran out of the house." 16 She kept his cloak beside her until his master came home. 17 Then she told him this story: "That Hebrew slave you brought us came to me to make sport of me. 18 But as soon as I screamed for help, he left his cloak beside me and ran out of the house." 19 When his master heard the story his wife told him, saying, "This is how your slave treated me," he burned with anger. 20 Joseph's master took him and put him in prison, the place where the king's prisoners were confined. But while Joseph was there in the prison, 21 the LORD was with him; he showed him kindness and granted him favor in the eyes of the prison warden. 22 So the warden put Joseph in charge of all those held in the prison, and he was made responsible for all that was done there. 23 The warden paid no attention to anything under Joseph's care, because the LORD was with Joseph and gave him success in whatever he did. Genesis 40 The Cupbearer and the Baker 1 Some time later, the cupbearer and the baker of the king of Egypt offended their master, the king of Egypt. 2 Pharaoh was angry with his two officials, the chief cupbearer and the chief baker, 3 and put them in custody in the house of the captain of the guard, in the same prison where Joseph was confined. 4 The captain of the guard assigned them to Joseph, and he attended them. After they had been in custody for some time, 5 each of the two men-the cupbearer and the baker of the king of Egypt, who were being held in prison-had a dream the same night, and each dream had a meaning of its own. 6 When Joseph came to them the next morning, he saw that they were dejected. 7 So he asked Pharaoh's officials who were in custody with him in his master's house, "Why are your faces so sad today?" 8 "We both had dreams," they answered, "but there is no one to interpret them." Then Joseph said to them, "Do not interpretations belong to God? Tell me your dreams." 9 So the chief cupbearer told Joseph his dream. He said to him, "In my dream I saw a vine in front of me, 10 and on the vine were three branches. As soon as it budded, it blossomed, and its clusters ripened into grapes. 11 Pharaoh's cup was in my hand, and I took the grapes, squeezed them into Pharaoh's cup and put the cup in his hand." 12 "This is what it means," Joseph said to him. "The three branches are three days. 13 Within three days Pharaoh will lift up your head and restore you to your position, and you will put Pharaoh's cup in his hand, just as you used to do when you were his cupbearer. 14 But when all goes well with you, remember me and show me kindness; mention me to Pharaoh and get me out of this prison. 15 For I was forcibly carried off from the land of the Hebrews, and even here I have done nothing to deserve being put in a dungeon." 16 When the chief baker saw that Joseph had given a favorable interpretation, he said to Joseph, "I too had a dream: On my head were three baskets of bread. [1] 17 In the top basket were all kinds of baked goods for Pharaoh, but the birds were eating them out of the basket on my head." 18 "This is what it means," Joseph said. "The three baskets are three days. 19 Within three days Pharaoh will lift off your head and hang you on a tree. [2] And the birds will eat away your flesh." 20 Now the third day was Pharaoh's birthday, and he gave a feast for all his officials. He lifted up the heads of the chief cupbearer and the chief baker in the presence of his officials: 21 He restored the chief cupbearer to his position, so that he once again put the cup into Pharaoh's hand, 22 but he hanged [3] the chief baker, just as Joseph had said to them in his interpretation. 23 The chief cupbearer, however, did not remember Joseph; he forgot him. Genesis 41 Pharaoh's Dreams 1 When two full years had passed, Pharaoh had a dream: He was standing by the Nile, 2 when out of the river there came up seven cows, sleek and fat, and they grazed among the reeds. 3 After them, seven other cows, ugly and gaunt, came up out of the Nile and stood beside those on the riverbank. 4 And the cows that were ugly and gaunt ate up the seven sleek, fat cows. Then Pharaoh woke up. 5 He fell asleep again and had a second dream: Seven heads of grain, healthy and good, were growing on a single stalk. 6 After them, seven other heads of grain sprouted-thin and scorched by the east wind. 7 The thin heads of grain swallowed up the seven healthy, full heads. Then Pharaoh woke up; it had been a dream. 8 In the morning his mind was troubled, so he sent for all the magicians and wise men of Egypt. Pharaoh told them his dreams, but no one could interpret them for him. 9 Then the chief cupbearer said to Pharaoh, "Today I am reminded of my shortcomings. 10 Pharaoh was once angry with his servants, and he imprisoned me and the chief baker in the house of the captain of the guard. 11 Each of us had a dream the same night, and each dream had a meaning of its own. 12 Now a young Hebrew was there with us, a servant of the captain of the guard. We told him our dreams, and he interpreted them for us, giving each man the interpretation of his dream. 13 And things turned out exactly as he interpreted them to us: I was restored to my position, and the other man was hanged. [1] " 14 So Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was quickly brought from the dungeon. When he had shaved and changed his clothes, he came before Pharaoh. 15 Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I had a dream, and no one can interpret it. But I have heard it said of you that when you hear a dream you can interpret it." 16 "I cannot do it," Joseph replied to Pharaoh, "but God will give Pharaoh the answer he desires." 17 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "In my dream I was standing on the bank of the Nile, 18 when out of the river there came up seven cows, fat and sleek, and they grazed among the reeds. 19 After them, seven other cows came up-scrawny and very ugly and lean. I had never seen such ugly cows in all the land of Egypt. 20 The lean, ugly cows ate up the seven fat cows that came up first. 21 But even after they ate them, no one could tell that they had done so; they looked just as ugly as before. Then I woke up. 22 "In my dreams I also saw seven heads of grain, full and good, growing on a single stalk. 23 After them, seven other heads sprouted-withered and thin and scorched by the east wind. 24 The thin heads of grain swallowed up the seven good heads. I told this to the magicians, but none could explain it to me." 25 Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, "The dreams of Pharaoh are one and the same. God has revealed to Pharaoh what he is about to do. 26 The seven good cows are seven years, and the seven good heads of grain are seven years; it is one and the same dream. 27 The seven lean, ugly cows that came up afterward are seven years, and so are the seven worthless heads of grain scorched by the east wind: They are seven years of famine. 28 "It is just as I said to Pharaoh: God has shown Pharaoh what he is about to do. 29 Seven years of great abundance are coming throughout the land of Egypt, 30 but seven years of famine will follow them. Then all the abundance in Egypt will be forgotten, and the famine will ravage the land. 31 The abundance in the land will not be remembered, because the famine that follows it will be so severe. 32 The reason the dream was given to Pharaoh in two forms is that the matter has been firmly decided by God, and God will do it soon. 33 "And now let Pharaoh look for a discerning and wise man and put him in charge of the land of Egypt. 34 Let Pharaoh appoint commissioners over the land to take a fifth of the harvest of Egypt during the seven years of abundance. 35 They should collect all the food of these good years that are coming and store up the grain under the authority of Pharaoh, to be kept in the cities for food. 36 This food should be held in reserve for the country, to be used during the seven years of famine that will come upon Egypt, so that the country may not be ruined by the famine." 37 The plan seemed good to Pharaoh and to all his officials. 38 So Pharaoh asked them, "Can we find anyone like this man, one in whom is the spirit of God [2] ?" 39 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Since God has made all this known to you, there is no one so discerning and wise as you. 40 You shall be in charge of my palace, and all my people are to submit to your orders. Only with respect to the throne will I be greater than you." Joseph in Charge of Egypt 41 So Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt." 42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his finger and put it on Joseph's finger. He dressed him in robes of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck. 43 He had him ride in a chariot as his second-in-command, [3] and men shouted before him, "Make way [4] !" Thus he put him in charge of the whole land of Egypt. 44 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I am Pharaoh, but without your word no one will lift hand or foot in all Egypt." 45 Pharaoh gave Joseph the name Zaphenath-Paneah and gave him Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, [5] to be his wife. And Joseph went throughout the land of Egypt. 46 Joseph was thirty years old when he entered the service of Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from Pharaoh's presence and traveled throughout Egypt. 47 During the seven years of abundance the land produced plentifully. 48 Joseph collected all the food produced in those seven years of abundance in Egypt and stored it in the cities. In each city he put the food grown in the fields surrounding it. 49 Joseph stored up huge quantities of grain, like the sand of the sea; it was so much that he stopped keeping records because it was beyond measure. 50 Before the years of famine came, two sons were born to Joseph by Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On. 51 Joseph named his firstborn Manasseh [6] and said, "It is because God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father's household." 52 The second son he named Ephraim [7] and said, "It is because God has made me fruitful in the land of my suffering." 53 The seven years of abundance in Egypt came to an end, 54 and the seven years of famine began, just as Joseph had said. There was famine in all the other lands, but in the whole land of Egypt there was food. 55 When all Egypt began to feel the famine, the people cried to Pharaoh for food. Then Pharaoh told all the Egyptians, "Go to Joseph and do what he tells you." 56 When the famine had spread over the whole country, Joseph opened the storehouses and sold grain to the Egyptians, for the famine was severe throughout Egypt. 57 And all the countries came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, because the famine was severe in all the world. --I'll have to continue on a new post- it won't all fit into one...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Endymion [/i] [B][b]#1[/b] What I don't understand is why some Christians don't agree with other religions. Buddhism, for example, has certain sects that believe in Jesus. (I think) Some Buddhists believe that Jesus was a buddha (a, not "the"). He was at peace with himself and his surroundings, he was very enlightened. Someone said that Wicca promotes God. So what's the big deal here? If a Wiccan believes in God, promotes God, and doesn't try to harm anyone, then why is Wicca so wrong? So what some of you are saying is that even if you believe in the same God and lead a good life, it's completely invalid if you're doing it a different way. By this logic, a Catholic, a Baptist, and a Lutheran can be good friends all of their lives, but only one is getting into heaven because he was the only "full" Christian. It doesn't make sense. I don't accept that. That's just not one of my beliefs.[/B][/QUOTE] OK.. I'm gonna deal with two quotes in one here.. First quote: "By this logic, a Catholic, a Baptist, and a Lutheran can be good friends all of their lives, but only one is getting into heaven because he was the only full Christian" If either one of the 3 people in your examples actually believe that only their denomination will get into heaven, then they have completely misunderstood the gospel. I go to an Anglican church, but if someone asked me what my faith was, I'd say "Christian", not "Anglican" (as some would) because I just don't think it's right to divide the Christian faith.. Let me explain: I see no problem with Catholics, Baptist, Lutherans, Anglicans, Pentecostals, or [i]any[/i] other Christian denomination. I would quite happily go along to a church service led by any of them. However, if an individual believes that his/her denomination is above all the others, then I would have a huge problem with that, and would confront them about it, even if they were the minister of that church, because that's not the point at all. At my anglican church, we have people from all sorts of denominations, so it's less of an anglican church, and more of simply a "Christian Church". OK.. so that's the denomination thing sorted. Now onto the actual point: with regards to the point about some buddhists believing in Jesus, and that Jesus was a buddha- fine. But Jesus was a Jew. I don't actually know what buddhism is all about, so I don't really know whether it's more of a religion or a state of mind, or what, but it says quite clearly in Exodus 20 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below"- It's a [i]completely separate commandment[/i] to the 'you shall have no other Gods' commandment, so essentially, being part of a religion that makes statues of someone who was apparently very enlightened, and then uses it in some form of religious ceremony (I'm hazy in that area though), breaks the second commandment, as it is idolatry. So no, you can't be a Christian and a buddha. I see no problem with being a buddha that believes in Jesus- but you would not be a Christian. A Christian is someone who surrenders their life to Jesus as their saviour. Not someone who believes that Jesus was just very enlightened. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i] [B]That is my point, and what Wiccans have been trying to get across..This throws off what Deus said when he said that you don't have to be like Jesus to be accepted into Heaven. Witches do no harm towards anyone. In-fact since some of you read the link it would be obviouse that is one of our biggest rules. Nor do I understand this thought.... [/B][/QUOTE] You don't have to be like Jesus to be accepted, but you've probably misunderstood the point. Someone who has been good all their life can be accepted into heaven, if he decides to wholeheartedly accept the good news (meaning gospel) of Jesus; A mass murderer can be accepted into heaven, if he decides to wholeheartedly accept the good news of Jesus; A young boy can be accepted into heaven, if he decides to wholeheartedly accept the good news of Jesus; An old man on his death bed can be accepted into heaven, if he decides to wholeheartedly accept the good news of Jesus; A rich man can be accepted into heaven, if he decides to wholeheartedly accept the good news of Jesus A poor man can be accepted into heaven, if he decides to wholeheartedly accept the good news of Jesus [b][i][u]ANYONE[/b][/i][/u] can be accepted into heaven [b]if[/b] he decides to wholeheartedly accept the good news of Jesus The good news in a nutshell goes like this- everyone has sin in them, but because Jesus, the son of God died on the cross with everyone's sin, you can all be accepted, simply by acknowledging that he did this, and giving your life to him. Whether you do this on your first or your last breath, it doesn't matter at all, we will all get the same reward when we enter the heavens. So yes, a witch can get into heaven, even if we believe it is wrong, but you have to actually give your life to (as in "live to serve") Jesus first, not simply to acknowledge that there probably is a God, and he's probably OK with what you're doing. You see, a mass murderer can get into heaven if he accepts the gospel, but if he did, then he would have a duty to not take another life. A young boy can be accepted into heaven, but he would have a duty to live for Jesus for the rest of his life- [i]NOT[/i] perfectly, but in forgiveness. A rich man can be accepted into heaven, but he would have a duty to give money to the poor, who need it. All three of these people may make mistakes, and become led away from God's path for them, but they will be forgiven, and they will accept that they were wrong. According to the bible, witchcraft is wrong. I know that it's hard to accept, I [i]have[/i] read the site, so I know you are peaceful people, but according to the bible, it's wrong. I haven't quite worked out why- presumably because it uses some sort of heavenly power which we are forbidden to use. I know that just pointing to the bible as backup seems kind of shallow, but it's just my belief. Nonetheless, a witch can be accepted into heaven, and they wouldn't need to necessarily give up witchcraft, but if they TRULY gave their life to Jesus (not just going around calling themselves Christians, as so many Christians do also), then they would [i]probably[/i] find that they want to give it up anyway. Two last points and then I'll shut up: 1- There are two kinds of Christians, generally. One is the type that just goes to church every Sunday and believes in God. The other is the type that gives their life to God every day of the week. Regardless of denomination, the second is a "true" christian, whereas the first isn't. 2- Christians have an alternative to witchcraft which works just as well but doesn't involve controlling heavenly power- it's called "[i]PRAYER[/i]", and it [b]does[/b] work just as much as witchcraft. Prayer can heal, it can change people's hearts, it can have all sorts of influences both in the real world and in people's minds- and I not only say that it can work, but it DOES work.. I have witnessed that kind of thing working so many times, it just doesn't shock me anymore..

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystic's Knight [/i] [B]I only thought that a test forum can be usefull in some ways and obviously as you have all proven, there are many alternatives that would work to the same effect. There is only one objection to the way you guys handled the whole consideration. No offense but the way you blatently pass off our suggestions so arrogantly is not accomplishing anything. Really arrogance is best if at all costs avoided. Instead of instantly jumping down our throats for trying to offer alternatives that may/may not be good, you could try to say no without the added kick. We arent offering suggestions to be told off that way. Cut some slack, this is serious but we are all on the same side, I would liek to think. All summed up, you guys are right though, the test forum would do nothing for the productivness of our boards. [/B][/QUOTE] I don't think that they meant it that way, MK.. it's just that the old test forum was pretty annoying.. I mean you'd have a thread where the topic was "test".. and all that it said in the post was "test".. and loads of topics like that.. So they're not really dismissing your idea because of you personally, but more that we've seen a test forum here before, and don't really want to again ;) I think that just wasn't explained very well before ;) edit: by the way, I realise that you probably weren't talking just about your test forum suggestion, but there have probably been a few misunderstandings in other areas too.. that was just one example..

I just want to get one thing clear.. this is a brief outline of a biblical story- but I'm not just looking for a completely Christian approach, OK? ;) Every so often a story just inspires me in some way-- this time it happens to be from the Bible, but generally they tend to come from anywhere.. Anyway.. I'm going to tell you the basic outline, and I want you to tell me which bit you think is most important (universally, not just as a Christian thing).. and I'll include my own opinion. ------- The story is of Joseph- the youngest of 12 brothers. One day, he began having dreams, the point of which was that one day, all 11 of his brothers would bow down to him, and that he would be the highest of all the 12. He went and told his brothers this, and after planning to kill him, they threw him in a pit and left him for dead. Joseph then spent a long time as a slave, and then in prison after being wrongfully accused of doing wrong. In prison, two fellow inmates had dreams, which he interpreted for them.. one of the people would be set free and have his old job back, the other would be killed. The next day these things both happened, and Joseph was forgotten by the man who was set free. Eventually, the King had a dream, which he didn't understand, so the man who was set free told the king about Joseph, and he correctly interpreted the King's dream. This led Joseph into a position of power. One day, the brothers found Joseph again, and, not knowing that he was their brother, bowed down to him, and he was the highest of the twelve, fulfilling his initial dream. ----------- OK.. firstly, there is a whole lot that I missed out there, I just decided to give a short version.. my question is- does this story mean anything in particular to you?.. the bit I find inspiring is the first paragraph.. it says to me "You may be better than some people, and you may be destined to be above them, but if you go and tell them you'll end up in a pit" What do you think (NOT necessarily from a Christian perspective)

Inner beauty is far more important- and practically everyone understands that.. The thing is, it's one thing understanding that it's more important, but it's another thing entirely to live your life actually looking for inner beauty- very few people do that.

Just noticed this... [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i] [B]Do I honestly believe it? Yes I do. Not one person can truly be completely Christian from all the rules set in this religion. (I am not trying to critisize Christianity so please don't take it that way) For to be a true Christian you must be truly like Jesus, and has been proven to be impossible for we are human and we sin.[/B][/QUOTE] "To be a true Christian you must be truly like Jesus" Is a load of crap that people who don't really understand the gospel- but still preach it- say. There's a biblical name for Christians who think that "To be a true Christian you must be truly like Jesus"- they're called [i]false brothers[/i] (I think a false prophet is something different entirely). The order of salvation is like this: 1- You are saved by Jesus 2- You are accepted by God 3- Jesus/God changes you to be more like him Whereas the false brothers CLAIM that the order of salvation is this: 1- You are saved by Jesus 2- You must change to be more like God 3- After the change you are accepted And that is the fundamental difference between Christianity and religion- You don't NEED to do anything to be accepted, but you may find that you want to anyway, AFTER being accepted.. [i]anyone[/i] who claims otherwise is wrong about the Christian faith, whether they're a minister or an ordinary believer. btw, if you want proof of that, it's covered in the book of Galatians somewhere (sorry I can't be more specific- but it's only a short book in the Bible) [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i] [B]Also I wonder what does your scripture describe "Witchcraft" as? I have found that the scriptures have been editing, mainly during the Dark and Renassons. [/B][/QUOTE] Most modern translations are translated directly from the ancient hebrew/greek or whatever it was first written in- [b]not[/b] from an earlier translation

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i] [B]I'm just curiouse did you click on the link that I posted in one of my older posts? Wicca/Witchcraft is not a religion against God. We promote God, you can be Wiccan and still be Christian. True you arn't a complete Wiccan or a complete Christian but you can still be both. Do you think bad of Buddhism? For Wicca can be seen as very similar to Buddhsim. It promotes nature, ones own self, and the community around you. We promote peace and love. We don't believe that there is truly one right God. Sorry I'll stop now...just thought I'd let you know. You may have known this but from how I read your post it seemed you thought Wicca was a satanic religion, which is a very common belief among other religions. [/B][/QUOTE] Yeah, I did click on [i]a[/i] link (not sure which) so I know that Wicca insn't actually against Christianity in any way.. And I don't necessarily believe that you are against God personally.. what I meant in that post that it is [i]my belief[/i] that your actions are against the will of God.. So essentially, I was posting from my personal belief rather than some objective truth (actually I happen to believe that it is an objective truth.. but that's still just my belief), and I should have made that clear.. As for wicca not being against God, and being able to be Christian and Wiccan- You can't just be part Christian and overlook the bit of the bible that says that witchcraft is a sin.. to be a [i]true[/i] Christian at all you need to be a complete Christian, and that doesn't mean always going to church or owning a Bible (though they do help). All it means is that you fully believe [i]everything[/i] that we are told by God.. I'd find scriptural back-up but I don't have a bible handy as I'm at uni.. anyway.. I know you promote peace and love, I read that.. but my point was that I'm opposed to magic, and essentially I [i]believe[/i] magic to be a sin, whether it's meant for good or bad. You choose not to, therefore you don't see any problem with it, and I respect that opinion, but I still believe it to be bad.. that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to, because your opinion is worth just as much as mine, as all christians believe that God gave us choice to follow what we want ;) sorry if I gave the impression that I thought Wicca was some kind of branch of Satanism.. I really didn't mean to imply that. I think I tried to say "I know you're not against us in any way, and I'm not against you in a personal way, but I believe that your practices are wrong".. I [i]didn't[/i] mean that in a "stop doing that because it is wrong" kind of way, I was just stating my opinion on the situation.. and as I said before, your opinion is worth just as much as mine. so yeah.. I hope I cleared that up.. I didn't mean to imply that you are hateful, Satanist, or anything like that.. I just meant to say "according to my belief you're wrong", but that's just personal belief, not necessarily absolute truth, and I understand that ;) [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lalaith Ril [/i] [B]Have you ever thought of this though. As you are scared of something you tend to think about it more and more. Say if you are afraid of heights, you think about it. If you arn't afraid of it you don't think about it. From what I understand God wants us to be scared of him for the simple fact that with fear comes respect, knowledge, and as I said before we'll tend to think of him more.[/B][/QUOTE] whoa.. just saw this and had to edit my post.. God does [i]not[/i] want to be feared.. anyone who is a Christian because they fear God has the absolute wrong idea.. you can't get it any more wrong!! God wants to be loved, and he wants to love us.. I'm not afraid of God, I love God.. OK, people feared him in the Old Testament, but that's because they had the wrong idea too.. the Ten Commandments were pretty much meant as guidelines for everyone to love each other, and God, but they misunderstood it and turned it into fear of God's punishment.. Jesus grew up reading just the Old Testament- and he wasn't afraid of God because he loved him, so that just shows how wrong people took the message.. [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystic's Knight [/i] [B]Some things just arent meant to be know all end all. Everyone has a right to beleive...but no one has the right to think they are 100% right and tell others off and such and judge people for what they beleive..even if their scripture or watever they are reading tells them so. [/B][/QUOTE] Absolutely right. Much as I love to believe that my God is up there, and much as I feel that I [i]know[/i] he's up there, due to lack of a better explanation, I can't go round preaching, telling people that I am definitely, no doubts whatsoever, worshipping the right God.. because really, we won't know until we die, no matter what we believe.. The most important thing I think anyone can acknowledge is that although they do truly believe in this thing- they could be wrong, despite all the healing (both physical and emotional- and I've witnessed both), and the feeling you get when worshipping. To understand that you could be wrong and still believe is a true sign of faith, in my opinion..

Like Cera, I believe in magic and witchcraft.. but being a Christian I don't condone it in any way.. regardless of whether it was meant in the best intentions or not. I wouldn't blatantly lie to someone, steal from someone, or bow down to another God, even if I thought that good could come from it, and in my view, witchcraft is exactly the same.. essentially it's going against what God told us not to do, whether it's used to harm or not.. and it doesn't particularly matter to me whether the particular cult/religion is against Christians or not. Anyway.. saying that, I believe witchcraft is wrong, but I have nothing against witches or people who choose to follow those religions.. in the same way that I have no problem with people who follow any other religion.. It's just my opinion that witchcraft is wrong, not "witches are bad people"

Mods are odd people, I think... the few I've known are generally OK.. but the many I've observed.. just aren't.. I'm talking completely from personal experience here, so it's [i][b]NOT[/i][/b] going to be absolutely true of every single mod.. ever.. but the ones I've seen in groups are just plain destructive.. but as I've said, I get on with a few OK.. but a lot that I've seen are just plain destructive, in a "senseless destructive british lad" kind of way..

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sage [/i] [B]I have spoken. [/B][/QUOTE] And the words may be taken more seriously if you didn't add that at the end.. almost inferring that you're some kind of divine being.. OK.. I'm one of the people who post in the Newbie Forum, with many others.. and I'll start off by admitting that yeah.. even if it was meant to have slightly less strict rules, we go way overboard. We should really stop demanding that James changes his views to suit us, and at the very least say "we're willing to change to suit your rules" and find some kind of half-way point because ultimately, if it weren't for James' work on these boards, they wouldn't be what they are, and we should respect that. I don't think we should be justifying some of the posting that goes on in there, simply because it doesn't count towards that number under your name, which we shouldn't really care about anyway.. If we truly don't care about post counts, we'd post decent stuff regardless of where it was posted and whether the posts actually count.. So yeah.. this argument's not going to go Isay that to anyone who regularly goes to the Newbie Lounge) and start off by apologising for that, [i]then[/i] argue your side.. So yeah, my point is.. we do go way overboard, even for a slightly more relaxed forum, and the problem is that we do it all the time.. At least lets admit that rather than trying to be self-righteous and justified about it..

whoa.. if we had schools starting over here in the UK, any earlier than 8:30, we'd feel sorry for the kids.. our schools don't normally start until around 8:45 at the earliest (though it does depend).. so the kids aren't [i]that[/i] tired in the morning..

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Harlequin [/i] [B][font=gothic][color=crimson]Hell, I'm waiting for the damn series to come out on DVD. And why is everyone calling it Lythathian or whatever? It's Leviathan people, Leviathan![/font][/color] [/b][/QUOTE] Yeah, I know: [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina[/i] [B]Has learned a great deal about leviathans[/b][/QUOTE] In the UK we have up to season 3 on DVD.. I don't think we've even started showing season 4 yet..

My real name is Daniel Christopher Lucking... Daniel has biblical implications in a way- Daniel was one of the Old Testament Prophets Christopher- well, there's [i]Christ[/i] right at the beginning.. Lucking- ... I have no idea.. an odd name, is this one.. so yeah.. two biblical implications out of 3 isn't bad. I don't know the actual meanings of the names though.. it's just not the kind of thing I think about..

Hold that thought.. Time to record a song I like to call "Even in the Desert".. I'll edit this post soon.. ;)

two simple reasons: 1- as gokents said, he's naive and innocent, and expects the best from everyone 2- he's just not a selfish guy. At all.. Ever.. I wouldn't put it down to stupidity at all.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by James [/i] [B][color=royalblue]It's how I imagine you too, Deus. You [i]have[/i] become rather...holy? o_O Er, not that it's a bad thing...it's just a noticeable change. ^_^;;[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] Yeah, I know.. I didn't take it in a bad way (even before you added that).. I just had no idea that the change was quite [i]so[/i] noticable.. I mean.. I knew I'd changed.. it's just that, as far as I'm concerned, I'm just "me".. I always was "me", and I'll always be "me".. it takes someone who's not me to notice how big the changes are ;).. I'm almost flattered that you think I seem Holy.. I was going to just say 'nah, I'm not holy (and I'm not really) but that'd just imply that I want to be told that I am.. so I kind of tried to avoid that unless Iwas going to say something else first, which I did :)

[i][b]Long ago, amid the chaos of the early universe, there was one prosperous race, named the arkali. A small race, only 35 of them ever existed. No details are known of how they came to be, but the story of their end has been passed down the generations to a select few: "One day, long ago, the peaceful race of the Arkali became under threat by a truly powerful force. They decided that their only chance to preserve their life's work and accumulated knowledge was to merge into 7 powerful beings to combat the force. Each of the 7 beings was a merging of 5 Arkali, one each of their 5 sub-classes- Leader, Warrior, Scholar, Mage and Priest. The 7 beings were able to vanquish the evil force looming over their land, though in the merging process their bodies had to be discarded, only 7 spirits remained. Though successful in defending their land, the arkali themselves were no more." The spirits travel the universe, inhabiting the bodies of beings from the day they are born, and leave the bodies when the hosts die. They provide these beings with unimaginable power, in exchange for the chance to experience life again. But this did not last long. Many of the hosts along the generations used the spirits' power for evil, consumed by their own greed. After a few generations had passed, the evil minds of the hosts had their effect on the spirits, and they too became consumed by dark emotions. Instead of simply allowing the hosts to use their powers, they struggled to dominate the hosts' bodies and minds. Many great wars were caused by the spirits, barely shells of their original selves, with no capacity for rational thought. A few hundred years ago, the generation of 'arkali warriors' at the time realised their power, and set up an institute to try to gain control over their powers. It was found that by resisting the arkali spirits' attempts to gain control, and by using their powers when they were subdued (not in control), after a while the host had almost complete control over the spirit. The arkali warriors, later known as 'the seven emperors' dominated a large part of the galaxy with their seemingly endless powers, and the arkali empire was formed. This empire stood for only 70 years. When news reached all of the kingdoms that the last emperor had died of old age, a massive revolt started, as rebel factions on every planet launched massive attacks against their oppressors, no longer fearing the powerful emperors. Now the arkali empire is nearly completely forgotten, and after 400 years, the worlds that were dominated by it are back to the way they once were. The institute set up by the seven emperors still exists somewhere, concealed in the darker parts of the galaxy. Today, mystics from all around claim to feel a dark, powerful force coming. Those who know the history of the arkali believe it to be the same dark force that threatened the arkali long ago, and hope that somehow all 7 of the current generation of arkali warriors can be united to combat this great force again, as they know that no one else can. Unknown to everyone, the seven spirits already inhabit new hosts, some dormant, while others have already awoke and are causing havoc in their hosts' minds.. The seven spirits and hosts are as follows:[/i][/b] [b]The Spirit [i]Light Bringer[/i] in the host [i]Belteshazzar[/i] (myself)[/b] [i]The Spirit known as Light Bringer is the most powerful and aggressive arkali spirit, inhabiting a host on the planet Ghilloria. As a result, it's host is in a constant struggle for sanity, always trying to stop the spirit from taking control. He does not fully understand what is happeneing to him, and finds it hard to keep friends for a long time because of it.[/i] [b]The Spirit [i]Firestorm[/i] in the Host [i]Kain[/i] (Yoda)[/b] [i]The spirit named Fire Storm inhabits a mercinary, known for reliability and coldness, on the planet Valandra. It is said that something terrible must have happened to the family of Fire Storm's host long ago, as he/she has no recollection of his/her past, and has lost the ability to care for others. In reality, this happened ten years ago, when Fire Storm tried to take control it's host, and had all but succeeded. It's last action before the host drove Fire Storm out of his/her mind was to damage his'her mind in any way it could.[/i] [b]The Spirit [i]Shadow Wraith[/i] in the host [i]Ykonis[/i] (Ykonis)[/b] [i]The Spirit named Shadow Wraith inhabits a commander of the military on the planet Usterndur, near the centre of the galaxy. Shadow Wraith's host never shows his/her (It doesn't matter to me) true power, nor identity, having learned from the example of the seven emperors. Only those that he/she is about to eliminate get to know this.[/i] [b]The Spirit [i]Wind Talon[/i] in the host [i]Sheena Retay[/i] (Bremma)[/b] [i]The Spirit named Wind Talon inhabits a host on the planet Lianh which, at the age of 7, in a class, she was teased to the point where her Arkali spirit took over and killed half of the school. From then on, she has been an outcast and feared by many. She knows very little of her powers and how they work, but she would die to findout.[/i] [b]The Spirit [i]Water Harbinger[/i] in the Host [i]Seren Hanai[/i] (Sere Tuscumbia)[/b] [i]The Spirit named Water Harbinger inhabits a host on the planet Kharydin with no memory of an early childhood, but fragments occasionally come through in a dream, or vision. Although working on a college degree, she works part-time at a hospital. She finds that in times of serenity (which she is named after), she can heal certain types of sicknesses. Has no knowledge of what's being harboured inside her.[/i] [b]The Spirit [i]Terra[/i] in the host [i]Nevri Deloras[/i] (DeathKnight)[/b] [i]The Spirit named Terra inhabits a host born to an upper middleclass family on the planet Terra I, always adventourus from Childhood. As a child, she loved to see how far she could climb up that hill- Or how deep she could go in the lake, much to the dismay of her parents. As she got older, and entered her teenage years, she got even more adventourus, hiking the steepest mountains. Unfortunately, last year her parents past away and she was left with everything. Right now, she is a bouncer at a nightclub, the shortest bouncer there. It is not known whether the spirit is awake or not.[/i] [b]The Spirit [i]Seventh Child[/i] in the Host [i]Alucia[/i] (Sara)[/b] [i]The Spirit named Seventh Child inhabits a host who Lives with some friends in a college situation on the planet Terra II. The spirit is not known to have awakened yet.[/i] (Hope you guys don't mind, I essentially copied the bios you put in the sign up, into that last bit, and most of my original post in the first bit.. no original material so far ;)) (More people can join if you want, but the spirits are taken) _____________________________ [i]The ground was cold and wet, and the sound of rain, smashing the floor, could be heard all around.. Belteshazzar woke and stood up in a daze, almost falling over from imbalance, and he looked around to see nothing but smoking, burnt buildings, the fires now gradually lessening due to the rain. He couldn't remember how he got here, what he did, or why he was the only survivor.. and it wasn't the first time He had been through similar experiences in the past, in different places. Somehow he always seemed to survive a huge tragedy of sorts, which he had no actual memory of. He always had a headache, too.. The kind he had now..[/i] Belteshazzar: not again.. [i]He fell down onto his knees, weak, trembling from whatever had just happened. He looked to his left, and saw an unusually shaped sword there. He then reached out to pick it up, when a young man, almost like an angel, appeared ahead[/i] young man: Are you ready for that yet? Belteshazzar: *looks blankly* young man: That sword is the Talon Blade.. there are stories that it was forged by the seven emperors and usedby the most powerful one. Belteshazzar: Are you saying *cringes from headache*... Are you saying this sword has power? young man: No.. the sword has no power of it's own.. it is merely a symbol of it. Belteshazzar: So, why do you ask 'Are you ready for that yet?' [i]The young man grinned and then disappeared. Belteshazzar picked up the sword, and just held it for a minute. He felt that he had seen the weapon some time before, as if he had viewed it's creation. He didn't understand where this feeling came from, as the sword was evidently older than him. He sheathed the sword in it's sheath, which was next to the sword itself.. and then he left the area...[/i]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Shaun [/i] [B]I agree. Playing and singing is tough. I sing in a Christian group, and I still would rather not do both. :) [/B][/QUOTE] Ah.. yeah... you're shaun from Nerdsy's ex-realm, yes?.. I thought so for a while, but just didn't say anything.. One note: when I say 'sing and play', I actually mean "sing and play a chord on each beat with the sustain pedal down".. on a keyboard.. I haven't got the hang of singing while playing properly..

In the morning I just pretty much switch off.. if I have a lecture, and the lecturer has already made notes for us.. good, I can just amuse myself for a few hours in my own little world.. If not, I still do that, and then look up what the lecture was about when I get home.. In short, in the morning, it all goes in, then goes straight out, as far as highly intelligent biochemical concepts are concerned.. But I've never really thought about a link between my exam score and the time of theexam, so I couldn't tell you...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystic's Knight [/i] [B]Great, Deus you have just stepped your self up for a visual implosion of your electronical being. Without looking at your picture, I would almost instantly vision you as a an angel/guy. I really can feel an added sense of holiness with you present. I think it is because you beleive so strongly on the biblical side of thigs, and express those beleifs without forcing them onto other people in a preachfull manner. Seriously though, your the first guy/gal to do that, and frankly I'm impressed. [/B][/QUOTE] Wow.. I had no idea.. I mean, I really do try to not force anything down anyone's throats, cos I kind of understand how it feels to be in that situation.. but I had no idea that it had that kind of impact (I'm looking from the inside out here). I wouldn't say I'm the first to do it, though.. it's just that for a lot of people it can be hard to be blatantly open without being so in a preachy sort of way, as you probably know.. there's pretty much a stereotype of "Thou Shalt Not Do That" Christians.. All I can say is I've learned from people at a church where we're very much towards freedom of beliefs for non-Christians.. If not I probably wouldn't even be a Christian today.. So I kind of owe it to them..

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mystic's Knight [/i] [B]No problems James. I will stop the cursing. But the way I write posts never seems to be good enough for you. Either you cannot understand what I am saying...Or I'm being too sloppy for you. What will be? Because I am not trying to peeve anyone off, but when an admin tells me that I should stop trying to type with proper english, and I follow instructions only to be, in kind words "WTF YOU DOING?", I get a little frustrated. And as you wish but please dont complain if you cant comprehend me...I'm trying. Ok, back to on topic stuff; James, I remember your lil yellow avatar..I thought you were a lil bouncy yellow ball. Raiha, I always thought you were a crazy guy. That is until I saw your picture on the picture forum... More to come when I decide to wake up hehe. AGain sorry for the poor post quality. [/B][/QUOTE] I think James was referring more to this: [quote]naw....you i always thought u were mr. whatshis face... Rogers? ..i dont know..never seen it lol..all in all...i thought u were some old dude...sure i knew otherwise..[/quote] which I didn't understand at first either.. I'm not trying to complain about you personally MK, you're a pretty sound guy.. But I can kind of see where James was coming from with that post.. As I said.. you're a sound guy, and I don't generally see any problem with your posts normally ;) so don't think I'm trying to say you're a terrible poster :) .

Same here (Same as Semjaza, that is) I can generally hold 70.. though I think the official amount is meant to be 50..

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mnemolth [/i] [B]Generally on this Board I feel somewhat frustrated. That's not so surprising since most of you are way [i]way[/i] out of my age group, and your experiences are consequently limited. But hey...you know what they say...kids will often surprise you...;) [/B][/QUOTE] .... what exactly [i]is[/i] your age group? Seriously, I don't know.. Generally, I think I get on with most people OK here.. Occasionally I can really disagree with someone and it almost sounds as if I'm saying "I HATE YOU!!!!", but generallyit's not meant that way.. the few people that actually manage to talk to me on AIM/MSN (Not that I ignore lots of people, I'm just not on when lots of people are), tend to find me alright and mildly amusing.. and I have a wail of a time on messengers with people I talk to a lot, but I can also be serious (not in a 'strict' way, just in a 'OK.. I'll not make any jokes' way) when the situation dictates it.. So yeah.. I dunno about otakuboards generally, but I think I get on well with most people, and if I have a personal disagreement with something (unless we're actually debating it in the thread) I'll usually PM the person rather than lead the thread way off topic and cause a fight..

OK... by request of Zidane over AIM, I'm actually going to play the steotypical Sergeant guy from DTP.. so I'm posting a new description: Name: Charles Brenten Hometown: Neo-Tokyo Age: 37 (unsure exact, so I guessed) Occupation: T.A.N.T.O Sergeant/ Ex Tank Police Weapons: Tank (duh) and Pistol/Grenades Bio/Personality: "Brenten is the leader of the Tank Police, and likes to keep a tough, macho cop image. Beneath the harsh exterior, Britain is a bit of a softie, and prefers riding around the streets in his tank to actually solving any crimes. Of course, he wouldn't let anyone else know that, and tries to live up to his image as a hard taskmaster." Charles Brenten: [img]http://ad.usa-anime.net/archive/dominion/VAP-domc3.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lady Asphyxia [/i] [B][color=darkred]hehe...Yes. Of course. I am a vampire. How did you guess? You, I think dark hair. Or brown of some kind. Am I anywhere close?[/color] [/B][/QUOTE] Spot on... it's a fairly light brown I think, but brown nontheless..